Lutes

Subject: Lutes
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 07:36 PM

I've found a lute (don't know if it's new or used) but from what info I've been able to gather it's selling for a ridiculously low price of $250.00. For some reason it's labeled "Egyptian Instrument" so I'm pretty sure they don't even know what they are selling (it's not an instrument dealer or pawn shop) I'm quite aware that there are "crap" makers, at least in the field of guitars, but I can't imagine somebody going thru the bother with a lute.

Is that a reasonable price for a new lute? For a used one in good condition? Has anyone lost or had one stolen? Its the first time I've been to this store and don't know the shopkeepers reputation. Lutes are rather rare and this could be a stolen or hocked one. If it is and I can identify it, I will try to get it back to the rightful owner.

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: Leadfingers
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 08:11 PM

IF its legit and playable Chief I could well be interested in it as I do a lot of Medieval stuff . The price is so OK , odds are its got built in central heating !!

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 08:13 PM

Buy it. You can always hang it on the wall. I want one for that.

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 07:44 AM

If it's described as "Egyptian" it could be an oud - similar but not quite the same as a Renaissance/Medieval lute. It might be an idea to find someone to check it out for you, or try to get more info from the shop. If they're honest they shouldn't mind answering enquiries (or admitting they don't know). When/If you have a few more facts, perhaps post them in a lute or early music forum, or (if it's an oud) one dedicated to middle eastern music.

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 08:49 AM

I have an Egyptian oud. You are right, it could be wrongly described. To give you a clue, Ouds are fretless, round backed and usually have 11 or 13 strings. $250 though will only buy a low grade oud.

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 11:08 AM

Thanks for the info,
I'll check it thoroughly.
I thought Ouds were a Turkish instrument?

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 11:52 AM

Lots of information about lutes here.

Lark in the Morning handles just about any musical instrument you can think of, including lutes at various prices. They list a basic lute for $650.00, plus a number of others in the $2,000 to $3,000 range.

I hope this helps.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 12:03 PM

hello, you speled flutes wrong.

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 03:27 PM

Sir John,

Although this thing does have three holes I don't think your supposed to blow in it. Although I know it's possible to suck at playing it!

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 07:43 PM

IF its still in a shop I suppose a piccy is not on then !

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 07:47 PM

oh.

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 08:14 PM

Three soundholes are pretty much a dead give-away for an oud. Occasionally you'll run into an arch lute of the early baroque era that will have three holes, (or a chittarone with something like a meter long neck with bass strings that run off the fingerboard not meant to be fretted), but I digress.... A Renaissance lute's fingerboard is nothing short of 3 1/2 to 4 inches wide where the neck joins the body...whereas a oud is less than 2 inches at the same spot.
   If you bought a Sarasan oud you can always baptize it at the point of a broad sword thereby *christianizing it* into an early Renaissance lute by means of a fairly simple procedure.
   1. buy some fret gut in a couple of sizes ...say .85mm and .75mm
          ([e-mail])

    2. Crazy glue, (ok, cyanoacrylate if you prefer...), some 3 thin
         pieces of wood half way the width of the strings on the body for some extra frets way up high...(make sure you have them where you want 'em before applying glue.

    3.   Now use the crazy glue solvent
      to release your right hand from
         the body of the oud/lute.

    4. Re-tune your lute to a standard Portuguese guitarra tuning...

         (What the hell??? You've never heard of a portuguese guitarra
          tuning????   Jeezzzz .....kids these days....)

      The other dead give-away that you've purchased an oud over a
       lute is that the single string is on the bottom or bass end
       rather than the treble most string (or chanterelle as its
          called in lute lingo )

       Here's the Portuguese guitarra tuning: Good for Weslyan hymns
          and fiddle tunes, (which come to think
             of it ARE fiddle tunes)

      C Gg Aa Dd gg aa   (as it would appear on an 11 string oud
                            bass to treble ...bass courses are
                              octave courses)


         This tuning works nicely for guitar also.


          YOu can also take you normal old 6 string and tune the
            g string down to f# ....move all chording one string
             towards the bass side and you've now got a renaissance
                   lute tuning.


       Hope all this stuff helps.

                   Christopher Kohut


    %

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: GUEST,Christopher Kohut, again...
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 10:36 AM

There's some condsiderable confusion in most folk's minds as to what a lute actually is.   As evidenced by the fact that when you do a general search on the word 'lute' on Ebay you'll come up with some 300 odd entries for the word 'lute'....2 or three of them might actually be a lute. (The Pakistani lutes, about 400 bucks,which are actual 8 course lutes AVOID!!!...the tops buzz like a Florida apaiary in May)   It therefore seems that for better or worse, the very word has become like that work bench in your garage is right now...a dumping place for everything that doesn't otherwise have a place.

Mostly what you'll get on that ebay search are Ouds ...Turkish and Egyptian. Without doubt the lute evolved from the Arabian oud but it took a couple of centuries of evolution and adaption, and the revolution TO finger style playing from using a pick as they were origonally played.

In the former post I sketched a process whereby you could make an oud, which is a largely unfunctional insturment for playing bluegrass,
(Although BOB WILLS and the TEXAS PLAYBOYS might have tried it, had he known of the existance of an oud), into something more suitable for western music and western ears by the addition of gut frets (nylon don't work, tend to slip about the fingerboard at inconvienent moments) and some thin frets glued onto the body of the instrument (although not really necessary) and adoption of another tuning borrowed from the Portuguese and their classical fados (ballads of unrequited love and subsequent homicides)
    All this to say...I wasn't being cute.   This tuning actually works... I've made these modifications to my own ouds, I use it frequently, but is not by any stretch of the imagination the only tuning that you can coax music out of an oud with...not limited to and (sit down for this one), an oud tuning, ( to which I am clueless)

I only meant to say, that if you've been so fortunate to find a oud at a good price, (Ebay has 'em new from Istanbul in good quality and quanity at about 85 bucks and another 80 for the freight via a gentleman I recommend heartily named Osman Simsek althought when it finally arrives your name will doubtless be committed to a homeland security watch-list), a few modifications and you'll be playing 'Rocky Top' with the rest of the boys in no time flat.

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 11:22 AM

If you want hear the current "king of the oud" look up a chap called 'Naseer Shamma' on the internet. I can't do blue clicky things. He is an Iraqi currently living and teaching Oud at Luxor University in Egypt.

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 11:59 AM

Chris,

A Florida Apiary?

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jun 20 - 11:25 AM

What is a Lute? video one of the Facebook page folks posted. Those things should be posted on Mudcat.org also because they disappear forever on Facebook after a few days. This gives an overview of several lute and lute-like instruments.

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: leeneia
Date: 22 Jun 20 - 01:10 PM

"oud" seemed like such a strange name to me until I learned that it's Arabic (or was it Turkish) for "wood."

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: Mo the caller
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 09:57 AM

Further up the thread was mention of instruments with 3 holes.Like this?

Subject: RE: Lutes
From: Jack Campin
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 08:28 PM

That's an archlute aka theorbo. Common early Baroque accompanying instrument.

Look for Mike's Oud Forums as a good source of info on the oud/ud/outi/barbat/gambus. I have two of them, one Syrian and one Moroccan, and other instruments that work in a similar way. They have survived with little change for more than 1000 years with good reason.