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Origins: 10,000 Miles + Red Red Rose

DigiTrad:
HE'S GONE AWAY
MY LOVE IS LIKE A RED, RED ROSE
RED ROSY BUSH
TEN THOUSAND MILES
THE STORMS ARE ON THE OCEAN
THOUSAND MILE BLUES
TURTLE DOVE
TURTLE DOVE (2)


Related threads:
Lyr/Tune Req: 10,000 Miles (Mary Chapin Carpenter) (31)
(origins) Origins: 10,000 Miles (28)
Lyr Add: He's Gone Away (Slightly Different Words) (3)


RobbieWilson 01 Dec 04 - 08:50 AM
GUEST,Henryp 01 Dec 04 - 09:07 AM
masato sakurai 01 Dec 04 - 09:48 AM
Nerd 02 Dec 04 - 03:04 AM
RobbieWilson 02 Dec 04 - 04:54 AM
Malcolm Douglas 02 Dec 04 - 06:32 AM
GUEST,katie 05 Jun 09 - 11:17 AM
Amos 05 Jun 09 - 01:21 PM
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Subject: 10,000 miles and red red rose
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 08:50 AM

These two songs have much in common. Did Burns write my love is like a red red rose, did he collect it or did he include verses of older song(s) or just the ideas( rocks may melt, seas run dry ?. I have a vague recollection of reading somewhere that 10,000 miles is actually the older song but I can't remember where.


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Subject: RE: 10,000 miles and red red rose
From: GUEST,Henryp
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 09:07 AM

They seem to have a common origin.

John Clare also published a version.


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Subject: RE: 10,000 miles and red red rose
From: masato sakurai
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 09:48 AM

See this thread (10,000 miles song from Fly Away Home).


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Subject: RE: 10,000 miles and red red rose
From: Nerd
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 03:04 AM

It's not just these two songs. Like many lyric songs, these two share verses with many others, including "My Dearest Dear," "The Blackest Crow," "A Rovin on a Winter's night," etc. I think it's safe to say that Burns took some of the imagery at least from tradition.


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Subject: RE: 10,000 miles and red red rose
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 04:54 AM

From the Burns on line encyclopedia
http://www.robertburns.org/encyclopedia/UrbaniPietro17491511816.871.shtml


I got this:The song first appeared in Urbani's Scots Songs, 1794, to an original tune. In his publication, Urbani explained that: '... the words of the RED, RED ROSE were obligingly given to him by a celebrated Scots Poet, who was so struck with them when sung by a country girl that he wrote them down, and, not being pleased with the air, begged the Author to set them to Music in the style of a Scots Tune, which he has done accordingly.'

The first three stanzas of the song appeared in the Museum, 1797, to the Gow tune 'Major Graham', the tune Burns himself specified. It also appeared in Thomson's Original Scottish Airs, 1799, 'improved' by the insensitive editor to fit Marshall's 'Wishaw's Favourite', a tune of double measure (i.e. 'And fair thee weel awhile' became 'And fair thee weel a little while'!)

The 'Red, Red Rose', however, only achieved popularity when matched to 'Low down in the Broom', and air which first appeared in the Caledonian Pocket Companion. Burns's words and the air 'Low down in the Broom' were first brought together by the Paisley composer and editor, Robert Archibald Smith, in his Scottish Minstrel, published in 1821.

Does anyone know of a version from before 1790 or have any suggestions about where I might look?
Robbie


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Subject: RE: 10,000 miles and red red rose
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 06:32 AM

The poet Allan Cunningham, in his Works of Robert Burns (1834) made a connection between this song and I will put my Ship in Order (Drowsy Sleeper) which he said was current in Nithsdale at the time. He quoted part of a text which he said (bear in mind that he was not always altogether truthful) was from oral tradition. I quoted such of his comments as were reproduced in the Journal of the Folk Song Society (1904) in the thread Help: Age of 'East Virginia'?. You may find some of that discussion useful.

Note that Smith named his book The Scotish Minstrel (one "t"). It's easy inadvertently to "correct" it (I've done that myself) but many references use Smith's actual choice of title, so it's useful to know.


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Subject: RE: 10,000 miles and red red rose
From: GUEST,katie
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 11:17 AM

in the song 10,000 miles by mary chapin she said "The rocks may melt and the seas may burn." Does she permission to use those lyrics considering Robert burns wrote them in the poem A red red rose?


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Subject: RE: 10,000 miles and red red rose
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jun 09 - 01:21 PM

I doubt any need for such permission existed, Katie. For one things, Burns' work was well outside copyright time. For another, even by Burns' time, the phrasing may have been well-established in the oral tradition. Mary Chapin's song was itself a free borrowing from other sources in the best freeboot Folk tradition.



A


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