ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat

Subject: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 08:35 PM

To all my Christian, Jewish, Atheist, Republican and Democrat friends in the Cat.

Once again, I see the threads appearing that seek to divide us into camps. That's part of what Mudcat was, is and will be. But, I'd just like to wish everyone in here, whether you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, a foolish day dream or a hoax, and all you people who are died in the wool Republicans, Democrats, liberals, conservatives, Jews, Muslims, disbelievers, de-bunkers, sceptics and cynics a wonderful Christmas, Hannakuh, Winter solstice, or what ever you celebrate. If you don't celebrate a particular season, celebrate the day.

If you believe in God, lift his name in praise for all the blessings of your life. If you don't believe in God, hug a stranger on the street and tell them that you're glad they are alive. Whatever your policital or religious leaning, work for community and commonality.
Enjoy each other, despite our differences.

If there can't be peace on earth, or even in Mudcat, make peace where you can make it.

And take peace where you can find it.

Rejoice in what we have, and try to find a way to rejoice in each other.

Merry Christmas to jimmyt and Bobert and Khandu and the rest. Happy Hannuka to Martin and company, and may all good things come to my friends Art Thieme, Bill D and all those who seek goodness in others, despite all the evidence to the contrary in this world.

It's good to be alive.

Jerry

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: jimmyt
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 08:51 PM

As usual, Jerry, you are spot on.   Hope the holiday season is good for each and every one of you. Thanks for making sense, Jerry

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: mack/misophist
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 08:53 PM

Thank you. And the same to you. Don't forget Kwanza.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 08:56 PM

I didn't forget Kwanza, Mack. Just wasn't sure how to spell it. One half of my family is African-American, so there's no way we're not celebrating Kwanza. We even do a major production with music and dance, tracing the life of African-Americans from slavery to the present, if the black Baptist Church where we're members.

I thought it was spelled Kwanzaa.. shows how wrong I was.

Probably not in the dictionary yet.

Jerry

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 09:21 PM

And if you can't be with the one you make peace with
Make peace with the one your with...

Somehow doesn't have the same ring!

To my Jewish friends I say Happy Haunuka
To my Arab friends I would say Happy Ramidan
To my Pagan Friends I would wish a Happy Solstice (even though I'm not sure that would be a proper greeting).

You see I believe America is a great melting pot where one can be a welcome member of the community without losing ones heritage or being forced to minimize it. This is a problem when every Dec. 25th comes aroung and I see Happy Hollydays or some such nonsense. For me it is Christmas! You are all cordially invited to attend regardless of your belief. Because what this is all about is one person (in my religeon, God) loving his people so much that he sent us the greatest gift that anyone ever could, a gift of himself and a gift that in the end would bring us all together.


You don't have to be Christian or American or anything special to share a holiday that is based on love, giving, forgiveness and understanding.

My house is open to you all. Please partake of the love and friendship. All my best and Merry Christmas!

Chief Chaos

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 09:33 PM

Unfortunately, it is the Christians and their relatives who may or may not label themselves as such, but are born of a Christian community all the same, who believe in this fairy tale that "Christmas is for everyone".

That is like saying the Chinese can be thankful on American Thanksgiving.

Which part of "not our holiday" do you Christians not get?

Why is it that you Christians can't just accept the fact that not everyone WANTS to share in your celebration of your holiday? What is so hard to figure out about this?

Do Christians feel compelled to seek out Muslims in order to celebrate Ramadan? I think not.

It's already bad enough, having to live through the American capitalist "holidays" year in and year out, without having it pushed and shoved upon anyone and everyone on the planet.

Buy a clue, Christians. You aren't the world majority.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 09:43 PM

And a happy whatever to you, Guest. By the way, both of my sons from my second marriage are Muslim, and we respect their observation of Ramadan, and they join in our celebration of Christmas. One of my sons is an Agnostic, and he celebrates Christmas, not for the birth of Christ, but because it is a time of loving acceptance and family unity. My agnostic son and Muslim sons choose to celebrate Christmas with us, not because it is being crammed down their throats, but out of love.

Find peace where you can... we all need it, and I wish it for you.

Jerry

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: mg
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 09:47 PM

The Chinese people I know tend to celebrate Thanksgiving. They like it. mg

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 09:58 PM

Everyone has a reason to be thankful, Mary.

Jerry

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: bbc
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 10:01 PM

Jerry, everywhere I've seen it, Kwanzaa was spelled w/ the 2 a's. I'll be reading about it w/ my students, as well as Christmas & Hanukkah.

Best of the season to all,

bbc

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 10:09 PM

You know what Jerry? I think you are a liar, trying to spread Christian propaganda. First, half your family is African American. Then someone uses the example of Muslim religion, and you come back with Muslim relatives. Jeezus H. Christ Jerry, I think we better let Oprah know about you. You are just so fucking special, with all those happy mixes of races and religions under your roof, being happy little Christians and respecting one another.

So Jerry, where are your Jewish family and friends? All your Hindu relatives? Or your Sikh relatives? How about your orthodox relatives Jerry, have their denounced their religion to join in your happy little Christian capitalist "holidays"?

Mary Garvey, have you spent all your Thanksgivings in China? Do most of the Chinese people who live in China, and have never been anywhere else on the planet (and Mary, there are billions of them, and only millions of Americans, mind "tend to celebrate" American thanksgiving?

Here is the thing good wee Christians all. You are myopically American and myopically Christian Americans, and that has proven to be a damn deadly combination for the rest the world.

So maybe it's time to rethink the savior and apocalypse strategies, or go join Mel in the Hollywood mountains of the La La Christian Homeland.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 10:32 PM

My, my. No, I don't have any Jewish relatives, or any Iraquis, or Native Americans. My Mother is half French. Does that count? The good thing about my family is that we aren't particularly special.
We also have gay family members, but then, who doesn't?

And, my black Baptist friends love bluegrass, and I'm sure would have a good time jamming with Martin Gibson.

I married into a black family, and we didn't find any problems accepting each other. My wife and I have been to Muslim/Christian/Jewish celebrations where people are trying to understand each other to promote brotherhood.

Nothing particularly special or precious about that either.

We's pretty ordinary folks.

Jerry

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Amos
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 11:10 PM

Nasty-mouth:

No-one on the planet gets to escape the turning of the year.

It's one thing we all have in common.

The survivors get to celebrate it. in a spirit of good will as far as they can see.

Buy your own clue.

A

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: GUEST,Cluin
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 11:25 PM

Ignore, Jerry, ignore. If GUEST doesn't want to join the party, nobody is forcing the eggnog down his/her throat. The rest of us wish you happy holidays too.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: mack/misophist
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 12:31 AM

There's a very good chance I spelled Kwanza wrong. I'm not certain if there's an "official' spelling yet.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 03:49 AM

Lovely sentiments, Jerry. Thanks and the same back to you.

..xx..e

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:35 AM

I remember hearing on NPR of a Jewish man with emergency training who for years and years would work Christmas day to allow some Christian who otherwise would be on duty to have a day off. I don't remember the details, but thought it was a nice gesture.

In that spirit I would like to join in the good wishes. We need to acknowledge our common humanity every so often.

I'm also enjoying GUEST Troll. He's like the guy who was hired to wander around ancient parties reminding guests that this, too, would end.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:41 AM

What Guest?

And, Kwanzaa is spelled with two "a"s at the end. Kwanzaa is a recent creation, started in 1994 by a black college professor who wanted to create a tradition around the history and ideals of African Americans. It is not as such a "religious" ceremony and I haven't seen it celebrated in black churches, or even very prominently acknowledged. It's more of a time for recognition of the heritage and struggles of Africans and African-Americans.

Yes, Ellen, this should be a joyful time with the convergence of several mid-winter celebrations. A little bit for everyone.

Jerry

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:44 AM

Excuse me, but the thread title says nothing about Christmas. I opened it thinking it was a thread discussing tolerance for diverse opinions and ideas.

Obviously, I was wrong about that. It's just more Christian Christmas proselytizing, and yes, shoving egg nog down the non-Christians' throats.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: freda underhill
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:00 AM

"...If you don't believe in God, hug a stranger on the street and tell them that you're glad they are alive. Whatever your political or religious leaning, work for community and commonality.
Enjoy each other, despite our differences.

If there can't be peace on earth, or even in Mudcat, make peace where you can make it. And take peace where you can find it.

Rejoice in what we have, and try to find a way to rejoice in each other.

Merry Christmas to jimmyt and Bobert and Khandu and the rest. Happy Hannuka to Martin and company, and may all good things come to my friends Art Thieme, Bill D and all those who seek goodness in others, despite all the evidence to the contrary in this world.

It's good to be alive."

thanks for extending your good wishes to everyone Jerry, and happy turning of the year to you, too.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:01 AM

I confess - I'm a Christian and I hate eggnog. Nasty stuff.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:25 AM

I'm with you, Wesley. The only Holiday drink I like less than eggnog is Glog. During Ramadan, which has already passed, Muslims aren't allowed to eat until after sunset. They should give thanks that Ramadan doesn't come in June. :-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: PoppaGator
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:02 AM

Mr. pissed-off GUEST, would you be happier if we were to call the upcoming celebration "Yuletide" rather than "Christmas"?

Yuletide predates Christianity, and I believe the term is comfortably traditional, widely accepted, and carries less connotation of sectarian New-Age paganism than, say, "celebration of the Solstice." Could anything be more neutral or "correct"?

A Joyful Yule to all. Please extend goodwill to everyone, acknowedge the desireability of peace on earth [notice how I studiously avoid the expression "pray for"], and feast until you're stuffed.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:15 AM

Some folks just don't get it.
Everyones invited but there will be no repercussions if you choose not to attend.
And I have attended traditional Jewish ceremonies (those that are open to non-Jews).
I have attended some training on Ramadan (but I've never been in a place that had a large muslim community and except for some African American friends who might be Muslim (never asked) I don't have any Arab Muslim friends (not that I wouldn't but I ust don't).

What I was trying to say was that I respect and am tolerant of other religeons and have no problem with seeing their synogogues, mosks, decorations etc.

I am having problems with the refusal of America to give Christmas it's due by acknowledgeing Christmas instead of being afraid and calling it Hollydays, X-mas, or whatever. You can't ask for and expect respect and tolerance if you're not willing to reciprocate.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:33 AM

Just a reminder... this is not a Merry Christmas thread, although that is one of many wishes that were posted in my original message. I'ts a Happy Hannakuh, Rousing Ramadan, Wonderful Winter Solstice, Noisy None Of The Above thread rejoicing in each other, despite our differences.

There is a glut of threads beating up on each other for our differences.

This is a thread for expressing appreciation of each other. At least that was the spirit in which I started it. Where it goes from here is up to those who want to post to it.

Good will to all.. Guest included

Jerry
Jerry

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:22 AM

Thanks for your post Jerry. It was well-taken by me and others.

Tolerance, good-will toward all is not exclusively a Christian virtue. Many secular humanists and atheists agree with you.

Christmas is a pagan holiday basically. The tree, the yule log, the presents are not found in the New Testament or in historical biblical documents. Dec. 25 is not Jesus birthday as well.

Chanukkah is an entirely different holiday with a celebration of the Jewish spirit over oppression. It could be relevant today as a model for inspiring what the Iraqi people are going through with their foreign occupation.

Happy Diwali, Ramadan, Kwanzaa, and every Winter Soltice celebration and thank you Jerry for reminding us that we are connected in our celebrations.

Frank

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Midchuck
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:46 AM

What hard evidence is there that Jesu ben Joseph was born on 12/25, or anywhere around the Winter Solistice?

Cynics claim that the early Christian church put the date there so as to "take over" the pagan Yule holiday as a Christian one. Makes sense to me.

On the other hand, if we still had an "old-fashioned" Yule, we might be burning a human sacrifice over the yule log, instead of merely sacrificing our good credit standing to buy people presents that they don't need. So maybe it's just as well.

Peter.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: PoppaGator
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:53 AM

Presents, poultry, and alcohol for everyone!

Er, um, better amend that to say "the intoxicant of your choice, if any."

I don't mean to exclude recovering alcoholics, Muslims, or (if they still exist) puritanical potheads who would never stoop to drink.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 12:26 PM

What can I say except: I agree with Jerry. My family is as "diverse" as anyones. The times we conflict are when one person's dogmas and seriously held beliefs are at odds with the personal doings of some others. Generally we get past it pretty easily now. We agree to disagree and love each other in spite of the other being WRONG. ;-)

Jerry is probably my greatest friend. Ruth has become a good friend as well. I am an atheist completely secular Jew. My mother was a Jew so Jews condider me a Jew. My Jewishness was also determined by Hitler who would've burned me because of who my mother was. I practice none of it -- except a liking for matzah (however you spell it) and matzahball soup (as long as the matzahballs are heavy like apples and dense like soft granite. (Ya gotta chew 'em.) My wife of nearly 40 years is a Jehovah's Witness. Our son's web site is called HEATHEN'S HAVEN. (Check it out. He writes some great things.) My brother was an Episcopal priest for many years.

All I can tell you is that it is about love--and putting stuff on the back burner when necessary. Possibly this is why I understand that politics, while heated during elections, in a Democracy, must include compromise>/I>.

Jerry, thanks for the gift. I love 'em.

Art

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 02:31 PM

"You can't ask for and expect respect and tolerance if you're not willing to reciprocate."

Sure, that will work just as soon as we have cultural parity here--ie Christmas isn't a paid holiday unless the holy days of Ramadan, Hannukah, etc are paid holidays.

Anything else not only privleges Christianity over all other religions, it most certainly DOES shove Christmas down the throats of other religions and secularists alike. Why? Money. The retail industry wants it that way.

I'd also like it if Americans educated themselves in the area of their own history. As I said in the Kwanzaa thread, the birth of Christ is not universally celebrated by all Christians world-wide on December 25th. Depending upon the country, whether the celebration is Eastern Rite, Roman Catholic, or Protestant, and depending upon the calendar used, the winter celebration honoring Christ can be held anywhere from today (Dec 6) to the end of the Feast of Epiphany on January 6th.

The celebration of the American holiday we call "Christmas" is not universally celebrated beyond a handful of European countries (no not all of them!) and the New World countries dominated by those cultures who do celebrate on December 25th.

It also angers and frustrates me when I see American and European Christians and their apologists ignorantly trying to equate Christmas with the religious and holy days of other religions, as if they were equivalent. Again, that is just pig ignorant, and that is precisely what people here are trying to do.

I know plenty of Jews who would knock your block off if you tried equating Christmas to their holy days, and deservedly so.

"I wish everyone the equivalent of my religion's holiday wishes" is the remark of someone too lazy to learn about people who are different from them, and what insults and what insults.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 02:43 PM

Frank How the FUCK dare you compare what is going on in Iraq to the celebration of Hanukah?

You are the lowest of the low, always with your own agenda. You can turn any good meaning thread into your whining liberal cause agenda.

I completely resent you comparing Iraq today to the oppression Jews have faced over 3000 years.

You are really what's wrong with this country, Frank, except you are to stupid and ignorant to realize it.

Please shove it, Frank. Completely and sideways.

Guest, you are completely right about how Christians equage their Christmas to other celebrations. I am with you about having this crap shoved down my throat. No offense to Jerry Rasmussen, who I believe means well, but get over it, there are people out here who don't give a rat's ass about Christmas, it's meaning, it's traditions, and most of all it's commercialism.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 03:12 PM

That's what this thread is all about, Martin.. it was started to include people who "don't give a rat's ass about Christmas" Or Hannakuh, or Ramadan. Or Kwanzaa. This thread was started not to compare the worth of each other's holidays, but to respect and enjoy each other. It's slowly being hijacked into an anti-Christmas thread.

You're right, Martin, I do indeed mean well. And wish you well, and all others in here.

It's as simple as that..

Jerry

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 03:26 PM

I know that Jerry, but when Frank twists it to fit his own needs and his own agenda, especially his whining political agenda, and compares the strife of a country that hates Jews to Jews he needs to have the proverbial broomstick shoved up his ass.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:11 PM

I'm glad you know that I have no religious agenda in this thread, Martin The purpose of the thread is to transcend our agendas and try to appreciate each other for who we are: flawed beings.

Jerry

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:17 PM

Like I said Jerry, I knew your intentions were good to begin with.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:41 PM

With all due respect to Jerry (even though I don't think he is due any, as I think this is one manipulative thread with a Christian agenda, disguised as the Christian "good will to all"):

...the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Keep your Christmas greetings and well wishing to your own, and don't expect "good wishes" in return for your Christian manipulations from non-Christians on this subject. It's a damn touchy one amongst non-Christian Americans.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 05:00 PM

THis idea seems to be a sort of "Get the Christ out of Christmas" campaign. Which is fine by me--I like the lights and trees and music and stuff. Seems that it would be more apt to upset devout Christians more than others if the celebration were generalized to leave the religious aspects out.

A we usd to say in the early days of Political Correctness:
"Have a happy non-sectarian year end holiday."

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 05:24 PM

I have a button that I wear every year that some friends of mine made up years ago. It says:

"Don't assume I celebrate, appreciate, or reciprocate your Christmas cheer!"

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:13 PM

Frank,

When two situations seem to show illustratively that they could and do shed light each other, it would be remiss not to take notice of the facts of those situation with hopes that peace might be one step closer to being achieved. I am glad to stand with you on this. You got an interesting reaction from some here. I feel sorry for them.

Art

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Peace
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:40 PM

I do not celebrate Christmas. Nor do I celebrate any other holy days--except maybe the 365 in most years. However, it's a person poor in spirit who begrudges others their 'way' of worship.

I do not believe for a second that Jerry had any agendas starting this thread: He believes in the equality of all people and the good in all people. He has said that at many other times and on many other threads. He's a peacemaker, and the world could use more like him. Good for you, Jerry. Have a wonderful X-mas with your family and friends.

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:09 PM

Thanks Jerry,

When its Christmas, my Chinese friends wish me a Merry Christmas, not because they believe in Christmas but because they think its an important time for me. On Chinese New Year, I wish them Gung hay fat choi. It doesn't mean I celebrate it but I'm happy for them. We all have different customs and beliefs. Most of them revolve around family. Nothing wrong with being happy that your friends and neighbors are celebrating a special day.

I am pretty disgusted with those that think everyone else is the enemy.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Cluin
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:34 PM

GUEST, you will be visited by three spirits. Expect the first when you get up to pee.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Peace
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:58 PM

I get up to pee eight times a night. Should I expect the apparitions from Macbeth?

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:09 AM

No. You're probably alright, brucie. Just watch out for that stream from your bladder untimely ripped.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Peace
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:11 AM

That won't happen until the woods move to Dunsinane Hill, so I'm safe for a bit then. Whew.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:22 AM

Then sleep some more, brucie. Sleep some more.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Peace
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:25 AM

Good night, Mary Sue. Good night, Billy Bob. Goodnight, John Boy.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

psssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:56 AM

I am not Christian, but I do not feel insulted or offended when someone wishes me a Happy Christmas, though I will confess that if someone who knows my background is thoughtful enough to wish me a Happy Chanukah instead, I do appreciate it.

Jerry, I have no trouble believing you had no agenda whatsoever in starting this thread, other than to wish people well, give us all a bit of a lift and encourage us to focus on things we have in common rather than things to tear into each other about.

May I take this opportunity to wish you the very best and to thank you for the large number of gentle, thought-provoking and often uplifting threads you post. IMHO, you have started many of the very best threads I've seen on this forum. I wish more people followed your example.

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:46 AM

Jerry, a blessed Christmas to you and yours, and a very happy, healthy and peaceful new year as well. Thank you.

Seamus

Subject: RE: ChristianJewishAtheistRepublicanDemocrat
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 09:45 AM

I'm an atheist who is not at all offended by Christmas, neither by the use of the word nor by the holiday (season). It's a tradition in our culture, and a good one I may add. I love this time of the year and I'll celebrate it with my family. Even in singing songs I'm not looking in particular for 'atheist hymns' or whatever. The old songs are good enough for me. If I forget/overlook all the special Christian content of that day it is still a holiday of love and brotherhood and that's a good idea for a holiday whatever the historical origin.

When I say the word 'Friday' (and I say it much more often than the word 'Christmas') I am not endorsing the faith knowing this Nordic goddess who has given her name to that day. Also, someone saying to me 'See you next Wednesday' will not be criticised for using a word with religious connotations. I live on a continent named for a female from an (invented if you really ask me) story about a Greek god, our skies are full of Greek gods, our days of the weeks mostly come from Nordic gods, so a few days of the year named after Christian stories really do not hurt anybody as long as the basic sentiment is good.

Frohe Weihnachten und not 'Grüße der Saison'

Wolfgang