Track editing problem - Help please!

Subject: Track editing problem - Help please!
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 08:55 AM

I'd appreciate some advice on editing of a recording session done on a Roland VS840 recently. I recorded a quartet playing old standards, using only 2 tracks and 2 microphones – a condenser for the group, and a dynamic mic for the vocalist. On some tracks the percussion is obtrusive, and I'd like to reduce its effect if possible. I know I should have taken care of this at the recording stage (eg taken the sticks off the drummer and thrown them out of the window; put a cushion over the skin of the vocalist's bongos etc), but I don't have much recording experience yet, and I'm probably too polite to be honest with my charges.

I have Sound Forge v4.5 which has some editing facilities – though I don't know how it may help with this problem. I assume it's not possible to isolate the percussion, but if there's some magic that can be worked on the track I'd love to know what it is.

Any help please?

Subject: RE: Track editing problem - Help please!
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 09:15 AM

Haven't used Sound Forge, but have used CoolEdit a lot. CoolEdit's filters will allow you to boost or reduce all sounds in a defined range of frequencies. I've used it to reduce boominess on tracks or boost the bass on thin tracks or remove hiss, etc. This is, of course, 16 bit editing done to an already mixed, mastered and produced track that's been compressed down to 16 bit for audio CD. I've also used CoolEdit to record and process tracks transferred from old cassette tapes to, to great effect.

So I'd recommend finding out if your version of Sound Forge has similar filters and try playing with them to get the desired effect. Or else, find an old demo of CoolEdit (recommend CoolEdit 96, it doesn't expire in 30 days) on the web and download and install it for use. The program is defunct now, being bought out by Adobe and changed and marketed as Audition. I'll keep my old demo, thanks.

Subject: RE: Track editing problem - Help please!
From: treewind
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 09:32 AM

If the percussion is short sharp peaks (i.e. drums) well above the level of everything else you migh be able to cut it back with a limiter or a compressor with fast attack and release times. It won't know the difference between drums and anything else, but it will cut down the level of whatever's above its threshold. Obviously you'll have to experiment with the threshold and compression ratio to get the best compromise between reducing the drums and squashing the whole mix to hell and back.

Just EQ (frequency sensitive filtering) won't help much, unless there's excessive noise in a particular frequency range - bass drum, or cymbal/tambourine sizzle, on maybe a very resonant peak in the mid range that you can tune out with a notch filter.

Multiband compression as used by mastering processors might help...
It's really an impossible question to answer without hearing the problem track!

Anahata

Subject: RE: Track editing problem - Help please!
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 09:42 AM

Over-hitting with wire brushes on a snare is the main problem, and hand-thumps on bongos (Oh why didn't I just sit him in the next room)

Subject: RE: Track editing problem - Help please!
From: Bernard
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 09:44 AM

To be perfectly honest, I don't think you have much chance of anything but a marginal improvement - and it's more likely that you'll end up 'colouring' the sound by removing stuff that really needs to be there...

Parametric EQ may help, as will compression and normalising - all of which SoundForge (my all time favourite programme) has.

4.5 was good, and I've forgotten which bits were missing as I'm on 6 these days... I think it was noise reduction and MP3... nope, can't remember!!

Most important of all, remember to keep the original safe and work ONLY ON A COPY!!

Subject: RE: Track editing problem - Help please!
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 09:49 AM

Do I need to work on the offending blips one by one, or can I apply some editing across the whole track?

Subject: RE: Track editing problem - Help please!
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 09:56 AM

If you apply filtering, compression, limiting etc across the whole track, it will colour the whole track, as said above. If it is just some peaks, you might be better advised to highlight just the offending bits and work on those alone. It will be several hours of nitpicky work but probably produce the best result. Sorry.

As suggested above, back-up the original before you do anything.

Subject: RE: Track editing problem - Help please!
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 09:59 AM

Thanks Cluin (and to you Bernard and Treewind) - the original is still with Roland safe & sound.

Subject: RE: Track editing problem - Help please!
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 01:34 PM

I use Sound Forge. For the occasional bit that is significantly lounder than the surrounding music, I have softened the spike by selecting it and using graphic fade.

Subject: RE: Track editing problem - Help please!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 07:05 PM

"hand-thumps on bongos (Oh why didn't I just sit him in the next room)"

Ha! ha! ha! now you just must try and get to listen to Stan Freeburg's version of 'Banana Boat Song'........ :-)

Subject: RE: Track editing problem - Help please!
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 07:27 PM

you could at least have a last resort available of re-recording the session..

saddest thing is that MR FOX 1st LP from the early 70's
was also recorded direct to 2 track stereo
and is still one of the cruelest examples of great music
marred and rendered virtually unlistenable
by an overenthusiastly obtrusive shite drummer..

very sad because no possibility ever of a remix
to delete the offending drum torture..

and so far music 'noise' reduction technology has not yet advanced
sufficiently to filter it out
and leave the sound quality of the remaining beautiful instruments and vocals unaffected..


good luck mate..

Subject: RE: Track editing problem - Help please!
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:48 AM

you just must try and get to listen to Stan Freeburg's version of 'Banana Boat Song'........ :-)

Thanks for that - I might fail in my bid to mend the track, but at least I got a chuckle from that post


Too loud man.........

Subject: RE: Track editing problem - Help please!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:50 PM

I come fru da window!