BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 12:35 AM

Ssssssh,Red!---You can take your middle finger down now.

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:56 PM

Great to see you posting, Amos.

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:42 PM

True

OG

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 08:09 PM

A good soldier, Old Guy, can handle far more than just 2 defeats.

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:59 PM

(That doesn't sound like red_clay to me, but his friend, tar_heel, incidentally. )

Claymore, if you went to that website that I linked, you saw that I copied and pasted. How about refuting each point? Rather than stating categorically that the points are wrong?

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:13 PM

On the other hand maybe they aren't...

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Cluin
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:11 PM

Rubbin' it in but good.

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:07 PM

Amos the Kerry fanatic has finished licking his wounds and is back for a second defeat.

OG

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:07 PM

The defenders of Stalingrad were pretty fanatical too, Amos. As was Joan of Arc.

One person's courage is thus another person's "fanaticism". Value judgements, carried in loaded words.

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: red_clay
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:03 PM

SIMPLE!!!
IF YOU ARE A LIBERAL DEMOCRAT,YOU ARE DUMB!!!
guess you just cant help it!!!

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 06:55 PM

I think red clay has answered the question.

Fanatacism, high or low, is unbecoming in humans and leads them into desperate unhappy places. Fallujah being one such.

A

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 05:37 PM

I'm the guy who ususally starts out by saying "Ain't facts a bitch" so why change now.

Reference the Slave vs Bush vote map:

1. Check who voted for the Civil Rights Bill in 64 (More Republicans under Everett Dirksen than the Dems under Rayburn voted for the Civil Rights bill).

2. The Washington Post had the same Red-Blue maps for every year back to 1964 (Please explain every election year except the past two, or did the South just discover the slaves had left?.)

3. In the history of Race riots, I don't recall even one occuring in the Red states when they were red states; remember Florida was Democrat during the Liberty City riot. (Why?)

4. Ebbie: Almost everything you stated under the WHOOOOO Underground web site is absolutely wrong. The undesides break for the incumbent; the polls were not all wrong and the ones indicating a Bush win you totally ignored. You remind me of a woman who spoke to me the other day who said " I don't know how Bush won; nobody I know voted for him?" While not normally tolerating such unctuous twits, I simply replied " You need to get out more".

5. And for those who are massively ignorant of their history, Maryland was a slave state and West Virginia broke away from Virginia to become it's own state in 1863 during the Civil War. Maryland has almost always voted blue, while for only the second time in its history WV went blue for Bush but voted in a Democrat Governor by over 70%.

6. Which brings up the point, how many states have a governor or majority legislature different from it's presidential "color". (Please explain New York and California)

Ain't Facts a Bitch...

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 05:26 PM

Red clay [jeeze! What a pseudonym!]
The self-proclaimed "christian" fundamentalists who spout prayer and O.T scripture in all directins in attempt to justify human slaughter [men, women, AND children]cause me great discomfort through trying to suppress a desire to vomit. I have heard no greater blasphemy in my long lifetime than the sanctimonious gabble that has accompanied the assault on the Mideast. Not even Hitler's Waffen S.S. with the "God with Us" on their belt buckles can come close to it.
   Would you all PLEASE attend the words of the Christ and the Baptist---never mind Moses or Abraham-- and face the other way. You will find Him still hanging on the cross, where he has been held in agony for over two thousand years. Time to cut him down, stop the slaughter, tear up the flags of idolatry. Then defend your homeland if you must. You do not do it by killing kids in foreign lands.
So Red--as a certain Jenny Geddes once said in Scotland "Dinnae say yer Mass in MY lug!"

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 05:07 PM

Chuck Hemrick, you can't even write your own prayer??

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: red_clay
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:59 PM

Welcome To The Special Prayer Update!

I want to take this opportunity to thank you again for your fervent prayers on behalf of In Touch Ministries. We are told "With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints" (Ephesians 6:18). Your contribution to In Touch is invaluable as we continue to spread the Gospel throughout the world.

This month I wanted to send you a special prayer message calling our In Touch Prayer Team together to praise God for the re-election of George Bush. We have been praying for:

·         God's will in this election, and



·         For Christians to exercise their rights as godly citizens.

God has answered our prayers! Millions of additional believers voted in this election, which made a tremendous impact on the results.

·         Let's continue to pray and praise God for His mercy and grace.

·         And ask Him for direction, wisdom, and courage for our leaders, as they make critical decisions for our country.

Thank you for being an important part of this Prayer Team.

By praying together we have the privilege of watching God build His church all around the world.

Please share this message with anyone who might like to join our prayer team and take an active part in fulfilling the Great Commission. Our united prayers are making a difference in transforming lives as we spread the Good News of Jesus Christ!

* I trust that you will print this out and keep it with you as you pray for us daily.

"Devote yourselves to prayer, keeping alert in it with an attitude of thanksgiving; praying at the same time for us as well, that God will open up to us a door for the word...." Colossians 4:2,3

so therte!!! read it and weep,but it's the GOSPEL truth!!!

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:09 PM

One simple answer to the question posed by this thread:

TV.

Controlled, centralized, corporate-owned media beamed into their houses on a daily basis, with 2 simple purposes. To sell product, and to produce pre-arranged manufactured consent to tyranny through a ceaseless flow of propaganda and disinformation.

Garbage in = garbage out.

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 12:21 PM

If the Dems did actually lose it was because of fear.

Fear that something would happen to the sanctity of marriage because Gay people could marry (say what?)

Fear that terrorists would be more likely to attack us with Kerry at the helm (as if having a republican stopped them in 2001)

Fear that Kerry would repeal tax cuts (which is not the same as raising taxes) to pay for the deficit and the actions of the government (rather than lowering taxes and spending anyway as we have seen from the current regime)

Fear that stem cell research would lead to wholesale baby slaughter (link it to abortion and youv'e got a good solid plank for your election.) Of course there is nothing to keep any American companies from spending billions of dollars overseas to do the research under their subsidiaries. This allows the current pres. to look like a saint and hard line moralist while the research happens anyway.

I could go on....

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Dumbo
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 10:23 AM

Long live Area 51, The Bermuda Triangle, The second gunman, the Lost Dutchman Mine, Etc.

Watch out for the black helicopters.

D

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Patrick Henry
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 10:15 AM

Succinctly put, Dumbo!!

The Republican response to anyone asserting these discrepancies indicate anything is wrong would be, of course, along the wise of "Stop whining, Those are just anomalies -- get used to it!".

The peculiar bitterness with which that sort of invective is delivered, especially when confronting uncomfortable information, is a bit inhumane, maybe even anti-social.

Free minds like anomalies because they always lead to new discoveries. You don't just sweep them under the carpet. I ownder what new discoveries could possibly explain the anomalies descri9bed above?

Patrick

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Dumbo
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 01:25 AM

You also have to be dumb enough to beleive Kerry was wrong.

D

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 01:10 AM

OK. This is for the bettors out there in MudcatLand. What odds will you give me?

"A poster named 'TruthIsAll' on the DemocraticUnderground.com forums laid out the questionable results of Tuesday's election in succinct fashion: To believe that Bush won the election, you must also believe:
* That the exit polls were wrong;
* that Zogby's 5pm election day calls for Kerry winning Ohio and Florida were wrong (he was exactly right in his 2000 final poll);
* that Harris' last-minute polling for Kerry was wrong (he was exactly right in his 2000 final poll);
* that incumbent rule #1 - undecideds break for the challenger - was wrong;
* That the 50% rule - an incumbent doesn't do better than his final polling - was wrong;
* That the approval rating rule - an incumbent with less than 50% approval will most likely lose the election - was wrong;
* that it was just a coincidence that the exit polls were correct where there was a paper trail and incorrect (+5% for Bush) where there was no paper trail;
* that the surge in new young voters had no positive effect for Kerry;
* that Kerry did worse than Gore against an opponent who lost the support of scores of Republican newspapers who were for Bush in 2000;
* that voting machines made by Republicans with no paper trail and with no software publication, which have been proven by thousands of computer scientists to be vulnerable in scores of ways, were not tampered with in this election."

Click

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Johnjohn
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 01:08 AM

Bush and Kerry walk into a barber shop not knowing the other is there. Both get a haircut and a shave.

After the shave, the barber ask's "Would you like aftershave, Mr. Kerry?", too which he replies, "Oh no, I don't want my wife to think I was in a whorehouse!".

So the barber ask's the President "Would you like aftershave sir?", too which he replies, "Sure, put it on good! My wife has never been to a whorehouse!"

JJ

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Dumbo
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 12:39 AM

Even I am not dumb enough to vote for Nader.

The stupid sumbitch babbles and knows nothing.

D

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: *daylia*
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 08:19 PM

WHy can't they all be like Forrest?

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Peace
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 07:56 PM

"How can 55 million people be so dumb?"

CNN?

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 06:40 PM

Well, the Dems are marginalizing themselves by trying too hard to be Bush-Lite. And they are running out of time to stand as a true opposition party, The DNC shouldn't have conspired wo heavily against Howard Dean because he represented some freshness. The Dems would be better off having lost to Bush by 10 points with Dean than they are having lost with Kerry by 2 points. Why? Well, because they would have forwards some new ideas for folks to think about. Look at Goldwater. At the time he was the nominee of the Repubs, he threw out a lot of ideas that the American people weren't ready for yet. But Goldwater got folks thinking about conservative ideas and the Repubs were awarded down the road very nicely...

This is waht the Dems must do. Thay also need to sit down with Ralph Nader and just listen to him talk for a few hours, then go home and think about it. Nader makes more sense than anyone in American politics and the Dems, if they want to survive are going to have to become a progressive party. If they don't, then there's never going to be any reason for folks to change horses...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 06:39 PM

Guest, I don't see that your history lesson changes the meaning of what I said one iota. LBJ was depressed because he realized that he had lost the southern Democrats but that did not stop him from signing the act. I think that is laudable.

And what do you mean: Thank God Bill Moyers came to his senses?

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: *Laura*
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 06:08 PM

I've said it before but I'll say it again -
Bush thinks the French have no word for entrepreneur!!!

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 05:55 PM

:)

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Dino
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 05:52 PM

I actually voted for Kerry before I voted against him.

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 05:46 PM

No, you got the LBJ quote wrong Ebbie. That quote comes from Bill Moyers, a Southern Democrat at the time who worked for LBJ. You can read the whole story here. And please, please read it Ebbie, because you really don't seem to know your history, if your ignorant statements like this are anything to go by:

"And according to an article I read recently, the main reason they were able to get so strong was that they opened their arms to the reactionary elements. It's scary to imagine hte corollary for what the Democrats might do- or feel compelled to do."

Statements like that Ebbie, show you are more comfortable with, and possibly even side with the Clintonian "New Democrat" southern strategy that appeals so strongly to the bad old segregationist Southerners who once were Democrats and are now Bush Republicans.

To set the record straight, here is the Bill Moyer's quote, with some context:

"Finally, the impact of the 1964 act on the American political scene was profound. Bill Moyers, a former aide to LBJ, recalled, in a statement during a 1990 symposium at the Johnson Library:

The night that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed, I found him in the bedroom, exceedingly depressed. The headline of the bulldog edition of the Washington Post said, "Johnson Signs Civil Rights Act." The airwaves were full of discussions about how unprecedented this was and historic, and yet he was depressed. I asked him why.

He said, "I think we've just delivered the South to the Republican Party for the rest of my life, and yours."

Thank god Bill Moyers eventually came to his senses. LBJ never did, and did in the same mold he was born into as a Southern Democrat conservative.

Is that where you want the Democratic party to go Ebbie, just to make you feel safe from the progressive left? To join ranks once and for all with today's Republican South? You go girl. But I won't be following you.

No surprise to me that a lot of you diehard Kerry supporters are shaking in your boots at the thought of the progressives finally waking up and roaring back, and thinking of heading further right to join with your much more natural allies, the Republican party.

That, in the end, is what Republicrats always do when they vote for Kerry and remain 'Democrats' in name only...

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Dumbo
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 05:22 PM

I am called Dumbo because I voted for Kerry. I have figured out what the problem is.

Dumbo

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 05:11 PM

I keep remembering - it wasn't so very long ago - when the articles one read had to do with whether the REPUBLICAN party could survive. Hard to believe now. And according to an article I read recently, the main reason they were able to get so strong was that they opened their arms to the reactionary elements. It's scary to imagine hte corollary for what the Democrats might do- or feel compelled to do.

The Democratic party losing the American South - where it had had a comfortable hold for generations- stems from LBJ's action in the 60s. When he signed the Civil Rights Act, he is supposed to have said, 'The Democratic Party has just lost the white Southerner vote for decades to come.'

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:28 PM

You know, this is actually very healthy, because what will happen eventually is the Kerry/Clinton right of center Democrats will eventually be forced to go where they belong: to the Republican party.

I have my doubts that there will be a mainstream Democratic party in 20 years. This is the same sort of political realignment we saw in the late 19th, early 20th centuries in the US. It may be the Democratic party gets taken over by the progressive left now, or it may be that the progressive left will finally and completely abandon the Democratic party and start a new progressive left party that renders the Democratic party as irrelevant as the Green Party or the Libertarian party is today.

Either way, that's where we are at now, and as a progressive leftist, I've very pleased by this outcome. I say, leave the Kerry/Clinton apologists to scramble and fight over who gets more corporate money.

In the meantime, the progressive left will remain true to itself and people will look left for leadership, not to the Democrats.

I mean come on. Harry Reid? Just when you thought the Democratic party couldn't be any more right wing, they nominate dear old Harry to act as their party leader. 'Nuff said?

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: dianavan
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:10 PM

Ebbie - Tell the democrats it doesn't matter where they go until they can assure us that the election process is fair and open. Tell that hot-shot lawyer, Mr. Edwards to get busy. They should also begin to listen to Nader instead of brushing him off as a wing nut.

d

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:04 PM

As a progressive, I'm happy to tell the Democratic party where to go from here. :)

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 03:34 PM

"Liberals are not as Left as the Right would have you believe. We stand for morality by health care for children, for protecting the water we drink, the air we breathe, and the chance for hard-hit working men and women to have a fair shake in the economic area and a shot at the American Dream. We don't want a Corporate-state for the government where the rights of average Americans are abused by rich tax-evaders. We need legal public protectors to help us when we don't have the court costs in our pocket. We believe in open courts where justice can't be bought by the wealthy. We believe in marriage also as a lifetime committment and union of two loving people and no one should be excluded from this pursuit through bigotry. We believe that the best strength we can have for protecting our country is through alliances and not isolationist alienation."

Frank, that's a great synopis. Right now, the Democratic party is asking for input on where to go from here. Do you mind if I post this, credited to you? (Incidentally, is that Frank as in Frank Hamilton?)

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 03:23 PM

Yep, the rectum is pretty centrally located. Position your head just right, take a deep breath and ram it home.

There, isn't that better?

Never mind that noise you hear outside. They're just dealing with the terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 03:23 PM

Frank, I agree those are the things liberals *should* stand for, but unfortunately, for the past 30 or so years, the Democratic party hasn't stood for those things. Rather, it has become more and more a corporate owned party. Under Clinton, the party was made over completely into a corporate owned party. The Clinton/Democratic Leadership Council/Dashcle and McAuliffe party leadership conspired and sold the Demcratic party to the highest corporate bidders.

Nowhere was that made more plain than in the political contributions received by John Kerry and John Edwards. Their biggest financial contributors were also the biggest financial contributors to the Bush/Cheney campaign.

We all knew this going into the 2004 campaign, but those of you who blindly chose to follow Kerry, blithely ignored those realities, the same way you blithely ignored the fact that Kerry pandered to middle class suburban voters, at the expense of the traditional base of working class, poor, African American, Latino, Asian American, Muslim, and progressive left constituencies. You also gave the finger to the anti-war movement. You cut the burgeoning progressive labor movement off at the knees by ignoring the Million Worker March, and failing to fight for the minimum wage referendums in Florida and Nevada.

The list of how you Kerry supporters sold out the Democratic party base, not to mention your traditional allies on the progressive left in this election is so long, and constitutes such a profound, deep betrayal of OUR values and everything we have stood and fought for our entire lives, you aren't just going to be able to meekly slither back towards the party base and the nonpartisan progressive left, claiming to extend the olive branch and calling for unity.

I'm not calling for paybacks. I'm not saying we don't keep moving ahead and moving in the right direction. I'm saying I wouldn't trust a Kerry Democrat to work with me at this point. When you violate the trust like the Anybody But Bush faction did this year, you don't just get it back automatically when the election is over and your side loses YET AGAIN because you betrayed the trust of your allies and sold out their values to the highest corporate bidders.

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 03:05 PM

Dumbo says:
"The liberals are too far left of the center.
It's not that complicated.
Tone it down, get closer to the center than the conservatives are and you got it made."

I respectfully disagree. The closer you get to the Center, the more you shift to the Right. This is a disastrous policy for the Democratic Party. Liberals are not as Left as the Right would have you believe. We stand for morality by health care for children, for protecting the water we drink, the air we breathe, and the chance for hard-hit working men and women to have a fair shake in the economic area and a shot at the American Dream. We don't want a Corporate-state for the government where the rights of average Americans are abused by rich tax-evaders. We need legal public protectors to help us when we don't have the court costs in our pocket. We believe in open courts where justice can't be bought by the wealthy. We believe in marriage also as a lifetime committment and union of two loving people and no one should be excluded from this pursuit through bigotry. We believe that the best strength we can have for protecting our country is through alliances and not isolationist alienation.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 02:01 PM

How can 55 million people be so dumb? It may be that they aren't.

"So far, the only national "mainstream" media to come close to this story was Keith Olbermann on his show Friday night, November 5th, when he noted that it was curious that all the voting machine irregularities so far uncovered seem to favor Bush. In the meantime, the Washington Post and other media are now going through single-bullet-theory-like contortions to explain how the exit polls had failed.

But I agree with Fox's Dick Morris on this one, at least in large part. Wrapping up his story for The Hill, Morris wrote in his final paragraph, "This was no mere mistake. Exit polls cannot be as wrong across the board as they were on election night. I suspect foul play."


Read It- and Get to Work

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,PH
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 01:27 PM

Dumbo:

Living up to your name? by promoting herd mentality? Thanks, but no thanks. It is too often used as an excuse for mass reactions and lame-brainism.

PH

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 01:24 PM

Anyone who isn't speaking to family, friends, colleagues, etc because of their political beliefs has mental problems, IMO.

For those of us who are independents, there are no "party lines" to reach across, because we don'thave party loyalties. Yet for some reason, partisans can't quite get their heads around that concept, because they see every issue as either a Republican partisan issue, or a Democratic partisan issue, and therefore believe a war must be fought over that issue. That isn't how you build coalitions or make common cause with people who share your concerns about the issues you care about.

To build coalitions (and no, I don't mean Republican party coalitions and Democratic party coalitions) to further a cause or an issue, you ignore party affiliation altogether, and simply try and get as many people as you can with you, instead of against you. Then, once you think you have the political support, you begin to push the issue through the political system, if that is what it takes, or you block the issue from being pushed through the political system (as should have been done this year with the gay marriage referendums, which were blithely ignored by the Democratic party due to it's cowardice).

I'd say the most important thing for people to realize is that isn't political beliefs that are the problem, it is the tribal loyalties associated with partisanship that are the problem in the US.

Political tribalism of both Democrats and Republicans is the lowest, most base form of agreement, and it never gets you very far. Look, for example, at how the Democrats literally cut off their progressive left wing, simple because Nader was judged by Democratic party leaders as being disloyal to the Democratic party by running for president in 2000 and 2004? That sort of divisiveness is political tribalism at it's worst.

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 12:49 PM

"De Democrats wants de rich folks to suppote me on wellfare so I will vote Democratic."

Interesting thought. Can you show me any figures on how many people supported on welfare vote, and how the votes are distributed?

clint

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Susan A-R
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 12:44 PM

Why join the mainstream without question Dumbo? I have a few things I want to find out before being a joiner. See above.

Susan

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Dumbo
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 12:37 PM

PH:

Wake up to today. Join the mainstream.

Who apropriates those dollars? Are they pork barrel dollars?

Dumbo

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: Susan A-R
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 12:10 PM

Amazing map.

I've been thinking a lot about the poeple I just didn't talk to before this election, a kind of writing off of folks, telling myself it was in the name of maintaining friendships or some such b--t, but really it was my unwillingness to take the time, to really sort things through. There are folks I plan to check in with now. The questions I keep asking myself are:

Why did the issues of abortion and gay marriage rise to the top? Are they really the most important ones out there, or are they just good polarizers?

Can we bring the discussion of marriage back to the civil, rather than the religious?

Can we talk about ways to decrease abortion that are positive (self esteem building in teens, honest discussion about peer pressure and sex,) while still leaving the safe legal option in place, cause abortion will happen, and when it's illegal it gets pretty bad.

Who's decided to link intelligence with arrogance and thus negate folks who are well educated as influential amongst a large segment of the population?

Can we start talking to people as people, friends, family members, not as us/them?

Can we simply defeat the money, rather than fighting that issue, cause with the folks currently in power, that's not going to change?

Anyway, I've had a troubled few days and it's beginning to come clear for me. Interesting times indeeed.

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Patrick Henry
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 11:34 AM

This map compares territories' votes against the same territories' positions on the Slave versus Free issue in the 1860's, revealing a disconcerting parallel.

PH

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Patrick Henry
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 11:02 AM

Ah, Dumbo, thine ears are a miracle. Would that your mind could follow.

In your facile suggestions you fail to suggest what you anyone should actually do, and what you mean by too left -- all I said was notice where the dollars go in the Federal spending scheme.

What is your definition of liberal, in this context? I am curious, because of the thoughts expressed in a recent thread about the origins of liberal thought.

Thank you,

PH

Subject: RE: BS: How can 55 million people be so dumb?
From: GUEST,Dumbo
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 10:41 AM

Patrick Henry is a perfect example of the 55 million that does not "get" it.

Use common sense instead of witchcraft.

The liberals are too far left of the center.

It's not that complicated.

Tone it down, get closer to the center than the conservatives are and you got it made.

Dumbo