Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans

Subject: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 06:58 AM

looking for lyrics and other info on a bluesy song about how monkeys don't abandon their wives and children, shoot their fellow monkeys,etc

The singer doesn't believe humans are descended from monkeys.
No mention is made of apes or chimps, who are getting bad press lately as some groups of chimpanzees have been observed hunting and killing monkeys and even infant chimps.

(I heard the song on the radio, I think on Eamonn Friel's programme on Radio Foyle/Radio Ulster so if you have time, technology and are curious you might try this week's Radio Ulster/Foyle archives via www.bbc.co.uk
One of Eamonn's programmes is called "Friel's Fancy" )

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 05:00 AM

on second thought, I may have heard this on John Kelly's show on RTÉ (Irish radio)

doesn't anyone using Mudcat know it?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: PoppaGator
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 01:35 PM

"The Monkey Speaks His Mind" was written and recorded by Dave Bartholomew back in the '50s. Dave is best-known as Fats Domino's longtime bandleader.

The song was recently re-recorded by Dr. John (Mac Rebbenack)on his latest CD, "New Orleans: Dis, Dat and D'other." I do not know of any other version that might have been recorded between those two. The lyrics on the two recordings are identical, or nearly so, but the musical tracks over which they are half-sung/half-spoken is quite different on the two versions.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE MONKEY (from Dave Bartholomew)
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 01:50 PM

Is this it?

I said Yeah
Monkey

now three little monkeys sat on a coconut tree
discussing things has they are said to be
said one to the other, now listen you two
there is a certain rumour that cant be true
that man descended from our noble race
the funny idea is a big disgrace
no monkey ever deserted his wife
nor her baby and ruin her life

I said yeah... Monkey speaks his mind

and another thing you will never see
a monkey build a fence around a coconut tree
and let all the coconuts go to waist
forbidding all other monkeys to come and taste
now if i build a fence around this tree
starvation will cause you to steal from me

I said Yea... the monkey speaks his mind

here is another thing a monkey wont do
go out at night and get on a stew
or use a gun a club or a knife
to take another monkey's life

Yes man descended the worthless bum
but my god brothers from us he did not come

Yeah... The monkey speaks his mind

http://www.getlyrics.com/lyrics.php/Mano+Negra/SHOW+LYRICS/The+Monkey

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: PoppaGator
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 03:21 PM

Yeah, Sorcha, that's the very song I was referring to.

Good job finding those lyrics! If (as I suspect) you found the lyrics but have not heard the song performed, I hope you get a chance to hear it someday. As I mentioned above, it's more "spoken" than "sung," both in Dave B's original and Dr. John's remake, and the mock-serious declamatory style adds to the humor.

The old-New-Orleans-favorite original gets occasional airplay on WWOZ, and since the recent release of the new Dr. John album, both the new and old versions have been playing fairly frequently. In the last month, I've probably heard this song on my car radio, during my 20-minutes-each-way deaily commute, at least a half-dozen times.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 28 Oct 04 - 06:05 AM

yes, Sorcha, thanks
and Poppagator for the title (which enabled an effective web search) and info

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: PoppaGator
Date: 28 Oct 04 - 08:26 PM

"This just in!"

I just heard the new Dr. John recording of "Monkey" on the radio, after which the DJ informed us listeners that Dave Bartholomew, the songwriter and original recording artist, plays trumpet on the track.

The new recording has a pronouncedly modern jazz-funk flavor, and the trumpet is prominently featured as lead instrument, so I had assumed that I had been listening to Mac's usual trumpeter, the 50-ish Charley Miller, or perhaps some younger player. Quite a pleasant surprise to learn that the gig went to the still-great Dave Bartholomew, who must be well up into his 80s by now.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: GUEST,Eric Mischel
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 10:17 AM

I thought you guys would get a kick out of the new Elvis Costello song Monkey to Man...he references Mr. Bartholomew in the song. Here is a link to the video. http://www.elviscostello.com/video.asp

Enjoy!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: Nerd
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 02:27 PM

Of course, such spoken-word pieces about "Monkey" are a mainstay of African-American Folklore, like "Signifyin' Monkey" and "Poolshootin' Monkey," etc. It seems Dave B was applying this old trope of black folklore to a new situation!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: PoppaGator
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 03:18 PM

Oh, there's no doubt Mr. Bartholomew was working in a well-estabished African-American folk tradition when he recorded this number back in the 1950s. Wasn't really updating anything to any "new situation," either, just addressing the worst of human nature.

Challenging the idea of evolution (by denying that mankind could possibly be "descended from us") is a modern concept, I suppose, but not all that new -- even a half-century ago.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: GUEST,Monkey see monkey do
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 07:31 AM

Eric, I can't watch/listen to videos (access denied on public computer); perhaps you can give us Costello's lyrics here?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: Nerd
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 12:12 PM

Yes, that's all I meant PoppaG. I was referring to the famous 1925 "Monkey Trial" as a probable influence; not quite "new" in the 1950s as you say, but relatively new. I have read in a few places that Bartholomew did not "write" this song, but adapted it from a poem which might well have been a "toast" of the "Signifyin' Monkey" variety. But I don't know if this claim is true. If so, the toast may have arisen in response to the monkey trial and been around in tradition for 25 years when Bartholomew adapted it.

In the black tradition, of course, the African-American is identified with "Monkey," while the other animals (usually Lion and Elephant) represent whites. Thus, the claim that monkey is morally superior to man would also be recognized by many black folks as a subtextual claim that blacks are superior to whites. Since this would not be obvious to most white people, the song maintained its crossover appeal.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 02:15 PM

actually WIllie Dixon recorded it with the Big Three Trio sometime between 1947-52 as 'Signifying Monkey', I think sometime in 1947, but they broke up in '52 after recording it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: Nerd
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 02:19 PM

Bill,

are you sure Willie Dixon's lyrics were the same ones? Usually "Signifyin' Monkey" is a different set of words, but I don't think I've heard the Dixon set.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 02:28 PM

yeah, 'The Monkey Speaks his Mind...' same lyrics

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: Nerd
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 02:32 PM

Cool! Thanks, Bill!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 02:36 PM

you can listen to it here, it's a song he wrote, so Dave Bartholomew is not the original

http://songs.streamwaves.com/s/sig/signifyingmonkeypoetoftheblues/index.html

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 02:38 PM

Willie Dixon wrote poetry as a young man, many poems he later turned into songs, this is one of them.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: PoppaGator
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 02:53 PM

I stand corrected on Batholomew's authorship. I *may* have simply assumed as much, but I'd like to believe I was told as much by some source I believed...

It's certainly not hard to believe that Willie Dixon is responsible for this, as he is for so many other classics -- what a guy!

Subject: Lyr Add: BONOBO WANABEE (Holly Tannen)
From: Barbara
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 03:04 PM

There's also this one, written by Holly Tannen a year ago, that addresses another facet of humane monkey behavior. This one is about the Bonobos, a recent split from chimpanzee who are known for all the things they do to deal with stress that keep them from even being shown on the discovery channel. They just about exclusively use sexuality instead of agression when things get tense.
Blessings,
Barbara

WANT TO BE A BONOBO
(Holly Tannen c 2003)

Oh, I want to be a Bonobo,
A Bonobo life for me
I want to be a Bonobo,
I'm a Bonobo wannabe.

We hang around, around the trees,
And sit on one another's knees,
And search for nits and ticks and fleas,
Ah, it's a Bonobo life for me

Oh, I want to be a Bonobo,
A Bonobo life for me
A bona fide Bonobo
I'm a Bonobo wannabe.

We nest up in the trees at night
And fondle everything in sight
We hardly ever have to fight
It's the Bonobo life for me.

Oh, I want to be a Bonobo,
A Bonobo life for me
A born-again Bonobo,
I'm a Bonobo wannabe.

You can harangue an orangutang
You can moon a baboon
But I want to be a Bonobo
And croon a Bonobo tune.

Dum da dum da duddle la dum
Duddle la duddle la dum
(Same as last two lines) (as you will)

Oh, come over here mama Bonobo
Sit on your Daddy's knee
Oh, do you want to Bonobo
Bonobo a bit with me

And if we do Bonobo
I will not charge a fee
I'll do it pro Bonobo
I'm a Bonobo wannabe.

Oh, I want to be a Bonobo,
A Bonobo life for me
I want to be a Bonobo,
I'm a Bonobo wannabe.

You can thrill a gorilla
Make free with a chimpanzee
But I want to be a Bonobo,
It's the Bonobo life for me.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 03:12 PM

so, note to Joe Offer or whoever: If and when the lyrics get harvested for DT it should be "Signifying Monkey" by Willie Dixon, not the same as the 'Signifyin' Monkey' already in the database, Not by Dave Bartholomew who called it "Monkey' when he recorded it. If there are any variations between the lyrics quoted above and Willie's own lyrics I'll correct them here when I get around to it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 02:23 AM

Hi, Bill - I take it that you mean the lyrics Sorcha posted are by Willie Dixon. Is the transcription good, or do you have corrections? I pasted a copy of your message in with the lyrics, so the two don't get separated.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: PoppaGator
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 01:48 PM

Hey, I DON'T stand corrected, after all!

I just checked out the link to Willie Dixon's "Signifying Monkey." While I didn't spend 99 cents to hear the whole song (I *am* at work, after all, not at home), the little bit I heard -- the introductory verse and the first line of the body of the song (both addressing the lion, king of the jungle), the tune, the tempo -- are *nothing* like Dave Batholomew's song.

I couldn't find lyrics on the web, but found this summary of Dixon's song (the first he ever wrote, by the way):

The anthropomorphic "Signifying Monkey" echoes an African folktale. The trickster monkey tells the lion that the elephant has been insulting the great cat. When the lion limps back home after losing the ensuing battle, the monkey laughs so hard that he falls out of his tree and into the lion's clutches. Again he fools the lion into letting him go free . . . to whatever fate the narrator can imagine. (There are as many versions of these toasts as there are narrators.) The badass "Partytime Monkey" and the hustling "Poolshooting Monkey" are distant descendants of their quick-witted cousin.

NOTHING AT ALL like Bartholomew's "The Monkey Speaks His Mind," song, whose complete lyrics are posted above!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: Nerd
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 02:18 PM

Yes, Poppag, that is the typical Signifyin' Monkey. If that's what Willie Dixon recorded, he certainly did not "write" it. It's a traditional piece of African-American oral poetry. However, he would have had to clean it up, since in the oral form there's a lot of swear words which could not be released on a record back then, and of course anyone could copyright folklore back then.

I'm assuming, though, that Bill actually has the Willie Dixon recording and was speaking as an "earwitness" authority. Is this the case, Bill? If so, it would appear Poppag's website is wrong. If not, is there anyone with access to Wille Dixon's record who could confirm this for us?

By the way, there is a CD of oral versions of many of these toasts on Rounder Records. It's entitled "Get Your Ass in the Water and Swim Like Me," referencing another famous "toast," the one about Shine, the only black man on the Titanic.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 02:44 PM

I DO have the Dixon recording, and was planning to dig it out and write down the lyrics to compare with the above, but I may be wrong about this one if Poppagator has already listened to it. I am remembering the song as posted above, and remembering Dixon's recording, and I could very well have conflated the two in my addle-pated, tired old brain. If so, my apologies to all, especially Poppagator and Nerd and Joe Offer for confusing things (note to Joe: hit the undo button! in fact why not just delete all my posts and the responses and leave it at that!). I will still dig out the lyrics of Willie's recording and post them here when time allows. I was going to listen first and post later, but rushed to post what used to be my reliable memories.

feeling older & stupider than usual,
sorry

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 12:27 PM

Gee, Bill, *I'm* sorry --- just a little bit -- for being so agumentative. I felt a little bad about arguing back, just because I found it difficult not to make a simple difference about facts seem like a personal "attack."

Especially when I thought of a hopefully-witty but potentially-offensive retort, for which I'm apologizing in advance:

Hey, don't worry about it -- to some folks, all those monkeys look (and sound) alike, anyway!

By the way, now I've gotten curious about 'The badass "Partytime Monkey" and the hustling "Poolshooting Monkey",' too...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: Nerd
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 01:56 PM

That recording I mentioned, "get your ass in the water..." has versions of both, PG.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: GUEST,Guest, John Chappell
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 10:40 PM

I'm a history professor in St. Louis, USA and found this discussion fascinating as I was doing some research on Dave Bartholomew. He did a terrific version of the song with the Dirty Dozen Brass Band on that group's 1990 CD "The New Orleans Album."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 10:35 PM

euthanasia?

Subject: Lyr Add: MONKEY TO MAN (Elvis Costello)
From: GUEST,Eric Mischel
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 02:50 PM

Here are Elvis' lyrics to his song Monkey to Man:

Monkey To Man

A long time ago, our point of view
Was broadcast by Mr. Bartholomew
Now the world is full of sorrow and pain
It's time for us to speak up again

You're slack and sorry
Such an arrogant brood
The only purpose you serve is to bring us our food
We sit here staring at your pomp and pout
Outside the bars we use for keeping you out

You've taken everything that you wanted
Broke it up and plundered it and hunted
Ever since we said it
You went and took the credit
It's been headed this way since the world began
When a vicious creature took the jump from Monkey to Man

Every time that man struggles and fails
He makes up some kind of fairytales
After all of the misery that he has caused
He denies he's descended from the dinosaurs

Points up to heaven with cathedral spires
All the time indulging in his base desires
Ever since we said it
He went and took the credit
It's been headed this way since the world began
When a vicious creature took the jump from Monkey to Man

Big and useless as he has become
With his crying statues and his flying bomb
Goes 'round acting like the chosen one
Excuse us if we treat him like our idiot cousin

He hangs up flowers and bells and rhymes
Hoping to hell that someone's forgiven his crimes
Fills the air with his pride and his praise
He's big disgrace to our beastly ways

In the fashionable nightclubs and finer precincts
Man uses words to dress up his vile instincts
Ever since we said it
He went and took the credit
It's been headed this way since the world began
When a vicious creature took the jump from Monkey to Man

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:32 PM

Did Elvis *write* that, or just record it?

Whoever the author might be, it's pretty cool. AND, he gives credit where credit is due, to Mister Bartholomew. I've never heard it, nor even heard *of* it. Nice.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: Nerd
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:34 PM

It's a new song. This is Elvis Costello, not Presley!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:14 PM

Gee, somebody told me recently that "there's only one Elvis, and his name is Costello," . . . but I forgot!

I even, momentarily, forgot that there were two.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: Nerd
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:26 AM

Yes, I know what you mean. If someone just says Elvis, to me it means Presley too!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 09:03 AM

I have listed to several sound samples of SIGNIFYING MONKEY by Willie Dixon at allmusic, and they are definitely NOT the same as Bartholomew's THE MONKEY.

Furthermore, while the traditional SIGNIFYING MONKEY was a recitation, not a song, Willie Dixon's version is definitely a song. Evidently he wrote a tune to go with the traditional words, and as such, he is justified in claiming copyright to the tune. Maybe he altered the words as well.

Here's what I transcribed from the sound samples. (I don't know whether I have the two sections in the right order):

...Said, now, big boy, it's you or me
The elephant looks from the corner of his eyes
Better find someone to fight your side
The lion jumps up and makes a fancy pass
But the elephant knocks him over in the grass
They fought all night and they fought all day
Don't know how the lion, well, he got away.
He come back to the jungle more dead than alive
And that's when the monkey really started his jive
You call yourself the jungle king
You call yourself the jungle king
You call yourself the jungle king
I found out you ain't a doggone thing....

...Well, he waked up his tempo (?) when he jumpin' up an' down
And his foot missed a limb and his head hit the ground
Like a bolt of lightnin' and a streak of heat
The lion was on him with all four feet
But the monkey looks up from the corner of his eyes
Says, now, mister lion, I apologize
The monkey on his back studies up a scheme
He's tryin' to trick that jungle king....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 07:22 AM

I got more response than I bargained for and I'm glad to learn of these other monkey songs too. thanks everyone!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: monkeys more humane than humans
From: GUEST,Nerd
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 12:19 AM

Those words are essentially traditional, though as you say he may have altered them. For one thing, there are often mild swear words like "ass" in the recitation, and sometimes the adjective "muthafuckin'" is inserted liberally as well, and obviously Dixon has none of that. But it's clearly what any folklorist would call a version of the traditional poem "The Signifying Monkey." In copyright terms, it would be fine for him to pursue action against anyone who used the tune, but if someone recorded the words he wouldn't win a lawsuit, because neither the idea nor most of the specific phrasing was his.