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Again, nothing about American folk music
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Subject: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Once Famous Date: 14 Nov 04 - 09:00 PM I've brought this up before and feel the need to again. There is virtually nothing right now in the music threads relating to American folk music or American folk musicians. Mudcat continues to transcend into a site more for the British folk music scene. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Amos Date: 14 Nov 04 - 09:12 PM At the moment I have a Lyrics Request in for an American ballad, which Bob Deckman is helping me with. Why not remedy the situation as you see it, Martin? A |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Leadfingers Date: 14 Nov 04 - 09:16 PM Surely a forum like this is dependant on what interests the members (and guests) at any particular time . And perhaps Britain has a more vibrant folk scene than the USA does at present ! |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Peace Date: 14 Nov 04 - 09:17 PM What's the ballad, Amos? |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 14 Nov 04 - 10:17 PM Dang, Martin (as Bobert would say,) you got that right. For whatever reasons, the majority of music threads are about English folk songs and events. That used to bother me, until I figured that the number of particular types of threads just reflect the make-up of Mudcat, and Catters interests. That's awright with me. Now, Martin, my old man, what you and I and Bobert and others need to do is to start some Amurican threads that don't have Bush in the title. Seems like Amuricans just grouse about politics and English folks talk about music. (Don't you just love over-generalizations?) If you scroll down a little, Martin, you will find a new thread that was started in honor of you and Leadfingers. Hands across the waters. It's titled Amurican Harmonies. Maybe you can share some observations about harmonies in bluegrass and how they differ from harmonies in old-time bands like Charlie Poole and the North Carolina Ramblers. 100% Amurican, Jerry |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 14 Nov 04 - 10:30 PM Martin - I agree
A seperate part of the page - that stays active for a week - up at the top of everything else. A third division of the same thing.
Most American's appear to be more involved in other things - and check in occasionally - some excellent folk-music topics are lost in the chatter.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: chris nightbird childs Date: 14 Nov 04 - 10:50 PM Jerry is absolutely right when he says that Americans talk politics and the English talk about music. If some of you have forgotten this IS a music forum. Specifically Folk Music, which there is plenty of in the States, but as usual, some people forget about the music in there own here. Politics, and War, etc. are thrown at Americans by the Media all their lives, and this could be blinding to some that don't realize that there is more to life than what they see on T.V... |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: artbrooks Date: 14 Nov 04 - 10:51 PM Well, perhaps I'm counting wrong, but it seems to me that, as I write this, at least half of the threads in the top fifteen or so that are about music (rather than things like conquering stage fright) are about "American" music (whatever that is). |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: RWilhelm Date: 15 Nov 04 - 12:59 AM Martin, I have been a member of Mudcat for at least six years and I have to say that American folk music has always been well represented. You didn't specify; what are you interested in, ballads, old-timey, blues, ragtime, folk-boom, folk-rock, singer-songwriter? Let me know and I will point you to the threads. It's just a fact that, for obvious reasons, there is more English folk music than American. English folk music is probably the largest single influence on American folk. You can't talk about American folk music very long without referencing the British Isles. By the late nineteenth century the influences were going both ways. Mudcat is, I'm sure, the largest single repository of information on the folk music of England, Ireland, Scotland, Australia, and America, because they cannot be separated. If you want to talk about American folk music, start a thread. I guarantee you will get discussion of American music. Earl |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Ellenpoly Date: 15 Nov 04 - 01:14 AM Chris, please not to forget that much of American folk music is BASED on politics. Not all, as there are fine songs about love and whaling as well (just joking, folks, I'm out of my depths here already) but it might explain why the Yanks go off so often onto other aspects of life, especially the political ones. They are related, but sometimes in a roundabout way. I'm always wishing someone will get creative (and they do on occasion here, as with the Jessica thread) and turn whatever the subject is, into a good protest (or otherwise) song. The best way to be sure the subject is continually covered is by being one of the those who brings it up, yes? ..xx..e |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Nerd Date: 15 Nov 04 - 01:36 AM At this moment the top 5 threads are about American music. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: chris nightbird childs Date: 15 Nov 04 - 03:33 AM Good, that's very good. I've done my part then... : ) |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: George Papavgeris Date: 15 Nov 04 - 03:58 AM And there's the Songlinks II project also... |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Big Al Whittle Date: 15 Nov 04 - 04:04 AM I rather agree with Martin. Its hard to get a picture of the grassroots scene over there from Mudcat. Come on you yanks, spill the beans - what's happening....... |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: GUEST Date: 15 Nov 04 - 04:11 AM Time might be an element in what is at the top of the page. I've noticed that few are awake when I am. Despite what the posting time shown is, it is 10.10pm here in NZ. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: GUEST Date: 15 Nov 04 - 04:14 AM That last guest is Gurney. Spybot or Adaware seems to have removed my Cookie. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: George Papavgeris Date: 15 Nov 04 - 06:56 AM So, come on Ammies, get posting. Though I have to admit to a little private chuckle when I saw the first post. Martin, who regularly calls other whingers, whingeing himself! (Don't refute it, Martin mate, your sentence about "Mudcat transcending into a site more for the British folk music scene" kinda gives it away). But he's right nevertheless. SO get posting. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: GUEST,Linael Date: 15 Nov 04 - 07:30 AM Or beg the Admins for Regional Sections Linael |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Dave Bryant Date: 15 Nov 04 - 07:46 AM Perhaps one of the reasons that there seems to be more British threads than American is that the UK folk scene (thanks to it's relative geological concentration) tends to be more tightly knit than the US one. Most UK Catters know quite a lot of others and therefore we tend to use the cat as way of talking to friends - that's one of the reasons that we often seem to be so rude to each other - it's usually rather "tongue in the cheek". Most American catters who come over here are very surprised at just how many british catters they end up meeating. Anyway Americans, the balls in your court - make more postings - don't complain at the fact that we tend to enjoy using this wonderful facility that Max has provided us with. Also remember that folk music is international and that plenty of "American Music" has it's roots in music from the UK and other parts of the world. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:02 AM I think there's also a difference in what US and UK people perceive as 'Folk'. I gather that many UK folk-enthusiasts may not regard, for instance, Emmylou Harris as a folk artiste because she's viewed here as 'Country' (which seems to be like garlic to a vampire where many UK folkies are concerned - not by me though, I hasten to add!), whereas people in the US might do. From that aspect, UK members might not join in a US thread simply because they don't know the artistes being discussed, or don't regard them as pukka folk-artistes?? Maybe, perhaps?? |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Maryrrf Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:55 AM Um, am I missing something or is thread content dependent upon what members themselves post???? No point in criticizing Mudcat for not having more American threads - why not just post some???? |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 15 Nov 04 - 09:01 AM I've started a fair share of threads in the music section over the last couple of years, and I'd guess that more than half aren't geographically focused... they'll be like the one I started on rhythm, or musical influences. The songwriting threads aren't specific to a country, and many other music threads are just about music. I started a thread in response to Martin's observation titled Amurican harmony, but I really wanted to hear from people about different types of harmony, American or otherwise. There certainly are more threads about events in England than America, and that's understandable. There was just a thread about the NOMAD festival here in Connecticut, and it's as remote to our Catters on the West Coast as it is to our English and Ozland friends. Threads like overcoming stage fright, and others currently running aren't American or English. They're human. Dang Jerry |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Wesley S Date: 15 Nov 04 - 11:15 AM Martin - I'm not sure, but I think you came to the Mudcat not long after Rick Fielding passed away. If you didn't know him Rick was Canadian and started some of the best threads about American music. If you look at some of the threads he started you'll find some very interesting information indeed. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Joe Offer Date: 15 Nov 04 - 11:31 AM I think that the best threads start with intelligent questions, backed up with a bit of intelligent information in the original post. It takes a bit to come up with something that's interesting to talk about. You can't just request lyrics that are already in the DT, and expect to start much of anything. The good threads come when the time is right. You can't push more emphasis on American music, just by demanding it. You have to actively involve yourself in a community exploration. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Grab Date: 15 Nov 04 - 11:35 AM To list the threads right now featuring American folk music:- So not many threads relating to American folk music, no... only about 20%! Hell, that's a national disgrace, ain't it?! ;-) IIRC, Mudcat's a discussion and information board. If no-one feels like discussing a subject that day, or if no-one needs information or has new information on a subject, that subject drops off the board for that day. Why is this a problem? Graham. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Once Famous Date: 15 Nov 04 - 12:09 PM Puhleeeeeeease. Many of these have either popped up after or as a result of my observation. The ones that were already here were at best, of little interest to many. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: GUEST Date: 15 Nov 04 - 12:29 PM For God sake someone shove the pacifier or dummy[uk] in this perpetual whingers gob. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: GUEST Date: 15 Nov 04 - 01:10 PM "The ones that were already here were at best, of little interest to many" ONLY in YOUR opinion - stop moaning and groaning and post something sensible yourself, and try and do it without swearing, now theirs a challenge you are not capable of completing. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 15 Nov 04 - 01:11 PM Re UK versus USA folk music, so many of the old "American" songs have their roots in songs from the UK (or other lands). One can't study one without the other. After his 'little interest' remark, one wonders what fragment of "American folk" Martin Gibson is interested in. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 15 Nov 04 - 01:36 PM What the hell is a "whinger"? Something from a hockey team? I think the last few months has seen an incredible amount of conversation in the U.S. about our election. This is not a Mudcat phenomenon, it happened all over. Hobbies such as folk music became secondary to most people. I do think that there is less interest in conversation about American folk music. I just attended NERFA (North East Regional Folk Alliance) where the singer-songwriters outnumbered the traditionalists. Good thing? Bad thing? It may not be a question that can be answered. I feel there is room for both. I don't want to drift into that seemlingly endless discussion of what can be done to make traditional music more appealing. Frankly, if it happens it will happen. One more sidenote - I did hear one great "label" this weekend. There was an amazing group called The Wiyos who do a really nice Americana presentation. Sort of old-timey, sort of vaudeville, sort of old-fashioned, sort of contemporary. They call their music "oldternative". Maybe the answer to Martins original quesiton is we should spend a little less time talking and more time playing! |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: GUEST,Martian Gibbon Date: 15 Nov 04 - 01:37 PM Well there you have it |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Chris Green Date: 15 Nov 04 - 01:40 PM "Whinger" pronounced with a soft G, from the verb "to whinge". OED defines it as "to complain persistently and peevishly." |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: MartinRyan Date: 15 Nov 04 - 02:04 PM One of the reasons I continue to hang about this place is because it so often shows up the links between American song/music and "British" (for which read Irish, Scottish and occasionally Welsh)music. The odd insight into the impact of German, Scandinavian and other roots is, if anything, even more welcome. The fun bit comes from picking up the reverse process! Regards |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 15 Nov 04 - 02:05 PM Must be a Brit thing! We have "whiners" here in the U.S.! |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Chris Green Date: 15 Nov 04 - 02:11 PM We have whiners too. "Whinger" is a rather more irritating whiner! |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 15 Nov 04 - 02:19 PM ... hence the extra "g"!! I like it! |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Steve-o Date: 15 Nov 04 - 02:21 PM I agree, MG- way too many whingers gobs going on here lately. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Joe Offer Date: 15 Nov 04 - 03:30 PM Martin - what kind of American folk does interest you? What threads have we had that typify what you think we should be doing? I will admit that Mudcat has a bias toward traditional music and against singer-songwriter stuff. Some have criticized us for that, but I'm sure glad we have our traditional bias. I would also say that we emphasize the songs and the performance of songs, and de-emphasize performers. I see there's a thread active now that complains that nobody ever talks about Leadbelly. If you look on the crosslinks at the top of that thread, you'll see we've talked about him an awful lot. When you direct your discussion toward performers, there's only so much you can say - but nonetheless, today's Leadbelly thread has turned into a pretty good discussion. In general, I'm satisfied with the mix of discussion topics here. Yeah, I suppose I'd like to see more of an American presence, but I think that's the kind of thing that comes and goes. But anyhow, Martin, I'd like to know what it is that you're looking for. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Big Al Whittle Date: 15 Nov 04 - 03:52 PM traditionally its us Brits that are the whingers. we go to Australia and become whingeing poms. This is a well observed and attested phenomena. Perhaps you are becoming a bit like us Martin .....a sort of trad influence. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Big Al Whittle Date: 15 Nov 04 - 03:55 PM we could teach you some songs if you like ....theres this one called the Dowie dens of Yarrow, that would keep you occupied for a while. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 15 Nov 04 - 04:25 PM Whinge is listed in Webster's Collegiate. A very old word (12th c) in English. Just didn't travel well across the Atlantic. Enough of this digression. Several of us have asked what folk music Martin would like to see discussed. ?? I would like to see more on the Spanish folk music of the American Southwest. I know not too many are interested in that, but I think it should be included here. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Grab Date: 16 Nov 04 - 07:41 AM To quote: Puhleeeeeeease! Many of these have either popped up after or as a result of my observation. So you interpreted a natural breather as the end of the world for discussions about American folk music - and then you use the fact that more posts about American folk appear as "proof" that you were right? Nice one. I see a promising career in politics ahead of you. As for these threads being the *result* of your "observation" - how do you manage to walk past mirrors? Someone, quick, ram a solar panel up his arsehole - if the sun's shining out of it then we might as well get some use out of him! Graham. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Big Al Whittle Date: 16 Nov 04 - 11:23 AM I'm sure there are alot of aspects of the American folk scene we would love to hear about. Favourite folk clubs, favourite recording studios, personalities on the scene we haven't heard of.... the post gig scene, how the lesser luminaries of the scene hustle a living........encounters with anybody on The Blues Project Album (probably my favourite folk album), interraction with the blues and country scene,.... theres a whole continent we wouldn't mind hearing about! |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 16 Nov 04 - 12:09 PM I'm with WLD. We're not all folk-nazis. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Nerd Date: 16 Nov 04 - 12:19 PM You can't fool us, boys. You are the Lord Sidcups of folk music, dressed in identical black footer-bags! |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: GUEST,Arnie Date: 16 Nov 04 - 01:40 PM Geez, I guess the Brits are a bit more computer savvy than the average American folkie like Martin Gibson. Perhaps the Yanks should be worried that their music isn't really the center of the Mudcat world (or the real world for that matter). I know - the Brits are busy playing with their computers and the Yanks are busy playing with their ______ (fill in appropriate word). That's it! Rest assured Martin Gibson - the downward trend may continue. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: YorkshireYankee Date: 16 Nov 04 - 04:09 PM Perhaps one reason there are more threads about the UK music scene is that the US doesn't seem to have someone who posts numerous threads along the lines of: "waHt od yuo think of kATe Rusby?" and "XYZ flok cLub". Obviously, we USians need someone to fill in that tragic gap. Since you are so patriotic MG, perhaps you could do the honors? |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: Folkiedave Date: 16 Nov 04 - 04:10 PM Just posted to American Carols - go take a look!! Dave Eyre |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: GUEST Date: 16 Nov 04 - 10:54 PM Sorry Martin, at Wal-mart's insistence, all American folk threads have been outsourced to China. |
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Subject: RE: Again, nothing about American folk music From: GUEST,Art Thieme Date: 17 Nov 04 - 01:00 AM At least now we will be more oriented than in the past. Art |
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