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BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners

Amos 29 Nov 04 - 06:15 PM
GUEST,John O'Lennaine 29 Nov 04 - 06:30 PM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Nov 04 - 06:32 PM
Amos 29 Nov 04 - 08:18 PM
Peace 29 Nov 04 - 08:58 PM
Amos 29 Nov 04 - 09:54 PM
The Shambles 30 Nov 04 - 02:11 AM
Billy the Bus 30 Nov 04 - 03:19 AM
Partridge 30 Nov 04 - 04:25 AM
The Shambles 30 Nov 04 - 05:35 AM
Amos 30 Nov 04 - 05:42 AM
The Shambles 30 Nov 04 - 09:39 AM
The Shambles 30 Nov 04 - 09:43 AM
Cluin 30 Nov 04 - 09:49 AM
The Shambles 30 Nov 04 - 11:12 AM
The Shambles 30 Nov 04 - 11:16 AM
wysiwyg 30 Nov 04 - 11:17 AM
MMario 30 Nov 04 - 11:19 AM
Cluin 30 Nov 04 - 11:21 AM
Peace 30 Nov 04 - 01:34 PM
Amos 30 Nov 04 - 06:15 PM
The Shambles 30 Nov 04 - 08:09 PM
darkriver 01 Dec 04 - 02:11 AM
The Shambles 01 Dec 04 - 02:39 AM
chris nightbird childs 01 Dec 04 - 02:41 AM
*Laura* 03 Dec 04 - 05:28 PM
The Shambles 03 Dec 04 - 06:19 PM
Amos 03 Dec 04 - 07:13 PM
*Laura* 04 Dec 04 - 07:15 PM
The Shambles 05 Dec 04 - 02:58 AM
*Laura* 05 Dec 04 - 01:20 PM
The Shambles 06 Dec 04 - 12:27 PM
The Shambles 06 Dec 04 - 12:30 PM
Wolfgang 07 Dec 04 - 07:40 AM
Amos 07 Dec 04 - 08:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 10 Nov 06 - 08:54 AM
GUEST,CrazyEddie 10 Nov 06 - 10:23 AM
Barry Finn 10 Nov 06 - 04:39 PM

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Subject: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 06:15 PM

Dolphins save swimmers from shark

Wednesday 24 November 2004, 0:33 Makka Time, 21:33 GMT  




A pod of dolphins circled protectively round a group of New Zealand swimmers to fend off an attack by a great white shark, media reported on Tuesday.

Lifesavers Rob Howes, his 15-year-old daughter Niccy, Karina Cooper and Helen Slade were swimming 100m off Ocean Beach near Whangarei on New Zealand's North Island when the dolphins herded them - apparently to protect them from a shark.


"They started to herd us up, they pushed all four of us together by doing tight circles around us," Howes told the New Zealand Press Association (NZPA).


Howes tried to drift away from the group, but two of the bigger dolphins herded him back just as he spotted a three-metre great white shark swimming towards the group.


"I just recoiled. It was only about two metres away from me, the water was crystal clear and it was as clear as the nose on my face," Howes said. "They had corralled us up to protect us," he said.


Protective instinct


The lifesavers spent the next 40 minutes surrounded by the dolphins before they could safely swim back to shore.


The incident happened on 30 October, but the lifesavers kept the story to themselves until now.


Environment group Orca Research said dolphins attacked sharks to protect themselves and their young, so their actions in protecting the lifesavers was understandable.


"They could have sensed the danger to the swimmers and taken action to protect them," Orca's Ingrid Visser told NZPA.

Reuters


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 06:30 PM

Apparently there have been numerous instances when dolphins have protected humans from sharks.

It has been so prevalent that in some circles it is believed that where there are dolphins there is no danger of shark attack. Unfortunately this is not true. While dolphins are able and sometimes willing to protect humans from sharks, they may not.

Interesting thing. What exactly does it tell us about how dolphins regard us? That they think some of us are worth saving and some of us not worth the effort? Or that some of them will save us and some of them won't be bothered?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 06:32 PM

That heading got me wondering if things had moved on significantly from controversies about gay weddings...


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 08:18 PM

LOL, Kevin.

The thing is that humans and dolphins have a very limited set of interactions -- they are not domesticated by us, unlike horses, dogs, and cats. We aren't their food source and we haven't trained them except for a small handful of individuals. So this sort of highly socilaized behaviour is quite a phenomenon.

I have heard other stories -- some well documented and others not -- about cetaceans, delfinae and orcas showing this kind of intelligent, socilaized conduct. It just leads you to wonder how much 'awareness' is going on across that species divide, and how it works.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: Peace
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 08:58 PM

Dolphins protecting humans, helping humans and guiding humans has a history that has been documented for over two thousand years.

Dolphins and sharks are enemies, and dolphins do not always win the fight. If they are able to attack the shark and use their noses to butt the underbellies, they hit hard enough to rupture internal organs and the sharks limp off and die. However, if the shark gets first dibs in, the dolphin ain't gonna win. (I am assuming it was bottle-nosed dolphins involved.

They are beautiful, intelligent creatures, and I think it was a Dr Liddy (?) in 1967 who did great research into their ultrasonic communication.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 09:54 PM

I remember -- he had a foundation in the FLorida Keys and was trying to learn their language. What was his name? Something I associate with pharmaceuticals for some reason, can't recall just now. But anyway, yes, the link goes back to Aesop's time.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 02:11 AM

There were two situations recently which cast possibly different light on our view of dolphins. One on the Moray Firth in Scotland and the other on the US East Coast. In Scotland the bodies of Harbour Porpoises were being found dead (with seemingly no external injuries) and in the US, similar case but of small Bottlenose Dolphins.

All the bodies had massive internal injuries and lots of theories were looked at to account for this. Eventually the Scottish side started looking more closely at the (less number) of bodies, also wahed-up that did have enternal injuries and found that they also had the identical internal injuries, seen in the unmarked bodies.

When they matched up the scars with known predators - there was a surprising but unquestionble result. The damage was due to Bottlenose Dolphins! Who were responsible for these attacks, but not for food.

Then video evidence was seen from the Moray Firth showing these (smaller) Harbour Porpoises being chased and tossed out of the water by Bottlenose Dolphins. Sinilar footage was also more closely studied in the US and what was thought to be 'playful' behavour involving younger animals being tossed out of the water - was established to be adults attacking young of the same species.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: Billy the Bus
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 03:19 AM

G'day Amos,

Dolphins and humans have fraternised in NZ waters for yonks - there's even a few songs about 'em. Check the songs and stories about Pelorus Jack & Opo. Sadly we lost a few more pilot whales, atranded on a North Island beach yesterday.

Cheers - Sam


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: Partridge
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 04:25 AM

I'm involved with fundraising at the moment for a boy with epilepsy and cerebal palsy so that he can go swimming with dolphins. Apparently its very theraputic.

Pat


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 05:35 AM

The ones in the Moray Firth appear to have recently bitten human researchers.

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=609&id=1254152002


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: Amos
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 05:42 AM

Bundle of sunshine, arentcha, Roger!! LOL


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 09:39 AM

Just cos something looks to be smiling at you.............

There are at least indications that some of the Moray Firth behaviour is partly caused by human over-fishing.

I don't want to rain on any one's parade but it looks pretty obvious that animal behaviour is at least as complicated and mysterious as human behaviour is - if not even more so.

Captive dolphin displays are very popular in Japan. Some villages there still have drive hunts in which thousands of dolphins are drowned battered to death for food. Many Japanese people do no seem see any problem with both and delighting in watching them perform and eating them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 09:43 AM

More cheerful news on this link to the BBC, i'm afraid.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/this_world/3956355.stm

[Dolphin Hunters was broadcast on Tuesday, 9 November, 2004, in the UK on BBC Two at 1930 GMT.]


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: Cluin
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 09:49 AM

I saw film years ago of fishermen hauling nets aboard in which dolphins were fouled. The fishermen didn't waste time unfouling the mammals. They just hacked at them with machetes till they tore free.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 11:12 AM

If we are partners - it looks as if one side is not honouring the partnership very well.

On of the points about the hunt, made in the Dolphin Hunters programme but not covered on the site - was that (selected) dolphins were also captured alive at this bloody hunt, for training and use in shows.

That it looked as if it was in fact the high prices being paid for these individuals - compared to the low price for food - that was making the hunt so profitable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 11:16 AM

No it was on the site.

Dolphin meat is a common sight on menus in Taiji, but food is not the only reason for drive hunting.

In 2003, 78 of the dolphins trapped in the hunts were used for dolphinarium shows and swim-with-dolphin programmes.

There are substantial rewards for dolphins employed by the increasingly-popular entertainment business; not for the hunters themselves, but for the industry's intermediaries - the groups who make money by buying the dolphins from the fishermen and selling them to dolphinariums for training.

It is estimated that "dolphin dealers" can sell one animal for up to $30,000 (£16,000). Paul confronts the head of one such intermediary organisation and puts it to him that the dealing business is actually the driving force behind the industry.

It also becomes apparent that there are international dealers. Footage of the hunts taken by Ric O'Barry show Westerners trying to buy dolphins from the fishermen in Taiji.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 11:17 AM

I've heard the male dolphin can be pretty aggressive about fraternizing with human females. Partners.....?????

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: MMario
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 11:19 AM

male dolphin can be pretty aggressive about fraternizing with human females

actually - from what I've heard male dolphins have little to no dicrimination. if it holds still long enough....


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: Cluin
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 11:21 AM

Many examples of same-sex couples have been found in the dolphin community too. So much for the "It's not natural" argument.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: Peace
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 01:34 PM

Same with geese.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: Amos
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 06:15 PM

I know some women -- well, one woman -- who has actually been goosed by a dolphin.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 08:09 PM

There was a wild Bottlenose Dolphin that stayed around our beaches here for a few weeks who seemed to like following boats and to have folk swimimg with him. He did not really behave in an overtly sexual way however.

Mrs Shambles bravely went in the freezing sea on a cold April day to swim with him and for some unknown reason - he gave her a good whack on the head with his tail. This was not typical behaviour as he was generally very gentle. Mind you she seemed to love every bit of the experience - all recorded on video.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: darkriver
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 02:11 AM

For Amos & Peter T. and suchlike, I offer the following brief article that originally appeared in the Esperanto magazine VORTPUNOJ, Jurnalo de nenecessaj lingvoj, for Feb '92.

Many people wrote us to ask about the "Dolphin Poetry" mentioned by F. Foceno in the last issue of Vortpunoj. So we turned to Professor Mifaras Bontrompon of the Dolphin Linguistics Institute. He responded:

In recent email with the Editorial staff of Vortpunoj, I received the following message which is purported to be poetry written by a dolphin.
My assignment was to produce a translation of the meaning of the poem, with the understanding that the poetic nature of the original might be
lost.

This task was considerably more difficult than the usual run-of-the-mill assignment translating geckos or cockroaches. Although non-standard transliterations are quite common, in this case the choice of transliteration scheme nearly rendered the task impossible.

Representing dolphin speech entirely with the characters "E" and "e"
meant that much of the nuance of the individual words was lost.

However, I believe I have accomplished the task. Standard
representation of porpoise speech, which consists of a
pitch/volume/duration triplet for each squeak. Of course, the original is lacking in all three of those values. However, we made the simplifying assumption that the number of "e" characters correspond to a duration, we also assumed that the capital "E" characters indicated a higher volume than the "e" characters. We created for each squeak an estimated *range* of possible values, based on our simplifying assumptions. Then, we ran a computer matching program that generated every possible word that the might be indicated. In several cases there was only one possible word. Based on these we could eliminate some of the possibilities for other words, in some cases due to grammatical impossibility and in others on consistancy in meaning.

Here are the results of our efforts:

Glossary
--------

E               I-see-it [via echo-location]
                seaweed
                tentacle
Ee             good-luck!
EeEeEeEe       right [correct, exclamation of agreement]
Eee             thermocline
Eeee            behold or to-bite-the-flukes of
EeeeEeeeE       underneath-and-to-the-right
EeeeeEeeeeE    go-for-it [exhortation to strive, whatever the odds]
Eeeeeeee       so-near-and-yet-so-far [exclamation on the unatanable]
                you've-almost-got-it
                you're-almost-there
Eeeeee          look-out [exhortation to take care]

Translation
-----------

> Eeee! Eee! EeeeEeeeE?
  Behold! Look underneath that thermocline and to the right!

> EeEeEeEe.... E E E!
  Right.... I see it! There's [seaweed or tentacle] there!

> Eeeeeeee. Eeeeeeee.
  So near and yet so far!

> Eee! Eeee! EeEeEeEe! E!
 At the termocline! Look! You can get it! The [seaweed or tentacle]!

> EeeeeEeeeeE? Ee!
  Go for it! Good luck!

> Eeeeeee. Eeeeee. E! E!
  You're almost there! Look out! I see it! The [seaweed or tentacle]!

> E! E!
  I see it! The [seaweed or tentacle]!

> E E E!
  I see it! The [seaweed or tentacle]! I see it!


Hope you have enjoyed it.

doug


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 02:39 AM

E - what a load of old tentacles.

Are these Yorkshire dolphins?

Was it sent by E mail?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 02:41 AM

And I've been searching for the dolphins in the seeeeeeeaa.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: *Laura*
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 05:28 PM

Has anyone been to/live in Dingle on the West Coast of Ireland? They've got a residant dolphin called Fungie - he stays in the bay and he follows the boats and plays with them. And apparently they don't feed him, and if any other dolphins come in he'll play with them but he won't go back out with them.
He's very cute - but I never realised dolphins were so big!

Quote from 'Hitchhiker' about dolphins:

"Human beings assume they are the most intelligent creatures on the planet becasue of their success in inventing skyscrapers, the wheel, wars etc - wheras all the dolphins have ever done is muck about in the water having a good time.
Dolphins assume they are the most intelligent creatures on the planet for exactly the same reasons!" -
brilliant!

xLx


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 06:19 PM

Yes last summer we visited Fungie and Mrs Shambles managed to resist jumping off the boat to swim with him too.

It seems that many people in Dingle have made a good living (directly or indirectly) from Fungie's stay for a number of years. Not too sure what Fungie gets out of it all but everyone seems to be happy. Especially the many visitors.

Having experienced two different wild dolphins who seem to choose human company - it is still a puzzle to me why they would want this. However, it is a thrill to have the opportunity be able to get so close to these wonderful wild creatures.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: Amos
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 07:13 PM

Perhaps they feel a rush of adrenalin at getting cloe to these bizarre wild bipeds, and they do it on a dare from their peers. Eee! E!! EE!


Love that guide to their vocab, Doug!!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: *Laura*
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 07:15 PM

Maybe Fungie charges other dolphins to come and watch him and they all stay right down on the sea floor and watch as he makes the boats go round in circles and make waves and they all go 'ooh' and 'ahh' just like we did when Fungie jumped up!
And they're all really impressed becasue when they go above the waves there is jst normal sea-sound but when Fungie goes above the waves there's all this chattering and laughing and 'oooh-ing'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 02:58 AM

*Smiles*

No, my experience leads me to think that these fine and mysterious animals - [who are true masters of their environment and unlike us, have no need to alter it to attain this mastery] - should not be seen as having any thought processes that are in any way similar to ours.

If only we had the ability to bring the same simple delights and peace to their kind as they do to us............


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: *Laura*
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 01:20 PM

Yes, much better,
That's why I like the Hitch-hiker quote so much.

xLx


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 12:27 PM

Poachers blamed as 'recue' dolphins killed.

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=226&id=1359902004


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 12:30 PM

POACHERS in New Zealand may have killed two members of a pod of dolphins that recently saved the lives of swimmers from a great white shark attack, lifeguards said yesterday.

The mutilated carcasses of the two bottlenose dolphins were found on Wednesday in the Awaroa River, which branches off the upper reaches of Whangarei Harbour on North Island's east coast.

Staff from New Zealand's Department of Conservation (DOC) believe the dolphins died about two weeks ago after drowning in fishing nets set out by criminals poaching fish. DOC officer Richard Parrish said their tails had been hacked off, probably to free them from the net.

Three weeks ago, seven dolphins protected Ocean Beach lifeguard Rob Howes, 45, his 15-year-old daughter Nicky, 16-year-old lifeguard trainee Helen Slade, and Karina Cooper, 15, from the jaws of a great white shark at Ocean Beach, Whangarei Heads.

The protective dolphins have been hailed as the humans' saviours after the incident was reported this week.

Mr Howes was on a training swim with the teenagers to mark Helen's first day as a lifeguard.

The group was 100 metres from the beach when around seven agitated dolphins appeared. The pod formed a protective shield around the swimmers and even herded Mr Howes back when he tried to swim away.

The girls thought the dolphins were playing as they swam round them in tight circles, thrashing their tails, but Mr Howes finally spotted the outline of a 10ft great white. The dolphins warded off the shark for 45 minutes and only when it moved off did they allow the swimmers to head for the shore.

The discovery of the dead dolphins has outraged the local community and shocked Mr Howes and Miss Slade, who feared the two mammals may have been a part of the pod that saved them.

An angry Mr Howes said whoever mutilated the dolphins should be castrated.

"In light of what has happened at Ocean Beach I would give them a taste of their own medicine," he said. "This is how we repay them for their help?"

He said setting illegal nets where dolphins could get tangled up in them amounted to "indiscriminate murder," and added that the discovery would put a lot of fishermen under pressure.

"There will be a public outcry against the use of nets," he said.

Miss Slade said she was disgusted to hear what had happened to the dolphins.

"Why would they do such a thing?" she asked.

Fishing with illegal nets, failing to report finding a dolphin in a net, and mutilating a marine mammal are all offences carrying a maximum 10,000 New Zealand dollars fine.

Bay Of Islands SPCA inspector Jim Boyd said fishermen needed to change their habits and not set nets where dolphins could be caught.

"(Dolphins) drown in the nets because they cannot get to the surface for air," he said.

Mr Boyd called on the Government to impose legislation to protect the dolphins.

"If (illegal netting) doesn't stop then dolphins will become extinct," he said.

"That would be a sad indictment on society that we cannot look after a creature as special as this."


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 07:40 AM

I think it was a Dr Liddy (?) in 1967 who did great research into their ultrasonic communication. (Brucie)
What was his name? Something I associate with pharmaceuticals for some reason (Amos)

John C. Lilly

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: Amos
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 08:36 PM

Many thanks, Wolfgang!! Strange lifetime that man has had!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 08:54 AM

Help - the Little Green Men have arrived!


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 10:23 AM

So long, & thanks for all the fish


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Subject: RE: BS: Dolphins and Humans: Partners
From: Barry Finn
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 04:39 PM

From above
"It has been so prevalent that in some circles it is believed that where there are dolphins there is no danger of shark attack. Unfortunately this is not true. While dolphins are able and sometimes willing to protect humans from sharks, they may not."

While living aboard a boat in the Lahina Roadstead, Maui the was many nights that I ended up swimming home, btween 1/3 to 1/2 mile at night. There were 3 of us & only 2 dingys. When dolphins were known to be in & around the roadstead or harbor it was common for many of us to swim back & forth to shore. It was not near as common when dolphins hadn't been seen or reported to be swimming about. A lot of time the dolphins would wake me up by there sounds coming through the hull & when going topsides they'd be doing there tricks so close to the boat you could reach out & touch them. What a way to wake up in the morning.

Barry


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