BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!

Subject: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 02:27 PM

Fellow Americans on this site:

We live in the greatest country in the world, and although we are not perfect, we know that overall we have got a lot of good things going here.

Let me tell you that I am thankful for all of the good in my life, and I want to wish you a happy and healthy Thanksgiving holiday.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 02:32 PM

It is a great country but why is it THE greatest...there are a lot of GREAT countries, aren't there ?

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 02:40 PM

Thanx, Martin. Same back at ya.

S

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 02:50 PM

First Guest

It's just so obvious to us why we are the greatest.

I guess by not living here, you just can't really understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 02:59 PM

Same to you.

I was born there and have a lot to be grateful for in having had the privileges I was offered.

If you think it's the greatest, Martin, then for you it is.

For me, I hope that on Thursday, the people of America will remember in their gratitude that there is a responsibility to being a great country, and that's in not forgetting how it became that way...good or bad...our history is mixed up with the history of the rest of the world.

We just need to remember that, IMHO.

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 03:01 PM

Perhaps, but I think many of us have had enough of the rest of the world telling us what we should and should not be over here.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 03:12 PM

The US of A was the first, and is still the only, nation on earth founded upon IDEALS of freedom and democracy, not simply on the genetic/geographic accident of "nationality."

Sure, half of the Founders who gave us all those stirring words about the Rights of Man were slaveowners, most of the rest of 'em may have been "robber baron" capitalists, and over the years there's been *plenty* of hypocricy, greed and other forms of imperfection, but the American people as a whole have always done a pretty good job of trying to measure up to the country's stated ideals -- even though we obviously haven't gotten there yet.

Sometimes we may stray pretty far off the desired path, but the mechanisms we have in place, along with the essentially good-hearted nature of the American people as a whole, provide plenty of hope that things will never get totally out of whack, so bad that they stay that way. We'll always spring back to a tolerably righteous state.

I've never been one to say I'm "proud" to be an American, but I certainly feel *lucky* to have born at the time and place where I was.

So -- Happy Thanksgiving, all. Enjoy the triptophane and football!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 03:25 PM

From the other greatest country in the world, Happy Thanksgiving.

We had ours in October.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 03:38 PM

We should all be grateful for our health, prosperity and abundance.

I agree it is also a time to reflect on our responsibility to share the gifts we have been given simply because of our place of birth.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: jacqui.c
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:32 PM

This will be my first Thanksgiving in this country. I agree that it is a great country but I would say that anyone who is proud of their nationality should be asking what they have done for their country - to ensure its continuing greatness.

Kennedy's words come to mind - I don't know the exact quote but it was something like 'Don't ask what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country' and that applies to every person in this world IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 09:24 PM

You can keep the nationalist sentiments, thank you very much. I feel privleged to have been born in the US and to live pretty damn well at the margins of society, something that really can't be done in most other countries.

I too am sick and tired of the rest the world bitching at us, which is why I say, this Turkey Day:

US OUT OF IRAQ!!! BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW, AND KEEP THEM HOME FOR CHRISSAKE!!!

Thank you.

P.S. Please leave the Iraqi's their oil, and stop bombing the hell out of innocent people too while we're at it. The world will certainly thank us for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: jimmyt
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 09:28 PM

I think everyone who reads this thread should consider the concept that Martin had when he started the thread. I hope you have a pleasent THanksgiving Martin. I hope all of the people who obsrve Thanksgiving this Thursday and all of those who don't have a pleasent week.   At this time of year, it is time for me to reflect on everything I am thankful for and I count Mudcat as one of thos special things. Have a happy holiday all!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 09:35 PM

I just knew it would draw out morons like the Guest 2 posts out.

To him, on the "fringe of society" I would like to say that he chokes on his own vomit.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 09:50 PM

What an inspiring thought!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 10:04 PM

All I can say is Martin, you should be ashamed of yourself, saying happy thanksgiving with the ulterior motive of flushing out people to insult.

I'm sure that's not the idea behind this festival at all.

On a more serious note, when I was a kid I grew up in town of Boston in Lincolnshire, and every day I used to bike past the Guildhall where the poor old pilgrim fathers were imprisoned after their first abortive attempt at escaping England in 1607.

the American people certainly have a lot to be proud of in their history, and if they want to call their country the greatest - well that's okay with me. Its just like some people think they had the greatest Mum in the world. Love makes it seem that way.

happy Thanksgiving.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 10:06 PM

Happy Thanksgiving to America from Scotland. A not really that great but gloriously self-effacing nation :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: DougR
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 12:12 AM

I refuse to bring politics into the celebration of a great holiday. I am grateful that I was born in a country that is free, that has respect for individuality and the opinions of others. I am grateful for those who are giving their lives in foreign countries to help ensure that we continue to have a free society. I do regret that there are many who are equally as lucky, but fail to recognize it.

I hope all Mudcatters who celebrate Thanksgiving have a good one, that they are surrounded by folks that they love on this very special day.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 02:20 AM

And I am thankful for the abundance of food that is truly Native American:

potatoes, corn, cranberries, turkey, squash, pumpkins and I'm sure there's more.

Thanks for sharing.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 09:19 AM

Many of my Native American friends fast on Thanksgiving--their interpretation of what was done to them by Europeans when they came, which was largely kill them all off and steal their land.

I treat the day like I do any of the nationalist holidays. A day off of work. Sure I'll feast with family for mom's sake, but once she is gone, I'll be free for a four day weekend to do what I like every year, rather than spend it with relatives who annoy me.

That will be something to be thankful for.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 09:30 AM

Irregardless of one's morals or politics Thanksgiving presents each of us an opportunity to reflect on our blessings and take this time to give thanks for each and every one of them.

I am especially thankfull for my friends her in Mudville, my wife, the P-Vine and to have this opportunity to be with her sons and their families here in North Carolina.

And I'm thankfull for this disfunctional but caring community we have here in the Catbox and for the the folks over at Tweedsblues...

Sniff...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Davetnova
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 09:49 AM

From Scotland, truly the greatest country in the world, I wish all you yanks a happy thanksgiving holiday.
And Martin I hope you have the holiday you deserve.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 10:03 AM

I deserve a great one, Scotty.

and I'm going to have it, too.


weelittledrummer, it wasn't my intention to flush anyone out to insult.

they just seem to materialize all by themself so easily.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 10:54 AM

We may not be perfect, we may have HUGE problems, but there is nothing wrong with saying we are the "greatest". Nationalism does not have to be a sin. Everyone should have pride in their country (whatever country they may live in) and give thanks for the benefits we have received while also remembering the work that needs to be done. We've made mistakes in the past and we are making some currently and the tragedy of our native Americans SHOULD be remembered every Thanksgiving. While I understand the reason many people boycott the holiday, I find it a defeatist attitude. Ignoring problems do not make them go away. I take pride in being a liberal, and being a liberal means working hard to fix things - not getting into insults with people who think differently than we do. I also enjoy the traditions of celebration.

Thanksgiving is a special day to celebrate the family and our country. I wish all Mudcatters a wonderful holiday.   Even if you live in another country, I hope you have similar holiday that honor your family and your country.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Big Mick
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 11:34 AM

Tough one, and I am writing on the fly, so I hope it comes out right.

We are a great nation. Of that there can be no question. If we were not, so many other nations wouldn't be trying to grab what is best about our society, while ignoring the less desirable parts. Much that is good and civilized in our world came from concepts we either came up with or borrowed, and then improved on. While we didn't save the world during the World Wars, the outcomes of them would likely have been very different without our participation.

We are not as free, and individuals are not as respected, as some would have us believe. But we do have more individual liberties than the citizens of many parts of this world. Our democracy is far from perfect. Yet with all the power and motive, we still manage to pass the reins of power every four years without using guns to do it.

Our interventionist policies around the world are troubling. This is not new. I think back over the last fifty five years and I see more examples of ill thought out, or just plain wrong interventions than just ones. When I see a President that simply doesn't get that we are a great nation, but there are many great nations, that treats our historical allies as though they were puppets created to do our bidding, I despair. Yet I know the people of this land, and they truly care about spreading democratic ideals. They truly believe that giving people a stable democratic form of government is the way to share the bounty of this land and its institutions.

The capitalists of this land distress me more than virtually any other component of our society. They are willing to sacrifice the children of other lands, in order to provide toys for our own, and profits for themselves. They are willing to utilize prison labor in other countries to provide cheap jeans for us in this country. They are willing to destroy the middle class here in favor of the emerging marketplace of China. Time after time I see them use labor laws, that they have paid to have weakened, against the workers that the laws were designed to protect. They then force the workers into a strike situation and use it to send the jobs offshore. They do this so they can remain "competitive", not because they aren't profitable, but because they are want to be more profitable. And for this they will sacrifice whole families.

But for all that, this land still offers the greatest hope. We are still the beacon on the hill. Our system, though weakened by money and self interest, still has the best chance to recover in a progressive and humanistic manner. When I see things like the European Union, and how they are tailoring their model on the things we have done that make sense, while at the same time using the inherent strengths of those societies, I know that much of what we have accomplished will in part make the world a better place. I know that we have spawned hope.

And I guess that is what I am thankful for. The hope. The wish that we will realize our potential for humane, caring, greatness. I am thankful for the opportunity to keep trying until we get it right. I am thankful that this society is, essentially, free, and allows me to communicate with friends all over this planet. I am thankful for Max and his wonderful creation, because I have come to know how the rest of the world sees what we see.

First and foremost, I am thankful for my family. I am thankful to my God for the wonderful cast of characters that were placed here to help me become, for better or worse, what I am. I am thankful for the knowledge that life is a series of roads without end, and I love the one I am travelling.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 11:36 AM

Ron, I don't think that you even need a family or a country to be thankful for wonderful things in life.

I don't think you even need to be a liberal to fix things. After all, conservatives fix things that liberals muck up all of the time. It's far from a one way street on that, you know.

I do agree that boycotting the holiday is really only cheating one's self. No one cares, really. Holidays like this are for creating or maintaining traditions. They are special days when it is better to be thankful for whatever good you have.

to those who consider their glass half empty, it's really emptier than you realize.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 11:45 AM

Martin, you are right - conservatives AND liberals are constantly fixing up each others mistakes. I was speaking for myself when I brought up one of the reasons I am thankful. I am also a bit taken aback when I see others who consider themselves to be liberals that spout nothing but doom and gloom. As you point out, the glass should not be considered half empty. Challenges should not be considered roadblocks. Eyes on the prize.

I also think you summed it up perfectly - you do not need a family or country to be thankful. The holiday does celebrate those institutions, but it is a special day where we can reflect on the gifts we have received in our daily lives.   Often we ignore the simple and beautiful things in life including our freedoms.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 11:55 AM

Ron,

PLEASE have a great holiday!

Doom and gloom is just not for me. Or you.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 11:56 AM

All of you going somewhere drive carefully, arrive safely, and return home healthy -- and happy that you took the trouble. Eat to satisfaction, and after the holiday, continue whatever you've been doing locally to make sure others have enough -- to eat, shelter from the elements, education, info/knowledge, understanding of peace. When you get back to the Cafe let us know you're OK. Tell us if you've learned something new, or a new way to see or say something true. Appreciate the individuals you will share the time with and tell them so. Each of those different individuals contributes to who you are and your capacity for love and understanding. Share music to make others' lives better. Be careful in the kitchen.
Thank you all for your time and attention.    Tw

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 12:01 PM

You too Martin!   I am really looking forward to a wonderful day!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: GUEST,John Bull
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 12:03 PM

Happy thanksgivin' american cousins, though I must still state that the Antartic research stations collective is still the greatest nation in the world. Least amount of conflict.

John Bull

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 01:17 PM

To all of you, near and far, I wish a happy Thanksgiving. While our ideal of the day started with giving thanks for friends and surviving in the new world, it can truly be said that despite our troubles we all have been blessed countless times throughout the year and there is someone that should be thanked for that. Whether it's Mom and Dad or a more divine personage.

Please take a moment to remember our folks on duty and across the seas keeping watch when you sit down to feast with family and friends. I know that they would wish you a happy Thanksgiving.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: tarheel
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 06:01 PM

thank you ,martin gibson....may God Bless You,too and Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!!!
it's a great country that we live in and God has certainly blessed us who trust in Him and His word!....regards,tar

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 06:32 PM

Him? How are you so sure it isn't Her??

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: darkriver
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 07:45 PM

Martin,

   Thank you and the same to you.

Big Mick,

   Thank YOU, sir, for your wonderful message.

I hope we'll all be doing this again next year...


Doug (aka darkriver)

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: jaze
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 10:01 PM

Bless your soul, Martin. Have a great Thanksgiving!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 10:59 PM

Happy Thanksgiving, Martin, and to all.

Ron Olesko, my sentiments as well, though I couldn't have put them any better than you have.

Chanteyranger

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 11:19 AM

DougR--no politicizing Thanksgiving? Don't make me laugh. Thanksgiving has become another nationalist propaganda day to promote the US military. Remember your Bushie boy's surprise visit to Baghdad?

Like I said, once Mom is gone, I'm free of this phony nationalist crap for a 4 day weekend. Thanksgiving is the phoniest of phony nationalist holidays, a slap in the face to the indigenous peoples of the entire continent, and just another pathetic excuse for certain industries to go into capitalist overdrive.

Being the most arrogant, belligerent, hostile imperial nation on the planet isn't exactly something to brag about, which is why the lot of you choose to remain in denial about for the sake of phony holiday harmony.

Fuck that shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 11:48 AM

And for those of you who obviously don't know your history of the holiday, the institutional nationalist holiday we know today as Thanksgiving was started by Lincoln, in an effort to heal the wounds of the Civil War, in 1863. However it was not universally celebrated. FDR moved the holiday to appease the retail industry, which pissed off the Republicans, who seem to think they own the holiday to this very day, and the holiday was celebrated on two different days, depending upon one's political party affiliations.

Congress didn't declare the holiday as a legal holiday until 19041.

So much for the sacredness of ancient traditions of Thanksgiving. The racist propaganda US students are taught in school about this holiday is despicable, I might add. Horrible racist depictions of Native Americans and the so-called "First Thanksgiving" and teaching totally ignores Lincoln's attempt to use the holiday as a means of bringing the nation together that was almost universally rejected in the South.

No, no. We'll just keep playing the delusional American "let's pretend" how great we are, as usual.

It is good to be reminded this is a National Day of Mourning for many Native American people. It is good to be reminded this holiday isn't what the propaganda makes it out to be. It is good to be reminded of the true history of the nationalist holidays people celebrate thoughtlessly like patriot automatons.

And finally, I hope I've given Martin Gibson's thread all the consideration he deserves for his phony and insincere attempt to suck up to the people he shits on every other day of the year around here.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: Dave Swan
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 11:48 AM

Thanksgiving is my favorite of the holidays. I'm on duty today, thankful to have a job and benefits. We'll celebrate with a big dinner between calls.

Jon Carroll of the San Francisco Chronicle writes a Thanksgiving piece annually. It's worth your time to read it. Here's a link to his Grat Etude.

Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.

Cheers,

D

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Thanksgiving America!
From: SINSULL
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 12:53 PM

Happy Thanksgiving, all. On this day as on all others, I am grateful for my life, my health, my friends, and my love ones. And thanks for starting this thread, Martin.