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10 Nov 1975 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald

DigiTrad:
BACK HOME IN DERRY
THE EDMUND FITZGERALD
THE NERVOUS WRECK OF THE EDNA FITZGERALD


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: Puzzle:Edmund Fitzgerald and Bobby Sands (57)
Lyr Add: New words for Edmund Fitzgerald (2)
Edmund Fitzgerald Anniversary (4)
New clues to Edmund Fitzgerald wreck (37)
BS: Edmund Fitzgerald. Lost in Lake Superior (6)
happy? – Nov 10 ('Edmund Fitzgerald') (21)
Lyr Add: Wrecking Ball Patrick Fitzgerald (1)
Lyr Add: Edmund Fitzgerald parody (6)
Lyr Add: The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald (6)
Lyr Req: Back Home in Derry (Bobby Sands) (84)
Lyr Req: Back Home in Derry (Bobby Sands) (11)
Lyr/Chords Req: The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald (9) (closed)
Lyr Req: Back Home in Derry (Bobby Sands) (11)
Chords Req: The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald (14)
(origins) Lyr Req: The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald (24)
Lyr/Chords Req: The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald (5)
Tune Req: The Nervous Wreck of the Edna Fitzgerald (9)
Info Req: Edmund Fitzgerald / Back Home in Derry (10)


ToulouseCruise 10 Nov 04 - 12:09 PM
Nick 10 Nov 04 - 12:15 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 10 Nov 04 - 12:16 PM
ToulouseCruise 10 Nov 04 - 12:51 PM
GUEST 10 Nov 04 - 01:56 PM
ToulouseCruise 10 Nov 04 - 01:59 PM
Cluin 10 Nov 04 - 02:13 PM
Shanghaiceltic 11 Nov 04 - 01:32 AM
GUEST,Jim 11 Nov 04 - 09:48 AM
Big Mick 11 Nov 04 - 08:28 PM
GUEST 11 Nov 04 - 10:26 PM
GUEST,Gerry 11 Nov 04 - 11:44 PM
Clinton Hammond 12 Nov 04 - 12:09 AM
Blackcatter 12 Nov 04 - 12:13 AM
Big Mick 12 Nov 04 - 10:32 AM
GUEST,Jim 12 Nov 04 - 10:47 AM
GUEST 12 Nov 04 - 11:18 AM
GUEST,Jim 12 Nov 04 - 11:30 AM
GUEST 12 Nov 04 - 12:07 PM
Big Mick 12 Nov 04 - 01:25 PM
Amos 12 Nov 04 - 02:08 PM
Amos 12 Nov 04 - 02:10 PM
Big Mick 12 Nov 04 - 02:16 PM
GUEST,oreboatman's daughter 12 Nov 04 - 08:47 PM
Terry Allan Hall 12 Nov 04 - 08:53 PM
Clinton Hammond 12 Nov 04 - 09:00 PM
Cluin 13 Nov 04 - 12:16 AM
GUEST,fromleah a girl from the thumb of michigan 10 Jul 05 - 05:38 PM
GUEST 10 Jul 05 - 09:41 PM
GUEST 10 Jul 05 - 09:42 PM
Dave Hanson 11 Jul 05 - 02:09 AM
Clinton Hammond 11 Jul 05 - 02:12 AM
burntstump 11 Jul 05 - 09:44 AM
Kent Davis 10 Nov 05 - 10:46 PM
Kent Davis 10 Nov 05 - 10:51 PM
Naemanson 11 Nov 05 - 12:31 AM
GUEST,Texas Guest 11 Nov 05 - 02:34 AM
Dave'sWife 14 Nov 05 - 08:48 PM
Cluin 14 Nov 05 - 09:10 PM
Cluin 14 Nov 05 - 09:31 PM
Dave'sWife 14 Nov 05 - 09:46 PM
GUEST,JB 15 Nov 05 - 03:37 AM
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Subject: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 12:09 PM

Yes, today November 10th is the 29th anniversary of the loss of the ship the Edmund Fitzgerald, immortalized by Gordon Lightfoot...

Any of you folks perform this song on a regular basis?

Brian of ToulouseCruise.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Nick
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 12:15 PM

A friend we sing with does it every now and again. As we meet up to sing tonight I will get him to do it - thanks for the info!


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 12:16 PM

See thread 23700: Edmund Fitzgerald


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 12:51 PM

No probs Nick... I figured that if anyone performs it, it would make for an interesting bit of trivia....

Brian.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 01:56 PM

Well, you can go visit some Lake Superior shipwrecks up close and personally, if you want. There are both glass bottom boat tours and scuba diving tours. For those who don't know, the ship sank in the Lake Superior "Graveyard of Ships" (freshwater area reminiscent of the Outer Banks of North Carolina), just off the coast near the Whitefish Point Lighthouse in Michigan's UP.

There have been several expeditions to the Edmund Fitzgerald site involving National Geographic Society, and the brass bell was brought up from the ship on one of them, at the request of the family members of the crew.

You can also tour a ship in drydock that is very much like the Edmund Fitzgerald at Duluth Harbor, in Duluth MN. Unbelievable the size of these ships. The Edmund Fitzgerald left Superior, which is the Wisconsin twin port to Duluth.

Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum has the story, and some photographs of the expeditions, and is now home to the brass bell, if you'd like to visit it.

There is also this documentary film about it, though I've never seen it. The website says the film includes excellent underwater footage of the wreck.

However, any suggestion of this being the worst shipwreck ever in the Great Lakes is pure folk hype. The November storms on Lake Superior, however, are not, and neither are the massive low pressure systems over the Great Plains that occur in November too. The most recent storm that came out of the Great Plains and Lakes became "The Perfect Storm" in the Atlantic--that movie with George Clooney, ya know?

I've lived though two such storms now, one on land, one on the shores of Lake Superior.

The worst maritime disaster in the Great Lakes was the "White Hurricane" or the "Big Blow" of 1913, when three massive low pressure systems converged over Minnesota that year, and blew their way out over Ontario, Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, Minnesota, Indiana, into Lake Erie and New York.

Beginning around noon on November 9th, the storm lasted two full days, and is the worst Great Lakes storm on record. By the time it was all over, 235 men were lost from 20 ships and boats: 178 dead on Lake Huron, the rest on Lake Michigan.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 01:59 PM

Great info, Guest... thanks.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Cluin
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 02:13 PM

Yep. Performed this one regularly. Power chords on the mandolin. Not looking forward to ever singing it again, but I suppose I'll have to.

It's a shame that the worst song Lightfoot ever wrote is his most famous.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 01:32 AM

We do this one quite often, I add a beat using my monster 22 " bodhran which hopefuly sounds like the beat of a marine engine.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 09:48 AM

Yes - occasionally, along with many other of his songs. Can't agree it's his worst song Cluin, but it's certainly not his best, and the tune was pinched of course. On the same theme I prefer "Yarmouth Castle" though again it's a bit drawn out. One of my favourites is Early Morning Rain - a song that George Hamilton wrecked but had a chart hit with. Peter, Paul and Mary had a sugar-sweet hit with it too. A great song, especially if slowed right down and played fingerstyle.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 08:28 PM

I keep hearing that the tune was pinched but from where? Maybe I missed it in the earlier thread.

Mick


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 10:26 PM

Why would you steal a melody as bad as that one ?


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 11:44 PM

"However, any suggestion of this being the worst shipwreck ever in the Great Lakes is pure folk hype. The November storms on Lake Superior, however, are not, and neither are the massive low pressure systems over the Great Plains that occur in November too."

As a low-pressure system contains less air than a high, isn't "massive low pressure system" a contradiction in terms? Sort of like talking about 1932 being the height of the Depression?


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 12:09 AM

When I was playing the song years ago, I grew to hate it... the nearly endless monotony... the droning... the repetition...

In the past few years, I've changed it up a bit... played 'harder' with more balls than most covers I've heard... and with a change-up for the "Does any man know where the love of God goes" verse that catches people off....

Now, I have fun with this song, and I LOVE when fans request it saying, "Cause yours is the best cover of it I've ever heard"

In this, as with all things, you get out of it, what you put into it...

Gords worst song? I wouldn't agree... not by a long shot... not any more Cluin...


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Blackcatter
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 12:13 AM

I've given the song the nick name: The Song In Search Of A Chorus. I've heard a punk-flok band cover it. It gets interesting played that way too.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:32 AM

I agree, Clinton. I do it much the same as I do "Back Home In Derry" which is very similar to how you describe your cover of "Wreck". It is one of those songs (Witch of the Westmoreland is another) that is all about the dynamics. Do it well and it is gripping. Don't pay attention to the dynamics and no one hears the story and it is boring.

As in most cases, the song is popular for a reason. It is a good tellin'. It is up to the performer to keep it fresh. That is the mark of a pro.

All the best,

Mick


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:47 AM

Agreed - put drama and real feeling into it and it's very well received. Some haunting harmonica or sensitive violin backing can add much to the song too - and it helps if you're in a folk club where they ditch the overhead lights and light the candles.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:18 AM

I stand corrected Gerry--my post should have read "massive convergence of low pressure systems."

There were three low pressure systems that converged in 1913.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:30 AM

Mick - The tune was pinched (I think - but will stand corrected if anyone knows for sure) from Van Dieman's Land.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 12:07 PM

Not the worst Gordon Lightfoot song, I agree. That would have to go to the maudlin "If You Could Read My Mind".

I'm a big lover of the story behind the song. But in this case, the story of the storm, the wreck, etc is much more compelling than the song. Besides being drearily arranged by Lightfoot on the 'Summertime Dream' album, it has only a marginally decent lyric compared to the other songs on the album like "House You Live In" and "Race Among the Ruins".

I mean come on--"Gitchee Gummee"?

How tragically Longfellow-esque. The lyrics are very stilted, IMO.

As to the tune, I used to have the album but don't anymore, so I can't check the credits. But I'm recalling it was one of those "Lyrics by, tune trad" songs.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 01:25 PM

GUEST, am I incorrect in the assumption that Gitchee Gummee was the name the indigenous people of the area called Superior?

Mick


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Amos
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 02:08 PM

Big Mick:

There was an earlier thread about this song and its tune being pinched or not from (I think) Bobby Sands, who died of hunger striking in a Brit prison for rebellious offenses or crimes.

I'll see if I can find the earlier thread and PM you a link.


A


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Amos
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 02:10 PM

Never mind it was easy enough to find.,

It has all the antecedents linked at the top of it, too.


A


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 02:16 PM

Actually I think that Christy Moore pinched the tune from Lightfoot and set Sands poem, The Voyage to it. He added a chorus.

You may find the words to the poem HERE

Mick


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: GUEST,oreboatman's daughter
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 08:47 PM

"Race among the ruins" sucks, WOTEF doesn't. If you don't like the tune, get off the thread, I'm so tired of your endless carping about it. It's a good song, it's haunting, it gets to people, the arrangement is suitably eerie, it's repetitive in a good way. Get over it!


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Terry Allan Hall
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 08:53 PM

I'll be performing it tonight!

Thanks, TC, for the extra "bit" I can add to introduce this fine tune!


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:00 PM

"oreboatman's daughter"

People are going to have their own opinions... Some will argee with yours... it's like that most won't... here's a quarter... call someone to come build you a bridge so you can get the f#ck over it...


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 12:16 AM

I didn't say it was a bad song (though it's not great). I just said I thought it was Lightfoot's worst; he's written much, much better stuff that most people haven't heard and that's the shame of it.

Actually, it probably isn't even Gord's worst song after all... heard his last album yet? Give a listen to Couchchiching. Peeyew!


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Subject: hey!thanks!
From: GUEST,fromleah a girl from the thumb of michigan
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 05:38 PM

thanks for the imformation.i like reading about the fitzgerald.its nice to learn what happend.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 09:41 PM

The secret is in the delivery. Some performers could sell an ice box to an Eskimo, and others couldn't sell a life jacket to a drowning sailor.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 09:42 PM

Still trying to get rid of that Canadian quarter, eh?


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 02:09 AM

It's been called [ here and other places ] The Feckin Wreck of the Feckin Edmund Fitz feckin gerald.

Nuff said, eric


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 02:12 AM

I was told, again, by an Irishman in his cups a couple of weeks ago, that my 'interpretation' of Wreck of the EF was the best he's ever heard...


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: burntstump
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 09:44 AM

great song, great singer

enough said


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Kent Davis
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:46 PM

It's been thirty years now.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Kent Davis
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:51 PM

Sorry to bring up this thread when someone else had already noted the anniversary. I looked but somehow missed the other thread. Need to look closer next time.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Naemanson
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 12:31 AM

And for another bit of trivia, the filk crowd has used the tune to write the story of Apollo 13, the near tragedy in space exploration.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: GUEST,Texas Guest
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 02:34 AM

Well, it seems this is my night to write myself into threads, so...

I, too, have been told by many that my version of "Fitz" is the best ever done; however, they also say I remind them of Lightfoot - it's then that I know they're in their cups; we sound nothing alike.

I got off the drum kit seven years ago and became a solo folkie.
I got my first gig in a Starbucks - got paid $70 dollars for two hours, knew twenty-four songs and invited everyone I knew to come out and most did - it turned out great and I was hooked.

I then had to sit down and make a list of songs to learn and a few
Lightfoot songs were on that list - but not the "Fitz." Since I live in Ft. Worth, Texas (down from Michigan) I figured nobody down here
would know anything about the Great Lakes, much less about a wreck
that took place in the seventies, so why bother taking the time to learn such a long song......WRONG!

Once I learned enough tunes to book out regularly, a night did not pass where someone didn't come up and ask for "Fitz." I was
always apologetic and would usually do "Early Morning Rain" in it's
stead; however, one night I got four requests for the damned thing and threw in the towel. As of right now, other than performances at Irish Festivals and retirement centers, I cannot get through a night without being asked to sing the song by at least one person - so many people love the thing.

I was singing one night in a Lake Dallas restaurant when one of the
managers came up and asked me if I knew the song and would I sing it. I said yes to both, sang it about twenty minutes later, and she came up afterwards and thanked me with tears streaming down her
cheeks like a waterfall. I asked her why she was crying and she told me that her grandfather went down with the "Fitz." The next time I played there I asked for her and was told that she was on vacation up in Michigan to attend the raising of the bell ceremonies for "Fitz." There's even a connection in Texas.

Finally, I was a writer back in my college time and had an opportunity to interview Lightfoot for the university paper. During the interview he told me that when the ship went down he sat down
immediately and wrote the tune. That night he called the band boys to his house and they did an acoustic dry-run in the living room.
Since the song was tied to the sunken vessel he said he felt that the tune needed to be released immediately so they went into the studio the next day where the song was recorded full-band with everyone playing together.

What you have heard over the years on the radio is the very first "take" of that song. Gordon said they did the tune, stopped and looked around at each other and collectively said, "noooo way,"
and then did two more "takes" for insurance and quit.
The first "take" was the keeper. Of course, most of his band members
(the drummer being the exception) at that time had been with him for
anywhere from ten to fifteen years each - time breeds familiarity.

By the way, I think my version can stand up; and, Don Henley was once asked about doing songs over and over and over again and his response was something like - when folks come out and support you, listen to a song that they came to hear and tap their feet with a smile on their face and then clap in appreciation, "What's not to like?" I agee.   
Just thought I'd share. Down the road,..................mwh


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 08:48 PM

In THIS THread:

RE: Origins: Puzzle:Edmund Fitzgerald and Bobby Sands

It was stated that the antecedent for the tune may have been a song called 'Spancil hill'. Anybody know anything more about that?

Lots of folks assume that 'Back Home in Derry' preceded TWOTEF but in other threads, people have shown that Lightfoot's song came first. Still and all, the melody seems too traditional to be original.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Cluin
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 09:10 PM

Everything done in a pub or bar with attitude is punk. That's where punk comes from. The Beatles were doing mach shau punk in Hamburg in the early 60s. I do a punk version of "Wreck" as well as punk versions of "Man of Constant Sorrow", Folsom Prison Blues", "Iko Iko", "Sweet Caroline", "Cecelia", "Brown-Eyed Girl", "Mustang Sally", and "Roadhouse Blues", amongst others.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Cluin
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 09:31 PM

And apparently the melody to "Wreck" is the most adaptable tune ever written.


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 09:46 PM

Cluin - most amsuing link! Thanks


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Subject: RE: 10/11/75 -- Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald
From: GUEST,JB
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 03:37 AM

Can`t help feeling that there seeems to be some really jealous individuals out there and wannabees who simply do not have the talent themselves to either write their own songs or even cover other artists material decently. Therefore these cynics spend their days knocking the shit out of greats like Lightfoot and Dylan.

I must add that thankfully this only applies to a minority of the thread subscribers who seem to delight in being cynical and scathing in their words.

To all of you cynics I would like to dedicate a famous quote from Brendan Behan who certainly did not mince his words: This is how he feels about press critics who indulge in knocking the artist:

"They are like eunochs in a halem-They know how it`s done, because they see it being done every night-but they can`t do it themselves.

Here`s to the artist!

JB


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