BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole

Subject: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:44 PM

Senators Accuse U.N. Leader of Blocking Their Fraud Inquiry

The oil-for-food scandal

Kofi Annan's Son Under Scrutiny

Kofi Annan's Shrinking Credibility

U.N.'S UNFINISHED BUSINESS

KOFI ANNAN, THE TYRANTS' FRIEND


M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 12:51 AM

I have looked at all of the sites presented by Molotov [above]
   First , may I point out [probably for the millionth-plus time--and by a million-plus people] the the Nations of the U.N. which are being lumped in with whoever has responsibility for the "oil for food" racket, did NOT ,repeat for another emphatic time, NOT oppose the illegal invasion "for the removal of Saddam Hussein". The Vast majority of the members of the U.N. oppposed the unilateral invasion on the contemptible , lying pretence of "weapons of mass destruction". And , I would point out, the USA and Tony Blair were leaders of member countries of the UN,and had--or should have had---some responsibility for just how the "oil for food" programme was being directed. As we all know, they were too damn' busy bombing the hell out of Iraqi infrastructue to be bothered too much with the trivial matter of the parlous state of the human condition in Iraq.
   Nothing which the Bush media in North America can concoct will convince me that what happened leading up to the invasion was all a mirage. Nor will it convince ME that all apologists [American or otherwise] for the Hounds of hell who began this atrocity are not merely mistaken but are actually in favour of the continuing slaughter in the full knowledge that it is all based on falsehood and uncaring greed and cruelty. Molotov---which are you? Do you accept the sincerity of the sneaky little hints of "maybe we were wrong on that but---" and "we were given faulty intelligence"etc., etc.? Or are you one of those who know perfectly well they are liars, but think that the abominable end justifies the evil means? Do NOT lose sight of the fact that the "reason" for attacking Iraq was "weapons of mass destruction' --not the suddenly -embraced lately-discovered "removal of Saddam " and the "liberation" of the Iraqi
people". Hussein was a lousy bastard; so are some of his leading opponents.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 01:34 AM

The US govt has been carrying on a campaign against the UN for some time. Its not Kofi Annan, its just that the US govt doesn't want to be accountable to anyone, or have to operate under any rules but their own. Not content to just do their own thing, they are working hard to systematically discredit the UN and its various committees and functions. And the govts of UK and Australia are not far behind them.

Megalomania resists all limits.

United States leads charge to discredit U.N.

US tried to discredit UN inspectors, says Blix

UK govt spies on Kofi Annan

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 01:38 AM

freda,

One could say that the UN has been carrying on a campaign against the US for some time. Just depends on which set of bias you want to subscribe to.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 02:29 AM

yes, i guess its what's good for the world, or whats good for a few businessmen in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 02:54 AM

Or what is good for a few businessmen in the UN, or whats good for the rest of us...

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: ard mhacha
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:07 AM

Thousands of Iraqi citizens slaughtered and forgotten by two of the most evil warmongering nations on earth, hell will not be hot enough for their leaders.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:13 AM

Hundreds of thousands of Sudanese killed by Arab militias, Hell will not be hot enough for the leader of the UN that chose to let this happen, in addition to Rwanda, Bosnia, and various other places he waits until it is too late to help.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: ard mhacha
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:19 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: ard mhacha
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:22 AM

No other countries in the world come close to waging war with others as the US and Britain, the two evil empires.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:23 AM

No, they just sit back and watch the innocents get killed, and do nothing. See who DIDN'T want to declare what is going on in Sudan to be Genocide- Then talk to me about the US and Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: ard mhacha
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:26 AM

Tell me I am wrong, no other nations on earth can match the evil deeds of the US and Btitain.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:26 AM

"the admnistration will continue to press other countries to press the United Nations to press Sudan's government. The uncertainty of this strataegy was immediately apparent after Mr Powell spoke. Brushing aside the evidence, France and Germany declined to call the killings genocide. "

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:27 AM

How has the tragedy in the Sudan become an excuse for Iraq? self righteousness wears sunglasses.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: ard mhacha
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:31 AM

Can someone compile a list of countries that the US and Britain have over the years been in conflict with, no, I wont ask you to compile a list of countries THEY haven`t been at war with, too easy.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:31 AM

http://search.cnn.com/pages/search/advanced.jsp?Coll=cnn_xml&QuerySubmit=true&Page=1&QueryText=sudan&query=sudan

Has the tragedy in Iraq become an excuse for Sudan? You weep over 100,000, but ignore the deaths of 2 million...


Next time there are murders around here, I will tell the police that we have to pick out the "right" people to protect....

Americans killing arabs is bad, but Arabs killing blacks is ok?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:34 AM

I think i asked you this a few months ago, bruce, what have you done for the people in the sudan?

and why do you say people care about one and not about the other?

black and white..

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:35 AM

..oops, ping pong!

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:39 AM

freda,

I have tried to bring it to the attention of all the caring people here, but that is useless.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE ABOUT IRAQ?

I hear a lot of bitching, but did anyone here ask Saddam to comply with the UN resolutions? NO.


Every time I mention Sudan someone brings up Iraq, and states that I am using Sudan as an excuse for Iraq. I AM NOT.

If all of you out there want to complain about Bush, at least have the decency to allow that his administration is doing more than the UN, France, and Germany.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 07:00 AM

ping

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: ard mhacha
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 07:05 AM

Britain has been to war in America, Asia, all over Europe, including her neighbours Scotland and Ireland, not forgetting her conflicts with the naives of Australia and New Zealand. Post 1945 we have a few other to add to the list, there may be some others I may have missed,
India,Palestine, Malaya, Korea, Suez Canal Zone, Kenya, Cyprus, Suez 1956, Borneo, Vietnam, Aden, Radfan, Oman, Dhofar, N Ireland, The Falklands, The Gulf War, Bosnia, Kosovo, and Sierra Leone.

Now would some kind person from the US try and fill in the countries the world`s policeman has smashed up.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 07:08 AM

This is a good article explaining the situation in the Sudan, for anyone who's interested, but it doesn't say Kofi Annan is arrogant!

Jim Lobe article on genocide in the Sudan

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: ard mhacha
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 07:09 AM

Sorry I overlooked Africa pre 1945.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 07:38 AM

An article from The Observer, Sunday October 3, 2004 comments that American warnings that Darfur is heading for an apocalyptic humanitarian catastrophe have been widely exaggerated, because of Washington's desire for a regime change in Khartoum.

US misrepresenting situation in Sudan

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 01:40 PM

"While none of the aid workers and officials interviewed by The Observer denied there was a crisis in Darfur - or that killings, rape and a large-scale displacement of population had taken place - many were puzzled that it had become the focus of such hyperbolic warnings when there were crises of similar magnitude in both northern Uganda and eastern Congo.

Concern about USAID's role as an honest broker in Darfur have been mounting for months, with diplomats as well as aid workers puzzled over its pronouncements and one European diplomat accusing it of 'plucking figures from the air'."

One word... oil. Plus in northern Uganda and easter Congo, there probably aren't any Arabs involved, so they can't use it in their campaign to demonize all Arabs.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 04:19 PM

Bearded Bruce you say,
"No, they just sit back and watch the innocents get killed, and do nothing."

The Bush Administration has blood on it's hands for killing innocent Iraqi citizens, both women and children.

The "rest of us" that you talk about is nearly half of the US.

Mandate my ass! Mission accomplished!

Annan is under attack by a corrupt Administration.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 07:25 PM

So, does this mean Kofi Annan is NOT an asshole?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 07:36 PM

Anyone can make a war. It takes something special to make a peace. For the following I am very proud of my country:

Canada and peacekeeping
A history of Canada's participation
Over 125,000 Canadian personnel have served in peacekeeping operations for the United Nations; this is more than any other country.
Although the UN began deploying peacekeepers as early as 1948, the term "peacekeeping" itself was not broadly used until 1956 when it was popularized by former Canadian Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson.

Incidentally, 'ol Lester was awarded a Nobel Peace Prize.

Anybody can start a war. These people help end them.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 08:33 PM

From Freda's link - "Another aid worker told The Observer : 'It suited various governments to talk it all up, but they don't seem to have thought about the consequences. I have no idea what Colin Powell's game is, but to call it genocide and then effectively say, "Oh, shucks, but we are not going to do anything about that genocide" undermines the very word "genocide".'

d

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 08:37 PM

No, Kofi Annan is not an arrogant asshole.

I am, however, thankful that he is arrogant enough to defy pressure from the U.S. I am glad that he is intelligent enough to resist the temptation to jump into a situation without knowing the facts. I am really glad that Kofi Annan is able to listen to all sides.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 10:21 PM

"Annan was Secretary-General during the 2003 invasion of Iraq and called for the U.S. and UK not to invade without UN support. In 2004 Annan called the invasion and occupation illegal.

Initially, Annan refused to investigate the Oil for Food program. Only after several independent investigations were set up did Annan agree to do an internal investigation on the program. Several people connected to Kofi Annan, including his son Kojo Annan, appear to have received money from the Oil for Food program illegally. Additionally, several people investigating the program appear to have received money illegally from the program. Annan has ignored calls to make the investigation transparent and refused to hand over several documents to the independent investigations."

"In his book Shake Hands with the Devil: The Failure of Humanity in Rwanda, ex-General Roméo Dallaire claims that Annan was overly passive in his response to the 1994 Tutsi genocide in Rwanda. Dallaire claims that Annan, the head of the peacekeeping mission in Rwanda at that time, held back UN troops from intervening to settle the conflict and from providing more logistic and material support."

"You can do a lot with diplomacy, but with diplomacy backed up by force you can get a lot more done." - Kofi Annan February 24th 1998 regarding the use of force to gain compliance from Saddam Hussein"

"For example, there was that splendidly legitimate U.N. operation in Bosnia, where its blue-helmeted peacekeepers watched with indifference as Serbian soldiers rounded up for slaughter thousands of Muslim men in the so-called U.N. "safe haven" of Srebrenica."

"Saddam's U.N. Payroll
Oil for Food bribery means sanctions against Iraq were doomed to fail."

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 11:04 PM

The UN elected Kofi Annan, its first black Secretary General, after criticisms that it had not been dealing with various crises in Africa.
Many commentators including Nelson Mandela spoke out about the change in the US attitude towards the UN after Annan was voted in.

Racism makes countries ignore UN: Mandela

"When the (UN) secretaries-general were white, we never had the question of any country ignoring the United Nations but now that we have got the black secretaries-general like...Kofi Annan, certain countries that believe in white supremacy are ignoring the United Nations," he [Nelson Mandela] told reporters at the airport on his arrival. "We have to combat that without reservation," he said.

The link is to a an article in the archives of The Daily Times (Pakistan).

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 04:51 AM

Bearded Bruce;
    Would you explain to all of us [we already know the real answer, but we'd just like to know just how you get to your point of view] just how it is that Britain and the US of A come to be exempt from your criticism of the perceived failings of the United Nations Organisation? Aren't they both members of the United Nations? [ I almost said "fully paid up members"--but that wouldn't be quite true; the United States is miserably in default of its obligations in that respect]. Why don't you honestly admit that military power has completely corrupted the thinking of some powerful forces in America, to the extent that unilateralism is the favoured course for them, and to hell with the rest of the world? They should be aware of what happens to self-described "master races". They MUST come under the umbrella of the U.N. If they do not, global catastrophe will come again, and in a much more destructive form. Look at the history of the twentieth century.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 08:56 AM

Kofi Annan vs. Me
The United Nations is useless to blacks in Darfur. China will veto any meaningful action.


M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 09:01 AM

Kofi Annan said the late Palestinian President Yasser Arafat would be remembered for having led the Palestinians to accept the principle of peaceful co-existence with Israel.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 12:13 PM

hi Mr M

since you didnt read that Observer article, here's a bit more..
US 'hyping' Darfur genocide fears

Peter Beaumont
Sunday October 3, 2004
The Observer

American warnings that Darfur is heading for an apocalyptic humanitarian catastrophe have been widely exaggerated by administration officials, it is alleged by international aid workers in Sudan. Washington's desire for a regime change in Khartoum has biased their reports, it is claimed.

The government's aid agency, USAID, says that between 350,000 and a million people could die in Darfur by the end of the year. Other officials, including Secretary of State Colin Powell, have accused the Sudanese government of presiding over a 'genocide' that could rival those in Bosnia and Rwanda.

But the account has been comprehensively challenged by eyewitness reports from aid workers and by a new food survey of the region. The nutritional survey of Sudan's Darfur region, by the UN World Food Programme, says that although there are still high levels of malnutrition among under-fives in some areas, the crisis is being brought under control.

'It's not disastrous,' said one of those involved in the WFP survey, 'although it certainly was a disaster earlier this year, and if humanitarian assistance declines, this will have very serious negative consequences.' The UN report appears to confirm food surveys conducted by other agencies in Darfur which also stand in stark contrast to the dire US descriptions of the food crisis.

The most dramatic came from Andrew Natsios, head of USAID, who told UN officials: 'We estimate right now, if we get relief in we'll lose a third of a million people and, if we don't, the death rates could be dramatically higher, approaching a million people.'

A month later, a second senior official, Roger Winter, USAID's assistant administrator, briefed foreign journalists in Washington that an estimated 30,000 people had been killed during the on-going crisis in Darfur, with another 50,000 deaths from malnutrition and disease, largely among the huge populations fleeing the violence. He described the emergency as 'humanitarian disaster of the first magnitude'.

By 9 September Powell was in front of the Congressional Foreign Relations Committee accusing Sudan of 'genocide', a charge rejected by officials of both the European and African Unions and also privately by British officials. 'I've been to a number of camps during my time here,' said one aid worker, 'and if you want to find death, you have to go looking for it. It's easy to find very sick and under-nourished children at the therapeutic feeding centres, but that's the same wherever you go in Africa.'

Another aid worker told The Observer : 'It suited various governments to talk it all up, but they don't seem to have thought about the consequences. I have no idea what Colin Powell's game is, but to call it genocide and then effectively say, "Oh, shucks, but we are not going to do anything about that genocide" undermines the very word "genocide".'

While none of the aid workers and officials interviewed by The Observer denied there was a crisis in Darfur - or that killings, rape and a large-scale displacement of population had taken place - many were puzzled that it had become the focus of such hyperbolic warnings when there were crises of similar magnitude in both northern Uganda and eastern Congo. Concern about USAID's role as an honest broker in Darfur have been mounting for months, with diplomats as well as aid workers puzzled over its pronouncements and one European diplomat accusing it of 'plucking figures from the air'.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 01:48 AM

Kofi Annan is the top diplomat in the world, but today we need less diplomacy and more truth.

The truth is, Kofi Annan does not need to come to Harvard tomorrow, he needs to go to Sudan. He needs to be with the African Muslims in Darfur who are being slaughtered and dispossessed and starved to death. He needs to go to the South where Khartoum's militia has forced 100,000 Shilluks off their land. He needs to go to the North, and he needs to tell Khartoum to free the slaves.

There are tens of thousands of slaves like Francis Bok, still serving their masters in Sudan. Kofi Annan needs to tell the truth: For a decade Khartoum wages what it calls...what they call a Jihad against Christians and tribalists in the South.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 12:14 PM

Why should Kofi Annan or the UN cooperate with a beligerent Bush dictatorship? Who is the real arrogant asshole?

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 04:26 PM

I love watching liberal squirm when they have to defend the UN.   Kind of like watching the KKK defend their actions.   It is so swarmy you want to take a shower.   Especially all the liberals who claimed the solution for Iraq was to hand it over to the UN.   HA HA HA.

So what it they store 23 billions.   (per Fox News today)   People in Iraq should just be thankful they didn't steal 100 billion.   I mean you can't have enough presidential palaces and statues in a country.   And you have to blame Rowanda, Bosnia, and Sudan on Israel.   (one half of the UN resolutions concern Israel)   Since jews control all the media, politicians, and wealth in this world it is their fault for the genocides.   As the inspector for Kofi Annan said today.   Any inspection of the oil for food program would be too expensive and not worth the time.   You can't aruge with that kind of logic.... well I guess you can.    That is why the UN is a joke, Kofi Annan is an arrogrant asshole, and the people who defend the UN are moronic idiots.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 04:39 PM

Monday, 8 November, 2004,BBC news
UN body probing Sudan 'genocide'

A UN-appointed commission has arrived in Sudan to decide whether genocide has taken place in the region of Darfur.
The five-member panel has three months to reach a conclusion.

The United States has already called the situation in Darfur genocide but the Sudanese say the US declaration is politically motivated.
African Union mediators have been meeting separately with Sudanese government and Darfur rebels in ongoing peace talks in Abuja, Nigeria.

Speaking to the BBC, Sudanese Foreign Minister Mustafa Uthman Isma'il said Khartoum welcomed the commission's arrival because it was confident that no genocide had taken place.

Mr Isma'il said the US was the only country to assert genocide had occurred in Darfur and blamed rebels for the humanitarian, security, and political problem there.

A UN spokesman in Sudan, George Somerwill, said the body's mandate is to investigate of reports of violations of international law and human rights law in Darfur "by all parties" and to determine "whether or not acts of genocide have occurred and to identify the perpetrators of such violations".

Italian judge Antonio Cassese heads the body.

UN body probing Sudan 'genocide'

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 04:47 PM

Jewish people like anyone else have a range of different incomes, political views, and levels of control over their own or anyone else's life.

Jews themselves have been the victims of genocide, precisely because of views like the ones you stated in the last post. this thread is concerned about whether a genocide has occurred. Using it to bash Jews is sorta sick, dont you think?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:22 PM

"Kofi Annan urged the Security Council on Wednesday to take swift action in the Darfur region of Sudan where he said violence was on the rise, the number of refugees was growing and the government was making little progress in disarming fighters responsible for the mayhem and intimidation that has displaced about 1.6 million people and resulted in more than 50,000 deaths...
"There are strong indications that war crimes and crimes against humanity have occurred in Darfur on a large and systematic scale," he said.."

"Saddam Hussein's regime made more than $21.3 billion in illegal revenue by subverting the U.N. oil-for-food program - more than double previous estimates, according to congressional investigators."
M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 02:51 AM

Larry K----when you climb upwards from the Fox News swamp, let's hear from you again.
   What the heck's all this frantic blue stuff???? Is this from Fox too?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 10:30 AM

Molotov is not Larry K.

You can easily see where the article is from by reading the URL in the bottom bar while holding your mouse cursor over the link. Or you can click on it. I particularly avoid Fox News.


M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 10:53 AM

It must be very depressing for all of you to read yesterday that in a national poll Fox News was rated the most trusted news station in the country.   CNN was second.   NBC third.   ABC 4th CBS 5th MSNBC dead last.      HA HA HA HA HA

I know if really sucks when the facts get in the way of your argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: sledge
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 11:10 AM

The UN may not be perfect but whos fault is that, it has a history of being manipulated by the superpowers in one way or another and one of those who has played it the most has been the US.

So LarryK, turn your intellect into researching the financial manipulation of the UN over the past few decades and see where it has been used as a tool of the US rather than an impartial independent body. If you look for yourself then you won't have to complain that I am feeding you sources you don't trust or are biased.

And now that the UN fails to kowtow to US foreign policy it is suddenly vilified as corrupt. Maybe they are not so worried about the finacial big stick anymore!

Sledge

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 11:23 AM

Sledge:

Read the Duelfer report.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: sledge
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 11:56 AM

All very interesting but so what? its a huge document how about you point me to the bit where the UN is discussed, thats the part of the disucssion I felt was of greater relevence, hence my post above in reply to Larryk and his broad attack on the UN. MWD have been done over and over ad nauseum.

Sledge

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: DougR
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 03:14 PM

Guest Molotov: you are fighting a losing battle. These folks don't want to hear anything critical of anybody (particularly a steller organization like the UN), unless it's the USA or Great Britian.

Do not attempt to confuse them with facts.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 06:40 PM

"Facts" from Fox News[sic].

Right.

Its pointless to attempt to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 08:19 PM

After reading a few posts I dozed off---now that I awoke I add that everyone is blowing smoke. None of us are privy to the inner workings of our global "masters" (read corps. and wealthy self interests) anymore.   

Governments serve their masters---which now are the multi national corps. Think about it. Does any nation invade Sudan to bring peace? NO. South Africa and other African nations have troubles---are we or the UN involved? If oil is there---you bet. If not---you know the answer. NO.

Morality was left behind after WW2 or perhaps even WW1. The UN survives but is a toothless tiger---sadly. Well, there is always UNICEF---give some candy for Halloween.

Would that all nations live by the rule of law and let a strong UN function as was idealistically intended. THey have lived longer than the League of Nations---but--sadly---toothlessly.

The UN, however, has also changed in its makeup and that has also created problems in fairness of applying its rules and sanctions.It seems now to be populated by many more Middle Eastern(newly formed) & African nations than were there at the start.

Perhaps if there were no security council (a relic of WW2) and just a General Assembly we might have a more balanced and stronger entity. An entity that might be more representative of the nations of the world as it is today. Perhaps a combination of what we have here--or in the UK. A bicameral body---based on population and one also on region.

As it stands now---for example--the UN can condemn Israel because the voting bloc is Arabic and their supporters---and the US can veto. Which it has. With regard to Iraq we run into the same situation. Granted that in that situation Bush bullied and went it alone---someting the UN was supposed to prevent.

With a bicameral body and a binding decision by that body these kind of things might be prevented and the rule of international law might be better enforced. FOr that, though, we need an actual UN military force to enforce its will. All nations--US included---should subscribe to that if they truly believe in what the charter says. I wonder.

We might, finally, find that no nation is above a law and no corporation is running this planet.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 08:38 PM

Where is there any reference here to a Fox News Article?

I avoid using Fox because it is the first thing liberals and Anti-war protesters whine about, Mean old Fox News. How do they even know what is on Fox News unless they watch?

Here is a series of atricles that illustrate that Kofi Annan has done nothing about the suffering in Sudan except flap his jaws and collect his paycheck:

Annan warns of 'catastrophic' humanitarian crisis in Sudan's Darfur region Tuesday June 15th, 2004                                        

Annan raises possibility of international intervention in western Sudan Thursday June 17th, 2004

Annan not ready to send 'cavalry' to western Sudan to protect civilians there Friday June 25th, 2004

Annan calls Sudan's Darfur "catastrophe" ahead of visit Friday June 25th, 2004

Annan says time to think about intervening in Dafur Friday June 25th, 2004

Annan says U.N. action against Sudan possible Tuesday June 29th, 2004

Annan arrives in Khartoum on Darfur mission Wednesday June 30th, 2004        

Annan, Powell in Sudan to assess Darfur crisis Thursday July 1st, 2004

Annan wants Sudan progress in 48 Hours Thursday July 1st, 2004

Refugees moved before Annan visit to a camp in W. Sudan Friday July 2nd, 2004

UN's Annan wins commitment from Sudan's president to improve security in Darfur Saturday July 3rd, 2004

UN's Annan: not satisfied with Sudan 's effort In Darfur Tuesday September 7th, 2004

Japonese PM talks with UN's Annan about Darfur, U.N. reform Wednesday September 22nd, 2004

Annan urges Sudanese govt and southern rebels to end civil war Monday October 4th, 2004

Annan reports no progress by the Sudan to end crisis in Darfur Tuesday October 5th, 2004

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: DougR
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 09:38 PM

Sigh. Molotov, you persist in trying to reason with these folks, even offering links you believe to support your case. Have a pint and forget about it. I assure you, you are wasting your time.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 09:41 PM

Still don't see why anything above makes Annan arrogant.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 09:56 PM

Brucie:

At least we half way agree.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 02:56 AM

Molotov---do as Doug R. says. Enough; and we can't even make it into compost.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 06:50 AM

The point that emerges from all this is - aid workers in the area have concerns that US allegations of the genocide in the Sudan should be viewed with caution in consideratuion of the US's interest in the Sudan's rich oil reserves.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 11:06 PM

Did anybody see Charles Duelfer testifying live on MSNBC today?

He was talking about how Sadam was paying off the families of terrorists with scammed oil for food money.

Saddam bilked UN of $21B

Oil-for-food netted Saddam $21 billion

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 11:56 PM

It's a bit premature to be stating those things as facts, since it's all still under investigation, and no conclusive report from Paul Volker's independent inquiry has yet been produced.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 11:36 PM

Saddam paid bombers with oil money

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 11:47 PM

The UN's coalition of the bribed...
Benon Sevan, the sidekick of UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan who ran Oil-for-Food, secretly got lucrative rights to illicit oil from Saddam himself

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 11:51 PM

Unlike Halliburton that came by it honestly.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 10:31 PM

Looks like Kofi has brokered a deal in Sudan. Still, it will take time for aid to reach the people. Looks like there is also a polio outbreak as well.

However, thanks to Kofi Annan, the north and the south have agreed to rule the country together and split the oil profits in the new year. All of this remains to be seen but hey - lets give peace a chance.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 11:18 PM

It remains to be seen if this latest "action" has any affect on the crisis.

How many people have died while Kofi Annan has been dragging his feet?

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Truth Fairy
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 11:31 PM

In February 1953, the United Kingdom and Egypt concluded an agreement providing for Sudanese self-government and self-determination. The transitional period toward independence began with the inauguration of the first parliament in 1954. With the consent of the British and Egyptian Governments, Sudan achieved independence on 1 January 1956, under a provisional constitution. The United States was among the first foreign powers to recognize the new state. However, the Arab-led Khartoum government reneged on promises to southerners to create a federal system, which led to a mutiny by southern army officers that sparked 17 years of civil war (1955-1972). In the early period of the war, hundreds of northern bureaucrats, teachers, and other officials, serving in the south were massacred.

The National Unionist Party (NUP), under Prime Minister Ismail al-Azhari, dominated the first cabinet, which was soon replaced by a coalition of conservative political forces. In 1958, following a period of economic difficulties and political maneuvering that paralyzed public administration, Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Ibrahim Abboud overthrew the parliamentary regime in a bloodless coup.

Gen. Abboud did not carry out his promises to return Sudan to civilian government, however, and popular resentment against army rule led to a wave of riots and strikes in late October 1964 that forced the military to relinquish power.

The Abboud regime was followed by a provisional government until parliamentary elections in April 1965 led to a coalition government of the Umma and National Unionist Parties under Prime Minister Muhammad Ahmad Mahjoub. Between 1966 and 1969, Sudan had a series of governments that proved unable either to agree on a permanent constitution or to cope with problems of factionalism, economic stagnation, and ethnic dissidence. The succession of early post-independence governments were dominated by Arab Muslims who viewed Sudan as a Muslim Arab state. Indeed, the Umma/NUP proposed 1968 constitution was arguably Sudan's first Islamic-oriented constitution.

Dissatisfaction culminated in a second military coup on 25 May 1969. The coup leader, Col. Gaafar Nimeiry, became prime minister, and the new regime abolished parliament and outlawed all political parties.

Disputes between Marxist and non-Marxist elements within the ruling military coalition resulted in a briefly successful coup in July 1971, led by the Sudanese Communist Party. Several days later, anti-communist military elements restored Nimeiry to power.

In 1972, the Addis Ababa agreement led to a cessation of the north-south civil war and a degree of self-rule. This led to ten years hiatus in the civil war.

Until the early 1970s Sudan's agricultural output was mostly dedicated to internal consumption. In 1972 the Sudanese government became more pro-Western, and made plans to export food and cash crops. However, commodity prices declined throughout the 1970s causing economic problems for Sudan. At the same time, debt servicing costs, from the money spent mechanizing agriculture, rose. In 1978 the IMF negotiated a Structural Adjustment Program with the government. This further promoted the mechanized export agriculture sector. This caused great economic problems for the pastoralists of Sudan.

In 1976, the Ansars mounted a bloody but unsuccessful coup attempt. In July 1977, President Nimeiry met with Ansar leader Sadiq al-Mahdi, opening the way for reconciliation. Hundreds of political prisoners were released, and in August a general amnesty was announced for all opponents of Nimeiry's government.

Arms Suppliers

Sudan relied on a variety of countries for its arms supplies. After independence the army had been trained and supplied by the British, but after the 1967 Six-Day_War relations were cut off. At this time relations with the USA and West Germany were also cut off.

From 1968-1972 the Soviet Union and eastern block nations sold large numbers of weapons and provided technical assistance and training to Sudan. At this time the army grew from a strength of 18,000 to roughly 50,000 men. Large numbers of tanks, aircraft, and artillery were acquired at this time, and they dominated the army until the late 1980s.

Relations cooled between the two sides after the coup in 1972, and the Khartoum government sought to diversify its suppliers. The USSR continued to supply weapons until 1977, when their support of marxist elements in Ethiopia angered the Sudanese sufficiently to cancel their deals. China was the main supplier in the late 1970s.

Egypt was the most important military partner in the 1970s, providing missiles, personnel carriers, and other military hardware. At the same time military cooperation between the two countries was important.

Western countries began supplying Sudan again in the mid 1970s. The United States began selling Sudan a great deal of equipment around 1976, hoping to counteract Soviet support of marxist Ethiopians and Libyans. Military sales peaked in 1982 at US$101 million. After the start of the second civil war, American assistance dropped, and was eventually all but cancelled in 1987.

Second Civil War

In 1983 the civil war was reignited following the government's islamicization policy which would have instituted shari'a law, among other things. After several years of fighting, the government compromised with southern groups. In 1989 it appeared the war would end, but a coup brought a military junta into power which was not interested in compromise. Since that time the war has raged across Sudan.

The ongoing civil war has displaced more than 4 million southerners. Some fled into southern cities, such as Juba; others trekked as far north as Khartoum and even into Ethiopia, Kenya, Uganda, Egypt, and other neighboring countries. These people were unable to grow food or earn money to feed themselves, and malnutrition and starvation became widespread. The lack of investment in the south resulted as well in what international humanitarian organizations call a "lost generation" who lack educational opportunities, access to basic health care services, and little prospects for productive employment in the small and weak economies of the south or the north.

Peace talks between the southern rebels and the government made substantial progress in 2003 and early 2004, although skirmishes in parts of the south have reportedly continued. The two sides have agreed that, following a final peace treaty, southern Sudan will enjoy autonomy for six years, and after the expiration of that period, the people of southern Sudan will be able to vote in a referendum on independence. Furthermore, oil revenues will be divided equally between the government and rebels during the six-year interim period. The ability or willingness of the government to fulfull these promises has been questioned by some observers, however, and the status of three central and eastern provinces remains a point of contention in the negotiations.

Darfur conflict

A new rebellion in the western province of Darfur began in early 2003. The rebels accuse the central government of neglecting the Darfur region, although the two rebel groups fighting there appear to be divided on the question of whether to seek secession from the Sudan or the overthrow of the government in Khartoum. Both the government and the rebels have been accused of atrocities in this war, although most of the blame has fallen on Arab militias allied with the government. The rebels have alleged that these militias have been engaging in ethnic cleansing in Darfur, and the fighting has displaced hundreds of thousands of people, many of them seeking refuge in neighboring Chad. In February 2004, the government declared victory over the rebellion shortly after capturing Tine, a town on the border with Chad, but the rebels say they remain in control of rural areas and reports indicate that widespread fighting continues.

Kofi Annan has been talking about a solution to this humanitarian crisis for 9 months and has not accomplished anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 07:34 PM

Who at the U.N. took illicit money from Saddam...is an important question, and worth pursuing. But so is the matter of who covered up for Saddam; who pushed to continue and expand a program so derelict that it failed to nab more than $17 billion in illicit deals, and so secretive that investigators have spent much of the past year trying simply to get their hands on information the U.N. should have made public at the time. It is worth asking whose welfare was enhanced, whose domain was expanded, whose coffers filled with $1.4 billion delivered as a percentage cut of Saddam's oil revenues--and who has failed to this day to take on board the thumping lessons about the need for transparency at the U.N.

That would be

Mr. Annan.

He is not protecting the U.N. At great cost to whatever noble aspirations the U.N. once had, and to all societies that value integrity over Potemkin institutions, he is protecting himself.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 08:59 PM

Since you dislike the U.N. and Kofi Annan in particular, perhaps you would be interested in the L20 group Paul Martin is putting together to respond to security and health problems worldwide.

Then again, I'm sure you wouldn't because you are one of those "the U.S. can go it alone" guys.

Lets see how far a my way or the hiway policy gets you, big guy! The dollar just keeps going down, down, down and where it stops nobody knows.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:52 PM

Are defending the UN or attacking the US?

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:51 PM

Neither.

I'm saying that Bush is an arrogant asshole who is trying to 'shrug off' Martin's approach to solving a problem. Bush seems to think he is the only one who has 'the answer'. His answer is war which is unacceptable to most of the world.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:34 AM

So you claim that even if Annan and the UN are on the take it is OK but if George Bush wants to do something about it, it is not OK?

What is Martins approach?

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:06 AM

Molotov - Do not put words in my mouth!

Just because the U.N. is dysfunctional doesn't mean its because there is anything wrong with Annan. The fact that the U.N. is dysfunctional may have more to do with the amount of power the U.S. has than anything else.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:07 AM

Let's just make it L 19.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:17 AM

I was just trying solidify your loose collection of thoughts into a firm statement.

So George Bush is responsible for the UN being corrupt too?

Sheeit. Next thing you know we will find out he is responsible for ugly women.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:18 AM

You seen his daughters lately?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:23 AM

Here you go Molotov, whether Bush likes it or not.

http://www.globalcentres.org/html/project9.html

d

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:02 AM

Molotov, you're not related to a certain M.G by any chance are you?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:09 PM

No.

Another gem of intelligence by Brucie.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 05:46 PM

Molotov---STOP! You're making Doug R. uneasy-----

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 10:14 PM

I will bet Amos is glad he didn't get a whiff of this:

In this USA Today slide show, the second image is of the 40 vials labeled sarin. The caption reads:

Marines discovered 40 vials of suspected sarin gas while searching a house in Fallujah, Iraq. It was secreted in a briefcase hidden in a truck in the courtyard of the house. Two motars tubes, three motar rockets, compass and fire maps also found.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 11:00 PM

Thought they were test kits.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 11:10 AM

Brucie:

You are right. I jumped the gun on that story. My apologies.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 11:18 AM

Such contempt of the rule of law by the U.N. is revealing. Published reports have suggested that as many as 270 U.N. and foreign officials may be caught up in the Oil for Food scandal, including those from some of the nations which opposed U.S. military operations in Iraq - France and Russia.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: DougR
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 02:26 PM

Boab: no, I'm not uneasy. I find it a bit amusing that Molotov, who is obviously a talented pot stirer, has got so many of you folks backed up against the ropes, merely by offering facts for you to consider.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 03:58 PM

Molotov: No problem. I wouldn't put it past Iraq to have WMDs. Maybe from the Russians, maybe from the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 03:59 PM

Hell, Doug. Last time I was on the ropes I still lasted two more rounds. Fight ain't even started yet.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 04:41 PM

Molotov,

Regarding the link you provided:

Congress goes after internet spying

This is down towards the bottom of the article--statements. I hope this means that Congress will look into Echelon also. Americans aren't just at risk from other people.

As to the UN over-looking stuff in the oil-for-food thing. That's true. But what does it have to do with what ever you're arguing?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 06:23 PM

Brucie:

The thread is about Kofi Annon's corruption and his attempts to cover it up.

The purpose of the thread is to expose the fact that the reason the US had to go it alone in Iraq is because a bunch other countries mainly Russia, France and Germany, plus officials of the UN, had a good thing going and did not want the US to break it up.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Boab
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 10:52 PM

Well---you must be in an exhausted state by now, Doug R! Molotov has been chuntering ceaselessly for a book's worth and some odd hours over and above. Just so you don't feel lonely, you do have company in your amusement. I find the ravings of Molotov more laughter-inducing than those of Seinfeld by a fair margin. What does set the teeth on edge, however, is the fact that some folk take the man seriously---some even agree with him! I did him the courtesy of checking on some of his blue clickies. The last one I looked at referred to TWO committees [all good-ole USA in absolute total content] which were sitting in some kind of weird judgement of Kofi Annan and the operations of the U.N. Now this would be a fairly harmless diversion for the sages involved, if only they were doing it for their own little satisfaction. But they [think they] aren't! The world is expected to take their ramblings as being of much greater import than all that can be accomplished by a U.N. which is comprised of every nation of the world having a genuine interest in the welfare of ALL the Earth's people. Unfortunately [and I think you must concur here] all the nations of the world do NOT believe in settling controversy by international discourse. Or even in keeping reasonably up with the funding which, by universal agreement, they are supposed to supply. If they do not believe in these things, should they not just keep themselves quiet? They'd look less ridiculous if they did. Molotov and his many thousands of friends, however, are more inclined to shove those facts in the faces of others and think that they've scored thereby. What folks like him don't get is the FACT that the "facts" that he is holding up in this instance for all to see SHOULDN'T BE facts at all!
    If there is provable mismanagement of funding in the UN organisation, please bear in mind that the USA is one of the top group of nations involved in it. They themselves, if they have been as closely in touch as they should, must bear some of the blame which is being so triumphantly tossed around.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 12:39 AM

I am not about to whitewash the UN. But in the process of not doing that, I also will not whitewash the USA.

The cost to my country's refusal to participate without UN sanction has been an economically depressed cattle industry. We have paid a high dollar price. Most of us will be a long time forgetting that.

So while I agree with some of your sentiments with regard to the UN and its shenanigans, it does not make the US cops of the world, and nor does it make me appreciate its tactics with my country.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 08:45 AM

As the Oil for Food corruption investigation infolds we will see who is the corrupt villian in this Iraq matter.

What is the latest about the humanitarian crisis in Sudan?

Kofi Annon has backed off of his ultimatim.

UN secretary-general Kofi Annan ruled out sanctions on the Sudanese government, saying that Khartoum's pledge to restore peace after 21 years of bloody fighting was good enough.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 08:50 AM

The only chance for the survivors of Darfur may be a mass divestment campaign

A woman and teenage girl who were raped and abducted by soldiers in western Darfur have claimed that the Sudanese army organized airlifts of sex slaves to serve as the "wives" of government soldiers in Khartoum. . . . "Each of us was raped by between three and six men," said Bokur [Hamis, 21]. "One woman refused to have sex with them, so they split her head into pieces with an axe in front of us." -Benjamin Joffe-Walt, Sunday Telegraph, London, September 19

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 04:54 PM

. . . and all this is in aid of WHAT? Nothing here is new news.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 09:31 PM

U.N. peacekeepers face abuse charges

And although the 150 charges of rape, pedophilia and solicitation in the Democratic Republic of the Congo may be the United Nations' worst sex scandal in years, chronic problems almost guarantee that few of the suspects will face punishment.


M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 07:17 AM

brucie,

So, if news is not new, you see no need to discuss it. Therefore, why do you complain about the treatment your country gets for not supporting the US efforts in Iraq? OLD NEWS!

Amd what is this about Canada refusing to stop exporting asbestos to the world, to benefit the 1000 or so remaining miners? Even the US has recognized that asbestos is a health risk- I guess it is ok, as long as the Canadians make good money off the suffering of others.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 09:09 AM

I keep waiting hopefully for the title of this particular thread to vanish below the line...but no...

Okay. Kofi Annan may be an arrogant...

But he can't touch Wolfgang in that department! Or Clinton Hammond either, for that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 09:37 AM

And in the asshole department, he doesn't hold a candle to some of the right-wing nutcase posters here like, well...............

never mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 09:50 AM

98

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 11:11 AM

99

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 11:12 AM

Wait, no, this is 99.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 11:12 AM

100! Ha!

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 11:49 AM

Damn! I was otherwise engaged on another thread! Pistols at dawn I fancy eh Little Hawk?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 02:14 PM

Your comeuppance has been too long in coming, super Ted. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 03:03 PM

GUEST:

I don't understand what the other guy is trying to say. Hell, you're correct on the asbestos thing. What Canada is doing is bad. Did someone give you the impression that Canada doesn't do bad things? Take us to task for that and you'll have my support. Insult my country for no good reason and I will suggest you kiss my arse. Please allow me to suggest that. Get rude with me it gets returned.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 09:40 PM

U.N. deserted leads in oil-for-food investigation

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 09:46 PM

Good article.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 09:51 PM

Here's another good article from the San Jose Mrecury News, Nov. 27, 2004

        Posted on Sat, Nov. 27, 2004

Halliburton dealt new setback in Iraq probes

A third or more of the government property Halliburton was paid to manage for the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq could not be located by auditors, investigative reports to Congress show.

Halliburton's KBR subsidiary ``did not effectively manage government property'' and auditors could not locate hundreds of CPA items worth millions of dollars in Iraq and Kuwait this summer and fall, Inspector General Stuart W. Bowen reported to Congress in two reports.

Bowen's findings mark the latest bad news for Vice President Dick Cheney's former company, which is the focus of both a criminal investigation into alleged fuel price gouging and an FBI inquiry into possible favoritism from the Bush administration.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 11:32 PM

I saw that article, brucie, and couldn't help but wonder ...

How do you manage government property without keeping an accurate inventory?

Ohhhh...maybe thats how government property ends up on the black market and/or in the hands of terrorists or insurgents. If its needed to continue waging war and making profits, I guess you just call it business as usual. Maybe thats what Bush refers to as political capital.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 11:50 PM

I don't think anybody is in love with Halliburton. It seems that they are the only company that can handle certain things.

The Clinton administration awarded them no bid contracts but that was OK. Al Gore said they were great.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 11:54 PM

I disagree. It was definitely NOT OK, regardless of who gave them the contracts.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 12:27 AM

Brucie:

So what company do you reccomend?

   M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 12:33 AM

Cheney is an arrogant asshole.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 12:34 AM

Well, since it's supposed to be about the re-creation of infrastructure in a new and democratic Iraq, how's about some Iraqi companies? Maybe with some advice from the international community. I mean, don't you think that getting Halliburton--a company of which the Vice President of the United States of America was the CEO--is just a bit much?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 03:17 AM

As if there are no engineers or architects or builders in Iraq.

Who knows, maybe there are no men left, only insurgents who have fled.

Seems that anyone over the age of 14 was considered the enemy. Lota dead bodies in Falluja. Who's goint to re-build that?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 06:13 PM

Iraqi contractors are expressing frustration following their initiation into the mysteries of government contracting, American-style. Contract opportunities under the $18.6-billion supplemental budget for Iraqi reconstruction are a powerful lure, but the bidding process and contract requirements of the Coalition Provisional Authority's Project Management Office look daunting to many...

"We want to do everything we can to encourage Iraqi companies to take part in the reconstruction of their country," says Michael Fleischer, deputy director of the Private Sector Development Team.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 06:58 PM

yeh.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 07:02 PM

Saddam Hussein's regime poisoned everything it touched - including the United Nations, writes Tony Parkinson.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 07:11 PM

In his testimony, Mr. Greenblatt listed as oil-voucher recipients Benon Sevan, who headed the U.N. office overseeing the oil-for-food program; a Russian politician, Vladimir Zhirinovsky; a former French interior minister, Charles Pasqua; a British Labour parliamentarian, George Galloway, and a Syrian journalist, Hamidah Na'na.

Mr. Zhirinovsky and Mr. Galloway were vociferous advocates for the lifting of U.N. sanctions. Investigators said the Iraqi government allocated 80 million barrels of oil to Mr. Zhirinovsky, and they released a copy of a letter written by the Russian inviting an international oil company to Moscow to negotiate to buy oil allocated to him.

The Russian, along with other foreign politicians named in recent weeks as oil voucher recipients, denied any wrongdoing. Last month, Mr. Annan said he didn't believe the Security Council had been influenced or bought in any way by the ousted Iraqi dictator.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 07:46 PM

Kofi Annan's son received payments from firm with an oil-for-food contract


M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 01:29 AM

Full circle!

Kofi Annan's SON is the asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 10:40 AM

Did Kofi Annan influnce the UN to give the contract to his son's firm?

True, he approved some scrutiny. All Oil-for-Food shipments into Iraq had to be inspected - initially by Lloyd's Register of London, but in 1998 they were let go and replaced by a Swiss company, who had on the payroll a consultant by the name of Kojo Annan, son of Kofi. Hmm.

Maybe we should ask Hallibuton. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 10:14 PM

The Oil-for-Food Scandal
The program was corrupt. The U.N. owes the Iraqis--and Congress--an explanation.

"If there is evidence, we would investigate it very seriously," Kofi Annan insisted last month when presented with allegations that U.N. officials knew about and may have benefited from Saddam Hussein's corruption of the U.N.'s Oil-for-Food Program. Fortunately, Saddam appears to have been a stickler for record-keeping.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 11:33 PM

By Charles Lane
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, October 8, 2004; Page A30

"CIA analyst Charles A. Duelfer's report on Iraq's weapons programs included lists of governments, political parties, companies and individuals from at least 44 nations who received vouchers to buy oil -- both legally and otherwise -- from the Iraqi government during Saddam Hussein's reign.

The names on the politically explosive list are French, Russian, Chinese, Canadian and Japanese; if Duelfer had had his way, U.S. companies and individuals would have been included, too.

But he was overruled by CIA lawyers. The report instead lists some voucher recipients only as "U.S. person" and "U.S. company," explaining in a footnote that disclosure was barred by the 1974 Privacy Act and "other applicable law."

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 11:56 PM

You will find the complete list here

The Us recipients were:

United States:
Samir Vincent received 10.5 million barrels. In 2000, Vincent, an Iraqi-born American citizen who has lived in the U.S. since 1958, organized a delegation of Iraqi religious leaders to visit the
U.S. and meet with former president Jimmy Carter.
Shaker Al-Khafaji,the pro-Saddam chairman of the 17th conference of Iraqi expatriates, received 1 million barrels.


M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 12:26 AM

Must be nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 09:14 AM

November 28, 2004
Tinesonline.uk
The wages of greed
Robert Winnett and Stephen Grey reveal how the UN betrayed the poor of Iraq in what is being called the greatest financial scandal ever:

"People called him Mr Cash.

He represented an oil trader based in Switzerland. His job was to make Saddam's favoured visitors rich. In his case were tightly wrapped wads of $100 bills....

...In 1998, on the recommendation of Kofi Annan, the UN secretary-general, the security council voted to expand the programme to pay for bridges, power plants and water systems. Huge amounts of almost unchecked money began flowing into Iraq. Yet the population did not benefit. A recent medical survey found Iraqis suffering a high rate of colon cancer, blamed on the poor quality of the wheat imported under oil for food.

By 2000 Iraq was free to sell as much oil as it wished through the programme. Corruption went into overdrive as Saddam began insisting on a kickback from every barrel of oil he allocated. A letter written on August 3, 2000 by Vice President Taha Yassin Ramadan, marked "urgent and confidential", informed fellow ministers that a high command committee wanted "extra revenues" from the programme.

Anyone wanting to purchase Iraqi oil had to pay between 10 cents and 50 cents a barrel into illicit bank accounts. According to Iraqi oil ministry documents, Saddam's embassies in Moscow, Athens, Rome, Vienna and Geneva also began accepting cash bungs for oil."

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 09:36 AM

Crooks & Liars. SADDAM'S U.N. SLUSH FUND
Part of an article in the NY Post by Susan Sachs:

Sachs writes of the Rashid Hotel lobby, "where the oil traders would gather whenever a journalist, actor or political figure would arrive in Iraq and openly praise Mr. Hussein. [emphasis added]

"Experience taught them that the visitor usually returned to the hotel with a gift voucher, courtesy of the Iraqi president or one of his aides, representing the right to buy one million barrels or more of Iraqi crude."

At last, some light on so many foreign visitors' otherwise inexplicable enthusiasm for the brutal regime.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 01:02 PM

At last, some light on so many foreign visitors' otherwise inexplicable enthusiasm for the brutal regime.

You mean like this foreign visitor?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 11:02 PM

ABC News Dec. 1, 2004

Former American fugitive Marc Rich was a middleman for several of Iraq's suspect oil deals in February 2001, just one month after his pardon from President Clinton, according to oil industry shipping records obtained by ABC News.

And a U.S. criminal investigation is looking into whether Rich, as well as several other prominent oil traders, made illegal payments to Iraq in order to obtain the lucrative oil contracts.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 11:12 PM

The above--various links provided mostly by GUEST, (Vyacheslav Mikhailovich) Molotov indicate that there was corruption involved with the oil/food program. That's always been a given to me. Anytime that lots of money changes hands, some gets scooped in finders' fees, gifts, expense accounts, etc. That siad, what point is this thread trying to make? (I mean no offence with that question. When I mean to be offensive I speak very differently, and I reserve that for people whom I hate with a passion.)

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 11:26 PM

Brucie: See Molotov Date: 24 Nov 04 - 06:23 PM

Kojo & Kofi
Unbelievable U.N. stories

"These do not suggest a U.N. that was living in ignorance of Saddam's 10-percent-overpricing-and-kickback scheme.

For instance, in the U.N.'s own footnotes, there is reference to the welding-machine contractor from Lebanon, "unwilling to accept the 10% deduction"; likewise the Belgian and Jordanian suppliers of medicine, both refusing a "10% reduction." In other cases there is a vaguer note, such as the Russian backhoe supplier, who "refused to accept extra fee deduction." Or the supplier of "fork lift and spares" from Belarus who "stated that the supply of remaining parts cannot be cost effective under the current circumstances." Asked to further explain these notations, an Oil-for-Food spokesman offers no comment except that all available information is already posted on the U.N. website."

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 11:47 PM

The first hint of something rotten with the UN came to me when the present war was approaching. It seemed almost like the UN was glad that there was going to be a mess in Iraq, and their recurrent "give us more time despite the fact we're finding nothing in the way of WMDs" seemed to ring hollow with me.

However, that said, we're left with the question, "What to do next?"

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 11:48 PM

"But the one company that helped Saddam exploit the oil-for-food program in the mid-1990s that wasn't identified in Duelfer's report was Halliburton, and the person at the helm of Halliburton at the time of the scheme was Dick Cheney. Halliburton and its subsidiaries were one of several American and foreign oil supply companies that helped Iraq increase its crude exports from $4 billion in 1997 to nearly $18 billion in 2000 by skirting U.S. laws and selling Iraq spare parts so it could repair its oil fields and pump more oil. Since the oil-for-food program began, Iraq has sold $40 billion worth of oil. U.S. and European officials have long argued that the increase in Iraq's oil production also expanded Saddam's ability to use some of that money for weapons, luxury goods and palaces. Security Council diplomats estimate that Iraq was skimming off as much as 10 percent of the proceeds from the oil-for-food program thanks to companies like Halliburton and former executives such as Cheney.

UN documents show that Halliburton's affiliates have had controversial dealings with the Iraqi regime during Cheney's tenure at the company and played a part in helping Saddam Hussein illegally pocket billions of dollars under the UN's oil-for-food program. The Clinton administration blocked one deal Halliburton was trying to push through because it was "not authorized under the oil-for-food deal," according to UN documents. That deal, between Halliburton subsidiary Ingersoll Dresser Pump Co. and Iraq, included agreements by the firm to sell nearly $1 million in spare parts, compressors and firefighting equipment to refurbish an offshore oil terminal, Khor al-Amaya. Still, Halliburton used one of its foreign subsidiaries to sell Iraq the equipment it needed so the country could pump more oil, according to a report in the Washington Post in June 2001."

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/leopold.php?articleid=3767

No wonder they're gunning so hard for Annan. They're trying to divert attention away from Cheney's and Halliburton's complicity in the corruption of the Oil for Food program.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Boab
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 01:36 AM

brucie---I honestly can't follow your reasoning re. the UN's "give us more time----". I think "more time" might have convinced Bush-Cheyney-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz that they simply couldn't get away with the 'WMD" reason for attacking Iraq. They simply HAD to get Toady Blair on board and get it going before they were bereft of any excuse that gullible multitudes might swallow. The cry of "the UN risks becoming irrelevant" which was trumpeted so often was made to come true---as far as the aggressor nations were concerned.
I do agree with your closing remark, however. If the January "democratic elections" are seen to be one more farce [and I WOULD like to see truly democratic elections in Iraq]then, indeed they will be left with the ongoing "what to do next".

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 01:52 AM

I don't know specifically that it is reasoning on my part. The Iraq War was coming, and there was zip the UN could do about it. BUT, the UN also put up with lots of bull from the Hussein crew. Being stalled on inspections, not be allowed to go where they wanted WHEN they wanted. That had been going on for years. Why? You have the authority to inspect, inspect. They seemed to be frustrated, and yet they were reluctant to leave. Something just did not 'feel' right. Maybe it was a bit difficult to leave all that flowing cash behind. Hell, everyone except the Iraqi people have been making bucks off this war, as is usual. But tell me what has changed? The Iraqis have new masters who are killing as many of them as their old master. And the UN is out of the picture and saying little of substance.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 01:58 AM

I agree with Carol when she says, "No wonder they're gunning so hard for Annan. They're trying to divert attention away from Cheney's and Halliburton's complicity in the corruption of the Oil for Food program."

Hey, in what world do you not receive a 'handling' fee. 10 cents a barrel? I mean, gimme a break. Seems like very small potatoes compared to the profit Halliburton must have made.

Thats right hmmmmm.....why don't you go ask Halliburton?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 02:00 AM

Maybe it's like the Annan stuff placed a piece of the puzzle on the table. Maybe that's why there were no WMDs found in Iraq. Someone playing footsies with the Hussein gang and slowing down the process. I don't know. I supported the war at first, but now the whole damned thing stinks of money, corruption, evil. That includes Bush and the gang, Hussein and the gang, and the UN and the gang. Diogenes would have a helluva time there right now, IMO.

However, it's likely just more paranoid ravings from a guy in the wilderness. You might be right, Boab. I hope you are, but I fear you're not.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 03:39 PM

Molotov, seems like you've had too many cocktails.

Kofi Annan is innocent of all charges. He warned the Security Council through the other UN agencies that this would be a problem. They didn't listen.

Your sources are the Pittsburgh Trib. Isn't that owned by Richard Mellon Scaife?

And the New York Post? Why not quote the National Inquirer? It has more credibility.

And the Heritage Foundation? Give me a break!

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 04:48 PM

George Galloway was to-day awarded £150.000 against the right wing newspaper The Daily Telegraph, another right wing lying rag has to pay up to one of the few brave anti-war Labourites, fair play to you George, thats the second right wing rag you have proved liars.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 04:49 PM

Kofi Annan's great, great, great grandfather's brother's 3rd cousin killed and ATE one of my ancestors back in the old country! It's a well known fact. For this reason I would not trust the man no farther than I can spit.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 04:50 PM

YAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.

Will he lose it on appeal?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 04:59 PM

What are you talkin' about? He ain't even on trial for it! Statute of limitations. Anyway, it was his great, great, great grandfather's brother's 3rd cousin that did it.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 05:07 PM

George Bush has arrived.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 01:09 AM

Rights group slams proposed UN reforms as cowardly
02 Dec 2004 17:10:45 GMT
Source: Reuters

"We fear that's going to make things worse, not better," said Ken Roth, Executive Director of the New York-based group. He urged U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan to reject the proposals as a "cowardly remedy".

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Boab
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 05:02 AM

Could we all please note that the members of the 'coalition" which invaded Iraq without the backing of the United Nations constitute a n appreciable percentage of the veto-wielding members of that organisation? Like the old League of Nations, the UN is being quite deliberately undermined by its most powerful members who see their self-interest and nothing more. They should come to their senses. If the world's most powerful nations cannot, in the end, work in harmony, the result is illustrated down thro' history; global conflict.
It is almost inevitable.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 11:58 PM

The basic question is did the members who were benefiting from the oil for food scandal support Saddam Hussein and oppose the invasion?

I believe so and if so, Kofi Annan, who was overseeing the oil for food program, was negligent and possibly benefiting himself.

In light of the fact of the massacres in Bosnia, Rwanda and the current one in Sudan, he is totally derelict in his duty.

This renders the whole of the UN corrupt, ineffective and irrelevant. I don't think the UN can be fixed. The UN needs to be replaced and the US needs to quit pumping money into the UN because it is only benefiting the enemies of democracy.

The Scottsman
Sat 20 Nov 2004
UN must reform if it is to fulfil its purpose after past failures
THE United Nations was founded in 1945 to "save succeeding generations from the scourge of war". It has failed. Recognising that fact is the precursor to putting it right. To take only the most recent example, in Darfur, in western Sudan, some 300,000 people have died over the last 20 months as a result of genocide and mass starvation at the hands of the Khartoum regime. The UN has proved powerless to stop this massacre.

The organisation's track record over the past decade has been equally lamentable. It failed to make Saddam Hussein obey repeated Security Council resolutions, yet refused Britain and the United States formal permission to bring Saddam to heel. It did not act over the genocidal conflict in Bosnia, which was only ended with unilateral action by NATO. And UN troops stood by helplessly while 800,000 Hutus were massacred in Rwanda.

What can be done to make the UN more effective? Or should it be scrapped? These questions are being debated inside the UN.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 02:27 AM

Canada could oppose a resolution which condemns Israel and merely calls suicide bombers a "concern" thereby achieving a better balance in the U.N. and assuming a more active role in post-Palestine Arafat.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Boab
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 04:05 AM

Molotov---you're 'way offbeam again. the US never has been noted for"pumping money into the UN". In fact, if the US had done their share of pumping money and/or resources into the UN, sad history now unfolding would have been very different. Every significant military participation by the USA which had any sort of international flavour has been either unilateral or under the umbrella of NATO---a confrontational organisation if ever there was one. Too many powerful nations in this world are solely guided by "what's best for ME" .

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 06:25 AM

Annan spoke out, so it's payback time
By Caroline Overington, Herald Correspondent in New York
December 4, 2004

All talk? The whisper in Washington is that there were two losers on November 2. The first was John Kerry, who lost the election to George Bush. The second was Kofi Annan....

Annan spoke out, so it's payback time

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 06:39 AM

As the US continues not to pay UN contributions in full, the US is responsible for approximately half of the UN debt.

graphs of money owed to UN

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 02:24 PM

"What can be done to make the UN more effective?"

Freda gave you the answer to that in the post above this.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 02:43 PM

The basic question is did the members who were benefiting from the oil for food scandal support Saddam Hussein and oppose the invasion?

In the case of Halliburton (and their cronies in the Bush administration), I'd say they were in favor of the invasion, since they are now raking in large amounts of money through their war profiteering in Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 02:44 PM

How do you get the U.S. to pay up?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 02:53 PM

Small Claims Court won't do it, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 03:07 PM

"Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception." (Mark Twain)

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 03:12 PM

How do you get the U.S. to pay up?

It probably isn't possible to do that. But that's really the least of the problems being created for the UN by the US. Probably the only way to correct that is what Prime Minister Martin seems to be in the process of doing... bypassing the US and the irrelevant role it is creating for itself in the world, and bringing the rest of the world together to help create positive change without the help of the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 03:19 PM

Carol C. - I hope that is what Martin is doing.

Martin is smart (Bush should be paying attention) but I'm not so sure he is an honorable man. At this point, however, he is our best hope. He deserves watching.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 05:30 PM

The guy who is really arrogant is Norm Coleman who is attempting to undermine Volcker's investigation. Kofi Annan can't do much about the problem in Darfur. At least he is trying whereby Bush chooses to ignore it by pouring taxpayers money into a failed war.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Calhoun
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 05:32 PM

Last year Congress passed an appropriations bill for UN arrears but
included language on the controversial domestic political issue of
abortion that had nothing to do with the United Nations arrears
forcing President Clinton to veto the bill.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Truth Fairy
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 07:12 PM

Fact Sheet
Bureau of International Organization Affairs
Washington, DC
August 31, 2004

United Nations

The regular biennial budget of the UN in 2002-03 was $1.968 billion. For the calendar year 2003, the United States� assessed contribution to the UN regular budget was $341 million. In addition, the United States� assessed contribution to UN specialized agencies amounted to over $400 million. The United States also contributed $686 million in assessments to the peacekeeping budget; $57 million for the support of the international war crimes tribunals for Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia; and, $6 million for preparatory work relating to the UN Capital Master Plan. Moreover, each year the United States provides a significant amount in voluntary contributions to the UN and UN-affiliated organizations and activities (largely for humanitarian and development programs). In sum, U.S. contributions (both cash and in kind) to the UN system in 2003 were well over $3 billion.

The United States and other major UN contributors continue to press for budgetary and administrative reform to make the UN as efficient as possible. In 1999, the United States Government legislated the "Helms-Biden" provision, which authorized the payment of U.S. arrears to the UN and other international organizations upon certification of the Secretary of State that a number of reform goals had been achieved in the UN and major specialized agencies. Between 1999 and 2002, the UN met all required certifications. As a result, the United States cleared over $900 million in arrears to the UN and other organizations. The Secretary-General submitted a further round of reform initiatives in late 2002, and the United States is advocating and closely monitoring their implementation.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 07:41 PM

United Nations FFinancial Situation:
Status of U.S. Payments for 2003

As of November 17, 2003, the United States had paid the UN over $897 million in calendar year 2003, comprising the following:

    * $586 million for UN peacekeeping. Our current period assessments (through September 30),
      representing about 27 percent of the budgets, amount to $621 million.
    * $253.2 million for the UN Regular Budget*. Our calendar year 2003 assessment, representing 22 percent of the UN budget, is approximately $341 million, of which $229 million has already been paid. We expect to pay the remainder as soon as the fiscal year 2004 appropriation is enacted.
    * $52.5 million for the War Crimes Tribunals. Our calendar year 2003 assessments, representing about 25 percent of the budgets for the two tribunals (former Yugoslavia and Rwanda), amount to $57 million. We expect to pay the remaining $4.5 million balance shortly.
    * $5.5 million for design costs for the Capital Master Plan. This is our total calendar year 2003 assessment, which represents 22 percent of the total Capital Master Plan budget for 2003.


*$24.2 million relates to the balance of our calendar year 2002 assessment and $229 million relates to part of our calendar year 2003 assessment.

Ambassador Danforth: Remarks to the Press on his Tenure as U.S. Permanent Representative, December 3, 2004

Ambassador Danforth: Remarks to the Press (in his National Capacity) on Iraq and Security Council Reform, November 30, 2004

Howard Stoffer: Statement in the Fifth Committee of the General Assembly on the UN Capital Master Plan, November 15, 2004
   
Candice Ebbesen-Ross: Statement in the Fifth Committee of the General Assembly on Program Planning, November 9, 2004
   
Ambassador Kennedy: Statement in the Fifth Committee of the General Assembly on the UN Security Management System, November 4, 2004
   
Thomas Repasch: Statement in the Fifth Committee of the General Assembly on the UN Office of Internal Oversight Services, November 3, 2004

Benjamin Garcia: Statement in the Fifth Committee of the General Assembly on the UN Common System, October 29, 2004
   
Thomas Repasch: Statement in the Fifth Committee of the General Assembly on the UN Joint Staff Pension Fund, October 28, 2004

Benjamin Garcia: Statement in the Fifth Committee of the General Assembly on Human Resources Management, October 28, 2004

Ambassador Marsh: Statement in the Fourth Committee of the General Assembly on Questions Relating to Information, October 20, 2004

Thomas Repasch: Statement in the Fifth Committee of the General Assembly on the Reports of the UN Board of Auditors, October 18, 2004

Stephen Rademaker: Statement in the First Committee of the General Assembly on the Test of Effective Multilateralism: Meeting the Dangers of the World with Resolve, October 8, 2004

Ambassador Siv: Statement in the General Assembly on Strengthening of the UN - Civil Society Participation, October 4, 2004

Ambassador Siv: Statement in the Second Committee of the General Assembly in General Debate, October 4, 2004

Tenth Anniversary Symposium of the UN Office of Internal Oversight Services entitled "Governance, Leadership and Accountability", September 10, 2004

Values and Principles in UN Reform - Article by Assistant Secretary of State Holmes, September 3, 2004


http://www.un.int/usa/budget-59ga.htm

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 07:45 PM

Waugh! Beware of the latest terrible virus: "Blue Clicky"

It infests posts with an avalanche of blue clickies that lead nowhere useful and eat up hours and hours of your time. The only way to defeat Blue Clicky is to resist the temptation to click! Be warned now before it is too late!

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 08:37 PM

Part 6
Administration and Budget
UN Financial Situation

"At the end of 2003, outstanding assessments by UN member states totaled $1.603 billion. This represented a small decrease from the 2002 total. The largest portion of the outstanding assessments came from UN peacekeeping operations ($1.066 billion), followed by the UN regular budget ($442 million), the International War Crimes Tribunals ($88 million), and the design phase of the UN Capital Master Plan ($7 million).

Seven member states comprised 87 percent of the total outstanding assessments with the United States accounting for $762 million and Argentina, Belarus, Brazil, China, Japan, and Ukraine accounting for $628 million. The majority of the total sum owed by the United States related to UN peacekeeping operations ($482 million) and the UN regular budget ($268 million). The delay in the U.S. budget appropriation for fiscal year 2004 affected the U.S. payment for the UN regular budget, resulting in a payment shortfall of approximately $100 million. Overall, U.S. payments in 2003 for all UN assessed activities totaled $1.012 billion of the $3.720 billion in payments made by all 191 UN member states.

The UN's Under Secretary-General for Management (currently Catherine Bertini, a U.S. citizen) provides a semi-annual update of the UN's financial situation to the Fifth (Administrative and Budgetary) Committee. In her presentation in October 2003, she noted that the cash balance for the UN regular budget was approaching zero and that cross-borrowing from terminated peacekeeping operations would be required before the end of the calendar year to forestall a deficit. Such cross-borrowing had already been initiated in July with respect to the International War Crimes Tribunals in the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda. Both tribunals had exhausted their available cash due to non-payment of member assessments. Japan, the UN's second largest assessed contributor, made no payment toward its 2003 dues of approximately $41 million. The United States completed payment of its 2003 dues to the tribunals in late autumn ($57 million total for the year).

The UN's cash balances for its various peacekeeping operations were
projected to be $1.198 billion by the end of 2003. However, most of the balance would not be available due to other financial needs, such as peacekeeping operating costs in early 2004 and reimbursements to the Peacekeeping Reserve Fund. In addition, the UN's debt obligation to troop contributing countries was estimated to be $565 million by the end of the 2003. This was less than the previous year when the total debt was $703 million. The UN's Under Secretary-General for Management was expected to update the debt figures and other UN financial data at her next briefing to the Fifth Committee in early spring 2004. "

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Boab
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 04:04 AM

Freda, give up. The USA as it is now [and has been for a long time]abhors the very notion of "United Nations". There are those on the extreme right who believe that America is all powerful, and they therefore can impose their will on the World. They may be slowly relearning their lesson in the Mid East. May be. There are, too, a great host of Americans who, while recognising the power wielded by their country, would wish it to be used wisely, and for the good of all people. Unfortunately they have no power in their own country. The US, over the next four years [barring miracles] will careen from chaos to catastrophe. We will be lucky indeed if they do not drag the world into the same abyss. Donald Rumsfeld, for Gawd's sake, has been ASKED to stay at the helm! He's the only western politico I've ever seen actually shaking the hand of Saddam!

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:27 PM


Time for a Kofi Break
Annan's one virtue: He weakens the U.N.

BY GLENN HARLAN REYNOLDS
Sunday, December 5, 2004 12:01 a.m. EST

"Things are going badly for Kofi Annan. The Oil for Food scandal has revealed U.N. behavior regarding Saddam Hussein's Iraq that ranges from criminally inept to outright corrupt. Rape and pedophilia by U.N. peacekeepers haven't gotten the kind of attention they'd get if American troops were involved, but the scandals have begun to take their toll. And the U.N.'s ability to serve its crowning purpose--the "never again" treatment of genocide that was vowed after the Holocaust, and re-vowed after Cambodia and Rwanda--is looking less and less credible in the wake of its response to ongoing genocide in Darfur. And finally, the U.N. has so far played no significant role in defusing the Ukrainian crisis."

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Boab
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 03:33 AM

"There you go"--as yon New York cowboy cop used to say on t.v. "Annan's one virtue; he weakens the U.N." Friend Molotov really likes that headline! And that tells all about himself, and all others of his ilk, does it not?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 06:50 AM

we need more billionaires with a conscience

p.s..

give up?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 06:58 PM

We need to replace Kofi Annan with William Shatner. I'm surprised that this has not occurred to anyone else by now.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 07:35 PM

Right Arm, Ted Turner!

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 11:39 PM

Kofi Annan resides over another masacre.
What has he done except flap his jaws and collect his pay?

Annan: Darfur sliding into chaos
12/7/2004 9:00:00 AM GMT

"The UN said that about 22% of Darfur's children under five are suffering from malnutrition.

UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan reported that the Sudanese western region of Darfur is sliding into chaos, as violence escalates and the number of those who need humanitarian aid reaches nearly 2.3 million, more than a third of Darfur's estimated population of six million."

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 11:44 PM

Do you have info as to what the Security Council proposed after they 'read' the report?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 11:57 PM

Tell us Brucie.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 12:01 AM

Tell, schmell, I'm asking you!

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 02:10 PM

Brucie:

I don't know but read the readers comments at the end of that article:


"the un ignored darfur because they were too busy accepting bribes from iraq. now they present a page document that states the obvious. they should have done something a long time ago when there was a chance.
halfe from USA


to hell with non intervention, the african union is so structurally incapable of dealing with this and the sudanese government is aparently unwilling. call in the peacemakers, i have a great per sticker for it, 'shoot a gun in darfur, and we'll fire ten back at you'. how long before this descends into guerilla warfare, and reignites the north south conflict? and the sad thing is that no one will read this, because everyone's benevolence stops at the borders of their own in groups, which here, is either israeli, arab, american, or iranian. sovereignty should not be a absolute principle, as evidenced by the victims of darfur.
Chuck from Canada


kofi annan should use some of the blood money his son & he received from oil for food programs to help those poor souls. its a shame the world community has let this happen, including the us
Matt from Texas


the problem with all of the conflicts. is that we wait too long to do anything to stop them. saddam should never have been allowed to go as far as he went before being stopped. the people of dufar should not have been ignroed this long. the fight agains terrorism should have started long ago with the first bombings.kidnappings.. executions.etc. we let things build to enormous strengths before we do anything about it.
penni from usa


the people of the us would like to help, but the eu will have to lead on this. any american peacekeepers here would be accused of occupation. we can back you guys and the canadians with cash and logistic support. but the current political climate will not allow americans in that region. on another note five hundred us marines just went to the philipines to help rebuild after the floods there. or maybe we are invading.
Cal from USA


great job u.n....you have done soo much for the people of the darfur region. im sure you would have made iraq a success also. congrats for all your hard work. not
david from usa


once again no pauline or margaret on here outraged at the d e aths in dafur or revaling in the misery of the people
Danno from USA


ever notice how a darfar article only gets a dozen or so comments, wheras an article that says something like "cia provides bleak comments of iraq" gets hundreds. this is a very strange phenomenon. its also strange that you never see any of the mighty anti us warriors on here. as much as i hear people like margaret, carlo chas, robert from canada, and others scream about human rights, you would think they would take more interest in this article. moosleems are being killed and here. where is all the pious moosleem outrage? oh, i forgot, when an arab does it, its ok.
Kuphir from Amriqi


all of you ignorant fools blaming kofi for the disaster in sudan should be ashamed of yourselves. when it comes to african no country in the un security council is ready to help, but when it comes to iraq with oil, you are ready to commit coalition of willing to sacrifice your sons blood for oil.
Freeman from unknown


i think you are all missing the point. the reason we dont get fired up about this is because it is m0slums doing genocidal acts against xtians. that doest make the headlines. get real.
ethoman from usa


freeman the un is so willing to blast the us for iraq. they knew of the genocide in darfur and did nothing. if they are going to be the flagship of peace and love in this world it should be for all. by the way i watched some of the relief pictures on the news and saw usa written all over the food being given out. must have been my imagination.
Halfe from USA


why should the us do anything about darfur? let kofi go there with his blue helmet and try to stop arabs from sl aught ering chr&isti#ans. the only thing the understand is the business end of a gun.
Average Joe from USA


if the us decided to go in people would start yelling about us invading again. they would say that we were after darfur's oil so that we would control a larger percentage of the worlds oil supply. they would say that we only went it because we would get to fight against arabs. see the problem is that everyone just wants to tell the us what to do. we are the most powerful country in the world and everyone wants to be in that position. so they tell us that we should do this and should do that. it does not matter what we do people will not be happy because we have the power and they don't. the insurgents in iraqi do not care about the iraqi people or about freedom they care about power. they want to control the country so they want the us out. france votes against the us to hide thier complicity and because they want power to control what the us does. see you all look at it from the wrong point of view.
Reason from Colorado
   

because the us doesn't care about power we can do what we need to. we can do what is right for the iraqi people and make them free. we don't need to care about the oil because people will sell it too us anyways. they want to be our friends because we have the power. so we will fight for the iraqi people to be free. when we can we will fight for dafure. i am sure that we will be sending food and medical to dafure as soon as we can make sure that it gets to the people that need it.
Reason from Colorado   


you all fools who cannot reason correctly, us was not in rwanda because there was no oil. us was in kuwait because there is oil. she is not in sudan because there is no oil, but in iraq because there is oil. we invaded iraq through kuwait, why didn't we install "democracy" there first then iraq? i do not understand something is missing
Freeman from unknown


freeman, sudan does have large deposits of oil. so there goes your reasoning. look things up before you make these wild assumptions.
Reason from Colorado


in response to 'reason from colorado'. the us wants to control the worlds oil reserves, not because it needs all the oil in the world, but because whoever controls the oil has enormous wealth and power. if the us controls the worlds oil, it controls the world.
Brown from Canada


brown, the us controls the world anyway, whats the point in direct control over oil? i see "boycott american goods" on these posts sometimes and its always an amusing part of my day. when the american stock market crashed before one and the us was no where near what it is now economicaly, our citizens were hungry, but ppl all over the world were worse, they starved. oil is nothing if you have the ability to export the myriad other things ppl need to l iv. e. food for an example.
jim from jamestown"

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 02:12 PM

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 02:31 PM

Brucie:

If you have something to say about the UN or Kofi Annan, good or bad, say it.

I say the UN's handling of the oil for food programe was the main reason for the problems in Iraq.

A. The member nations were making illicit money from it.

B. the UN did not want it to change. They did not want Saddam ousted.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 07:00 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 07:09 PM

The so-called "oil for food scandal" involves the Security Council of the UN which included the US who had companies that approved of the deal.

It has nothing to do with the Secretariat of the UN or any of the other agencies.

The sources for Molotov's rants are Fox News and a nest of Neo-con news sources that can only be trusted for it's blatant propaganda.

This whole thing is a red herring that is being promoted by Norm Coleman to smear the UN as part of a Bush agenda.

The UN-bashers are shooting themselves in the foot because their isolationist policies will not carry any weight in the world community who BTW back
Kofi Annan.

The investigation by the former chairman of the Federal Reserve Board will
reveal more substantial information than the Neo-con UN-bashers such as Norm Coleman.

Frank



I realize that Fox news has influence amoung the reactionary

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 07:11 PM

M,

In some ways I agree with you. The UN has becaome something that isn't too effective. It is not what the 'dreamers' dreamt it would be all these fifty-some-odd years later. Having said that, I don't want the USA to be the cops of the world. Their actions of late haven't been all that good. Iraq has become a CF and it's not being handled very well, IMO. But I have spoken to that before.

K Annan may be the leader--but he has little power. The Security Council needs to get off its collective arse and decide some issues to do woith the various wars, famines--whether natural or man-made--dislocations of people in large numbers, etc. It is not, because they have agendas, and where the UN should be looking at the humanitarian side of things, it has to bow to its sponsors. We know that to be true. The UN is losing its credibility because it is powerless. The scandals? Well, show me a large organization that doesn't have them. An American outlaw was asked why he robbed banks. He replied, "Because that's where the money is." Same in this instance, IMO. People are out to get what they can grab, and screw the rest. It's no different in the UN. I wish I knew what the answer is.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 08:44 PM

The UN has grown into a ineffective bureaucracy. I needs to be replaced with all new management.

UN forces should be in Sudan right now enforcing the deals that the UN made with the government.

They have a meeting. The Sudan government agrees to do such and such. The government does not do it. Sanctions are threatened. The Sudan gov still does not live up to the agreement. The UN goes for more meetings.

Bullshite. It is the same way with Iran. Either a nation with balls or an honest world body with teeth and forcefulness are needed.

Kofi Annan's peace price should be recalled.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 08:52 PM

Well, let me rephrase that, M. I do know what the answer is, but getting it to happen probably isn't possible. Give the UN teeth. Sanctions on a country like Sudan? Jaysus. Just what over two million starving people need: sanctions.

I don't know what kind of salaries these UN leaders make, nut IMO, if that's the best they can come up with, then the pay is too much by power of ten.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 09:15 PM

The UN can always strike up an oil for food program.

CHINA'S INVOLVEMENT IN SUDAN: ARMS AND OIL

"China's need for oil reserves for its growing domestic economy has caused its government to pursue investments in many countries of marginal stability and democracy, but its greatest oil success abroad has been in Sudan."

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Maybe we should ask Hariburton.


M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 09:18 PM

Right, M. - "Either a nation with balls or an honest world body with teeth and forcefulness are needed."

What isn't needed is for the U.S. to continue supplying rebels with guns and ammunition.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 10:55 PM

Here is an exhaustive article Sudan

Arming the perpetrators of grave abuses in Darfur

and the only references I see to the US are:

"In 2001, the United States government increased its involvement in the peace process in Sudan by appointing former Senator John Danforth as the US Special Envoy for Peace in Sudan."

"In 1999, it was reported that twenty T-55 tanks had been exported from Poland to Yemen by the Polish state arms export company, Cenzin, but then illegally re-exported to Sudan without authorization from the Polish government.(68) A year earlier, Poland had attempted to sell 50 T-55 tanks to Sudan, but the proposed sale was halted under pressure from the US."

Do you have some other information?

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 12:39 AM

United States flip-flops on UN chief Annan, says it wants him to stay

Excerpts -

"UNITED NATIONS (AP) - The United States expressed confidence in UN Secretary General Kofi Annan (news - web sites) on Thursday and said he should remain at the helm of the United Nations (news - web sites), an abrupt turnaround from its refusal to back him last week after a U.S. senator called for his resignation.

The unequivocal support from U.S. Ambassador John Danforth, who said he was speaking on behalf of President George W. Bush (news - web sites)'s administration, aligned the United States with the 190 other members of the United Nations who rallied to support the beleaguered Annan.

"We are not suggesting or pushing for the resignation of the secretary general," Danforth said.

"We have worked well with him in the past and look forward to working with him for some time in the future."...

...On Wednesday, U.S. deputy ambassador Patrick Kennedy joined in the ovation at the end of Annan's presentation to the General Assembly of a report that called for the most sweeping reforms of the United Nations since its founding in 1945.

Annan said Tuesday he would stay on as UN chief and focus on reform during his final two years.

Danforth said U.S. support for a thorough oil-for-food investigation had been misinterpreted as a lack of confidence in Annan and a desire for his resignation. He said he was asked to clarify the United States supported the secretary general and did not want him to step down...

... Annan appointed former U.S. Federal Reserve (news - web sites) chairman Paul Volcker to lead an independent inquiry of the oil-for-food program and turned over all UN documents. Coleman, who is leading one of five U.S. congressional investigations, has accused Annan of not helping his inquiry.

The secretary general said it's up to Volcker, who controls the UN material and Volcker said he will only release documents with his reports. The first is due in January and a final report is expected in mid-2005."


Round and round and round it goes, and where it stops, nobody knows...

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Boab
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 03:01 AM

Not that I like to see NATO taking a hand in ANYTHING other than the redundant purpose for which it was originally formed, why, I wonder, is the US trying so hard to get around the NATO nations which opposed the Iraq aggression in order to involve them in the furtherance of the "new Iraqi democracy"? Perhaps to get everone to seem finally to be in some kind of agreement with the concoction of tripe which began the "war"? I would approve the involvement of ANY organisation which appears to have the will and the power to restore sovereignty to the Iraqi nation, and to recompense the people of that sad country for the horrors they have been through [and are still going through]. Nato has the strenght to do just that; but that is not the aim here. It is to gain an end which profits the "coalition" supremos, and for no other reason. The thought that full co-operation with the UN might accomplish a solution which is just and fair I believe is giving the power-grabbers the collywobbles. They have infinitely more power over Nato. Watch what happens next----

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 11:22 PM

http://www.ericmargolis.com/archives/2004/08/no_time_for_a_c.php

Here is an article telling you exactly why the U.S. is armed rebels in Sudan. As usual, oil is involved.

In desperation, the Sudanese govt. turned to the Janjaweed militia to quell the rebellion. The settlers were caught in the crossfire. Both the rebels and the Janjaweed are responsible for atrocities. This is not a 'race war' or a 'religious war'. It is a rebellion fuelled by the U.S. to overthrow the Sudanese govt. who is not pro-American.

As usual, it is innocent civilians who are dying. Children are kidnapped and used as soldiers. Women are being raped. Men are being slaughtered.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 12:44 AM

sorry, dianavan. check the bio- he has had an article aired on Fox - Can't possibly be a valid source of information.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 01:35 AM

CIA has reportedly supplied arms and money to Darfur's rebels

So this sentence by a nobody which does not confirm anything and has to be couched with the term "reportedly" outweighs the detailed information by Amnesty International which confirms and names all of the countrys that are supplying the rebels?

That is not reasoning. That is clutching at straws in order to discredit the US.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 02:17 AM

The US discredited itself when it enter Iraq without UN sanction, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 02:35 AM

Eric Margolis is hardly a nobody. He is, however, a respected journalist who is not a big fan of the Bush administration. You can read more of his perspective on many issues by googling his name.

I agree that Amnesty International is a credible source and, in fact, I support their work and do rely on their honesty for factual information.

The sources of arms and ammunition supplied to the Sudanese govt. is well documented. The source of military supplies and training to the rebels is not. Garang, is indeed, backed by American interest groups including American Christian organizations.

I am not condoning the actions of the govt. of Sudan. I am simply trying to point out that the U.S. is adding fuel to the fire.

The people of the Sudan are, as stated previously, caught in the cross fire of groups that are more interested in oil than human lives.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 02:36 AM

brucie,

Canada discredited itself when it refused to stop exporting asbestos to the third world....

The UN discredited itself when it refused to take effective action for 13 years in Iraq.

France discredited itself when it violated the terms of the UN sanctions and provided Iraq with prohibited material.

IMO...

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 02:49 AM

Yippee.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:34 AM

Beardedbruce:

Eureka. I have discovered our difficulty. I know what you posted is true and wrong. You don't know what I posted is right. Can't say much except that's too bad, buddy.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:38 AM

how is my post wrong, if yours is not also wrong?

Or do you believe that you have divine guidance that the rest of us are prevented from having?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:43 AM

Poorly stated on my part--meaning of wrong.

I will rephrase: I know what you posted is true and wrong (for those countries and organizations to have done). You seem not to see that about my post.

"Or do you believe that you have divine guidance that the rest of us are prevented from having?" Your snottiness with this remark was uncalled for.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:44 AM

bb - What you say may or may not be true but is definitely wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:50 AM

dianavan,

How is wrong? You are not Amos, or God- You can't just make a statement and expect it to be accepted without some justification.


brucie

You are correct, I did misinterpret it: thus my comment. I found your use of right and wrong in this context to be a judgemental statement. Given that you agree that the UN, Canada, and France have been discredited, had I understood your intent I would not have made the comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:52 AM

No problem, bb. We always have these tiffs. Have a good evening. I gotta get.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:57 AM

brucie,

One can make a valid argument that the resolution giving Saddam ONE last chance to comply with the UN resolutions WAS a UN sanction of US actions. I think that this is something that is in the gray area, but IMO, the US HAD the UN sanction to resolve the problem when the security council refuded to act in accordance with it's own resolution.

In regards to Sudan, it is my opinion that the US is at least as creditable as the EU or the UN.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:58 AM

and this might be 200

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 04:49 AM

beardedbruce - You said,

"Canada discredited itself when it refused to stop exporting asbestos to the third world....

The UN discredited itself when it refused to take effective action for 13 years in Iraq.

France discredited itself when it violated the terms of the UN sanctions and provided Iraq with prohibited material"


I said this was wrong. I mean it is the wrong thing to do (if it is indeed true, which it may not be).

Are you saying it was the right thing to do?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 04:54 AM

dianavan,

see my comment to brucie...

What I SAID was correct- what the countries DID was wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 12:02 PM

IMO, the US HAD the UN sanction to resolve the problem when the security council refuded to act in accordance with it's own resolution.

The UN didn't refuse to act in accordance with the UN resolution. The UN was acting very much in accordance with the resolution, which stated quite clearly that the goal of the resolution was UN inspections in Iraq, which were proceeding according to plan at the time that the US intervened and stopped them, thus violating the UN resolution. We've been over this before.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 06:28 PM

CarolC

Yes, we have been over it, and disagree about it. That is a side issue here.

Unless I am not entitled to my own opinion...

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 09:16 PM

Opinion is one thing, beardedbruce, facts are another. You can have an opinion on whether or not the US was justified in violating the UN resolution, but the language of the resolution itself is quite clear in what it does and does not do, what it does or does not authorize, and what would constitute "act(ing) in accordance with (the) resolution". The resolution quite clearly states that it's purpose was to establish and to enforce UN inspections in Iraq. Those inspecions were ongoing (meaning that the UN was enforcing its resolution) at the time that the US kicked the UN inspectors out of Iraq (thus violating the resolution) just prior to invading Iraq (another violation of the very specificly worded resolution).

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 09:20 PM

Carol C. is right bb. You are entitled to you opinion but nobody will listen when it is obviously misinformed.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 09:22 PM

As I said before, it also states that this was the last chance before action would be taken, and the UN declared Saddam to be non-compliant. What part of that don't you understand?

SADDAM was in violation of the UN resolutions, and of the ceasefire- You cannot put that aside, regardless of what you want to think.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: freda underhill
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 09:28 PM

hey bb, havent heard you saying much about the Sudan lately..

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 09:31 PM

I thought that the UN was going to solve all the problems there, just like you liberals want...

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 09:34 PM

As I said before, it also states that this was the last chance before action would be taken, and the UN declared Saddam to be non-compliant. What part of that don't you understand?

The problem is not that I don't understand. The problem is that you have your facts wrong. The resolution declared Saddam to have been non-compliant prior to the passing of the resolution. The resolution and the resulting inspections were the remedy. At the time that the US kicked the UN inspectors out of Iraq, the UN itself was saying that Iraq was complying to their satisfaction with the inspectors. So he was not in violation of the resolution, the purpose of which was to establish and enforce UN inspections in Iraq, at that time. And by interfering in the ability of the UN to continue the inspections, and by not honoring the sovereignty and the boundaries of Iraq when the US invaded it, the US volated the resolution.

If by "violating the ceasefire), you are speaking of the Safwan ceasefire, that agreemen (which was never put on paper, and the contents of which were never made public), became obsolete shortly after the 1990 Gulf War.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 09:39 PM

Actually, I may be wrong about the Safwan ceasefire not being put on paper. But the contents of it were never made public.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 09:42 PM

The resolution in late 2001 was the one he was declared in non-compliance with- the LAST CHANCE. You keep talking about things after that.Try to get YOUR facts right.

We have a disagreement about the facts- perhaps you would care to review the actual resolutions, again?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 09:50 PM

The resolution in late 2001 was the one he was declared in non-compliance with- the LAST CHANCE. You keep talking about things after that.Try to get YOUR facts right.

First of all, please show me the wording in the resolution that specifies what the action should be that would be taken if Saddam didn't comply, and also the wording that authorizes the US to take such action.

Secondly, as I said before, at the time the US was declaring its intentions to invade Iraq, the UN inspectors specifically stated that they considered Saddam to be in compliance with that resolution to their satisfaction. That is why they wanted to continue with the inspections and they did not want the US to invade. I repeat: according to the UN, Saddam was complying with the resolution to the satisfaction of the UN.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 09:52 PM

please show me that statement- I decall them stating that the report he gave them, supposedly his last chance to come clean about his programs, was NOT in compliance- please show me where they say otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 09:56 PM

The resolution in late 2001 was the one he was declared in non-compliance with- the LAST CHANCE.

Unless by this statement you are suggesting that Saddam was in violation of the 2001 resolution prior to it being passed, which even someone as thickheaded as you ought to be able to figure out is impossible. You can't be in violation of a resolution that hasn't been passed yet. You can't be in violation of it until after it's been passed.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 09:57 PM

I'll work on it beardedbruce, but not to night.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 09:57 PM

Oops. *not tonight*

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 10:01 PM

Brilliant, carol. I thought that there was a resolution before the end of the year, and the US attack was in what, March?


I guess calanders work differently where you are...

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 12:27 AM

UNSC Resolution 1441 is the one Iraq would have been in violation of in this case. It was passed November 8, 2002. Here is a link to the resolution:

UNSC Resolution 1441

This resolution was for the purpose of establishing and maintaining a UN inspections process in Iraq. As of the time that the US decided to invade Iraq, the UN inspectors had stated that as far as they were concerned, Saddam was cooperating with the inspections process to their satisfaction, and they wanted to continue with the process because they determined that it was working. Under the terms of the resolution, it was a determination they had the authority to make. Under the terms of the resolution, the US did not have the authority to disrupt the inspections process, which is exactly what the US did when it kicked the UN inspectors out of Iraq and invaded that country.

I will look for documentation of the UN's position as I have described it above tomorrow, and I will post it when I have it.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 01:24 AM

D:

Show me where it says that Eric Margolis is a respected journalist any more than Mike Moore is. He makes his living from Bush bashing and feeds off of people full of hatred like you.

Show me where it says the the US supplied arms to the rebels other that where this hate monger says it is reported. Reported by whom when where and what did the US supply? You don't even have hearsay evidence.

The UN would not even be doing its window dressing attempts at dealing with Sudan if Colin Powell hadn't raised hell with the UN several times.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: ard mhacha
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 05:54 AM

Molotov take ir easy on those cocktails or you could finish up with a brain like George Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 02:59 PM

Eric Margolis is a columnist for the Toronto Sun and an international syndicated columnist and broadcaster. Somebody must respect him or he wouldn't have a job. Just because you don't respect him doesn't mean much.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 04:11 PM

Here you go, beardedbruce... Hans Blix, in his own words

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 06:42 PM

Iraq, with a highly developed administrative system, should be able to provide more documentary evidence about its proscribed weapons programmes. Only a few new such documents have come to light so far and been handed over since we began inspections. It was a disappointment that Iraq's Declaration of 7 December did not bring new documentary evidence. I hope that efforts in this respect, including the appointment of a governmental commission, will give significant results. When proscribed items are deemed unaccounted for it is above all credible accounts that is needed – or the proscribed items, if they exist.


The declaration of 7 December was the statement in non-compliance with the UN resolution. Iraq's LAST ( do you understand what that means) chance to come clean on its prohibited programs.

Thank you for supporting MY point- The US WAS justified in invading Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 06:58 PM

D: evidently you respect him more than Amnesty International. And because he is from Canada he is biased against America. Lots of idiots have jobs. Some have to feed on hatred to get and keep a job.

I am still waiting for the "reportedly" information about what the US supplied, when, where and how. Where is the report?

I see Hans Blix provided a list of the WMDs that did not exist in Iraq.

U.N. Oil for Food Scandal: The Marc Rich Connection
Written by Joe Mariani
Sunday, December 12, 2004

       "To say that just before Bill Clinton left office in January 2001 he exercised his privilege of granting presidential pardons is something of an understatement. With 176 criminals given pardons and commuted sentences in a single day, one might envision an "exercise" as frenetic as Richard Simmons on crack cocaine and Jolt Cola.

       Among the criminals Clinton pardoned was his own brother Roger, who had been convicted of drug trafficking. Susan McDougal, who was linked to the Clintons through the Whitewater scandal, also received a pardon. So did another Whitewater aide, Stephen Smith, though he said he didn't want one. Many of the pardoned criminals had personal connections to Clinton or had donated money to the Clintons' campaigns. Clinton pardoned Jack Williams, for instance, who had been convicted of making false statements to Federal agents. Williams was a lobbyist for Tyson Foods, the company in which Hillary Clinton invested $1,000 and miraculously made $100,000 in a single year. Another last-minute pardon recipient was Tansukhlal Bhatka, who had been convicted of tax evasion. Bhatka not only gave $5,000 to Hillary's Senate campaign, he hired her brother Hugh to lobby for his pardon. Hugh Rodham worked as a "consultant" to help other criminals gain pardons as well. For instance, Rodham received $245,000 in "consultant fees" from Allen and Vonna Jo Gregory, who had been convicted of bank fraud, but they had trouble describing his duties to Federal prosecutors when asked....

And, as it turns out, the Iraqi dictator could not have done it without the help of Marc Rich or the blatant disregard of U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan.

       Shipping records show that just a month after receiving Clinton's pardon, Rich was acting as a middleman for some of Saddam Hussein's illegal oil deals. In their zeal to shift the blame for the scandal from U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and his son as well as influential figures in France, Germany, Russia, and China, the "mainstream" media seems to be insinuating that Americans were somehow really culpable. ABC news, for instance, presented the Marc Rich connection in a story entitled, "Americans' Role Eyed in U.N. Oil Scandal." Los Angeles Times columnist James Traub characterizes those investigating the OFF fraud as "a right-wing mob" of "vigilantes," while Annan is "the gentle and generally accommodating leader of the United Nations." Traub's real culprit is, of course, the U.S. government, which "had dozens of people monitoring the contracts.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 07:22 PM

Americans' Role Eyed in U.N. Oil Scandal

"Dec. 1, 2004 — Former American fugitive Marc Rich was a middleman for several of Iraq's suspect oil deals in February 2001, just one month after his pardon from President Clinton, according to oil industry shipping records obtained by ABC News."

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 08:59 PM

Nice try, beardedbruce... no cigar. Mine is dated, March, 2003 (bet you didn't even bother to read it). Much more up to date than the stuff you're providing. As I said before (and as you have consistantly failed to acknowlege), at the time that the US was making the decision to attack Iraq, the UN inspectors were recommending continuation of the inspections process, not an invasion. And it was their call to make. It was not the US's call to make.

At any rate, the original point of yours that I have disputed is whether or not the UN was enforcing its resolutions. The report from Dr. Blix states that not only was the UN inspections team enforcing the mandate of resolution 1441, it was also enforcing the mandate of several other resolutions at the same time. And you would know that if you had read the link I posted for the report from Dr. Blix.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 09:03 PM

At the time that the US was planning the invasion, the UN inspectors HAD ALREADY STATED that Saddam was in non-compliance with the resolution. THERE WAS A DATE THAT HE DID NOT MEET! If you send in your mortgage three months late, I guess you would say that WAS OK.

I read it- all of it- DID YOU?




So, is this enough hijacking of the thread on Annan's incompetence in dealing with Sudan?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 09:12 PM

Yes I read all of it. The inspectors were recommending that the inspections process continue. They were the ones who had the authority to make that determination. They made it based on the fact that although Saddam's compliance wasn't the model of perfection, the progress that was being made was enough to render an invasion (at that time), unnecessary. An unnessary invasion is a heinous waste of human life. A point that you seem unable to appreciate. If the US decides to invade a country, killing tens of thousands of its civilians in the process, for reasons that are deemed unnecessary by the people in the field who were in a position to know, that is a criminal act, and certainly ranks right up there with some of the worst acts committed by Saddam himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 09:28 PM

Bush and beardedbruce think they know better than the international community. Bush has something to gain. Whats in it for you bb?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 09:34 PM

THREE - names dates postings within this thread has been acknowledged and posted

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 09:35 PM

dianavan-

The international community that was providing Saddam with material PROHIBITED by the UN resolutions? The International community making money off the suffering of the Iraqi people?

Or do you mean Canada, who continues to export asbestos to the third world, just to make money? I guess that is ok, as long as you can blame the US for something.

CarolC,

If the international community had not been telling Saddam that he could get away with whatever he wanted, he MIGHT have thought about complying with the resolutions- and no invasion would have been needed. I guess that makes enough innocent blood on YOU and those like you that make excuses for his violation of international law.

More blood than I can see on the US.

But I guess you can't bother seeing any point of view that might mean you were wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 09:47 PM

I'm not so sure the thousands of Iraqis and Americans that have been killed and displaced since the invasion would agree with you. There is no justification for the murder and the atrocities that have been committed because you think you are right.

War is not the answer!

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 09:55 PM

Address the facts, dianavan-

WOULD the US have gone to war if Saddam had complied with the UN resolutions?

Would he have been more likely to comply if the "international community" had not given him every reason to think that he could get away with non-compliance?

Goive me honest answers to that- THEN tell me what the answer would have been if there had been as much demand for Saddam to comply as there was for the US to not take any action.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 09:58 PM

War was not the answer- until the "international community" told Saddam that he could do as he liked without any action- THEN it became the answer selected by the situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 10:01 PM

sorry- sent before done...

War was not the answer- COMPLIANCE was. But since the international community refused to hold Saddam accountable, since that might endanger their profits, compliance was not possible. Thus, WAR- which those who told Saddam he need not worry about any actions to force him to comply are in part responsible for.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 10:29 PM

Sorry, bb, you will never convince me that the international community was not taking action when, the UN inspectors were recommending continuation of the inspections process, not an invasion.

It was the U.S. who unilaterally decided to invade. It was not their call. Of course now they want the international community to go in and clean up the mess they made. They are BEGGING for U.N. involvement.

For the sake of the Iraqi people, the international community will help re-build Iraq - not because the U.S. was right.

The U.S. is biting its own flesh and the world knows it.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 10:33 PM

I disagree with your assessment. This whole thread is about how the UN was more interested in continuing their profits, at the cost of innocent lives, than in any resolution of the problem. In Iraq, or Sudan- just like Bosnia, Rwanda, Cambodia...

So what answers do you have to my questions?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 10:47 PM

If the international community had not been telling Saddam that he could get away with whatever he wanted, he MIGHT have thought about complying with the resolutions- and no invasion would have been needed. I guess that makes enough innocent blood on YOU and those like you that make excuses for his violation of international law.


According to Dr. Blix, Saddam was complying to the satisfaction of the UN inspectors, and no invasion was necessary at that time. That puts the blood of innocents on YOU and those like you.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 10:50 PM

Sorry CarolC, that was after the LAST deadline. He had his chance, and those like you who helped him to think he did not need to comply share the blood with him.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 10:56 PM

Sorry CarolC, that was after the LAST deadline. He had his chance, and those like you who helped him to think he did not need to comply share the blood with him.

Who the hell cares whether or not it was after the last deadline, if using means other than force can save innocent lives? He was complying as of the last report from Dr. Blix. That should be enough to justify continuing the inspections.

To suggest that because Saddam didn't do everything the big and powerful US wanted him to exactly when they wanted him to do it justifies killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians as well as over a thousand US military personnel is just insane. And if you believe it yourself, you are criminally insane.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 11:05 PM

No, Carol,

YOU are insane, if you cannot see that Saddam was doing what he had been doing for the last 13 years. He would give some small indication of compliance, then go back on his obligations as soon as the "International Comunnity" took enough bribes to let the innocents continue to die.

But I guess that you will never understand. Too bad- you seem like a caring person...

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 11:15 PM

YOU are insane, if you cannot see that Saddam was doing what he had been doing for the last 13 years. He would give some small indication of compliance, then go back on his obligations as soon as the "International Comunnity" took enough bribes to let the innocents continue to die.

beardedbruce, most of the atrocities that Saddam committed, he committed at the behest of the United States, who used his dictatorship as a client state for many years. The United States is responsible for his rise to power. The only reason the US decided to take him out is because he stopped killing on behalf of the US and started killing on behalf of his own interests. If you really cared about innocent lives, you would be more concerned with the propensity of the United States to kill (or get someone else to kill on their behalf) for things like oil and world domination, than whether or not someone jumps quickly enough when the US tells them to.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 11:20 PM

Carol,

I am more concerned over the people who would rather find a way to blame the US for the problems of the world than to do anything to make the world a better place. This thread is about the INACTION of the UN in Sudan, and Annan's use of his position toenrich himself and his family at the cost of innocent lives. And you seem to be supporting him, by denying that there is any problem other than the US actions in the world. Sorry, I do not agree with you.

And what about answers to my earlier questions?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 01:32 AM

I am more concerned over the people who would rather find a way to blame the US for the problems of the world than to do anything to make the world a better place.

You can't do one without also doing the other, beardedbruce. The US is responsible for a large share of the chaos in the world, and has been for a long time. If we don't do something to correct this, things will just keep getting worse, and they will never get any better. You can't fix the world's problems by throwing the baby out with the bathwater as you and others are trying to do with the UN. The UN needs to be fixed, not destroyed.

The world needs a democratic international body that fairly represents all of the people and nations of the world. As long as the US sees itself as the sole proprietor of the world and its resources, many many more innocent civilians will be killed so people in the US can accumulate more money and more power.

And if you are so concerned with the killing of innocent civilians in Sudan, why weren't you raising the alarm earlier when the same thing was happening to innocent civilians in the southern part of Sudan? Why have you only just recently got all righteously indignant about the killing of innocent civilians in Sudan when that very thing has been going on there for decades?

The reason is because the Western press wasn't bringing it to your attention in the way it is now. And their reasons for waiting until now to make a big stink about it have nothing whatever to do with human rights. You're a fair-weather human rights activist. You only advocate for it when the people who feed you your opinions need you to in order to promote an agenda that has nothing whatever to do with human rights.

And I guess you didn't get the memo from Pres. Bush about how you're supposed to support Kofi Annan now. It's in one of my earlier posts to this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 09:27 PM

bb - If the United Nations is so ineffective, why is the U.S. sucking up to them at the present time?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 10:07 PM

Uninformed argumentative women:

Several Comgressmen want Kofi Annan out:
Many call for Kofi Annan's resignation

Bush does not:
The Bush administration expressed confidence in UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan on Thursday and said he should stay in office

A: You can bitch because the two do not agree.
B: you can bitch because Bush is wrong.
C: You can bitch because Congress is wrong.
D: You can always find something to bitch and whine about in any situation which seems to be the major role of women.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 10:12 PM

Troll alert

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 10:22 PM

( ...either that, or Molotov is resorting to the usual lame sort of female bashing that men with no balls use when they know they are losing an argument with a woman)

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 12:59 AM

While we are sidetracked on the legality of the Iraq invasion and womens inability to reason, there was an interview last night on PBS between Charlie Rose and the President of Iraq, Ghazi al-Yawer.

I do not have any transcripts to link to but he had nothing bad to say about the invasion other than the US made a mistake in not using the existing army to control Iraq after the invasion. Of course the press uses this statement as an excuse for the headline "Iraqi leader attacks US 'errors' "

He said "What was done in Iraq had to be done for the benefit of the surrounding countries and Europe." as near as I can remember. The press does not mention this.

He also said that the things you hear about Iraqis hating America are not true. They are the product of a hostile press. The majority of Iraqis are optimistic and want the US to stay.

He is a Sunni Arab and business man educated in the US. He was not appointed by the US. he and Adnan Pachachi, another Suni were nominated and they sort of batted the position back and forth between them until it stuck with al-Yawer.

Before you start badmouthing Ghazi al-Yawer and calling me stupid, watch the program.

Iraq's Al-Yawar on Outlook for Country: Charlie Rose

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Bunky:
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 01:35 AM

Glenn Reynolds links to a Democratic Leadership Council article calling for Kofi Annan's resignation. It has to be done they argue, for the good of the United Nations.

Unfortunately, the United Nations' credibility has been steadily eroded by its own misdeeds, with a burgeoning scandal over its incompetent and sometimes corrupt management of the Iraq oil-for-food program being the most damaging example. .... But mismanagement, corruption, and manipulation of the program by Saddam Hussein allowed his regime to amass at least $21 billion outside of the United Nations' control, with the great bulk of that sum -- $17.3 billion -- pilfered between 1997 and 2003 on the secretary general's watch. In effect, the United Nations colluded in Saddam's successful evasion of U.N. sanctions. The most damning charge so far -- that a former chief of the oil-for-food program, Benon Sevan, accepted bribes from Saddam's regime -- was made in October by former U.N. weapons inspector Charles A. Duelfer, who led a Senate investigation into the scandal.

This recital of Oil-for-Food sleaze, which is old news to many in the blogosphere, lays the premise for the following conclusion: Kofi must go so the UN can stay.

As we argued last week, one of America's most urgent foreign policy needs is to retool international organizations and traditional alliances to provide collective security against the global threat of jihadist terrorism. The United Nations can and should be a central part of this new collective security system, but only if the organization is systematically reformed to serve that purpose.

This is a non-sequitur if ever there was one. Kofi Annan's accession to the post was greeted with relief by those who felt he would be an improvement on Boutros Boutros Ghali. In the beginning Boutros Ghali had to leave and Kofi Annan had to be admitted so that the United Nations could be saved. PBS recalls:

In November 1996, Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali's bid for reappointment was vetoed by the United States. Clinton officials said that the secretary-general was not as focused on reform as they deemed necessary. They said it would be hard to persuade a Republican-led Congress to pay off America's $1.45 billion in unpaid U.N. dues as long as Boutros-Ghali was at the helm. Because it is an informal tradition that a region of the world gets two terms as secretary-general, the Organization of African Unity had a short time to suggest candidate. After weeks of rancorous debate among the Security Council members, the U.N. General Assembly agreed upon Kofi Annan as Boutros-Ghali's replacement.

Annan was the the product and not the originator of a dysfunctional organization. This account of Annan's contest against his rival Amara Essy, described on a University of Connecticut website exudes something of the flavor of Byzantium.

In office, Boutros-Ghali proved to be an assertive, sometimes acerbic secretary-general who often rankled some members, especially the United States. President Clinton branded the secretary-general as ineffective and claimed that if he remained, it would be impossible to persuade Congress to appropriate funds for the UN. For these and other reasons, Washington, in effect, vetoed a second tern for Boutros-Ghali.

Since most recent secretaries-general have served two terms, the African countries felt that it was still their "turn," and the names of potential African candidates began to circulate. The process in the Security Council involved a search for consensus that Italy's representative likened to selecting a pope. The only difference, said the ambassador, was that in the UN "if you stare at the ceiling, there are no frescoes by Michelangelo to inspire you." In a series of straw votes, two names emerged: Kofi Annan, a career UN diplomat from Ghana, and Amara Essy, the foreign minister of the Ivory Coast. Annan was favored by the United States. He had a reputation as a capable and moderate diplomat and administrator, and his personal history (a B.A. degree in economics from Macalaster College in St. Paul, Minnesota, and a master's degree in management from MIT) helped assuage Washington's concern that a secretary-general from black Africa might prove too radical. Annan is married to Nane Lagergren, a Swedish lawyer, who is a niece of Raoul Wallenberg, the heroic Swedish diplomat noted for trying to save Jewish lives during World War II.

France was the primary supporter of Essy, based on the fact that he spoke fluent French (but only halting English), had earned his law degree from Poitiers University in France, and came from a former French colony. The French threatened initially to veto Annan, but the American and British indicated they would veto Essy. In the end, with Annan clearly ahead in the straw votes, and given that he speaks at least some French, France gave way.

Annan was not a rogue UN bureaucrat, as Benon Sevan proves. He is perfectly representative of the system. It may be argued that certain Great Powers on the Security Council were the true ringleaders of the secret rearmament of Saddam; it may even be conceded that the United States was a willing participant in the wheeling and dealing that constructed the labyrinthine palace on the East River. But it cannot be maintained, as the Democratic Leadership Council does that "America's most urgent foreign policy needs is to retool international organizations and traditional alliances to provide collective security against the global threat of jihadist terrorism. The United Nations can and should be a central part of this new collective security system". Corruption at the United Nations was only tolerable for so long as it did nothing of consequence. But making it the central plank of international security would be tantamount to swallowing a box of razor blades and washing it down with sulfuric acid. The UN: into playschool or into the East River.

The Worm Orobouros
The indispensable Glenn Reynolds links to breaking aspects of the UN story. The first of course, is the DLC's reduction of their initial demand that Kofi Annan resign to merely stepping aside -- recusing himself in effect, from any participation in the Oil-for-Food investigation -- which should be a given anyway. But the stress gauge continued to creep up when Human Rights Watch announced the obvious, that the UN Human Rights Committee is dominated by a choice cast of villains; that the fox is charge of the henhouse.

Groups such as Human Rights Watch have been complaining about the U.N. commission's membership problem for years. The focus of the abusive governments on the commission, Human Rights Watch warns, is on "minimizing the exposure of their own human rights record rather than on stigmatizing the worst human rights violations in the world and devising methods to bring about effective responses to these abuses." ... No one would suggest seating Jean-Claude Duvalier and Gen. Augusto Pinochet on the International Criminal Court, so why put the countries that are their equivalents on the U.N.'s main human rights body?

Why? Because it's the UN, a place where the normal laws of gravity are inverted, everyone is immune from everything, where nothing works yet everything is beyond reproach. That's why. Having grasped that one essential fact it is necessary to accept the corollary. Neither the departure of Kofi Annan nor his replacement will alter the strange physics of the place which arises from the first-class funding of third-rate causes of the worst possible sort. If that is the definition of Oil-for-Food it is also the definition of the United Nations.

One of the shadow costs of an obsession with the United Nations is the preemptive dismissal of diplomatic structures which have historically worked. The recent crisis in the Ukraine was resolved without the United Nations. Someone may eventually remember that the diplomatic structures which defeated Hitler predated the UN. When one considers the diplomatic record of the 20th century the really striking thing is how little of consequence took place under the Baby Blue flag. Of the 50 odd wars that took place after 1945, including such humdingers as the Iraq-Iran War, the Chinese-Indian confrontations, the invasion of Tibet, etc. only two -- Korea 1950 and Kuwait 1991 -- were successfully met by collective UN action. To a large extent the UN's case for its own existence is its own existence. It's a circular argument and the strongest one it has.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 01:42 AM

CC: You haven't presented an argument to win or loose yet. Just a bunch of "if this is that then why is that this" drivel. When are you going to present some facts?

Do you like Kofi Annan or not and if so why?

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 01:59 AM

It seems the Ghazi al-Yawer says whatever is advantageous for him to say at the time.

"We blame the United States 100% for the security in Iraq [...] They occupied the country, disbanded the security agencies and for 10 months left Iraq's borders open for anyone to come in without a visa or even a passport." - said whilst President of the Governing Council.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 02:16 AM

In the same article Iraq Council Delays Choosing New Leader Monday, May 31, 2004 ( Before Al-Yawer was President )


"Al-Yawer, who 45, also has denounced violence against American and other coalition forces.

On the other hand, Pachachi, who favors Western attire, has said foreign troops must remain in Iraq until the violence is quelled and the army and police are fully prepared to protect the nation."

M

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 11:21 AM

I don't have an opinion about Kofi Annan at this time, Molotov. I'm not anywhere near as gullible as you.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 01:36 PM

Yes I agree. He is not just a an asshole but he is a theif and a Bastard.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 01:39 PM

It's so refreshing to get a considered opinion every now and then.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: GUEST,Molotov
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 08:40 AM

What the fuck is the UN doing about it's own findings?

Kofi Annan is a miserable failure:

UNICEF (the UN Children's Fund) estimates that 200,000 children from West and Central Africa are sold into slavery each year.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/slavery1.html

"Slave Trading on Africa's West Coast

The slave trade in Africa was officially banned in the early 1880s, but forced labor continues to be practiced in West and Central Africa today. UNICEF estimates that 200,000 children from this region are sold into slavery each year. Many of these children are from Benin and Togo, and are sold into the domestic, agricultural, and sex industries of wealthier, neighboring countries such as Nigeria and Gabon.
        
The most recent incident involved the MV Etireno, which was refused from ports in Gabon and Cameroon. When the ship reached Cotonou, Benin, in April, 2001, police began an investigation of the captain and crew. More adults than children were believed to be aboard.
Chattel slavery in Sudan

The enslavement of the Dinkas in southern Sudan may be the most horrific and well-known example of contemporary slavery. According to 1993 U.S. State Department estimates, up to 90,000 blacks are owned by North African Arabs, and often sold as property in a thriving slave trade for as little as $15 per human being.
"There he found several Dinka men hobbling, their Achilles tendons cut because they refused to become Muslims."        

Animist tribes in southern Sudan are frequently invaded by Arab militias from the North, who kill the men and enslave the women and children. The Arabs consider it a traditional right to enslave southerners, and to own chattel slaves (slaves owned as personal property).

Physical mutilation is practiced upon these slaves not only to prevent escape, but to enforce the owners' ideologies. According to an ASI report: "Kon, a thirteen-year-old Dinka boy, was abducted by Arab nomads and taken to a merchant's house. There he found several Dinka men hobbling, their Achilles tendons cut because they refused to become Muslims. Threatened with the same treatment the boy converted."

In a detailed article by Charles Jacobs for the American Anti-Slavery Group (ASI), Jacobs recounts how a 10-year-old child was taken in a raid on her village in southern Sudan, and branded by her master with a hot iron pot."

Molotov

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan is an arrogant asshole
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 01:15 AM

Kofi Annan is responsible for ending slavery? Thats a pretty big responsibility for just one guy. Maybe the U.S. could withdraw from Iraq and do something worthwhile like take some action on their own findings about international slavery. Or maybe they could ask the U.N. to help them take action to end slavery.

Oops - Thats right - They're too busy blocking access to hospitals, markets and transportation routes to do anything more than contribute to the misery of the people in Iraq.

and by the way - Did you hear the latest? The U.S. knew about kickbacks for Iraqi oil and did nothing to stop it and then had the audacity to claim that oil for food was not working. But heh - that guy from Texas made a pretty penny. So did the Brit.