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BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?

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Chris Green 19 Nov 04 - 02:55 PM
Chris Green 19 Nov 04 - 02:57 PM
Bert 19 Nov 04 - 03:07 PM
Clinton Hammond 19 Nov 04 - 03:22 PM
Chris Green 19 Nov 04 - 03:27 PM
Peace 19 Nov 04 - 03:31 PM
The Shambles 19 Nov 04 - 03:31 PM
emjay 19 Nov 04 - 03:41 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Nov 04 - 03:45 PM
Clinton Hammond 19 Nov 04 - 03:48 PM
Metchosin 19 Nov 04 - 03:52 PM
Ebbie 19 Nov 04 - 04:04 PM
Bill D 19 Nov 04 - 04:06 PM
GUEST 19 Nov 04 - 04:18 PM
Bob Hitchcock 19 Nov 04 - 04:30 PM
Mrs Cobble 19 Nov 04 - 04:57 PM
Dave the Gnome 19 Nov 04 - 04:59 PM
mack/misophist 19 Nov 04 - 05:13 PM
freda underhill 19 Nov 04 - 05:30 PM
GUEST 19 Nov 04 - 05:36 PM
Once Famous 19 Nov 04 - 05:41 PM
GUEST 19 Nov 04 - 05:49 PM
Once Famous 19 Nov 04 - 05:53 PM
freda underhill 19 Nov 04 - 06:09 PM
harvey andrews 19 Nov 04 - 06:19 PM
Hand-Pulled Boy 20 Nov 04 - 06:55 AM
burntstump 20 Nov 04 - 07:28 AM
van lingle 20 Nov 04 - 07:44 AM
Cluin 20 Nov 04 - 08:30 AM
Les in Chorlton 20 Nov 04 - 10:28 AM
Once Famous 20 Nov 04 - 11:23 AM
Little Hawk 20 Nov 04 - 11:33 AM
Chris Green 20 Nov 04 - 11:40 AM
Blissfully Ignorant 20 Nov 04 - 11:40 AM
GUEST,milk monitor 20 Nov 04 - 11:55 AM
Sttaw Legend 20 Nov 04 - 11:59 AM
Blissfully Ignorant 20 Nov 04 - 12:28 PM
Peace 20 Nov 04 - 12:31 PM
Blissfully Ignorant 20 Nov 04 - 12:34 PM
Little Hawk 20 Nov 04 - 12:39 PM
Peace 20 Nov 04 - 12:44 PM
Blissfully Ignorant 20 Nov 04 - 12:47 PM
Peace 20 Nov 04 - 12:49 PM
Blissfully Ignorant 20 Nov 04 - 12:52 PM
Chris Green 20 Nov 04 - 12:53 PM
frogprince 20 Nov 04 - 01:11 PM
Strollin' Johnny 20 Nov 04 - 04:29 PM
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Subject: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Chris Green
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 02:55 PM

I'm aware that this is likely to elicit a barrage of abuse and calls for me to be strung up from the nearest lamp-post, but why do people rate Elvis? I've never been able to understand it. To me he was the first manufactured pop-act - he didn't write his own songs, he was carefully marketed to appeal to the as-yet untapped teen audience and was a triumph of image over substance. I've been told it's one of those 'you have to have been there' things, but I was born seven years after the Beatles split up and I still rate them. Same goes with a variety of 50s and 60's artists - the Stones, the Who, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry. To me Elvis doesn't bear comparison with any of these!

I'm not trying to stir shit, I'm genuinely nonplussed as to his appeal. Can anyone enlighten me?


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Chris Green
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 02:57 PM

Oops, sorry, tried the novel approach of posting the message BEFORE I'd written it! Just to say I've put this in BS 'cos it isn't a folk question. If the powers be want to move it above the line, that's cool.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Bert
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 03:07 PM

Actually he had quite a good voice and he knew how to put a song across. It was a pity he was such a hick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 03:22 PM

"the Stones, the Who, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry. To me Elvis doesn't bear comparison with any of these"

That's why it's just opinion DB...   And yours doesn't really matter to anyone else, andy more than theirs should to you...

But I think it was John Prine who wrote the line,
"50,000,000 Elvis fans can't be all wrong"

I mean of the examples you listed, I prefer Buddy Holly... Then Elvis over the rest...

And I'm equally nonplused at how anyone can like The Doors... To solve it, I've mostly just quit thinking about it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Chris Green
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 03:27 PM

I think you misunderstand me, Clinton. I'm not asking why I don't like Elvis. I'm asking why other people do. I didn't used to like a lot of the more trad English stuff (The Copper Family, The Young Tradition to name a couple) but when someone explained what it was they liked about it and what they listened for in it, it began to make more sense. I'm convinced I'm missing something and would like to hear some opinions that may (genuinely) change my mind!


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Peace
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 03:31 PM

I can be of no help here with this question. I liked the "Wise men say . . ." thing and "Jail House Rock". That was it.

BM


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 03:31 PM

I think that you had to be living in a time before the totally new sound of Heartbreak Hotel burst on to the radio - to really appreciate how much better things got from that point onward. All the ingredients and elements may have been around but it was Elvis that put everything together.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: emjay
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 03:41 PM

Not for me. Elvis was big when I was in my teens, and while I thought he could sing, I didn't think he always did. I never have spent much time listening to him, I thought the pouty look was tiresome, and the whole staged look was 'way too contrived to be appealing. I really did not like his singing and I still don't and I fail to understand the adulation he receives.
I'm obviously getting too old. I can also remember when girls were "swooning" over Frank Sinatra, and couldn't understand that either. Now I can listen to Elvis and Sinatra a lot less critically and appreciate a lot about their singing without ever going out of my way to hear either one. I think I was determined not to like whatever was popular at the time. (I actually find myself going around singing some of the Beatles songs now, butI wouldn't have admitted that in their heyday.)
But give me the Weavers, or the Clancys and Makem, or Stan Rogers, and many less well-known.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 03:45 PM

What puzzles me is that almost every time you get a clip about Elvis, it's the later Elvis, pudgy and parodying himself in that absurd white suit he wore on stage. I suppose there is more film of late Ekvis, and it's in colour too.

But he doesn't compare with what he was like in his pre-army days. Or rather he does compare, and very badly undeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 03:48 PM

Folks like what they like... CAN it be explained?


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Metchosin
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 03:52 PM

Elvis Presley performed, what was known back then as "race music" and thereby introduced a taboo style to a young white audience.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 04:04 PM

Right, McGrath. The later Elvis became a parody of the earlier one, I think. I think it was his unsophisticated loyalty that made him keep 'Colonel' Parker and let him so mismanage his talent. Ironic to realize how much money that he has made since his and Parker's death.

There was a vitality and drive to his songs that was very different from the Bing Crosby/Frank Sinatra era. I was just a year younger than Presley and was a big fan of his voice. We collected his records, sang the songs and danced to the tunes, but I never went to his concerts and watched only two of his movies. I thought his acting roles were awful and his acting worse.

I mourned his eventual deterioration and death. I would very much have liked him to have a happier ending than the sanctimonious Pat Boone.

One of the most revealing moments of the real Elvis to me was an outtake of a post-concertjam, where he's sitting there with 8 or 10 other musicians; all of them singing snippets of songs. Two girls come up and ask him for his autograph. He complies and they go away, squealing. In an uncomfortable voice, he says, quietly, I'll never understand it.

Through all of his bloated, druggy years, I was hoping he would be able to shake it, but he never did. He could still be alive, still singing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 04:06 PM

I have hated "Elvis" and all his posturing and the aura around him for ....well, forever...then a few months ago, I saw a documentary about one of his tours, and I finally saw why some folks like him. I still do NOT like the music and style, but I saw how he worked and connected with the audience when he was doing a live concert. I have to admit, he had a way about him when he was 'on'. Too bad things went like they did.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 04:18 PM

Because he did killer covers of some really great songs. It is that simple. Sure there was the teen phenomenon (he was the music rebel that equalled the movie rebel, James Dean), which I might add didn't start with him--Sinatra, for instance, had a cult following like Elvis had.

I was never a huge cult sort of fan, but then there aren't any music acts I've ever felt drawn to like the cult sort of fan feels drawn to, like more than few Dylan devotees around here for instance!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Bob Hitchcock
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 04:30 PM

Here we are more than 25 years after Elvis died and there must be thousands of impersonators running around Las Vegas and once a month the Weekly World News has a story about a sighting or some other made up bullshit, so the guy must have had something. How many other so called Pop Idols can match him, I have never heard of a Jerry Garcia sighting or Jim Morrison returning for one more show or a Jimi Hendrix impersonator performing quick wedding ceremonies. No, only Elvis can make that claim and he also tried to get Nixon to make him a DEA agent (can you imagine getting busted by "The King" for smoking a joint).


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Mrs Cobble
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 04:57 PM

Never was a fan but went to Gracelands with a friend.... caused a riot when I touched the Harley in his the motor museum boy did the place rock!


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 04:59 PM

I think they were great in 'Lord of the Rings'. I am not sure that they are accurately portrayed in Santa's Groto though.

Well, MY invitation said...

:D


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 05:13 PM

Once I knew a very smart woman who, in a moment of weakness, admitted to having been the president of the local Elvis fan club when she was a girl. Her explanation was "He was the best thing around at the time." That must have been true for an awful lot of people. Add in the fact that you always love the music you listened to as a tee, and that more or less explains it all. Except the few young Elvis fans.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 05:30 PM

Galway to Graceland

Oh she dressed in the dark A
And she whispered Amen D G/B A D
She was pretty in pink like a young girl again D D
Twenty years married A
But she never thought twice D G/B A D
She sneaked out the door and walked into the night A G/B D

And silver wings carried her over the sea A G/B D >
From the west coast of Ireland to west Tennesee D
To be with her sweetheart A
She left everything D G/B A D >
From Galway to Graceland to be with the King

She was humming "Suspicion"
That's the song she liked best
She had "Elvis I love you" tatooed on her breast
They landed in Memphis
Her heart beat so fast
She'd dreamed for so long, now she'd see him at last

She was down by his graveside day after day
Come closing time they would drag her away
To be with her sweetheart
She left everything >
From Galway to Graceland to be with the King

Solo They came in the thousands >
From the whole human race
To pay their respects at his last resting place
Ah but blindly she knealt there
And she told him her dreams
And she thought that he answered, or that's how it seemed

And they dragged her away, it was handcuffs this time
She said my dear man, "Are you out of your mind?"
Can't you see that we're married?
I'm wearing his ring
I've come from Galway to Graceland to be with the King >
From Galway to Graceland to be with the King

Richard Thompson


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 05:36 PM

Well, he always had a kick ass band too, in addition to the great songs he covered, now that I think about it.

BTW, there have been many a Jim Morrison sighting down through the years, so let us not rule out the Lizard King from the bizarre rock kings stratosphere...


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 05:41 PM

The early stuff, like what was recorded by Sam Philips was truly an original blend of country and black r&b.

It was done with an edge and an attitude, that as even by the very existence of this thread, still being talked about today.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 05:49 PM

His "greatest songs" (not greatest hits, many of which sucked):

Hound Dog
All Shook Up
Can't Help Falling in Love (actually, Arlo proved this is a folk song)
Jailhouse Rock
Don't Be Cruel
Love Me Tender
Blue Suede Shoes (though Carl's was better, IMO, this one is still great)
Return to Sender


I mean, Vive Las Vegas and Blue Hawaii weren't Elvis the rock and roll musician, they were Elvis the teen heart throb goes Hollywood phenomenon. You have to have a discerning eye. Or is that ear?


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 05:53 PM

you are missing the Sun stuff big time like:

That's All right Mama
Good Rockin' Tonight
blue Moon of kentucky

Back when the sound was sparse and not overproduced.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 06:09 PM

when i was younger i thought elvis was a joke. it took years for me to appreciate his music, and to realise as well how bloody gorgeous he was.

elvis


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: harvey andrews
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 06:19 PM

Early Elvis ws revolutionary. He opened a door to a musical room that hadn't existed before..a true revolutionary. Then everyone rushed into the room and he was trampled in the crush as Colonel Parker held on to his spangled jumpsuit to prevent him going forward.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 06:55 AM

There's only one Elvis and his surname is Costello.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: burntstump
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 07:28 AM

Acording to Jack Hudson    "Elvis is Alive and Well"
check out the song it's great!
Hear him sing it is even better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: van lingle
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 07:44 AM

I don't know why people rave but if you pick up the Sun Sessions CD (and some of the early RCA stuff) you will hear the greatest (IMO) Rock singer ever. And while a lot of the later stuff is pretty sappy there is still some good stuff like his vocals on Suspicious Minds and even Viva Las Vegas which was nicely covered by Shawn Colvin and others. vl


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Cluin
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 08:30 AM

Yep, before they cut his balls off in the army. Elvis WAS king. But he was still pretty damn good after his hitch was through.

What some people have said:

"Before Elvis there was nothing."
-- John Lennon

"I'm sitting in the drive-through and I've got my three girls in the back and this station comes on and it's playing "Jailhouse Rock," the original version, and my girls are jumping up and down, going nuts. I'm looking around at them and they've heard Dad's music all the time and I don't see that out of them."
-- Garth Brooks

"Describe Elvis Presley? He was the greatest who ever was, is or ever will be."
-- Chuck Berry

"Elvis Presley is like the 'Big Bang' of Rock 'n' Roll. It all came from there and what you had in Elvis Presley is a very interesting moment because, really, to be pretentious about it for a minute, you had two cultures colliding there. You had a kind of white, European culture and an African culture coming together - the rhythm, okay, of black music and the melody chord progressions of white music - just all came together in that kind of spastic dance of his. That was the moment. That's really it. Out of all that came the Beatles and the Stones, but you can't underestimate what happened. It does get back to Elvis."
-- Bono

"When I first heard Elvis' voice I just knew that I wasn't going to work for anybody; and nobody was going to be my boss...Hearing him for the first time was like busting out of jail.... The highlight of my career? That's easy, Elvis recording one of my songs."
-- Bob Dylan

"I learned music listening to Elvis' records. His measurable effect on culture and music was even greater in England than in the States."
-- Mick Fleetwood

"No-one, but no-one, is his equal, or ever will be. He was, and is supreme."
-- Mick Jagger

"Without Elvis, none of us could have made it."
-- Buddy Holly

"Elvis was a giant and influenced everyone in the business."
-- Isaac Hayes

"I remember Elvis as a young man hanging around the Sun studios. Even then, I knew this kid had a tremendous talent. He was a dynamic young boy. His phraseology, his way of looking at a song, was as unique as Sinatra's. I was a tremendous fan, and had Elvis lived, there would have been no end to his inventiveness... Elvis, he was unique. And he loved the blues, it was a pity he didn't do more."
-- B.B. King

"... he had a feel for rhythm in his voice. He could hear a song and he knew what he could do with a song. And nobody else could do it."
-- Scotty Moore (his lead guitarist)

"Elvis could do everything, from a very quiet sensual moan and groan to a high-panic scream and was willing to do it within the context of a three-minute song, with no inhibitions whatsoever."
-- Norbert Putman (His bassist)

"He was the firstest with the mostest....I saw Elvis live in '54. It was at the Big D Jamboree in Dallas and the first thing, he came out and spit on the stage…it affected me exactly the same way as when I first saw that David Lynch film. There was just no reference point in the culture to compare it to."
-- Roy Orbison

"This boy had everything. He had the looks, the moves, the manager, and the talent. And he didn't look like Mr. Ed like a lot of the rest of us did. In the way he looked, way he talked, way he acted - he really was different...We've lost the most popular man that ever walked on this planet since Christ himself was here."
-- Carl Perkins

vis was God-given, there's no other explanation. A Messiah comes around every few thousand years, and Elvis was it this time."
-- Little Richard

"...it was like he came along and whispered some dream in everybody's ear, and somehow we all dreamed it."
-- Bruce Springsteen

"That boy made his pull from the blues, if he's stopped, he's stopped, but he made his pull from there."
-- Muddy Waters

"Ask anyone. If it hadn't been for Elvis, I don't know where popular music would be. He was the one that started it all off, and he was definitely the start of it for me."
-- Elton John

"When I was 13, I saw him perform live and I suddenly understood what sex is all about. I was screaming at the top of my lungs."
-- Raquel Welch

"His kind of music is deplorable, a rancid smelling aphrodisiac...It fosters almost totally negative and destructive reactions in young people... I'm just a singer, Elvis was the embodiment of the whole American culture... There have been many accolades uttered about Elvis' talent and performances through the years, all of which I agree with wholeheartedly. I shall miss him dearly as a friend. He was a warm, considerate and generous man."
-- Frank Sinatra

"I love his music because he was my generation. But then again, Elvis is everyone's generation, and he always will be."
-- Margaret Thatcher

But people don't much like to see their idols grow older and show their mortality, do they? If he'd done a James Dean, he'd have been a god.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 10:28 AM

You would rave about him too if he worked in your chip shop.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 11:23 AM

There's only one Costello, and his name is Lou.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 11:33 AM

To answer the original question...He was an absolutely incredible live performer when he was young, that's why. Simple. He had the voice, the look, the moves, the charisma...devastating. After the stint in the army he began a long, slow decline, ruined by the fame and the great unholy $y$tem all around him.

Now, if that ain't good enough for ya, duelling-etc, let me come up with another answer.

Hmmm.

Okay, people rave about Elvis because they don't want to admit to secretly harbouring an unquenchable desire to share a hot tub with William Shatner! Yeah, that's it for sure...


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Chris Green
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 11:40 AM

And what, LH, is wrong with that, pray? I know I have! :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 11:40 AM

One word... sex!



I love that Richard Thompson song, thanks for posting the chords freda i've been looking for them for ages!:0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: GUEST,milk monitor
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 11:55 AM

There's only one Lou, and his name is Reed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 11:59 AM

There's only one Loo and I need it NOW


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:28 PM

There's only one loo and the cat's drinking out of it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:31 PM

Tell your cat to skip to muh . . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:34 PM

I want it to skip out of the loo. Have you any idea how difficult it is to pee with a cat watching?


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:39 PM

No. I'll have to try it and see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:44 PM

1) How big is the cat? (Didn't get it from Africa, did ya?)
2) The cat will leave as soon as the stream gets near him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:47 PM

I don't recommend it, frankly...the cat is big enough to disturb me when peeing, to the best of my knowledge she didn't come from africa...and i'm not aiming at her...:0)

I shall say no more. Horrendous thread creep, sorry! :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:49 PM

It's in the spirit of the thread. The cat is good to look at and can't sing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:52 PM

Lol...i disagree, but lol...


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Chris Green
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:53 PM

Tee-hee. Nice one, brucie! :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: frogprince
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 01:11 PM

I think Ebbie pegged one big part of it: "There was a vitality and drive to his songs that was very different from the Bing Crosby/Frank Sinatra era". The appearance of Elvis may have been the greatest moment of "and now for something completely different" in the history of music, (So far as nation-wide, mass market, awareness of music like that). It may also have been the first time American parents were that widely and fervently galvanized in moral outrage against what their kids were listening to; a lot of that was, as also mentioned above, "it was race music." I was indifferent to Elvis for many years, then heard some of the earliest stuff again, and all I once I thought, "What raw, vital, FUN stuff." I haven't put him at the top of my pantheon, but I've moved him up quite a ways.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 04:29 PM

Anyone who needs to ask the question probably lacks the resources to comprehend the answer. Just an opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 04:45 PM

Or the age, Strollin' Johnny. *G*


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 04:52 PM

Well Ebbie, you're right where I'm concerned - 57 goin' on 17 this year! LOL! But Mrs. Johnny's 29, and El's a God where she's concerned - second only to Robbie Williams! He's bridged the age gap there for sure.

And doesn't the fact that we're discussing him now, 27 years after his death, say something about him?

All the best gal,
S:0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 05:16 PM

I think young kids like Blissy may not be at all aware of young Elvis, the real Elvis, at all. Too many images floating around depicting the dreaded over-the-hill Elvis, and even much of the music plasyed on oldies radio is from his later, tamer period.

Those of us who were alive when Elvis first emerged into the spotlight encountered the real thing all at once, and he sure was something. What a disappointment to many of us when he so totally failed to live up to his promise -- although, of course, there were millions who only kept loving him more and more.

It wasn't the US Army who cut Elvis's balls off -- it was his manager Colonel Tom Parker. He signed him up, took an outrageously high percentage of his earnings, and made sure that musical and artistic concerns had no influence on any of his further development. Songs for his movie soundtracks and studio dates were selected on the basis of which ones would put the most money in Col. Tom's pocket, not on the basis of how they'd sound, or whether Elvis had any feeling for them, or even whether they were any damn good at all. No wonder Elvis got fat and took drugs.

Despite everything, though, the sumbitch could always sing, and even as an movie star he had a great, friendly screen presence (regardless of whther he could "act," i.e., portray anyone but himself).

Martin Gibson is right -- the earliest records are the best. Give a listen to "Blue Moon of Kentucky" and "That's Alright Mama" before you dismiss The King as a soft, obsolete old crooner.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 05:31 PM

Amen, Poppagator, Amen. Wise words indeed.
S:0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 05:47 PM

Er, that was dueling-b's, not miss bliss, who asked the initial question -- my bad. Sorry I got you two young ladies confused. I don't *really* know either one of you, don't even know if both are on the same continent, but I know just enough to think "oh right, one of those young chicks." That's what you get for hanging with all us old fifty-somethings, I guess.

Thanks for the endorsement there Johnny. ;D


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 06:01 PM

Elvis created a frenzy that has not been equaled by too many singers or groups. I recall a film of the Beatles landing in the US, and the tears in the eyes of a young lady at I think LaGuardia Airport--maybe it was Kennedy. Anyway, it just reminded me of similar scenes when Elvis was about. I have to agree that his early stuff helped define 'rock', and despite the later feeble attempts with songs like "In the Ghetto", nothing will take away his rightful place in the pantheon of great rock and rollers. He was a man for all seasons for a few seasons, and then the machine ate him up and spit him out. It's done that to lotsa good people. Also, drugs and drug abuse have taken their toll on the greats of the music industry. I was never a fan of Elvis, but ya'd have to be a real idiot to ignore the effect and affect he had on music. IMO, good looking is a dime a dozen; music like his early stuff is priceless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: LadyJean
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 11:20 PM

Pressley's handlers found "a white kid who could sing black." He could sing rock and roll like Black singers, but he was a nice, clean cut white kid that nice, clean cut, white girls could have crushes on.
I have never been an Elvis fan, but I just sent my sister, who collects clocks, an Elvis clock. The dial is on the torso. The legs swing back and forth. I bought it at a rummage sale, so I can't tell you where to get one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 01:12 AM

Then too, raving about Elvis is more fun than discussing politics endlessly...


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Peace
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 01:28 AM

I think people rave about Elvis because when we rave about Arbunkle von Hormanwalder XVIII, no one understands why.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Chris Green
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 06:57 AM

Er, I'm actually a bloke, Poppagator! :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 10:48 AM

Exactly, Bruce! Your incisive mind has gone straight to the heart of the matter as usual.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 12:45 PM

Dang! Once again, d.b., so sorry. :(

I got the "young" part right, at least, I trust :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 01:29 PM

Never thought I'd say this---Martin Gibson is dead right (19 Nov 2004   5:41 PM)


Bono said it too--in Cluin's 8:30 AM 20 Nov posting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Chris Green
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 01:38 PM

27! Youngish! :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 02:38 PM

They rave about him because he was a groundbreaker, like the Beatles, Dylan et al who followed him and were great in their own very different ways. Presley opened our minds to the new music, and popularised it in a way no-one else quite managed - even the other greats like Buddy, Jerry Lee, Eddie, didn't have the unique appeal of EP. Without Elvis, it's doubtful if we'd ever have had the Beatles, Dylan, The Eagles, U2, Oasis and the thousands of other artists whose music has its roots in Rock & Roll.

His appeal has crossed the age-barrier - and 27 years after his death we're still debating about him.

The King lives on.
S:0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Peace
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 03:08 PM

Yes, 27 is youngish. I didn't think so thirty years ago, but I do now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 03:39 PM

I rather think that if Elvis hadn't existed the music would have made it through without him.

"Nothing can withstand the force of an idea whose time has come." Victore Hugo wasn't talking about music when he wrote that, but he might have been.

Rock music was the wave of the future, and Elvis was riding in it - but if he hadn't been there, the wave was coming anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 08:23 PM

I remember seeing Elvis for the first time on the Ed Sullivan show. I was too young to know what he was all about but I knew something was happening when he started to shake his hips. I looked over at my dad to see what his reaction would be. Well - he was laughing so hard that tears were running down his cheeks. In his day, he was outrageous.

He broke through some barriers and the flood followed. He was a leader. Too bad about his being drafted and all those horrible movies and Las Vegas.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Once Famous
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 08:37 PM

What many don't seem to realize is that the young Elvis was considered just as much part of the country music scene as was Hank Snow, for example. In fact, Elvis used to open for Hank Snow and Col Tom Parker managed him at first like other country acts.

Elvis, like many other country acts got much of his start in performing on The Louisiana Hayride radio show over KWKH in Shreveport, La. The Hayride was considered the Triple-AAA minor leagues to the Grand Ole Opry and is where Hank Williams and Johnny Cash also both go there start.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 02:16 AM

I saw Elvis' US TV debut, which was NOT (as some now believe) on the Ed Sullivan Show.

The "summer replacement" program in Jackie Gleason's time slot was the Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey Show. The Dorsey brothers were swing-era bandleaders who had each led his own jazz orchestra in their 1940s heyday, but who were teamed up front a combined band and to co-host this short-lived TV variety show. Tommy was a trombone player; I forget Jimmy's instrument -- probably trumpet or sax, I'd guess.

Anyway, Elvis appeared on their show with his trio and played "Hound Dog," just as he would a couple of months later on the much-more-widely-watched Sullivan show. It's been a long time and I was pretty young, so I don't remember much in the way of detail, but:

a) There was little or no advance publicity, certainly less than there would be the following fall before the Sullivan appearance, so viewers were completely taken by surprise. I'm sure my parents had no idea how to react, beyond a stunned "Boy, that's crazy!" I was thinking, "Wow, that's amazing!."

b) I think the lack of preparation meant that the cameras would have showed Elvis from head to toe as he delivered his song. The Sullivan appearance has been noted for its semi-censorship -- the cameras were careful to shoot The King from the waist up only, cropping out his swivelling "Elvis the Pelvis" hips. They were probably forewarned by the reaction to the earlier Dorsey show appearance, whose relatively few viewers got to see the whole show.

Ed Sullivan's show was definitely broadcast nationwide from New York. I grew up in the NY media market (central NJ), and didn't always know which TV shows out of New York were local and which were national. The Dorsey Brothers summer series *may* have been local, but since they were holding down Jackie Gleason's time slot for the summer, and Gleason was probably nationwide by that time, their show was probably broadcast coast-to-coast, too -- although not everyone was watching. *Everyone* watched Sullivan on Sunday nights, though -- that's why Elvis (and later, the Beatles) made such an impresion by appearing on his program.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 02:23 AM

Man, I wish I'd seen it at the time. We didn't have a TV. On the other hand, not having the danged TV around till age 19 or 20 was probably the best thing that ever happened to me! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 02:23 AM

PoppaGator - Makes me wonder if in fact it was the earlier show I saw because I definitely remember the hips.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 02:37 AM

Elvis from the Sun years to early 60's was definitely the most bad-ass, big-voiced, crazy-legged, white Blues singer on the planet! After the Army however... I don't know what the hell happened!
When he made his "comeback" in the late 60's, you saw a bit of the old Elvis in him, but by the 70's he changed to the "Vegas Elvis" and went downhill pretty much until his demise...


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Cluin
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:27 AM

Hand-Pulled, when Declan McManus adopted the name Elvis Costello for the stage, it was as an homage to THE Elvis.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:29 AM

I must confess that I wasn't interested in Rock and Roll in my youth, but I watched some movies about it. I was a teenage boy scout and more interested in folk songs, but I wanted to know what young people saw in it. In one film young Elvis explained what to do with your hips when dancing to this music, and heigh ho! I immediately understood why the girls raved about him. He looked not bad, indeed, with his interesting haircut.
I liked Bill Haley more, Little Richard I always thought funny.
Elvis the Pelvis' handshake was weak and not what I expected from an American private (he served in my hometown), but I must confess: He had a remarkable voice and could sing in different styles, e.g. Muß i' denn zum Städtele hinaus, an old German parting folk song.
Nowadays we have an Elvis-Presley-Place in the center of my town, and every year the fans (many mothers in their late 50s) congregate to remember his birthday and dying day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:43 AM

Yes, you're right. There's only one Declan McManus!


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:26 AM

Wow! Wilfried, that is so cool that you lived in the town where he was stationed.

Seeing Elvis confined in the US Army was like seeing a magnificent wild creature confined in a little circus cage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:01 AM

dianavan, you undoubtedly DID see the Dorsey show appearance. A few milion people did see it; but many more millions missed it and saw Elvis first on Sullivan.

Wilfred, *great* story!


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 01:17 PM

The fact that Elvis let himself be drafted into the regular Army I think is just another indicator of his unsophisticated view of the world, and his perception of his role in it. Poor people have often been overtly 'patriotic'. Given his burgeoning career as a singer, he could easily gone into an entertainment troop.

As for his being 'different' after his military stint, I think a lot of that had to do with the sudden death of his mother. She was only in her mid40s when she died; Presley had been extraordinarily close to her.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:28 PM

Good insights, Ebbie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 06:13 PM

Yes, Ebbie, thanks for reminding us about the death of Elvis' mother. They *were* extraordinarily close indeed. The fact that Elvis was a twin -- his brother was either stillborn or died as an infant -- seems to have something to do with the psychology of their relationship.

I'm not so sure Elvis could have gotten out of the draft. He was a controversial public figure and I'm sure that many politicians wanted to make an example of him. Plus which, he trusted his manager, Col. Parker, who figured that Elvis's image would be best served by a patriotic response on his part, asking for no special privileges, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 09:17 AM

I was born in '59, so by the time that I started to have an interest in music I couldn't understand the whole Elvis thing. But having seen some early footage, having a much better understanding of what else was going musically and socially when he burst on to the scene and most importantly having heard Blue Moon of Kentucky and That's Allright Mama I understand why he as influential as he was. He also had a rock solid band. Unfortunately, it paved the way for all the tacky stuff that followed.

In my eyes Chuck Berry's sound shaped the sound of what would become Rock later on, and I truly believe that Jerry Lee Lewis would have surpassed Elvis in popularity if it weren't for "you know".


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: GUEST,James
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 09:43 AM

I think he is highly over rated. I liked the Sun stuff but after that he declined. I don't think he could hold a candle to Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, Little Richard or Chuck Berry. Dying young is also a good career move. I don't understand the hype either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:03 PM

I was 9 years old in 1956, and desperately in love with Kaye Starr. My favourite songs as I recall were "Wheel of Fortune", "Freight Train" and "Last Train to San Fernando". My cousin was 12, and I was deeply in love with her too. One very memorable night she girated to this song on the radio and I flipped. Elvis had arrived.

Nothing was ever the same after that moment... thanks to the King and the effect he had on all of us - Wow!! 1960 was a great time to turn teenager - before that, they hadn't been invented.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 02:35 PM

They had been invented, they were called bobby soxers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 03:15 PM

Well I loved Elvis - not all his films, but most of his records.

he could Ballads, r&b, (when it was r&b),rock, country.

Elvis was great. I can't really understand whats there not to like when hes at his best - which is most of the time.

Love the Thom Gunn poem


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 01:33 PM

This thread is being refreshed
in order that the Mudcatters
who are shouting at each other --
really -- about Elvis Presley,
on a Mudcat thread with a different singer's name on it,
can mosey on over here
and do the shouting and shoving here instead.

Those whose minds are already made up, in the meantime,
can disregard the following observation.

Elvis and Dean Martin: no, not the rock'n'roll/rockabilly stuff,
but the ballads, the crooner stuff.
I need to look deeper for this, to find a source or two,
but Elvis Presley is said to have commented on Dean Martin's ballad singing
as something he admired, to the point of imitation.

And Dean Martin made absolutely no secret of the fact
that he grew up listening to the Mills Brothers,
especially their slow sustained singing.
He wanted to sing ballads as either Donald Mills or Henry(?) Mills did.

Calling Elvis 'original' is superficial. The facts have layers;
and it is more to the point that
Elvis, directly or indirectly, sought out and followed
artists with a high standard, at least in the lyrical 'crooner' ballads.

Thanks for listening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 02:12 PM

Maybe someone else can remember, there is one specific black singer Elvis loved and studiously copied...

I bought a box set of his CDs a year or 2 ago, but buggered if I can recall his name,
or were that box set is...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 02:20 PM

Was it Jackie Wilson pfr?


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 03:00 PM

Arthur Crudup?


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 03:12 PM

found the email receipt... 8 CDs for eight quid... Roy Hamilton...


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 01:19 AM

Hey Chris, I ' m thinking that it's pretty open minded of you to try to
explore new ( or in this case, old) music based on fans love of the music
and their explaining the appeal. I myself have always exposed myself to different
styles of music- from pop to folk to standards, classical and jazz and certainly
Rock and blues. And when I play music. I m happy   to sing songs of anyone from
John Prine to the Avett Brothers to Tony Bennett.

But I' m sorry to disappoint you by saying I never really got the appeal
of Elvis. When I ve travelled south and attended folk clubs and jams, there's
still a great deal of Elvis fans ( usually older folks but not entirely ) who
still adore and emulate the King - in voice, clothes and song.

For me, I was too young to get caught in the Elvis craze and he seemed
'dated' from the first time I heard him on the ' oldies' station. Now should I hear Judy Garland sing Over the Rainbow; or for that matter, watch Fred and Ginger dance, they
still seem timeless and moving and universally relevant to me - and they were way before my time.

But Elvis as a breakthrough star of a certain time and place never
really appealed to me. I acknowledge his influence, and enjoy some of his songs,
but he has no real interest for me. Nothing against him either really, but just no interest.


Maybe best for you to ask some zealous fans on an Elvis or oldies site. At least
you!d get a response from people who genuinely enjoyed the man and his music. And if you have the chance, let us know if anyone changed your opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 01:29 AM

PS - just noticed how old this thread was. So I'd guess Chris isn't likely
to get back to us now and tell if anyone changed his opinion Maybe someone else here has had a change of mind about him But this thread interested me b/c I have diverse tastes - but   never really got the understanding of his huge appeal. Yet he's still on the map, but I suspect ; not so much with us folkies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why do people rave about Elvis?
From: leeneia
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 11:23 AM

I was never a fan, but my aunt and uncle saw Elvis on stage in Wichita, and they said he was a spectacular showman. He loved being onstage, and they loved being in the audience. That counts for something.


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