BS: Burn Baby Burn

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:32 PM

As I recall the debate, when talkiing about the war in Iraq, Bush said something to the effect that we were atttacked and he had to defend the country. It was only when Kerry said that Iraq didn't attack us that Bush said "I know that!"

Now you may argue that Bush's first remark was only an implication, but saying that an attack on Iraq was a defense against the attack on 9/11 could only mean that he considered Iraq responsible. That's the concept behind the word "defense;" protecting oneself against those who attack you.

Likewise, when a reporter asked Ari Fleischer about the innocent civilians killed in Iraq he said "The true innocents are those who died on 9/11." That's the old terrorist catchphrase:"There are no innocents." And if you think Ari F and George W weren't trying to connect Saddam and 9/11 you are a different kind of innocent.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 10:34 AM

I don't know, and now I am left to understand that neither do you. When you find out, please let the rest of us know.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:35 AM

Assuming that you know, I will ask you.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:05 AM

It wasn't about terrorism. It is no longer about Hussein. No WMDs. So, what are you still doing there?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:03 AM

No Shit?

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:49 AM

S Hussein is finished. Has been for months.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:46 AM

I never got any impression from anybody that Saddam was responsible for 9/11.

All I have seen from the administration is that Saddam did support terrorism. There was at least one terrorist training camp in Iraq. Al Qaeda members evidently trained there. And he did pay the familys of Palestinian suicide bombers.

Therefore he should be a target in the war on terrorism like Iran and Korea.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:44 AM

If you can make a two minute response, so do you.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:31 AM

they were wrong about Kerry, too.


btw, if you get upset about a two minute response time, you have bigger problems to worry about than this thread...

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:29 AM

C'mon, Guest, give us an answer will ya?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:27 AM

Does the math but doesn't answer the question.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:25 AM

"So, why do about 60% of the American people think they are? "


100-48 = 52.... So at LEAST 8% of those who voted for Kerry think that the Iraqis were responsible for 9/11...

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:11 AM

Amos:

Can you glean us some quotes that say Saddam was responsible for 9/11?

All I see are insinuations.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:56 PM

That's like you'll bet on the winner and I'll bet that you'll pick the winner, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:50 PM

I'll take that bet. So, how's one of us gonna win?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:48 PM

brucie,

Can I bet on the superbowl with you? I think that the team I'll pick is the winning one...

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Amos
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:48 PM

It's on record with more than one witness that Bush demanded his staff seek a link to tie Saddam to 9-11, startiong on 9-12.

Here's another tidbit: "When interviewed by Tim Russert, Vice President Cheney asserted that Iraq was "the heart of the base" for the 9/11 terrorists and went on from there with a series of half-truths and outright deceptions about almost every topic broached, including his supposed lack of current "financial interest in Halliburton ." Mr. Cheney, a master of the above-reproach dead pan, just kept going, effortlessly mowing right through any objections by the host. The vice president was banking, as Dr. Dean did on "This Week," on a cultural environment in which fiction and nonfiction have become so scrambled  and can be so easily manipulated by politicians and show-biz impresarios alike  that credibility itself has become a devalued, if not archaic, news value. This is why the big national mystery of the moment  why do almost 70 percent of Americans believe in Mr. Cheney's fictional insinuation that Saddam Hussein had some hand in 9/11?  is not so hard to crack. As low as the administration's credibility may be, it is still trusted more than the media trying to correct the fictions the White House plants in the national consciousness." --Frank Rich, NMYT, 09.28.03

See also http://www.bushwatch.net/thoreau.htm.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:46 PM

That 48% still thinks he was a winning candidate--just that he lost. Unfortunately, that half of the country does not perceive your President to be a winner.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:43 PM

US,

I saw the transcript of that TV interview you speak of, and yes Bush did say that. As I noted above, I was wrong. Makes twice in three decades, and the last time was when I thought I'd made a mistake.

However, the connection is there in the public's mind if polls are anything to go by. This administration has done a job of linking the two, and you will have encountered that info in many of the same places we both looked.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:43 PM

Well, brucie, some 48% or so thought that Kerry was a winning candidate. I guess people can be wrong, can't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:39 PM

You cannot equate poverty and poor housing with terrorism. Terrorists are human. Poverty, poor housing & bad health care are conditions.

I see no clear and obvious connection. In fact I have seen on TV, in an interview, Bush saying "of course there was no connection between Saddam and 9/11" I have searched for a transcript of that interview on the net and I cannot find it. I think it was on PBS.

Yes Bush has said on several occasions that there were WMDs in Iraq and that has so far been found to be wrong. The fact that others who are now calling Bush a liar said the same thing but now they are not accountable for what they said but they claim Bush is accountable.

If Bush was a liar, they were and are just as guilty of lying.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:38 PM

Yes, you're right. They implied it but never did say it. I stand corrected. So, why do about 60% of the American people think they are?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:34 PM

brucie,

I am afraid you cannot read.
"SAID that the Iraqis were responsible for 9/11. "

Do you say that ALL the terrorism in the world is 9/11?

The statement that Iraq did support terrorism is true- YOUR statement that the Bush administration said that Iraq was responsible for 9/11 is false.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:32 PM

"In September 2003, Cheney said Iraq under Saddam had been "the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11."

So, is someone from his administration saying it OK? Or that's not Bush, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:18 PM

So then BB, are you saying that the Iraqis are not responsible for terrorism?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Guest, beardedbruce
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:11 PM

brucie,

You make a statement that the Bush administration SAID that the Iraqis were responsible for 9/11. You have been challenged to show the truth of that statement, and failed.

Give it up.

Just because you want to believe something false is true does not mean that the rest of us here have to humor you.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:02 PM

That same argument was used about Vietnam antiwar protest. That was another war with ill-defined objectives and no end in sight. It cost over 57,000 American military personnel their lives and brought much misery to your country and many of those who returned home wounded in body, mind and/or spirit.

I do not doubt the courage of the guys and gals in Iraq. BUT, it is not an issue of patriotism or saying something as simple as what you have above. It wasn't in Vietnam and it isn't now. It is about the responsibility YOU have to request some serious answers from your leaders. The people fighting against the USA and allies in Iraq may not have been your enemy when the war started, but they are now. Suggesting that antiwar protest is aiding the 'enemy'--well, it's much like saying that people who protest poverty or poor housing or bad health care are responsible by their protest for what they are protesting; are somehow responsible for making their situation worse. I don't buy that argument. Nor do I 'buy' the reasons for the US being in Iraq.

BB, you can split all the hairs you want with what Bush said to congress, but the connection is clear and obvious. Like it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:47 PM

If I could be in the position to kill some terrorists, I would. I would take the personal risk of being killed or woulded in the process.

However what you anti-war protesters are doing is detrimrntal to our military. It is dragging out the war and causing more people to be killed and wounded because the terrorists think the anti-war protests are a sign that they can win.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:06 PM

You are confirming the fact that there was no statement that Saddam was responsible for 9/11.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Guest,beardedbruce
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:05 PM

* Iran aggressively pursues these weapons and exports terror, while an unelected few repress the Iranian people's hope for freedom.* "

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:05 PM

Dear Unk,

If you are so Goddamned worried about who has balls and who doesn't, why aren't you in the Marines? Or the Army, or the Air Force, or even the Navy? Oh, wait, let me guess...you're a Gutless Wonder, an Armchair General, a Sunshine Patriot and a Summer Soldier!

Your kind make those who served and who are still serving, those who have risked their lives and those who are risking their lives, puke.

Go away -- the sixties ended forty years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,GUEST,Beardedbruce
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:02 PM

brucie,


"I have searched for incidences of the Bush administration saying that Saddam was responsible for 9/11 and I cannot find any."

"* Iraq continues to flaunt its hostility toward America and to support terror. The Iraqi regime has plotted to develop anthrax and nerve gas and nuclear weapons for over a decade."

Both of the above statements are true. Where does the second one state that Saddam was responsible for 9/11?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 09:31 PM

Now, which part of that did you have trouble finding?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 09:24 PM

The words of Dubya to your congress.

Fight freedom's fight against Axis of Evil

    * Our goal is to prevent regimes that sponsor terror from threatening America or our friends and allies with weapons of mass destruction. Some of these regimes have been pretty quiet since September 11, but we know their true nature. North Korea is a regime arming with missiles and weapons of mass destruction, while starving its citizens.
    * Iran aggressively pursues these weapons and exports terror, while an unelected few repress the Iranian people's hope for freedom.
    * Iraq continues to flaunt its hostility toward America and to support terror. The Iraqi regime has plotted to develop anthrax and nerve gas and nuclear weapons for over a decade.

States like these, and their terrorist allies, constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. The price of indifference would be catastrophic. We can't stop short. History has called America and our allies to action, and it is both our responsibility and our privilege to fight freedom's fight.
Source: State of the Union speech to joint session of Congress Jan 29, 2002

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 08:55 PM

Iraq had caused the 9/11 tragedy

I have searched for incidences of the Bush administration saying that Saddam was responsible for 9/11 and I cannot find any.

All I can find is insinuations that the Administration insinuated thet Saddam was responsible.

Maybe you can find them.

The Charge is that Saddam was pro terrorist.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Burnie
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 08:42 PM

CC:

What assistance?

B

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:40 PM

Morocco is and has been a strong supporter of US foreign policy in the Middle East, and although the government of Morocco publicly opposed the US war against Iraq, it has provided some assistance to the US in this effort. So in this case, the country being fucked over would be Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:49 PM

Guest US:

I have said before and I will say again--my opinion of terrorism is that terrorists should be shot just after the trial which should take less than ten minutes on a slow day. However, the USA has other plans in Iraq. The bullshit about invading because Iraq had caused the 9/11 tragedy was never founded in fact. Your country has made up bullshit reasons to invade another state. And in the process of invading a sovereign nation you have created terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:47 PM

A attacks B, therefore B attacks C. Logical?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Burnie
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:17 PM

CC:

What country was Morroco fucking over to cause a terrorist attack there?

B

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 01:44 PM

Brucie:

You don't realize it but you are working for the terrorists. That is what they do. They terrorize people so they are a afraid to fight back. The ones that are afraid try to influence the others with balls not to fight.

You can wrap your ass backward reasoning in all the intellectual wisdom you want but the logic is quite simple.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 10:59 PM

And yes, Guest US: we are aware that US Marines are risking their lives to help civilians--they always have. It's the "policy" most of us disagree with. This war--unfettered and undirected by elected people in Washington--left to the military, would be over now--would have been over months ago. You can't seem to get your head around the idea that your C-in-C is a complete and utter dolt, and that he and the VP do not mind how many people they cause to be killed on either 'side' of this whole thing. Their interest is not what you seem to think it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 10:42 PM

So...if they're dead, they're insurgents.

"We had to destroy the village in order to save it."

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 10:37 PM

GUEST, US:

"However, the Iraqi authorities deny that Fallujah residents are suffering severe difficulties. In an interview with Arabya Television on Tuesday, interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi said the situation in the city was under control and that there was no humanitarian crisis. He also claimed that only insurgents had been affected by the attacks, adding that he believed no civilians had been killed."

That was taken from an article which is linked on the thread "BS: Humanitarian aid to Fajullah?" Allawi sounds like your kinda guy. Nothin' to see here; move along.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 08:53 PM

I am an American, and I am most decidely not a pacifist, GUEST US. In point of fact, I served during Vietnam as an 11B40, Light Weapons Infantry -- a grunt, a gravelcruncher, an eleven bush. I'm a pretty fair shot with pistol, rifle, shotgun -- and once upon a time with the M-60 machine gun, M-79 grenade launcher, and the 81 mm mortar. I've taught hand-to-hand combat. I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, and should it ever again happen that I must use a weapon on another person, that person will die.

From your posts, GUEST US, you seem to be all mouth and no action -- in my mother's words, you "talk a good line" and that line is pure crap.

When you know enough about fighting and warfare, whether individual, small unit, even TO, that you surpass the Modern Major General's knowledge of commisariat; when, in other words, you have proven yourself on the battlefield as Colin Powell, Bob Kerrey, or John McCain has -- then, perhaps, you may have earned the right to express an opinion.

In the meantime, do yourself and the nation a favor and shut the hell up.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 08:16 PM

GUEST, US:

You are likely the worst enemy your country has--because you follow blindly. You ring of people from uglier times who said things like "My country, right or wrong" or "I was only following orders." You live in a democracy of sorts, and you have quit your responsibility to hold your government accountable.

Yes, you follow the drums, and you imply that those who are not for you are necessarily against you, but many who disagree with you do so from a sense of patriotism and love for their country. They hate to see it shamed by bad leadership and poor excuses. Platitudes mean little, and you have been spouting lots of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 08:05 PM

Your shorts too tight?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 07:52 PM

Is your hat uncomfortable?

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 07:45 PM

What coalition?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 07:43 PM

You candy asses are helping the terrorists and harming the coalition forces.

You are also causing innocent bystanders like M Hassan to be murdered.

You give the terrorists the idea that they can force the coalition forces to leave if they fight long enough.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 07:30 PM

The Al Qaeda is reported to have a global reach, and the countries where it maintains a presence include Algeria, Egypt, Morocco, Turkey, Jordan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Syria, Xinjiang in China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Myanmar, Indonesia, Mindanao in the Philippines, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Yemen, Libya, Tunisia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Dagestan, Jammu and Kashmri, Sudan, Somalia, Kenya, Tanzania, Azerbaijan, Eritrea, Uganda, Ethiopia, as also in parts of the West Bank and Gaza. The dispersed nature of Al Qaeda cadres around the globe has provided Osama bin Laden command over a global terror network with capabilities to carry out lethal terrorist attacks.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 05:15 PM

Turkey is helping the US fuck over other countries. The targets in Bali were people from countries who are fucking over other countries. The Phillippines have certainly helped the US fuck over other countries through the presence of US military bases there, but in this case, that doesn't appear to be the cause of the terrorism. In the case of the Phillippines, the terrorists appear to be more of the Timothy McViegh variety.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 05:08 PM

CC:

So the Phillipines, Turkey and Indonesia are fucking over other countrys?

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 01:01 PM

Oh, i tried, but it's just too dirty. Like a t-shirt you just can't get clean, so you end up using it as a rag to clean cat shit off the floor. Hey, that's not a bad idea!

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:48 PM

Brainwash him back--but in his case, a light rinse will do.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:41 PM

Too late. Dunno about you, but i've already been brainwashed. Oh, my poor impressionable young mind...

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Chris Green
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:36 PM

Yep.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:35 PM

Hoooooly. In plain English (or mountain English for that matter), what did you say? That's like, uh, don't talk to him, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Chris Green
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 11:38 AM

What a pointless discussion. GUEST, Burnie is obviously a) a troll, b) a clueless, blinkered prick or c) both of the above. Maroon him him in cyberspace and don't fuel his puerile invective!

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 10:54 AM

That's good, Clint.

Ball-less Burnie.

I like it.

"...but Burnie
Has no balls
At all."

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 01:18 AM

" The terrorists in Iraq need more help than the Coalition.
You war protesters need to go there and help out the terrorists."

So when it comes right down to it, you'd rather see terrorists helped than go help the "coalition."

Burnie, you got no balls at all.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:50 AM

"And soon the situation there was all but straightened out; he was always known to lend a helping hand."

Thank you, Bobbie.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:33 AM

NO!!!
Don't go to Iraq, Burnie...they're in enough trouble as it is...

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:28 AM

CC:

Why are terrorists attacking in the Phillipines, Turkey and Indonesia?

A little slow on the uptake today, Burnie? I answered your question in my 19 Nov 04 - 04:02 PM post. But here it is again in case you can't figure out how find it for yourself...

Indonesia has a complicated set of circumstances that it's dealing with and it would probably be a mistake to try to assign one specific reason for the terrorist attacks in that country. In the case of the Bali bombings, the fact that one of the targets was the US consulate, and the other target was a nightclub that was heavily frequented by Australians, along with the fact that the US with the help of Australia, was preparing to wage an invasion of Iraq, suggests a very strong probability that the terrorist attacks were linked to US and Australian foriegn policy. Other terrorist incidents in Indonesia appear to be connected to separatist movements within Indonesia against the Indonesian government.

The most recent terrorist attacks in Turkey were against Jewish and British targets. Turkey has strategic relationships with both Israel and the coalition of countries involved in the war against Iraq, which includes the UK. Those strategic relationships put Turkey at risk of terrorist attacks related to the US and UK led war against Iraq, as well as Israel's Palestinian policies.

The terrorist attacks in the Phillippines are linked to the efforts of separatists who want to establish an independent state in the southern part of the Phillippines.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 11:32 PM

yeh burnie, you're all talk. when are you gonna do your bit for your country, like some of these people in the Cat have?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Burnie
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 11:29 PM

The terrorists in Iraq need more help than the Coalition.

You war protesters need to go there and help out the terrorists.

For idiots like Brucie: The terrorists are the ones who kidnap and behead innocent civilians.

CC:

Why are terrorists attacking in the Phillipines, Turkey and Indonesia?

Burnie

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 11:28 PM

Here ya go, Burnie. And you too, US. It's just a toll-free call away.

1-800-USA-ARMY, ext. 181

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 09:58 PM

Enough of this chartter. We're all keeping Burnie from running off to Iraq and shooting terrorists.

Go get 'em Burnie.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 09:51 PM

Gee...

I can't think of a better way to wipe out terrorism than invading a country for spurious reasons, Killing the fathers, brothers and sons of that nation who might actually believe what their government is telling them, leaving families homeless by destroying the city in which they lived to get a few "insurgents" who in the most part seem to have escaped, leaving weapons dumps unguarded, etc., etc.

And with the number of reservists and national guard personnel who are in civilian life police, firemen and other civic service personnel, wouldn't it be safer and more prudent to have them guarding our shores instead of securing a foreign country?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 04:02 PM

Indonesia has a complicated set of circumstances that it's dealing with and it would probably be a mistake to try to assign one specific reason for the terrorist attacks in that country. In the case of the Bali bombings, the fact that one of the targets was the US consulate, and the other target was a nightclub that was heavily frequented by Australians, along with the fact that the US with the help of Australia, was preparing to wage an invasion of Iraq, suggests a very strong probability that the terrorists attacks were linked to US and Australian foriegn policy. Other terrorist incidents in Indonesia appear to be connected to separatists movements within Indonesia against the Indonesian government.

The most recent terrorist attacks in Turkey were against Jewish and British targets. Turkey has strategic relationships with both Israel and the coalition of countries involved in the war against Iraq, which includes the UK. Those strategic relationships put Turkey at risk of terrorist attacks related to the US and UK led war against Iraq, as well as Israel's Palestinian policies.

The terrorist attacks in the Phillippines are linked to the efforts of separatists who want to establish an independent state in the southern part of the Phillippines.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 08:13 AM

Burnie was unfortunate enough to be hit by a truck and ended
up in the hospital. His best friend Morris came to visit him.

Burnie struggles to tell Morris, "My wife Sadie visits me
three times a day. She's so good to me. Every day, she reads
to me at the bedside."

"What does she read?" asks Morris.

"My life insurance policy."

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 12:28 AM

Same reason you're attacking here. They have issues; you have issues. No one said it has to make sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Burnie
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 12:19 AM

CC:

Why are terrorists attacking in the Phillipines, Turkey and Indonesia?


Burnie

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 07:37 PM

You too, US; why aren't you in Iraq helping out? Let us know.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 12:40 PM

Rapaire and brucie - you always sum it up so simply and effectively. Thank you.

CarolC - tilting at windmills again? I admire your perseverence. GUEST,US has not the ability to comprehend sophisticated logic. "Nuke anyone who disagrees with our leaders" will always be the ultimate show of patriotism to him/her. Sad but true.

GUEST,US - I was in NYC on Sept 11th and spent days tracking down friends and loved ones. Some were never found. I am capable of killing terrorists. I consider it a patiotic duty. But only a fool would let George Bush and his cronies define who those terrorists are without any proof but repeated charges of "Weapons of Mass Destruction", atc. and then blindly follow them into a slaughter of innocent people. And for every dead innocent, we have created another terrorist or two or three.
Isn't it possible that the people of Iraq, even some of them, are fighting to get the US invaders out of their land? If a foreign army occupied Portland, ME, I know I would. Is this too sophisticated for you to comprehend? Or too unpatriotic?

Move over Carol. I'll take the left paddle.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 12:39 PM

Violence has solved many things.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 12:05 PM

I personally invite GUEST US, who is traveling under the moniker "Uncle Sam" to a peace demonstration which will be held by my buddies and me if he agrees to show up.

We're militant pacificists and will beat the crap outa anybody who disagrees with us that violence never solved anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 10:30 AM

Guest, US: Logic ain't yer long suit.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 11:36 PM

You know about the guy that recently walked into a lion's cage and got attacked? He deserved it.

So with this logic, you have just justified every "terrorist" act that has been committed against coalition members in Iraq. The US military and coalition forces have entered a lion's cage in Iraq, and now they are being attacked for it.   And you are saying they deserve to be attacked. Looks like you think terrorism is a good thing after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 11:21 PM

Uncle Sam, if the terrorists just do what they do because they hate freedom and democracy, why aren't they attacking countries like Norway, Sweden, Finland, Iceland, Canada, Luxembourg, Bermuda, and Norway?

The reason is because those countries aren't fucking over other people's countries the way the US does.

It's not anti-war protesters who cause terrorism. What causes terrorism is when strong and powerful countries like the US use their strength and power to cause a tremendous amount of pain and suffering for the people in weak and powerless countries. And using an iron fist on the people who respond to tyranny with violence not only does not stop the problem, it actually makes the problem worse. So it's people like you who cause terrorism, and who feed it.

But still, even with that in mind, I'll not wish for your death.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 11:13 PM

You're right, GUEST US. Absolutely. Just one tiny little thing standing in the way, and that's easily disposed of. I mean, hell, what good is the Constitution anyway? Every president since FDR has ignored parts of it that are inconvenient for them, like Article 1, Section 8, Clause 11. And that little thing about freedom of speech and all, we don't need that, unless, of course, it's our opinions being shut up. There's that thing about the right to peaceably assemble -- I mean, that's bullshit on the face of it, so gun 'em down like the Redcoats did that snowy day in Boston or the National Guard at Kent State.











Jaysus, what an idiot! I went to war to protect people like this?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: LadyJean
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 11:09 PM

I attend a liberal church that pushes pacifism. We also feed and shelter the homeless, tutor poor children, help families in distress.
Now I don't know quite how to break this to you Burnie, but a person who wants to burn down a building with children, and old people, and idealists, who would be reluctant to fight even if they were attacked, IS a terrorist.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 10:46 PM

CC:

You know about the guy that recently walked into a lion's cage and got attacked? He deserved it.

The people that protest a war and get attacked by the enemy deserve it.

The enemy is here in America. What happens if we are attacked?

Do you think it will be because of the war? No. It will be because of the anti-war protesters that encourage more attacks.

Let the protesters bear the brunt of the attacks.


Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: SINSULL
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 03:49 PM

pdq - I was not offended by the use of the phrase but by the ridicule implied of the man who burned himself to death.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 09:26 AM

Now here's a twist!

NEW YORK (AP) -- A man who set himself on fire in front of the White House this week was a key witness against a sheik accused of funneling millions of dollars to al-Qaida and the Palestinian Islamic group Hamas, defense lawyers said Tuesday.

Defense attorneys said Mohamed Alanssi is a confidential informant central to the prosecution of Sheik Ali Hassan al-Moayad, a leading member of an Islamic-oriented political party in Yemen who is awaiting trial in federal court in New York. He and his assistant allegedly conspired to provide material support to Osama bin Laden and the Hamas.

Alanssi sent suicide notes Monday morning to his FBI handler and a Washington Post reporter, complaining about his treatment by the government and threatening that he would burn himself in an "unexpected place."

Federal prosecutors and the FBI declined to comment on the case. But attorneys for al-Moayad and his co-defendant, Mohammed Mohsen Yahya Zayed, said Tuesday they believe the government case was seriously weakened by the incident and Alanssi's suicide notes. The newspaper published Alanssi's letters on its Web site.

Alanssi, a 52-year-old Virginia resident, wrote to FBI agent Robert Fuller in New York complaining that the agent had ignored Alanssi's request to visit his ailing wife and family in Yemen. He threatened not to testify against al-Moayad as a result. He wrote the Post that he was afraid the government might jail and torture him if he stopped cooperating.

I've edited the forgoing, snipping out whole paragraphs, but it's from the Associated Press and I'm certain that you can find the whole article yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 01:01 AM

Burnie, I think you should get right over there to Iraq and fight them there so you won't have to fight them here, Do what you believe in. What's holding you up?

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 12:50 AM

Burnie, you actually wish death upon people for practicing free speach in what is supposed to be the most freedom-loving country in the world? I think maybe you'd be happier in a dictatorship where they do kill people for having dissenting opinions.

Now on the subject of the people who attacked the US on 9/11, they were mostly from Saudi Arabia, where the US military does have bases, and where the US does indeed support a fairly brutal dictatorship. In fact, the US military presence in Saudi Arabia was given by Osama himself as one of the reasons for attacking the US.

And on the subject of Afghanistan, yes, the US did drop the ball in that country. They (we) used the Afgans as our proxy fighters against the Soviet Union, and the country was fairly well destroyed in the process. Then when we didn't need them any more, we just left them to rot, and didn't provide them with any assistance at all in getting their country rebuilt. The Taliban arose in the power vacuum that was left after we abandoned the Afghan people, and they provided the Afghans with the only stability they had for a while there. And for a while, the US even supported the Taliban because of that.

What was needed in Afghanistan in order to prevent the rise to power of a group like the Taliban would have been monetary assistance for the purpose of rebuilding the Afghan infrastructure. But the US didn't really want an independent Afghanistan that could make its own decisions, because the US wanted to use Afghanistan for an important oil pipeline, so the US allowed Afghanistan to fall ever deeper into chaos until the Taliban arose, and Osama Bin Laden with it. Remember, Osama was trained by the CIA. The US created Osama Bin Laden as well as the Taliban through its direct actions as well as it's criminal neglect of its allies.

You are a very ignorant and hateful person, Burnie.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 10:21 PM

As a first-responder, that wouldn't be my call to make.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Once Famous
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 10:19 PM

I wish they wouldn't have put out the fire.

Let Allah have him.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 10:15 PM

"There was no American presence in Afghanistan at the time of that terrorist attack"

Wha? Did Americans attack the WTC, Pentagon and Shenksville? I missed sumthin in your 10:10.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Burnie
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 10:10 PM

CC: I wish he had blown himself up and taken some anti-war protesters with him.

Everybody claims the people responsible for 9/11 were in Afghanistan. There was no American presence in Afghanistan at the time of that terrorist attack. In fact America was being berated for getting out of Afghanistan after enabeling them to end the Soviet occupation.

Burnie

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 10:03 PM

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A man who set himself on fire outside the White House on Monday was a Yemeni federal informant on terrorism upset over how the FBI (news - web sites) had managed his case, The Washington Post reported on Tuesday.

"Mohamed Alanssi, who had recently discussed his work as an informant in interviews with The Washington Post, told the newspaper by faxed letter and telephone on Monday he intended to "burn my body at unexpected place," the newspaper reported. "


Yep. He's a Democrat

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Amos
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 09:58 PM

Well, cool, man. You got yourself a nice cut-and-dried war with the sides nicely laid out. No telling how they got there. But hey, when you're in a war, all that fancy analysis goes by the board anyway. God can sort it out afterwards.

You have any idea if they are all shooting at US troops for the same reasons? Or different reasons? How many?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 09:58 PM

"anybody that is beheading hostages or shooting at the Coalition and Iraqi forces NOW are terrorists"

How many people in Iraq were terrorists (by your definition) BEFORE the Bushite invasion? Just asking.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 09:50 PM

Maybe they're just people fed up with an army of occupation. That happens, Burnie. Some of what you've said I can agree with, but your initial post made you sound like some right-wing idiot using shit for brains. No civilized individual takes delight in someone setting himself afire.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 09:12 PM

The view of just who is spreading terror depends on which side of the fence you're standing, nicht wahr?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Burnie
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 09:05 PM

If your mindset is of the kind that calls them all ragheads

My mindset is that anybody that is beheading hostages or shooting at the Coalition and Iraqi forces NOW are terrorists.

It's not that difficult to figure out.

Burnie

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 06:40 PM

"You want terrorists shot but you don't want to wage war on them like they are waging on us."

You mentioned that I am conflicted. Bad English, but I understand what you are attempting to say. However, I seem not to be as conflicetd as you. You seem to have no name. How conflicted is THAT?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 11:27 AM

Burnie

America is very fond of lecturing the world on how democratic she is, how she respects freedom of speech and human rights and how more of the world should share her values.

And then people like you go and undermine all that with your hate-fuelled intolerance of other views.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 11:20 AM

Would you have preferred it if he had blown himself up and taken a few civilians with him? I think he showed amazing restraint. Especially when you consider the fact that what the "terrorists" want is not to destroy this country (or any of the people in it), but just to get the US government and military the hell out of their countries. And this has always been the only thing they have wanted.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: sledge
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 11:17 AM

Burnie,

protests, peaceful ones at that effectively sank the Vietnam war, they also caused the collapse of most of the communist regimes in Eastern Europe.

Before you make any more fatuous statements go read some books, and not ones that you have to color in.

Sledge

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 11:16 AM

Such suicides have historical antecedents, and they have worked.

Within Celtic countries, and perhaps within the entire Indo-European spectrum of culture, fasting against a more powerful person was the ultimate in protest. Quite simply, you sat outside their dwelling and starved yourself until either you died or they rectified what you saw as an injustice against done to you. It was a form of cursing, and often the only such form of protest available to the weaker person. This being done by widows was thought to be particularily powerful.

I have noted the Buddhist monks in Saigon earlier.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: pdq
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 11:16 AM

"Burn Baby, Burn" and "Keep the Faith, Baby" are both catch phrases from Adam Clayton Powell, Jr. He was a US congressman from Harlem in the 50s thru 1972. Anybody who is offended by their use does not remember what a joke (=jerk) congressman Powell was.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Amos
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 11:14 AM

Burnie:

I think you are over-generalizing your impression of the enemy.

Let me remind you that Iraqis were not involved in killing Americans prior to the Buish invasion.

If your mindset is of the kind that calls them all ragheads, or some such, you need to go back to school, buddy.

There are enemies out there but you need to get clear where and who they are.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Burnie
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 11:08 AM

Brucie:

Feel better now? You are so conflicted you need to blow off steam or you might explode.

You want terrorists shot but you don't want to wage war on them like they are waging on us.

Why don't they just have peaceful protests against Americans instead of war?

The reason is protests are held by idiots and get no results.

Burnie

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Mooh
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 10:46 AM

I've never been clear on how igniting oneself protests anything. It's at least maiming and at most suicidal, but doesn't relate to a cause that I can fathom. What good does a dead person serve if they could achieve more by being alive? And if they couldn't do more alive than dead, what makes them think that the white house cares what they do? (There is the argument also, that the white house is happy to see them burn.)

I am sorry for the individual who is misguided enough to sacrifice self for no effect, and I am sorry for their reasons, all of which will be forgotten in the big picture. Living protest works better.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 10:30 AM

No one here wants to protect terrorists, IMO.

I was, am and will be again an anti-war protest participant. I would have no qualms taking a clear shot at a terrorist. In your hatred, you have confused two things. I retract my apology. You are not a dumb fuck, but you ARE a stupid individual. Mommy should take you off the computer.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Burnie
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 10:25 AM

My beef is with the people that want to protect the terrorists that want to kill any American they can regardless of age, race or sex.

I want them to get the anti-war protestors first.

Burnie

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: LadyJean
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 01:23 AM

Some right wing nutcase wants to burn my church with me in it, because he doesn't like what the Presbyterian church U.S.A. is doing. Last Sunday, the pastor read off a list of the nonperishable foods the Sunday school kids are collecting for needy families, then pointed out the best ways to exit the church in case of a fire. If someone DID burn the church, of course, those kids would burn too. But something tells me the bastard who made that threat doesn't care.
Was it you Burnie?

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 10:28 PM

Burnie's first, last, and hopefully only thread on Mudcat. We can only hope.

I agree with Rapaire. "Burn, Baby, Burn" is not appropriate here.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 09:19 PM

Gee, I seem to remember that the Buddhist monks who burned themselves to death in Saigon toppled the Diem regime. Could it be that this dude -- who I suspect has a mental problem -- knows history and Burnie doesn't?

Also, the phrase "Burn, Baby, Burn" comes from the riots of the mid-60s. To use it in this way I find vaguely and, in some undefined manner, insulting.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:40 PM

Personally, i don't see what's so impressive about setting oneself on fire. Neither do i see what's so impressive about making some tenuous link between someone setting themselves on fire and anti-war protestors, and then proceeding to flaunt that faulty logic...




Gee, i must be really hard to impress.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: freda underhill
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:35 PM

yeh, racist, flamer, dumb, but not..

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:35 PM

It's just that the truth hurts Brucie..... he can't take it.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: frogprince
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:34 PM

"Kiss kiss"? Brucie, are yu some kinda faggot? If so, yu better set fire to yerself, for the proteckshun of the americun instituchun of marrege.!

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:33 PM

Hey, Burnie, I'm not tryin' to impress you or anyone else. Just that your logic made NO sense. I am sorry for calling you a dumb fuck.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: jacqui.c
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:33 PM

Burnie - Brucie has been impressing a lot of folk around here for a long time. He doesn't need your advice.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:25 PM

Kiss kiss, Burnie.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Burnie
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:24 PM

Brucie:

Keep your matches dry because that is the only way you are going to impress anybody.

Burnie

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: frogprince
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:23 PM

Brucie, what you just said was an insult to a good fuck.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:21 PM

Pardon me for sayin', Guest Burnie, but you are one dumb fuck! LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:20 PM

No point getting upset over stupid logic.

1) Man sets self afire for unknown reason.
2) He shouts "Allah. Allah."
3) Guest says "Which one of you Anti-war Protesters wants to be next?"

DOH!

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: frogprince
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:19 PM

Ain't that so clever; Burnie, talking about burning; get it? hahahahaha. Stupidist thing I've seen on the 'cat yet, and that's saying a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: darkriver
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:12 PM

Burnie,

so you're saying that anyone who doesn't support a war ought to die?
No need to think about it, no need to have a thought, just shut up and fight, or otherwise kill yourself?

I'm fighting a war against stupidity, Burnie, and if you're not for it, go burn yourself.

doug

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Burnie
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:09 PM

So Anti-war protestation is a religion now? Figures.

Burnie

Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Amos
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:07 PM

Gee Burnie, you're a Classic Redneck at work, huh? What a second-rate un-American attitude. Lemme guess-- you think freedom of religion is only for those of the correct religion?

Go back to your dark rock.

A

Subject: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Burnie
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 07:41 PM

A man set himself afire Monday just outside a White House gate and repeatedly yelled "Allah Allah"

Which one of you Anti-war Protesters wants to be next?

Burnie