Dylan on 60 Minutes

Subject: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: michaelr
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 02:46 PM

Tomorrow on CBS! Check your local listings.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: mike_in_st_c
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 04:45 PM

Yes indeed. I plan to set up the vcr and tape it while I'm at work.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 04:49 PM

Yes, I can't wait to see the Bobster on TV!

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: michaelr
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 07:44 PM

Tonight!
The teaser showed BD saying "...people thought I was drunk or a weirdo or something..." so presumably he'll refute those notions?

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 07:53 PM

I must be getting old. He sounds like a horse's ass who has learned nothing in 40+ years. Except for his very last statement made with some humor.
SINS in body armor.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 08:17 PM

One of the most boring interviews I have heard. Self serving and boring---oh, he wrote the songs in a trance and now disowns them. Sure. The fellow who said he was Woody's disciple when it suited him. The fellow who changed his name for artistic reasons and now says he was just born into the wrong family with the wrong name.

The piece about the Western Wall was almost creating a vomit moment.

What he left out was that press agentry helped him a lot after it was seen that his music and his persona had "legs".

That said, I think his music is great. His persona--the opposite.

Hopefully, we will remember a peer of his. Phil Ochs. Would he have gone down this route? We will never know. Did he write material he stood behind? You bet.   Was he a better disciple of Woody G.---melodically NO--substance--a resounding YES.

Could Phil write ballads in addition to the topical---surely. Dylan's comments about him not withstanding.


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 08:21 PM

Hmmm. Gee. Well, I didn't see it. I forgot. Anyway, I basically don't watch TV.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST,Dave Ruch
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 08:35 PM

As a big fan, I was disappointed in the interview, and surprised by how disconnected & lifeless Dylan came off. Does this guy enjoy ANYTHING, or have any sense of humor? I felt that too many of the questions were ones for which I already knew what his answer would be. I would have loved to hear him talk about the here and now - what does he enjoy doing when not on the road? What does he listen to?

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 09:21 PM

Another one weighing in with a big yawn. But I am amused at the irony of his intense desire to leave Hibbing behind, yet still sounding the Minnesota Ranger, despite all the miles and years between him & his hometown.

The Bob is A Bore.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 09:22 PM

You know?

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: number 6
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 09:26 PM

It was Bob. What did we expect.

'Something's happening here, and ya don't know what it is. Do you Mr. Jones'.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 10:13 PM

Well, I'm sure the Dylan cult was hoping for A Sign.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: Francy
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 11:48 PM

In all the years and all the songs and all the words and all the people listening to Dylan, and all the people that went before him and had an influence on his musical life....I don't see a speck of "humility" in Bob.......And to me that's what sets him behind people like Pete Seeger and Malvina Reynolds and Huddie Leadbetter and Woody.........As you may surmise i don't have a lot of praise for Bob Dylan....................Frank of Toledo

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 11:50 PM

People are disappointed 'cause they were "looking for clues". He's just a musician like you or me...

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 12:02 AM

Love much of the man's music. It's his creation and I guess he's "paid his dues". But he lost me completely when he licensed "The Times They Are A-Changing" for a frikken Bank of Montreal commercial.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 12:06 AM

Well, people do silly things, but it IS his song...

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST,Cluin
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 12:15 AM

Jeremiah, were you on the CanFolk e-mail listserve when the members collaborated on a spoof of "Times" in reaction to the commercials a few years ago? I used to have a copy of it around here somewhere, probably on my old computer or a floppy. I'll try and hunt it up.

Another commercial use of a song that leaves me scratching my head these days is the use of "I Believed in Father Christmas" by Bell Canada to sell cellphone service, etc. Didn't any of those boardroom dorks listen to the whole lyric to that song before they okayed it?

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: Snagger
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 12:20 AM

I thought the interview was interesting in that he was far more direct in answering the questions than I thought he would be. He responded like someone who feels like worn leather. He`s been handled, branded and worn. Sometimes, when the guard comes down whats left from the scars of life disappoints.
George

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST,awayfromthecookiejarDrWord
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 01:40 AM

Michael ~ Thanks for the thread. Would otherwise have missed the broadcast.



twelve out of 500 is roughly two and a half percent

For the author/composer, the "pat on the back" is regarded as, more or less, precisely that.

like lh, I don't watch the tube, but I did tune in.
Seems pretty comfy in his skin, which he didn't the one time I heard/saw him live in Winnipeg.
cheers
dennis

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 01:52 AM

I think Bob respects Ed Bradley and his background in music and as a lover of jazz who had his own jazz program on public radio even while he did 60 Minutes every week. It's nice to know that the one asking the questions knows what he's talking about---has heard your music over the years and has done his homework.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:34 AM

Ed Bradley does have a good background in music and in interviewing musicians. But I can't say I was impressed by the questions. It looked like he might have surfed the web looking for clues. I mean, how tired and ridiculous is the question "How do you feel about being called the voice of your generation"?

The Bob played cultivated the icon and image building game back in the day--built that "mystique" thing that surrounds him, yet now claims he didn't have anything to do with it, it was all media fabrication and overhype.

I'd have to agree with the overhype thing.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:09 AM

Well, I guess I'm in the minority (with George for company); I thought Dylan was honest, direct, and as interesting as ever. Bradley could have come up with some more interesting questions, but I guess we have to reconize that the show was aimed at a broad 60 Minutes audience, so the tired stuff about Dylan being the "Voice of a Generation" kind of had to be in there.

I thought Dylan's comments about no longer being able to write songs like the early ones (It's Alright Ma, Hard Rain, etc.) were fascinating, and completely honest. He could have made all sorts of claims about his new songs being the same, or just as significant, or whatever, like you might expect a guy in his position to do. Instead, he was honest and said he can't write songs like that any more, and that he's somewhat mystified by how those songs came to be. As another long-time songwriter (not claiming to be in the same league as Dylan) who has gone through writing cycles of my own, I thought his comments were amazingly insightful, and the weariness with which he made them showed how this is an issue he has wrestled with over time ("I can't write like that any more, but I can do other things," said with as much hope as he could muster). In fact, there was a lot of weariness in his remarks, and his delivery; I don't think this was done for effect, I think that's just who he is these days. And given the life he has led, I can understand why he would be pretty roadworn by now.

I'm not sure what other people were expecting that left them disappointed, but I was glad for a chance to hear him talking directly about who he is, what he does, and what it means to him. I also eagerly devoured his book, and hope he follows through on writing the next volumes.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: PoppaGator
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:21 AM

Amen, Whistle Stop.

I found Bob interesting enough, and am surprised at how much negative reaction I found here on the morning after. Perhaps it's a matter of expectation; I wasn't hoping for any earth-shattering pronouncement -- maybe some others were.

To me, the single most interesting moment was when he admitted that the fantastic wellspring of inspiration that was once so accessible to him is long gone. He quoted a few very intense lines of "It's Alright Ma" as an example of what neither he nor anyone else could come up with today. ("You go write something like that!")

He has undoubtedly become more of a craftsman as a songwriter since his incendiary youth, and has probably gotten better at producing melodies, but that amazing rush of words -- well, it's all over now.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:36 AM

I'm in agreement with Whistle Stop

Art

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: Steve-o
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 02:01 PM

Yep, I was also surprised by all the negative reactions and whining. Can't imagine what these folks were expecting- a 15 minute interview that would reveal all the deep secrets and warm fuzzies we all long for in a music hero?? If you want to get a real sense of the man, go buy the book and read it! "I think his music is great- his persona the opposite"- there's a brilliant observation for ya.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 02:05 PM

I too found his comment about no longer being able to write the songs that everyone hails as "his best" to be revealing. The boring part of that statement though, is he seemed so unreflective about it.

Like I said, nothing we hadn't heard before. Dylan seemed mostly bored with the interview himself, so it is no surprise that others found him boring as well.

I guess for you Dylan devotees who hang on his every word, this was just another tasty fix. But from most peoples' perspectives, it seemed dull and not very illuminating of the man or his canon of work.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 02:40 PM

Cluin - I was completely unaware of the parody; I'd be muchly interested in it.

Off on a tangent: I seem to recall a very short-lived commercial for some financial service that used a bit of Phil Ochs' "Changes". *sigh*

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 03:38 PM

I remember hearing them say that - in order to help change the publics opinion about himself - that he wrote some bad albums. I wonder which ones those were ? Possibly one of my favorites ?

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:13 PM

I'm just amazed that so many people are critics and are ready to pounce on Dylan because of his comments.   Who cares?   The man is 63 years old. Why hang him because of his actions when he was younger? Since the average age of many mudcatters is "older than dirt", I'm sure many of you would not care to be judged on things you said or did when you were in your early twenties. To call someone a hypocrit because of something they said 40 years ago is really smarmy.

People moan that Dylan is "mysterious" and "hidden", but then when he speaks they love to pounce on what he DOESN'T say and also complain that he is inarticulate.   Why don't you pay attention to the things he did say?   He was giving the rock version of Greta Garbo's "I want to be alone".

The man is not a messiah or a voice for a generation. He is a voice who happens to write good songs. End of story. I don't need to hear about his personal life.   Read the book, it said as much as he wants to share which is more than enough.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:27 PM

Wesley - "Nashville Skyline" (1968) was a departure into country music that was meant to throw a curve at his audience's expectations, but it wasn't a "bad album" as such. "Self-Portrait" (1970?) was an album deliberately concocted to demolish the "Voice of a generation" icon worship that was occurring around Bob. He figured his fans would mostly hate it, and hopefully would go away...

That said, there is still some good stuff on Self-Portrait...and there's some very poor stuff too. It's an odd hodge-podge of material.

"John Wesley Harding" (1967) was another major departure in style (after Blonde on Blonde), but it was a very good album.

So to answer your question...I think he deliberately calculated "Self-Portrait" to be received as a "bad album" and get people off his back.

Those who have the most stringent requirements and rigid expectations about their heroes (or goats) are the ones most likely to be disappointed...

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:48 PM

To you Dylan devotees (Little Hawk, PoppaGator, Ron Olesko, et al) we aren't trying to trash your boy.

If we think the interview, which we took time out of our lives to watch, was dull, why shouldn't we say so? Why can't we have that kind of a conversation around this place, without the DD rushing in to defend the guy no matter what he does? This is SO silly!

Did you actually see the interview Ron?

Again, what exactly is the reason why the DDs of Mudcat can't let a single thread about Dylan go by without coming in like knights on white horses to save The Bob from criticism?

After all his years jerking people's chains like he has, lying, misrepresenting himself, his work, and the work of others, it ain't like the dude don't have plenty to answer for...

...and again, as entertainment, this interview was a dud. Boring. Nothing new under the sun, etc etc etc

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:56 PM

Please guest, you give me too much credit for calling me a Dylan Devotee.

Yes, I saw the interview. It wasn't anything great. Bradley asked some pretty silly questions and I don't blame Dylan for his answers. Never have. He used the press, just like the press used him. It was a mutual "jerking of people's chains".

Nobody is saying you shouldn't criticize, but misguided criticism is a waste of time. If you read some of these comments, people are complaining for things he did NOT say. Dylan is what he is. Nothing more. You make claims that Dylan has lied and misrepresented himself and others.   If he was asked THOSE questions, perhaps your criticim owuld have some validity. Instead he was asked boring, mundane questions. Do we really care how long it took to write "Blowing in the Wind"? Is it necessary for him to give those kind of answers? Why do we EXPECT people to answer questions like that?

Likewise, if someone defends Dylan, you should not jump over the messenger. Just make a stronger case to defend your points - or at least have a point to make. Give us examples, not rhetoric.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:59 PM

The really important critical question that no one has dared ask so far is :

Isn't Bob Dylan a little old to be wearing leather pants ? And what message is he trying to send to his generation ?

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 05:20 PM

Hey, Guest. No sweat. Knock yourself out. Revile Bob mercilessly. I don't care. If you want a picture of Bob to throw darts at, I'll send you one... :-)

The reason we "Bob devotees" come onto these threads is amazingly simple: We're interested in the subject matter!

You might have noticed that I don't show up on threads about football...

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: PoppaGator
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 05:20 PM

The leather pants looked a lot smoother than the leather skin.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 05:22 PM

Did anyone notice that both Dylan and Bradley have really bad teeth? I hope Crest was not a sponsor of last nights show.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 05:28 PM

Ron, again your usual problem is believing you should be able to control what other people say, and how they say it. You can't.

Little Hawk, we aren't "reviling" The Bobster. We are talking about his interview on 60 Minutes, which was a snoozer. Big difference, even if not to the DDs.

Wesley S, the answer to your leather pants question is yes, and it is the same answer to that Victoria's Secret commercial!

Finally, last night Dylan said he not only dissed the media and jerked their chains, but he smugly and arrogantly admitted doing same to his fans, when his fame became an annoyance to him.

In my book, that makes the guy a user, and a jerk. Now I have proof to back up that claim!

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 05:37 PM

Guest, chill out! I'm speaking my own mind, just like you. You love to misinterpret what others are trying to discuss. If someone doesn't agree with you, you attack the messenger. I can't control what you say, but I can certainly hold up a mirror.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 05:46 PM

Like I said, Guest, knock yourself out... Have fun... I am. :-)

Pity that you couldn't get together with A.J. Weberman, the infamous "Dylanologist" who used to go through Bob's trash cans back in the late 60's...he was also looking for "PROOF!" of Bob's betrayal of his public. Bob got hold of Weberman one day and punched him out. Weberman probably went around for days afterward saying stuff like, "See this bruise under my eye? Bob Dylan hit me right here. See? For five bucks I'll let you touch it!"

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: Steve-o
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:10 PM

...."After all his years jerking people's chains like he has, lying, misrepresenting himself, his work, and the work of others, it ain't like the dude don't have plenty to answer for..."- Who is this yo-yo GUEST?? Why don't you go find something important to do with your vitriol?!

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: PoppaGator
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:34 PM

Hey, I'm fascinated (perhaps unduly so) by The Bob, and I love much of his work, but I won't argue with anyone for calling him a liar.

He came to New York with a lot of made-up stories about himself, and he hid and denied the simple truth of his personal background long enough for a number of fictional "autobiographical" details to be widely published.

I suppose this can be defended as some sort of artisitic decision, not unlike renaming himself, but a certain degree of bad faith has to have been involved. Maybe that's when and how he bought himself enough bad karma to bring on the kind of fame that quickly became so uncomfortable for him to live with.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: Justa Picker
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:48 PM

I've interviewed accountants with more charisma.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:59 PM

Perfect note there, PoppaGator!

I also won't argue with anyone calling The Bob a great songwriter back in the day. I might disagree on the more recent stuff though. I listened to the latest, the greatest, the Grammy winning in an Elvis outfit "Time Out of Mind" come back album, and admit to just not getting what all the brouhaha was about. I didn't find it nearly as good or interesting or musicially compelling as the Steely Dan come back album, for instance (I'm shooting for one of those apple comparisons here).

My personal interest in The Bob is no greater (and actually a lot lesser) than some other great MN musician/icon/music idol and homeys with roots here in MN--like The Artist and Judy Garland. At least the latter two could sing!

Maybe they invent all these stories about themselves because the truth about them is so bloody dull.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:06 PM

let's see an accountant write poetry like Dylan.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: Peter T.
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:09 PM

I think Dylan is delusional -- he asks people to look at the songs more carefully and they will see that he wasn't a prophet -- like sure Bob, like Times They Are a Changing, Hard Rain, Gates of Eden, When the Ship Comes In.   I think he rejected the prophet pose after it started to really work -- I think he wisely worried about the nature of his gathering power -- but to believe that that wasn't what he was doing is nuts -- he may have told the counterstory so long that he now believes it, but he is still delusional.   Calling his Wailing Wall visit a "stunt" -- who does he think is going to believe that?

I think that the later music is deeply boring, including the stuff from the last five years or so. One or two flashes (the best parts plagiarized).

Still, a genius. Shave the mustache, Bob, if you want to get out of the Edgar Allan Poe movie!

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:13 PM

Ron,
Let's see a folkie embrace an instrumentalist.

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:14 PM

Better yet, let's see Dylan write poetry like Ginsburg. Not even close!

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:33 PM

PT used "counterstory." I think myth works in a number of cases as well. Bob is still trying to sell us a crafted story along the lines he wants us to believe. It's been working for him for years and I think he'll make it work awhile longer. When he dies the myth will grow to outrageous proportion.

Has he lost it? Hell, I'm amazed he ever had it.....or that anyone would, at least to write such powerful songs for an extended period. Take any three decent songs of Bob's and they're a career to many others. He can still wrtie but he's just another songwriter. I think that even he is amazed to some degree at the number and quality of his first 10 years.

Most of the mystique/myth/total bullshit stuff is still flowing along.......like the whole Woody thing. Listen to his playing, his voice, and his phrasing on those early albums. Bob wasn't trying to be Woody. He was trying to be Ramblin' Jack (who was trying to be Woody) but with ambition....and he pretty well succeeded. Ferchrissakes, Bob hardly ever saw Woody, let alone worship at his feet! The best flip side to that is that no one (IMNSHO) does early Dylan stuff better than Jack, including Bob!!!

It was Bob.....It was "60 Minutes."......And you expected what????

Spaw

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:36 PM

Or poetry like Bob Kaufman. Or Anne Carson. Or so many other truly gifted poets who are poets (not songwriters) and contemporaries of Dylan.

Dylan was at one time a great songwriter. By his own admission, he ain't anymore. He was never a gifted poet. Only people who never read poetry believe that hype.

And here is what I can't figure out. Why can't Dylan still write great songs like he used to? I mean, many of the best songwriters down through the ages just got better with age, not worse.

So was I surprised to hear Dylan admit the obvious last night about his former songwriting glory years? No. But I found it very odd that he didn't seem to give a shit about the fact either. Like I said, not much to indicate that he is a very reflective person at all.

Which made me think that maybe selling out is the key. After you sell out, there isn't the same impetus to write as there was before he cynically sold himself out.

And his comments like "I can do other things now" (really Bob, like what?), and that he was still touring because it was his destiny/soul's purpose, just sounded empty, hollow, and sad--not at all genuine. Did anyone else notice that?

Subject: RE: Dylan on 60 Minutes
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:48 PM

Ron,

Very perceptive of you.

Billy Bob Teeth are very cool. I thought it amazing that both Bob and Ed chose to wear theirs for this TV interview. I prized mine highly until a friend insisted I sell them my last pair. Instantly, I popped them out of my mouth, washed 'em off, and gave them to the lady.

Really, put B.B.T. into a search engine------and marvel.