BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?

Subject: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:14 PM

I mean, it's a very big country...very diverse...it's a bit unfair to call all Americans fat or stupid. Or both.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Gypsy
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:21 PM

Bless yer heart! I for one, resent generalities. Gotta take people case by case.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Fishpicker
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:30 PM

Kind of like making a statement that all brits are skinny and sallow with unkempt hair, yellow snaggle teeth and dandruff all over the shoulders of thier thread bare tweed sport coats eh! Check it out, almost half of Americans didn't vote for bush.


                           FP

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:35 PM

Ummmm - look at the photographs of the MCer's from America

Then - match the photo to the intelligence displayed in postings - and proliferation of threads about disease complaints.

There is a reason that particular stereotypes have developed - there is an underlying truth.

On the otherhand, it is commonly attributed to the English that they are wanking, pasty-faced, in-breds, with no talent for engineering or cooking, who enjoy wearing ribbons and bows while dancing male to male.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:38 PM

You mean, that's not true, Fishpicker?

Prove it!

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Fishpicker
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:48 PM

No, it's true. I didn't want to hurt anyones feelings by making a generalization and stating that it was a fact but you smoked me out.


                         FP

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:56 PM

Thanks, Fishpicker.

Now I don't think that you are a buttpicker.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:58 PM

all people who make broad generalizations are __ ___ ___ _____ __.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 05:03 PM

.............people who generally like broads.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: *daylia*
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 06:30 PM

Why are we generalising about Americans?

Well Blissfully, who's "we"? Did you mean Mudcatters? Or Mudcatters and GUESTS? Or only *certain* (special-type) Mudcatters? Or all people who post on the internet? Maybe just people, in general?

Hmmm ... it might be of some general help if you'd ever so generously tell us (in general terms) how you yourself happened to generalise about generalising about Americans.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 06:47 PM

"Check it out, almost half of Americans didn't vote for Bush."

Far more than that. Almost half of them didn't vote for anyone. You get their point too.

When non-Americans are rude about Americans it often means they are looking at what they expect they might be like a few years down the one, and they don't like the thought. It's a kind of "God Forbid!"

But generally the kind of things people go on about when in that mood are the same things a whole lot of Americans don't much like too.

.................................................

As for "yellow teeth" - human teeth aren't meant to be shiny white, and never have been. A mouthful of glittering white shiny teeth are quite a scary sight really...

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Fishpicker
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 08:35 PM

Hey, its all good! Just doing a little recipricle chop busting. Fact is most Brits I've had the pleasure to meet , I have liked. We are , after all, two great nations divided by a common language. Oh yeah, my teeth aren't really all that white either. =8^)


                            FP

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: pdq
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 08:43 PM

"fishpicker?"... sounds like musician who really knows his scales...

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 09:22 PM

Well, it was in response to all the 'americans are fat and stupid' threads. Just thought i'd even it out a bit...

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: jimmyt
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 10:25 PM

I think it is refreshing that Blissfully Ignorant, one of our youngest members, has the insight to start this thread. Maybe blissful, but certainly not ignorant. Thanks for the breath of fresh air.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Gurney
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 02:31 AM

'WE' are not generalising about Americans. Include me out.
One fact that I've gleaned in the last couple of years is that Americans have more varieties than Heinz, and are just folks, like Aussies, Poms, Japanese, Icelanders, and all the rest of us.

How the Hell could anyone generalise in a group that includes Blind Drunk in Blind River and ,say Little Hawk or Uncle Dave O?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: GUEST,Captain Blighty
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 05:45 AM

I have met a few Yankees thorugh music and the like, and every one has been a pleasure to have met. Easy going, intelligent, maybe lacking that deep seated sarcasm that most brits ave, but thats just difference in culture for ya. All in all, most people on this earth are just trying to live decent fulfilling lives, unfortunatley its the power mad minority who actually ru(i)n the show. So if ya stick to mudslinging cos of nationality, ya just doing what the lizard-people want you to do.

Captain Blighty of Ilkley moor bah t'at

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: InOBU
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 06:10 AM

Yea and don't forget a lot of Americans are Mexican and Canadian!

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 06:53 AM

Unlike my ex-husband who wouldn't travel to the USA because 'it was full of Americans and you get mugged over there' (one of the reasons he's my ex!) I have found, from personal experience, that folks is folks - most I like, a few I don't,wherever you go.

In my short time here I've met some outstandingly great people, at the Getaway and other places, and just two who p****d me off sufficiently to go on my s**t list for life. That'a about the same ratio as in the UK, and yes, I'm sure that I'm on someone else's s**t list in both countries - you can't like and be liked by everyone!

Generalisations seem to be used by those who need an excuse for their own prejudices on the whole and, as most prejudice seeems to come down to fear of the unknown or a need to maintain the status quo I'm not sure how you get past it. Just ignore it?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:02 AM

thankyou *daylia*

wot I wus goin tu say. I see so many aspersions containing "American" & "irony" and my mind wanders to Tom Lehrer, Stan Freeburg, Ambrose Bierce, Samuel Clerments (reports of his death are not exagerated) Dorathy Parker, Sid Perelman (tell me when to stop)

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:06 AM

Like Guerney, please count me out from the "we".
But if one rephrases the question to say "Why do some /so many people here on Mudcat are generalising about Americans?" then the most likely answer is : "Intellectual laziness". They cannot be arsed to consider individuals on their merits and, driven by stereotypes, they take the easy option of generalising.

Note also that I said "consider"; the truth is that some people go beyond that, and they happily judge others summarily by virtue of accent or nationality or looks or educational level or musical preferences or... the list is long. Racism is not the only "-ism" that is abhorrent.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: *daylia*
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:59 AM

I think something important is being overlooked here. People outside the US see the situation there a lot more objectively - (ie minus a whole whack of fear, anger, pride, cultural conditioning etc).   From that perspective, it's simply unimaginable that anyone in their right mind would vote to continue what's been going on there for the last 4 years.

From the "bird's eye view" afforded to rest of the world, a vote for the Bush administration looks no different than a vote to continue, say, gnawing off your own arm or sawing off your own head. After watching 52% of the nation in question's population vote for that very thing, is it so hard to understand why the question remains .... WHY?

So let's have a bit of compassion for the "generalizers". I think they're still in a state of shock. Given time, they WILL get over it.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 08:26 AM

Please don't leave us out of "deep-seated sarcasm" either--some of us have that too.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Charmion
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:33 AM

Because it's easy and -- until somebody calls us on it -- fun. We Canadians in particular love to feel superior to our bigger, richer, stronger neighbours, and the making of snarky remarks is the only field in which we consistently outstrip them.

If I had a nickel for every anecdote I've heard about dumb American tourists (e.g., the ski-bearing car on Wellington Street in August), I could buy a round of pints for the entire membership of the Mudcat Cafe.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 10:59 AM

Just don't forget that 48% of DIDN'T vote for Bush, and many of us Americans are appalled at what's going on. Don't lump us all together, please. Personally I don't ever remember seeing the nation so polarized, except perhaps around Vietnam.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:20 AM

Blissfully Ignorant said, in part:

mean, it's a very big country...very diverse...it's a bit unfair to call all Americans fat or stupid. Or both.

Well, I'm an American. I have to admit to being fat, but stupid, no. It's considered bad form to name your IQ, I know, so I'll just say that mine ain't too shaggy.

Actually, on the subject of generalization, remember that All generalizations are false. Including this one.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:30 AM

In fact seventy per cent of Americans of voting age didn't vote for Bush.

But surely the reason "Americans" tend to get teased is mostly the same reason anyone gets teased - because enough of them are so very sensitive about it and get so indignant.

I see it as a kind of humility. People who really feel cocky about themselves don't worry about being teased, they just see it as a kind of tribute. "Why are Morris Dancers so fat" - can you imagine anybody getting worked up about that?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: DougR
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:00 PM

Because a large percentage of American mudcatters will believe anything that comes down the pike if it is critical of the United States. Bash America, and they love it!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:02 PM

Right now, I think we deserve a good niggling over here...

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:04 PM

Oh man, Doug, you have it easy! You ought to go outside the borders of Amerika and hear what people are saying...

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:45 PM

Typical, condescending ,down yer bluidy nose codswallop we've all come to love

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:54 PM

I cringe at the thought of the barrage of fury we are about to receive from the Dimensionally-Challenged Morris Dancers Advocacy Association....

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 05:24 PM

"... so I'll just say that mine ain't too shaggy."

why, Uncle Dave...anyone with a decently developed IQ would KNOW that the correct word there is "shabby"...

*ducking for cover*

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: jimmyt
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 05:29 PM

Little Hawk. I have been out of the US many times in the last few years, including to Canada a couple times. I have to say that on no occasion did I encounter ANY people who said anything derogatory to any Americans. I have made an effort to seek out people who were not influenced by me eating at their resturant or staying at their hotel, I am talking normal regular people who had nothing except positive things to say. I think it is important that people know this. NOw maybe I have only been exposed to all the nice folks, but so far, I have had people react and treat me like I have them. Like another decent human being, just doing my best.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 05:35 PM

Martin G. and Doug R. Most of the postings on this thread are constructive. Most folks have valid reason for their beliefs. So that we all at last know, what are yours?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:10 PM

I'm from the most self-effacing nation on Earth, and we still get teased...

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Cluin
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:15 PM

Bliss, are you Canadian too?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 08:00 PM

Daylia 7:59AM: a vote for Bush is "the same as sawing off your head"---couldn't have put it better myself.

With Bush, a head, with the thinking that implies, is precisely what's missing.

We'll all get over it--in 4 years, if he doesn't do something particularly stupid and dangerous in the meantime. I think his willingness to sacrifice world nuclear safety to the wishes of a few US firms fits nicely in the stupidly shortsighted, venal, possibly dangerous category.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 08:00 PM

I cringe at the thought of the barrage of fury we are about to receive from the Dimensionally-Challenged Morris Dancers Advocacy Association....

Well, I suppose, there are Morris Dancers in America, so perhaps that could happen...

.......................

There's a quote that comes to mind in these kinds of discussions:

"As far as criticism is concerned, we don't resent
that unless it is absolutely biased, as it is in most cases"

Who said that? Put it in Google and find out...

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Cluin
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 08:20 PM

You heard Bush in his speech the other day?... "We will reach out our hands to those who share our goals..."

That's a fine spirit of gracious elitism.

Was that the Royal "We", by the way?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 08:38 PM

Well, no jimmyT, I wouldn't think you would have heard derogatory remarks directed toward Americans. That's not really what I was referring to. I was referring to sharp criticism of recent American foreign and economic policy. That's not the first thing one is going to start talking about casually to an American visitor, I wouldn't think. Most people in most places try to be polite and friendly to visitors. One talks politics more with people one knows, when sitting down for a more lengthy conversation together.

Now, I saw this Morris Dancer the other day that was so damn fat that he....(running for cover)

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Cluin
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:21 PM

I have often heard disparaging remarks about Americans in Canada. We all have. (I've heard them in Britain and Ireland too) Why?... Because there are just as many stupid Canadians as there are stupid Americans. For those kind of people, it wouldn't matter what side of the border they lived on; they'd still be looking down their noses at the "other" side.

I've heard quite a few non-flattering things about Canadians when I've been in the States too. Doesn't really mean much; it's just people blowing hot air around. They're mostly speaking from ignorance (but a few WERE really mean-spirited). When they realized I was Canadian, they were quick to backtrack and say "Well, not ALL Canadians..." etc., etc. Unless they were drunk....

I'm sure you wouldn't hear much in the way of anti-American comments, jimmyt. For several reasons: first, you probably only met good people, right? ;)   And even if they weren't good folks, they were probably either chickenshits or they wanted your money.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:26 PM

No, i'm not Canadian...it's worse, much much worse. I'm Scottish.:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:28 PM

jimmyt - What Littlehawk says is true. Canadian are far too polite to confront an American tourist on economic policy or foreign policy. They are, however, watching your every move so they can go home and laugh with their friends and family about that obnoxious guy from the States who actually...

And they have no trouble at all in criticizing your system, your slums, your guns and your narrow perspective on the world. They would never, however, be impolite.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: sledge
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 12:34 AM

Looks like the US has found itself a new King George with his grandiose military ambitions, the last King George was barking mad as well.

Sledge

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 12:39 AM

"No, i'm not Canadian...it's worse, much much worse. I'm Scottish.:0)"

You think YOU got problems.

I am Canadian and my name's Bruce Murdoch.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 12:41 AM

"Because a large percentage of American mudcatters will believe anything that comes down the pike if it is critical of the United States. Bash America, and they love it!"

Doug, that isn't yer best post.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 01:34 AM

"Bash America, and they love it!"

Doug, do you really think that people who were born in America take great pleasure in critisising it? Do you think we wake up every morning thinking gleefully to ourselves, "What can we find to complain about today?"

I can think of lots of ways I'd rather spend my time and energy than to be upset and disappointed and frightened for my birth country, believe me.

But because I was born in a land which holds such promise, and so many opportunities, and has such power in the world, I am using my education and experiences (many of which derived while living and traveling in my birth country) the only way I think is responsible; by not hiding from the truth when I learn it, and not being afraid to speak against the lies when I discover them.

That is my American Legacy.

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 02:30 AM

If a person is going to talk about any large group, I don't see how generalization can be avoided. Statistics wouldn't exist if there weren't a basis for generalization. One just has to be a little cautious. Are Americans fat? Our National Institute for Health says we are. Are Americans stupid. I say we are. Sometimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans?
From: Gurney
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 04:13 AM

Off topic, I'd say the most self-denigrating nation are the Irish. Did you ever notice who tells the irish jokes? The good ones, anyway.
The Jews are good at it, too. Not the few Israelis I've met, though.