Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Nick
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 06:50 PM

Scroll up the thread and work out how seriously he should take us?

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Nick
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 06:47 PM

Barbara

You're either a big fish or a small fish.

I'm a small fish. Mr Smith is a big one.

I have no idea how Mr Smith runs his businesses but he is not an idiot.

I have an enormously short sighted view of the world.

I want Sam Smiths to re-welcome music to their pubs.

And there has to be a way to do that that suits everyone.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: BB
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 04:12 PM

In a way, it's a good job that this whole thing with Sam Smith's happened now, rather than after the new Licensing Act comes into operation. I don't know how many people realise it, but when the entertainment part of the licence is applied for, it has to be stated what entertainment and when it's going to take place - that means if it's not already in a schedule, it will cost to get that schedule changed. What happens when a club or session gets summarily dismissed from a regular venue? Where are they going to find another one - at short or even long notice?

Also, as regards Sam Smiths, according to a 'Restoration' programme on BBC4 the other night, they own a very old building in Bath, and another in Bristol which they have just let run to rack and ruin. Since they bought them, they have done nothing to them. I think the local government in Bristol has brought in a Compulsory Purchase Order on that one, rather than let it deteriorate further, especially in an area that they're trying to improve.

I thought this guy was supposed to be running a business. He seems to have a very short-sighted way of doing it!

Barbara

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 09:08 AM

10 x 8 ! Luxury ........... mine's smaller than a dog kennel, and when I say dog kennel, it was only a little dog

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 08:39 AM

Andy,
    It's all right for you, you've got three bloody great sheds kitted out with beer pumps, heating and even fridges! Raggy actually lives in a B & Q 10'x8' deluxe shiplap "Monarch" shed. He likes to go to pubs to stretch his legs.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: El Dano
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 07:59 AM

Raggytash
I think that you are too dismissive of village halls, lets be honest just how good are pubs these days. Theres certainly a few gems and they are worth having
( Up to a month ago both White Horse Hengate and the Blacksmiths in Farlington would have been on my "gem" list)

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Nick
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 07:52 AM

Happy New Year Carol hope you had a good break. STILL haven't sent you your tape back as I have now mislaid your address - perhaps you could PM it to me.

We have moved to the Highwayman at Sheriff Hutton (about 30 yards from where I live!) and meet there at 8.15+ every Wednesday. So far so good.

Starting to think about organising something for when the weather gets better for another weekend either there or another pub close to here. More of that anon

Hope your other half is keeping well

Regards

Nick

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Carol
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 04:57 AM

Hi
I've written to Mr Humphrey but no reply so far and my reaction at present is that I won't go into a Sam smith's pub until they change their policy. This will probably mean that Idon't go into a Sam Smith's pub again - have you found an alternative venue to the Blacksmith's yet Nick? Happy New Year by the way.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 04:07 AM

Leeneia

As Hilaire Belloc, a French 19th Century writer (educated in Birmingham and Oxfor, the original one's in England) said about English hostelries "when you have lost your pubs, you may drown your empty selves, for you will have lost the heart of England"
The few American's I know who have spent time over here truly love the English pub, come over and see for yourself, if you already haven't, a village hall is not an alternative

Cheers

Raggy

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 09:29 PM

Can you just buy some six packs and meet in the hall of your local Catholic church? That's what we Americans would do.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Nick
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 07:32 PM

Linda -

The fact that the policy has changed means it can change again.

You're right that people should keep the pressure up- but for the reason that this change has not happened in a second and it won't get change in a second.

The question is always whether it's worth fighting for.

If it's REALLY worth fighting for then time isn't an issue.

If the beer had been £1.85-£2.00 would it be an issue?

I can only speak from my end of things. If the Blacksmiths Arms + Ben & Sharon + all the fun we had was still there then it would have been regardless of prices and everything and I'd be battling harder than I am at the moment.

Empty pubs mighty quickly lose their interest and become buildings without people however lovely they are. Usually get sold, flattened and developed.

Who cares?

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 05:31 PM

Well since nothing hangs in the balance and nothing we can do will change his mind-we really must keep up the pressure jut for the sheer hell of it!!!!! I did write on the message board at the tadcaster site but mysteriously it has disappeared!

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:58 PM

'God' has spoken!

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Nick
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:22 PM

I rang Mr Smith at home last night (well it seemed like a sensible thing with press, radio etc phoning me) and spoke to his wife and he rang me back this morning about 7.40am

We had a brief conversation that went pretty much like this -

"Mr B?"
"Yes"
"It's Humphrey Smith. We really must stop discussing
this music thing. There is nothing more to be said,
the decision has been made. People will just need to
live with it"

And that was it.

Article in the York Evening Press coming soon.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: El Dano
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 05:21 PM

According to the Beverley Guardian theres a comedy turn on at Nellies this week Is this happening elsewhere on planet Humphrey

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 06:33 AM

Sorry folks, thread drift ...... what date Michael

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 06:09 AM

Who let Ian Hislop in? Allegedly.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: ossonflags
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 05:56 AM

Hello, Raggy,,will you be at our gig at the Whitters?

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 05:18 AM

I think a private fiefdom, apparently he also owns most of Tadcaster and has some unusual views of who can rent his property (alledgely)

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: ET
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 04:56 AM

I wrote some time ago to Humphrey - reply - a deafening silence - rather like his pubs. I wonder what will happen when profits sink to the floor? Is this a brewery with shareholders or a private fiefdom?

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: ossonflags
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 03:54 AM

Well judging from my experiance at one of the oldest of smiths outlets on saturday night, I think the chances of playing music in ANY of his pubs are pretty remote.

It would be in no ones intrest to enter into slanging matches with individuals,so I will tell you the unembellished story;

Our band "Punch the Horse" were due to play "Nellies" in Beverley that night.This was a long standing private booking in the upstairs room.The people who booked us were given no indication that the gig would be cancelled as they were of the understanding - as we all were - that smiths would honour all private functions up to the 31st of January.

On arrival at the pub I tackled the relief manager about the problem and after a heated debate I was informed by him ;"I am only acting on instructions from the top, I do not work for smiths it is more than my job is worth to let you play, I am very sorry,,but no comment" he then went on to say that if he allowed us to play it would upset the Folk Club and the Jazz club.I do find this very strange as both organisations had been given ther marching orders a few days before !

What happened next? well dear friends the show must go on.We left in a marked manner taking with us fifty,yes fifty, other people and found some one who welcomed us with open arms, so us and the fifty other people had a splendid night playing music and drinking vast amounts of bear.

Will smiths ever allow music to be played in any of his pubs? I leave you to draw your own conclusions.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Nick
Date: 31 Jan 05 - 06:45 PM

Has anyone actually spoken to anyone from Sams on this or had feedback from them or tried to move the thing onwards?

PM me if you have anything other than hearsay as it would be good to move things on.

I have a really simple view on this that I would like THE POSSIBILITY OF ONE DAY PLAYING MUSIC IN A SAM SMITHS PUB WITH EVERYONE BEING HAPPY with it

ie Sam Smiths/PRS/local council/local landlord-manager/ THE CUSTOMERS (lest we forget...)


Whoops forgot us - the players! We'll always survive. It would be a nice option of doing it in a Sams pub

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 31 Jan 05 - 04:04 PM

Oliver Cromwell would be pleased to know that he finally won.

Or is our Humphreythe reincarnation of Ollie?

SCARY!!!

Don T.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 05 - 09:45 AM

We've lost our jukebox too, and we're gutted. It's an estate pub in Sheffield and the music wasn't so loud you couldn't have a chat, it just added to the atmosphere. It's a bit wierd without it. I'm from Beverley originally and can't imagine Nellies without the live music either.

For anyone who wants to write to the brewery to make their feelings known, the address seems to be:

Humphrey Smith
Sam Smiths Brewery
Tadcaster
North Yorks
LS24 9SB

I realise they've made this policy on economic grounds, and fair enough. However, if enough people choose to go elsewhere as a result, it won't work - so it might be worth pointing that out.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 08:43 AM

How does it effect a musical ring-tone should a mobile phone go off in a Sam Smith's pub? And, if you go outside to take the call does the ban extend to the beer garden. I know people hate mobile phones in public but they are now a fact of life. Are wind-up musical toys for muppets also banned in beer gardens if that is the case or would people prefer screaming kids spoiling their Sunday afternoons out in summer because they can't be soothed by their favourite toy? Pity the poor landlord trying to enforce the rule by wresling a young mother to the ground to confiscate the toy. The poor woman embarrassed by showing her draws in public. That chairman's got a lot to answer for!

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Pistachio
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 06:18 AM

What indeed!



'Silence'



?

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: GUEST,Rawmarsh Progressive (Titanic)
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 04:08 AM

Ballroom,sequence,linedancing nights have all been cancelled & moved to other venues ( not Sam smiths)Weekly live artistes will no longer find work here. The bookings for all weddings,dico`s private parties have been cancelled. Suicide or what!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: GUEST,bill.b
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 03:26 PM

PRS/PPL want their cut Ok .But why take all tv's (normal tv's )not sky out.this licence has already been paid for or by the tenant/manager and will cost no extra.Or is this just another cost cutting exercise.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 03:48 AM

Another bit of thread creep. A local pub (Bracknell) has been told it can have it's juke box but if people dance to it they'll need an extra licence! (This is according to the Ascot News which isn't always accurate!)
A review of London music pub the Troubadour in paper over Xmas described the regular audience as "musos". I suppose I qualify as they are defined as grey-haired,overweight, middleaged men in faded T-shirts!

RtS

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: MuddleC
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:59 PM

PLEASE BE AWARE THAT ALL MUSIC AND DANCING THIS NEW YEAR'S EVE IS BANNED.

THIS IS TO ENSURE PUBLIC SAFETY, TO SAVE THE RED SQUIRREL, COMBAT WORLD TERRORISM, CURE WARTS, COMBAT PLAGUES OF LOCUSTS, ENSURE THE JOBS OF SMALL FURRY PUBLIC SERVANTS CALLED HUMPHREY AND TO GENERALLY PISS PEOPLE OFF..

GOVT OF THE PEOPLE, NOT BY THE PEOPLE

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 11:24 AM

Don't give the buggers any idea's !!!!

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 11:23 AM

Why didn't they just tax it like they do everything else?

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 05:38 AM

Nick

I am sorry to hear this. However, it was not unexpected and it it is vital that the exact reasons and extent of this are recorded. It is still unclear what the reasons are and what the chain's approach to the new Licensing Act is going to be.

As this legislation is being sold to us on the basic that it will encourage live music (in small premises) and folk session will not have to keep moving venues - it does not appear to be working.................

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 02:34 AM

Well I for one would welcome the removal of televisions from pubs... the whole point of going to the pub for me, is to talk to my friends, not shout at them over the noise of whatever sporting event is happening on the big screen TV placed where the stage used to be.

And I welcome the 100th post!

I've worked in several pubs over the years, the most relaxing ones were those that had no juke box (or at least, no disco/heavy metal/rap or funk on it), no piped music other than 'classical ' (although there is now a 'Classical' Bar in London, which has a DJ, who plays 'classical hits' all evening -it's pretty good actually!), and those which had no TV in the main bar. As posted somewhere above, if I want to watch a TV, I'll do it at home.

LTS

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Wotcha
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 01:54 AM

My God ... it looks like the UK is turning into Henrietta, Oklahoma.   Welcome to the Bible Belt, ya'll ...

Cheers,

Brian

Happy to FROM Oklahoma

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Nick
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 08:49 PM

Nice Christmas present this...

Area manager came into Blacksmiths Arms, Farlington on Thursday and informed the manager that folk music was no longer allowed. I believe his reaction was "well you can tell them yourself because I'm not going to". So this wednesday looks like our last meeting there.

The word "fuck" comes to mind.

Still, on the plus side there are two other local pubs who are happy to have us. Being prepared is a good place to be.

Hopefully it is only our pub that is affected and others are not.

Seems weird business to me. They will lose £000's on this as not only will they lose their solid weekly wednesday trade but I dare say most of the regular business from those of us who used it as their main pub.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: MuddleC
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 08:34 PM

yes, the friendly Bobbie's truncheon has being replaced twice now, first with the P24 side-handled baton, and because it didn't seem offensive enough when drawing it, the spring loaded telescopic ASP is now used .. coming soon, Tasers and Glock 9mm.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 11:59 AM

You've led a sheltered life Ted.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 03:10 AM

"night stick" I've never heard it called THAT before!

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 11:02 PM

Here now, take this nice blue pill and bend down so I can hit you over the head with my night stick..

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: MuddleC
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 09:49 PM

-sorry, she can't even shake her marraccas', with or without music, its rhythmic moving...aaaiiieee -dancing! call the PEL Police

-stop that sinful dancing min

- I can't Henry, it's those Morris Dancers, their bells are driving me to distraction........ ohhhh those mighty sticks.....

-Min , Min stop it Min -eeuooooghhhhhh!

(enter Bluebottle, Captain of the East Finchley Morris) wh)

-Dance you devils, dance till your jingles fall off...

(enter PC Bloodnok)
-Hello, hello ,hello...... hello Bottle, you can't do this sort of thing you know , your men haven't got the right number of bells on their legs and they're not in the key of A, , now all of you show me your ID cards.............

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: ThreeSheds
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 12:29 PM

Which pubs that then?

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 11:57 AM

Would you object to piped Flamenco music Ted? The barmaid shaking her marracas.......................

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 09:54 AM

Totally agreed oh hairy one! Who decided on my behalf that I really can't live without piped pop shite blaring at me wherever I go.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 09:47 AM

Baz, hope this doesn't sound condescending but if there is no music you will soon learn what pubs used to be about, a few pints and conversation, I learnt tremendous amounts in pubs when I could hear others speak and some of the conversation/debates/arguments and out and out slanging matches I wouldn't have missed for the world. Sadly the introduction of piped music/juke boxes/TV/satellite/big screens has seen an end to this for the most parts. We would argue or discuss anything and everything e.g who is more important a Doctor or a Dustbinman ........... a doctor who cures you of disease or the dustbinman who take away your rubbish and prevents you getting one in the first place. I remember a furious debate about this in my local when I was about 19 and have never forgotton it.

Try it, it can be great fun

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 09:12 AM

I looked at a forum for pub landlords/licensees recently [sorry i don't know waht its called, and i forgot to save it], and it mentioned on there that pubs pay £400 per month for Sky Sports TV, so the £20 a week music fee thing does not seem much compared to that.

I might have got the £400 a bit wrong, they might be proposing to increase it to £400, I'll try to find out.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: GUEST,Baz
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 09:06 AM

As a regular at the Blacksmiths Arms pub at Spring Gardens near West Auckland (County Durham), I was amazed when, a couple of weeks ago, the TV and the sound system suddenly vanished. To be perfectly honest, the lack of TV doesn't bother me, I can watch that at home, but no music at all in the pub is a bit much, especially with Christmas and the New Year celebrations just around the corner. I fully agree with the comment that it's about time Samual Smiths pubs were dragged, albeit kicking and screaming, into the 21st century. Taking a stand against what the management considers to be an excessive increase in music licence fees is one thing, but surely the loyal customers without whom there would be no pub at all count for something. All they seem to be achieving is making the customer suffer. I also agree that even with a fee of £1000 per year, it is still pretty cheap at the price, little more than £20 a week. And incidentally, the comfort, cleanliness and general decor leave much to be desired too. I am very disillusioned with what is taking place at the moment, and will certainly be taking my custom elsewhere until the management come to their senses.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 17 Dec 04 - 07:20 AM

The Bulls Head in Barnes is also slap bang next to a railway bridge!

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 09:03 AM

This has now been finalised by the appeal court in a case Toye-v-London Borough of Southwark after a failed request by the appellant for the matter to go before the House of Lords.

A precedent has now been set.The consequences of this precedent are:1)
The Kwizoke plus machine does provide pre-recorded sound. Therefore premises granted a Justices' On Licence cannot lawfully permit a person to sing songs or otherwise perform whilst accompanied by the Kwizoke plus machine (e.g. Karaoke sessions or live artist)2)

"Two live performers" - The exemption regarding the two live performers means that there must not be more than two live performers throughout the whole of the entertainment period and not as suggested by the appellant, "no more than two at any one time" HenceIf throughout the course of entertainment, three different soloists perform music, or a duo perform followed by a soloist, this will be classed as three live entertainers therefore a Public Entertainments Licence is required.

Subject: RE: Have Sam Smiths pubs banned ALL music?
From: pavane
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 08:19 AM

Shambles

I understand how MIDI FILES could be regarded as recorded music, even though they are more related technically to programs - they are lists of instructions to a sound module. I don't suppose the lawyers are competent to understand such things.

But did the case also cover MIDI Instruments? I fail to understand how a MIDI keyboard would produce recorded music whereas an identical instrument WITHOUT the MIDI OUT facility would not?