BS: possibly moving to Canada

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 03:51 PM

We live in the Twin Cities, and our 20 year old has a lot of friends in both Toronto and Winnipeg, who regularly make the rounds to one another's domiciles (driving for hours on end to get to punk gigs, mostly, then get int he car and drive and drive and drive....)

Anyway, we often have a house full of Canadian kids staying with us, and our kid has been similarly "adopted" by a few Canadian families too.

From the kids' perspective: ours says a move to Canada--Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver--would be cool. Canadian kids say, best to get your higher education in Canada (better value there), then move to the States for work, wages being higher here, and culturally they seem to like the US cities they have visited. They all tend to love the Twin Cities, but we are one of the few remaining bastions of progressivism in the US, so I think they truly feel more "at home" here.

I love a lot of parts of Canada. I probably would only consider a move to the Vancouver area though, I do like the eastern areas around the US/Can border in the Toronto region. I'd consider country living near Toronto, so I could get to civilization Canadian style!

But my pardner an'me, along with the kids, are leaning more towards either moving back east in the US or Canada, or to Europe. But no one seems to be on the same page as me with Tunisia! The hell with all of them!

Between me and the pardner, he loves PA & North Carolina, I love Boston and Maine. We do have some negotiating to do.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 03:51 PM

Metosin - I never claimed to understand Canada nor did I say that a Canadian draft was being considered. My point is that you cannot be CERTAIN that a draft will never occur and to leave one country for only that reason is a gamble, even if it is a relatively save one. PDC's note was to the point, you should become a citizen of one country just because you reject your own. You go because you will benefit from the life afforded you and will share in that nations goals.

Janie - I did read your post, but apparently you missed my point. I understand that your child is 10, but you are making lifestyle decisions now that will affect his life. Granted, we do that everyday when we raise a child. You are taking him out of a country and placing him in a new life because of your disagreement with U.S. policy. Not that I support the policy either, but what I am trying to say is that I hope you weigh all the opportunities and possibliites before making such a decision.   Personally, if my son were 18 and about to be drafted into an unjust war I would do everything I could to get him out of the service or the country.    However, I think the risk of something that may or may not happen is not worth taking him from a lifestyle and opportunites that he now enjoys as a citizen of the United States.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Charmion
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 03:28 PM

Um, SRS is more right than wrong, at least as far in his/her comments about Canada. Although we Canadians have not had an effective conscription program since 1945, we have problems and social divisions every bit as distressing as you have south of the 49th parallel. Every time Edmund and I cross the border your way we are struck anew with the significant differences, and aware that although we enjoy visiting we would have a tough adjustment if we had to stay.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Metchosin
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 03:26 PM

Ebbie, you are correct there. BC politics stink on many levels.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Metchosin
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 03:22 PM

Ron, given the current views here, I would consider a draft in Canada about as likely as an American military invasion of this country. Could happen, both have happened before, but to think a draft here, as likely as a draft in the US, shows little understanding of the politics of the people Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 03:20 PM

"How about we start organizing a secessionist movement, and all the Northeast, Upper Midwest and West Coast blue states join with Canada, and leave the southerners and westerners behind to watch NASCAR, and live according to their Good White Male God Fearing Values?" Guest/2:18

That's more along the lines that I have been thinking. I wish. Or just heading into the Alaska bush and removing myself from any knowledge of or complicity in what the blasted country does for the next few years.

Canada does indeed have its own problems. One of the drawbacks that I am aware of is that Canada is not yet as far along as the US is about many environmental issues. I'm talking specifically about farmed salmon - it ain't healthy, folks- and it's having a bad impact on the wild stock - and about sewage treatment in many communities, including some large ones.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: annamill
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 03:09 PM

You can say that again! I was thinking the same thing.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 03:06 PM

We are oppressed AND in danger at this moment!

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: GUEST,peedeecee
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 02:59 PM

It's not that easy to come to Canada, as the website below indicates. Also, I'm not sure that being fed up with your own country is a good reason to choose Canada -- we prefer those who want what Canada has to offer, rather than simply rejecting their own country. Many Americans who are fed up with the US come here because it is so much like the US. Please come here for our differences, not similarities. Would the woman with a draft-age son want to come here if it weren't for her son?

We welcome those who come from countries where they are oppressed or in danger.

Not that easy.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 02:57 PM

Mooh said it well about PEI though.... my home province :-) New Brunswick (where I am now) is also extremely scenic, with good opportunities in the service sector. Tons of good Irish- and French-heritaged folk music in the area too...

Best o'luck in wherever you lay your hat!
Brian

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Devilmaster
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 02:54 PM

SRS - i hope your post was a joke. Cause if it wasn't, that's sad.

Anyways, for those who may or may not be interested, there is a website to answer some of your questions...

http://canadainternational.gc.ca/

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Janie
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 02:45 PM

Ron,

Read my post more carefully. When he is old enough to choose, he can choose, but one must live in a country a certain number of years before citizenship can be applied for. Would I let him make his own choices about what he will do at 18 now, at age 10? Heck no!

There are never any guarantees, but the history of both Canada and New Zealand indicate that neither country is as apt to be as trigger happy as is the USA, and to take moral issues much more readily and seriously into consideration in their decisions regarding involvement in military conflict.

Alice,

Sorry to have hijacked your thread.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: annamill
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 02:37 PM

How about Mexico?.. Always warm, great surfing, cheap.. you could always commute to San Diego and make good money. You could live like a rich person. Could you keep your citizenship? It's an idea. Can some smart person point out negatives for me please? Seriously.

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Alice
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 02:26 PM

Hi, Mick,

Ryan is graduating from high school June '05 and plans to go to college in Washington state, either Pullman or at Whitman in Walla Walla.
Since contemplating what I will do after Ryan leaves home next year, which I have been doing for about 5 years, I've considered the climate and culture of a new place in order to leave the long Montana winters I've lived in my whole life. I'll be 53 in December, and the older I get, the less I like shoveling deep snow in below zero darkness. Last winter I fell on the ice just walking out to the car, and it takes much longer to recover from falls/bruises the older I get. Mexico is no longer the place I loved to visit in the past. I like the coast north of Washington state as well as the culture there. I have no family/friend ties that keep me here, so BC has been on my mind for a long time.

Thanks for the PM's from Canadian folks. I'll reply individually when I have more time.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 02:18 PM

There are many values I and many progressive Americans share, but they aren't the values of the US government and a majority of American voters today.

We also have to deal with that.

How about we start organizing a secessionist movement, and all the Northeast, Upper Midwest and West Coast blue states join with Canada, and leave the southerners and westerners behind to watch NASCAR, and live according to their Good White Male God Fearing Values?

Come on folks! Let's secede from the Union, and then none of us has to move! Well, most of us don't have to anyway...

Both my kids, a son and a daughter, are currently of draft age. I remember my mother in law saying, when our kids were all being born, that we'd have to fight a war, because so many boys were being born into the family, compared to girls. A bit prophetic, that mom in law of mine.

Depending on how the next few months and the Iraq war goes, I will definitely counsel my kids to leave the country if the draft is reinstated, and I'll go with them, be it to Canada, Europe, or Latin America. But we'll go.

And frankly, if all that is left behind are the sell out Republicrats, well... may they bloody well get what they fought this election to get--more war.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 02:07 PM

HMMMMM...US or Canada? George Bush or William Shatner? Jack Daniels or Red Rose Tea? HMMMMM

Good luck Alice. I have never regretted my move to Maine. Go for it.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 02:01 PM

Janie,

Are you really giving your son more options? Of course it is every parent's duty to care for the welfare of their child. But do you force your values on your child, and at what cost?   Of course war is wrong, and I am not advocating war. What I do think is important is that everyone make the decisions for themselves. There is a tradeoff. There are many values and benefits that we cherish as Americans.

You open up different opportunities(not better or worse) if you move to Canada. While they do not have a draft (at least as far as I am aware), they do have a military. Who can say that they would never have a draft?

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: TS
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 01:20 PM

Tim Horton's Coffee, REAL Beer, and Flu Vaccines!....touques, ski-doos, and Ice fishing!!....yep...we got it made!..

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: GUEST,Charmion at work
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 01:15 PM

Your children are at much less risk of being eaten by bears than of having their blood drained by our voracious mosquitoes, black flies, deer flies, horse flies and other airborne monsters. You can yell at a bear or play dead or climb a tree, but that doesn't work with biting bugs.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Janie
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 01:06 PM

Ron and SRS,

Don't be so hasty to point your finger.

If I stay, then my son stays. I won't be faced with the choices of being drafted into a morally reprehensible war where my life is at risk, exile, or jail. He will. To wait until he is of draftable age is too late to protect him. If we migrate now, he will have dual citizenship. When he is of age, he can then decide for himself what he wants to do, go to war (which would break my heart, but could be a choice he would make), or renounce his US citizenship. If we stay, his choices are war, exile or jail. Many of my friends were drafted into Vietnam. Others chose exile or jail. All of those decisions and life changes were very difficult. Since I have the ability and the options to give him more choices, then I have the obligation to explore them.

Aside from the fact that I have been fighting for social justice for disadvantaged people in one way or another for 30+ years, and have more than paid my dues, my first responsibility is to my minor child. And as I stated in my first post, were it not for him, we would not consider leaving.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 12:33 PM

Oh my gosh I just looked at Alice's website, available in the member profiles above. She obviously knows far more than anyone else here about the beauty of Montana. You should check it out.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 12:32 PM

The good news is that, for the first time since the 70's, Coloradoans have voted in a majority of Democrats in the state house and senate!

I'd love to leave, too, but if we all did that, it'd be like handing our country over the dumbya and his extreme agenda. I WOULD move, though, if I had a child close to draft age, as I believe Alice's son is.

Good luck to you, Alice,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 12:18 PM

A bear attacked my poodle in West Vancouver, 15 minutes away from the heart of downtown. (Actually my poodle attacked the bear, he was kind of stupid but that day he heard the call of the wild, big time.) John knows his bears.

Montana, YES!! (But maybe she lives in Butte.)

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: UB Ed
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 12:01 PM

Alice, the grass is always greener...

I can't imagine a lovelier place than Montana.

Ed

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:56 AM

If you move to Canada, Bush wins a second time. If intelligent, thoughtful people who have the altruistic mindset that they want this nation to be a BETTER place leave, then it will go to hell in George Dubya's handbasket.

Don't waste your time researching Canada. They have their own set of problems and you won't end up any happier there. Use that research time well learning the system here, and figure out what you can do LOCALLY that will make the difference NATIONALLY.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Bardford
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:53 AM

Actually, if I was a bear, I'd be thinking about moving away from Canada, just to be safe. Here are some stats:

Bear attack stats

And the populace may be more liberal in BC, but the "Liberal" gov't there seems to be further to the right than the good ole boys we got running Alberta. Used to be the name of the party had some meaning.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:46 AM

Alice,

My sincere apologies for misreading. It was a late night and I wasn't thinking clearly.

In the past few weeks too many people have been saying they would leave the country if Bush is re-elected.   When I saw your heading I over-reacted. I really apologize.

Canada is a lovely country that I enjoy visiting. A bit to cold for me, but if you are leaving for good reasons then I wish you well.

Again, my apologies for my foolish post.

Ron

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:38 AM

Sour Grapes!!

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:38 AM

Qoute="Canada is an excellent place to raise a family"
What, and have them eaten by bears?
No thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:36 AM

"49% of the population did not vote for Bush. Those kind of numbers can affect change."

Not unless they stop voting for loser Republicrats they won't. Jesus Ron, is that much not bloody obvious?

Kerry was supposed to be the "most electable" remember? The Republicrats are screwed. Seriously screwed. The progressives are most definitely going to bailing on the Republicrats after this colossal of a loss.

I think maybe Ron has drunk too long at the Republicrat koolaid fountain.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:31 AM

Ron, I must have missed something. I don't think that Alice ever mentioned that as being her reason. My response is based strictly on the fact that I have come to know Canada as a result of friends in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. Various hinterland places there, as well.

I think Alice would like the atmosphere.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:19 AM

No offense to Canada, but for those of you who are going to move because of an election result - good riddance. If you give up the fight because you lose one battle, you aren't helping and we don't need you.   If you think all the changes that we need have been stopped because of one man, you are dead wrong. 49% of the population did not vote for Bush. Those kind of numbers can affect change.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:14 AM

I have relatives in Canada and for the most part love the people I know in Canada.   My biggest problem is that no one in Canada knows how to make Ice Tea.    You cannot get a brewed unsweetened Ice Tea in the entire country.    I have a problem moving to a country that does not know how to make ice tea.

They also don't take Discover Cards in Canada.   I would fire the Canadian Discover salesman in a heartbeat.    That 1/2 point is important to me and pays for Summerfolk.    If I moved to Canada I would lose that 1/2 point rebate because no one accepts it.

The biggest reason for moving to Canada is Tim Hortons, but they have opened a number of Tim Hortons in Michigan.    That took away the main reason to move.

The last reason to move was to see the Stanley Cup.   They brought the cup to my company a few months ago and it was cool to see it up close.   I guess it is easier to see the cup in the states than it is in Canada. I do think they should allow a Canadian team to win it every 10 years or so.

Canadian gardens are beautiful.   I think the nicest gardens I have ever seen in my life are the Queen Elizabeth gardens in Halifax.   Windsor also is lovely with Jackson Park and Coventry Gardens.   I am still looking for a garden in Detroit and one day I may even find one.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: greg stephens
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:12 AM

The trees in Canada go a very funny colour in October, a bit gaudy really. I've decided to stay in Stoke. Unlesss the mayoral elections go the wrong way in May, in which case I may go to Hull.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:03 AM

I've been considering moving to Canada for a long time, though my desire has nothing to do with the election results. But with my youngest baby heading off to Italy in January for a seven month stay, with instructions to check out moving over there, I haven't quite decided yet. I also want to look into Tunisia.

But I'm here until my parents are gone. All the same, it doesn't hurt to plan ahead! I'm tired of the winters, even though we gave up our house for apartment living when our youngest graduated high school, so we wouldn't have to do maintenance. Now I have a patio garden with raised beds, lots of containers, and I'm happy as a clam with that. No more house maintenance for us!

If the draft gets reinstated, Canada may be seeing a lot more Americans heading their way.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Janie
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 10:56 AM

We are looking at Canada and New Zealand, but most likely Canada so that our families are still within "striking distance." If we were childless we probably wouldn't consider leaving the USA. We'd stay here and continue to work for change, but I'll be damned if my 10 year old son is going to get drafted into the religious crusade that our government has started, and that it looks like an unfortunate number of US citizens support.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 10:39 AM

I made the move to Canada and have never regretted it. Sure I miss not having my family around but I have such good friends here, I can't complain.

Bobert - There is no more snow here in Vancouver than in Seattle. Its a little colder but its often sunny and clear. The rain is typical rain-forest rain.

Bearheart - I don't think it would be as easy for older people as it would be for younger people. It is not easy adjusting to another country (even if we do speak English).

Bears? - Yes, I've met a few but only in the bush. Not in the city.

Don't forget - There's a reason for all those social programs. We have very high taxes! Most people feel its worth it. I'm happy to live in a country that has high educational standards and health care for all. Looks like there is an excellent child care package in the works, as well.

Canada is an excellent place to raise a family.

d

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Bearheart
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 10:17 AM

Not to be depressing, but seriously, my mother (75) and aunt (60?) are so upset about the election they are threatening to go to Canada. Mom's in here in southern Ohio, my aunt is in Pittsburgh.

How practical is this really? I think if they really do it, it would be good if they were somewhere in Ontario to be closer to us. But isn't it going to be fairly expensive? What are their options? Any ideas would be welcome.

I keep telling them that they won't be able to change things here if they leave, but they are feeling tired and angry. It's hard to know what to say to them.

Bekki

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 09:57 AM

Our loss would be Canada's gain, Alice. Wherever you go, let us know, eh? You are one that is on my list as a "must visit" before I depart this place. My sister lived in Vancouver and I have visited there and roamed BC. It is a wonderful place, spectacular country, and a very warm feel to it.

By the way, I haven't seen an update on how the young lad is doing. How about it?

All the very best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 09:56 AM

In programme, [it was one of them "how to move house programs",
some people went to canada, and the programme bloke said to them "dont let your kids play in the woods, or bears will eat them"

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 09:50 AM

Alice...I hope you come. Canada's not Eden, but we're a peaceful lot. B.C. is good, but if you don't mind the distance, P.E.I. is great. I'm in southern Ontario, but away from T.O. Good luck!

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Morticia
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 09:48 AM

I'd say on balance that Hull is prolly more dangerous, John.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: *daylia*
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 09:40 AM

The only free-roaming tigers in Canada are the Hamilton TiCats, Sir jOhn. And the TiCats haven't been much of a threat to anyone for years, if I'm remembering correctly.

Also, we do have a lot of bears, but not bares. It's too cold around here for bares.

But never too cold for beers! Or too interesting for bores. Or too uppity for boors. So, what are you waiting for? Come hither all ye disillusioned and disenfranchised ... we've definitely got enough geography for you!

As long as you can afford our taxes, that is.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 09:36 AM

Not many cougars and bears live in downtown Banff, or Calgary, or Edmonton, or Vancouver, or even Moosejaw or Yellowknife, j0hn. The exact population of dangerous animals in such places is EXACTLY the same as for Hull.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 09:20 AM

Heelo, I saw about Canada on TV, they have got dangerous animals there, like bares, and big cats [like tigers etc], i won't move there, its to dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 09:09 AM

I'm considering New Zealand, mah seff. I just don't like all that cold weather and shoveling snow...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 09:06 AM

I hope you succeed in that, Alice. I am located in Ontario, though, and that's a long way from BC. You will find much beautiful land in both BC and Alberta. It's great out there. BC is more "liberal", though. :-) Alberta is cowboy country.

Subject: BS: possibly moving to Canada
From: Alice
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 09:00 AM

In the past few years I've been thinking about moving to Canada. This morning I started researching the process online. British Columbia is very attractive to me, even though I could go straight north from Montana to Alberta. Any Mudcatters in BC who would like to send me a personal message, please feel free to do so.

Alice Flynn in Montana