BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Once Famous
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 01:57 PM

That's because what you say Bill H. has virtually no impact and what I do seems to. I guess you are just jealous.

Another end of a meaningless thread of hypothetical bullshit be a few who think they know so much.

Goodnight Chet
Goodnight David

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 07:30 PM

A PS---I am sorry that the topic got off what it was intended for. A truly tragic situation that, on this thread, has escalated to nonsense (many people aside) thanks to our well spoken (from the sewer area) Martin G.

Bill H

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 07:28 PM

SO--Martin Gibson is a well known ill willed and poor communicator that is also a pain in the area close to the rectum. Seems like others seem to appreciate the fact.


Bill H

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 03:59 AM

Hi Martin, still alive and well I see. Never mind.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 11:42 AM

Yeah, on her head.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 05:25 AM

You old cynic, dianavan! Might have a point though.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: GUEST,US
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 01:36 AM

Boab:

Terrorists like the ones that murdered Hassan and assholes that try to label the coalition forces as terrorists.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: dianavan
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 01:38 AM

Here's my conspiracy theory.

The U.S. knew that she was being held hostage in Falluja somewhere. They also knew that she would probably die in the massacre so they set up the video to cover their butts before they led the assault.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Boab
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 01:21 AM

Guest US---just which side are you condemning in your last post?

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Peace
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 12:44 AM

[[It is violence against civilians or similar noncombatants, especially in order to achieve political or similarly ideological aims. Insurgents bombing armed opposing soldiers in a guerilla war is not terrorism, although of course it might be thus labelled for propaganda reasons.]]

from a google of this

Terrorist Definition

Kind of a tidy view, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: GUEST,US
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 12:34 AM

Terrorist

adj : characteristic of someone who employs terrorism (especially as a political weapon); "terrorist activity"; "terrorist state" n : a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 11:57 PM

in·sur·gent    ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-sûrjnt) adj.
Rising in revolt against established authority, especially a government.
Rebelling against the leadership of a political party.

n.
One who is insurgent.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: GUEST,US
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 10:40 PM

Body found in Iraq wasn't Hassan

Reuters UK Wed 1 December, 2004 16:16

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 08:16 PM

Thats right. http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200412/s1255989.htm

Presumed dead but no body to prove she's dead.

So who is the dead woman?

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 06:23 PM

Dental records say that the body was not hers. The hooded figure might not be her. Unlikely. Her family still presumes she is dead.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 06:20 PM

You are, I presume, speaking about yourself when you talk of the "rats"---I was so sure I might have the pleasure of meeting you washed up on the tide of trash. Even expand my vocabulary with your help in your home area.

Bill H

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 10:14 PM

Say hello to Ed Norton for me when you are down there.

I'm sure the rats down there will enjoy one of your lectures.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 06:15 PM

OH Martin you are so quotable---I must use your way with words the next time I am in a sewer.

Bill H

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 03:57 PM

Nothing.

Fucking Islam fascist pigs have everything to do with it.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: freda underhill
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 12:41 PM

what does this have to do with Margaret Hassan?

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: GUEST,US
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 10:14 AM

Yes, the Media is also to blame for the hostage taking and murders. The terrorists use the media to get to the people who will protest the war.

Israel does not have to deal with many hostage situations so they are better off. They are faced with suicide bombers.

I think Israel is learning that they must withdraw from Palestinian land like Gaza. However there are extremists on the Israeli side that are fighting it.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: InOBU
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 08:16 AM

Dear Uncle Sam:

"Israel has a policy of never meeting the demands of hostage takers. Instead they try to find and rescue the hostages. Are they worse off because of this policy?"

Are they better off? Seems to me that this policy linked to plantations in occupied lands in homes and on farms litterally stollen from Palistinian families has not brought about peace. You don't often make peace by throwing folks out of their homes, any less than you make peace by suicide bombers. You make peace by acting reasonably.

We have been culpable in making the world which has given rise to the present horror, and in stead of giving back in kind, which leads to an unending cycle of revenge, it is time we stoped electing leadership which conciders the stockholders and directors of Haliburton as their base.

A degree of peace and the begining of an reasonable outcome in Ireland came about when Britan no longer needed a war in Ireland (see the threads about NATO and Ireland). Suddunly it was possible to negotiate with "terrorists" and the political dynamic changed. The criminal description suddunly was placed on loyalists, and the republicans who were terrorists yesterday became statesmen today. But, still we get led down the gardin path towards wars that are waged on a bed of lies and we pay the price.

I wish those who think nonsence like this war and the patriot act could have spent time in the northern counties of Ireland in the seventies, and seen that all this theater does not make you safer.

All the best
Larry

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Ooh-Aah2
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 02:40 AM

Gibson doesn't need asprin, he needs ritalin. Strewth what a moron!

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 09:57 PM

So much for nuance, I suppose----Martin Gibson.   Islam and Fascism are totally incongruent. $5.00 words aside one could have a whole discussion on that---my point was more than the one word you so wonderfully quoted and had little to do with the point.

The point was publicity, terrorism, and our failed policy.

Always good to see your one line diatribes---Dick Gregory and Godfrey Cambridge did it better and more cleverly. Mort Sahl too.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 09:35 PM

Cut the crap about "insurgents." They are Islam fascists. Insurgents, my ass.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 09:09 PM

Much of the problem is in the media---don't give these hostage takers the platform they seek and slowly (and hopefully--surely) they will crawl back into the woodwork with the rest of the termites.

Their cause is only aided by publicity. And they know it.

Israel has the right idea---no negotiations---find the kidnappers and try to release the hostages-----would we had another Entebbe.

As to terrorists---we hit the bee's nest and now they are swarming---so much for the nonsense of ridding the world of terrorism by this administration. They merely covered their asses for the intelligence foul-up and then created a situation they wanted all along---control of the region. Not going to work. Talk about nation building---sounds more like Imperialism---after all---where were we with the African problems and others---no oil, and no interest.

Frightening picture in today's NY Times of our troops wading off of this generation of "swift boats" trying to capture insurgents---they joke about Nam. As Pete Seeger wrote---"...when will they ever learn".

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: GUEST,US
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 07:40 PM

silliness said here, blaming antiwar folks

I don't regard it as silliness. Those innocent people are murdered to stir up the "antiwar folks" and make them protest to end the war.

If you disagree, why?

Why would terrorists take the time to kill innocent people instead of someone trying to kill them?

Israel has a policy of never meeting the demands of hostage takers. Instead they try to find and rescue the hostages. Are they worse off because of this policy?


Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Boab
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 03:09 AM

Larry---you tell all of us. Your posting should end the contention on this thread. Thanks for speaking.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 09:10 PM

Yes

Art

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: freda underhill
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 06:57 AM

What a great comment, thanks so much Larry.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: InOBU
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 06:53 AM

You know friends, there has been a lot of silliness said here, blaming antiwar folks etc. Well, frankly, having lost a friend in Iraq, a dear, gentle, courageous man, Arthur Helton, who was killed in the blast which leveled the UN office, the fact is that people like Arthur and Margaret Hassan go to work for peace in these places. They did so successfully, in the face of many dangers for many years. They did not go to kill for peace. The increase in danger that killed them came about as a direct result of a war begun, not for the people of Iraq, but for the greed of Neo Coms. For the many years that I had the privilege of knowing Arthur, I often asked him about the things he saw, and was somewhat amused that he would not speak about the horror or suffering he saw in Bosnia, or other war zones to which he went, as a UNHCR official, but he would speak in great detail about the logistics of the work. Delivering aid was his soul thought, saving lives in the gun sites - a calm force of good in the worst situations in which humanity tortures itself. I beg those of you who rattle sabers at each other, not to claim our friends as your martyrs, they are not. They are martyrs for peace and humanity.
All the best
Larry Otway

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 10:48 PM

You won't tell me jack, Boob. It won this arguement as far as I'm concerned because you are so done they could put a fork in you.

I will tell you everytime when I think you are full of crap.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Boab
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 03:13 AM

Ah, well, "f--k off" never ever won an argument. It does end most of them , however. If that was your aim, little man, you have indeed scored a win. See you on another thread. If you misbehave, I will tell you...

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 01:02 AM

Way I figure it, those guys that killed Mrs. Hassan are on some sort of freakout tweaker trip. There wasn't any THOUGHT fer gawd's sake!

Talk about a nest of paranoid rattlesnakes!!!

A friend of mine is convinced that World War Three has started.

CB

PS will you folks please quit yelling at each other?

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 10:01 AM

Here's one for you pure and simple, Boob:

Fuck off.

And Guess, JTT you are just making excuses

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Boab
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 04:10 AM

Aw shit!--I give up. The guy can't even manufacture a decent insult!
Guest JTT---a perfect summary Sir.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 03:27 AM

I've read this thread with dismay and sorrow.

One of the reasons that we go to war is that we find it hard to hear someone shouting abuse at us without replying in the same terms - and so it escalates.

Getting back to the cruel murder of Margaret Hassan, I find GUEST's "sacred killing" explanation fascinating. It brought me to a halt, as I thought about killings in my own country like those of Louis Mountbatten, Pat Finucane, and so on. You've educated me, GUEST, thank you.

I think that Margaret Hassan was the victim of a serial killer, though. The extreme violence done to her body - arms, legs and head cut off, torso disembowelled - is not the act of an activist but of someone with a psychopathic nature.

War allows people who would otherwise be hunted and jailed for their crimes to play at will. This is so on every "side" - I have no doubt that there are psychopathic killers among the American, English, Scottish, and other coalition soldiers, and also among the Iraqis and their own coalition of helpers.

Yes, her visible terror when making videos shows how she must have been tormented; her tragic end was the act of a murderer.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 10:36 PM

Thank you once again, Ake.

You continue to be one of the astute ones here.

And, Guest, Boab, you continue to be one adult who seriously has a problem with the heartbreak of diaper rash.

Must be hard to go through life so chafed all of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 01:25 PM

Boab...I hope you didn't think my last post meant my agreement with any of Martins ideas.   I am much more in tune with your phylosophy.

But yet there is something so gloriously politically incorrect about his posts,most of which I think are tongue in cheek.

In this time and especially on this forum, when we have to scrutinise everything we write lest we are jumped on by arseholes screaming bigot or racist, its refreshing to see someone who just lets it all hang out....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 01:01 PM

Way to go Boab!!
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 07:59 PM

Dear little Martin--
When you grow up [ if ever], you may at some stage learn to judge your fellow-humans more astutely. You seem unable to tell the difference btween an "American hater" and a plain "evil-hater".
Y'know, I don't know the nationalities or the religious affiliation of more than half the folks who contribute to these contentious threads. Some have made both conditions obvious. What does shine through almost without exception, however, are their moral values.
    Now---to this "American-hater" stuff. I am wed to one of the finest Ladies ever reared in the City of Chicago. I attended [and provided music at] the wedding of another long time American friend just last Saturday; met the family, too--all fine people. I visit and regularly communicate with a Vietnam vet in Illinois. And his views and yours are at opposite ends of the spectrum, believe me. My partner exchanges visits with a real sweet lass from 'Frisco, who DIDN'T vote for the Bush candidate, and who is Jewish, and detests Sharon and all in Israel who share his foul intentions.
    American hater? Me? Doesn't that mean that I must detest Bobert, Little Hawk [is he American?] and all who see the filth sticking to BOTH sides?
   Martin---you haven't had your aspirin yet. Try it--it might help.
And I'm admitting here and now, this posting was for EVERYBODY who reads the Mudcat forums; not only for those who try to defend foul beliefs by insulting all who dress, look and think differently from themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 05:58 PM

She was an admirable woman for many reasons, but when I read in the one article linked to these sentences
This city of 5 million was a very safe city. There was stealing, but not acts of violence against people.
I must say she also was a bit naive. (or: cited completely out of context)

The streets in Hitler's Germany were also safer than after the war, seen from a point of view of an unpolitical German with the right ethnic background.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 05:37 PM

Margaret Hassan is a martyr to new Iraq

a beacon of hope

wikipedia on Margaret Hassan

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 05:22 PM

you know, for some strange reasons i thought that article would satisfy a lot of people, because it was uncompromising in its condemnation of Margaret Hassan's murder, yet also pointed out some hard truths about whats happening in iraq right now.

why not take five minutes to remember Margaret Hassan and the wonderful work she did for decades.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: GUEST,US
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 05:15 PM

Anti-war protesters are Stalin's "Useful Idiots":


know the people I'm talking about. They are for peace and always against war, even after September 11. They think patriotism is racist and abusive.


Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: TIA
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 12:54 PM

"There are thousand of things in the chain of events that would have spared her life..."

Agreed, aboslutely positively.

"...including a swifter end to the war if the anti-war protesters were not giving the terrorists the idea that they can win using the anti-war sentiment stirred up by killing Hassan."

Baloney, on so many levels.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: GUEST,US
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 12:21 PM

Tia:

Possibly so but If Saddam had heeded the UN resoultions would Hassan be alive today?

If The UN was not corrupted by the Oil For Food program would Hassan be alive today?

There are thousand of things in the chain of events that would have spared her life including a swifter end to the war if the anti-war protesters were not giving the terrorists the idea that they can win using the anti-war sentiment stirred up by killing Hassan.

Would people still be having their tounges cut out, tortured in many ways and entire familys murdered If the coalition had not invaded Iraq?

The answer to that is definately yes.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 12:09 PM

Yeah whatever. Beat you to it.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 12:09 PM

Yeah whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: the murder of Margaret Hassan
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 12:09 PM

Took balls to post again, Johnny.

Thanks.