Tech: How do you put something on the DT

Subject: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: Chris Green
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 07:21 PM

Having used the cat for a while to find lyrics and things - how do you go about actually putting a song on the DT? And while we're at it how do you create a MIDI file for the tune?

(And to forestall a possible barrage of abuse, no, I'm not intending to put any of my own compositions on - just some trad songs that aren't there!)

Ta in advance!

Chris

Subject: RE: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 07:39 PM

Talk to one of the JoeClones, they'll help you. A PM to Joe Offer or Pene Azul will help.

LTS

Subject: RE: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: Chris Green
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 07:41 PM

Ta! Will do! :)

Subject: RE: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 07:44 PM

You don't actually put it in the DT yourself - you add a thread with the title "Lyr Add: [whatever the song title is]" and put the words in the message body and it gets 'harvested' eventually. You should check the search to see if a thread on that song exists, if you do, and you have a different version, add it in to that (or one of those) thread(s).

Robin

Subject: RE: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 10:11 PM

While strictly shareware the program owners are very generous in terms of perpetual usage for small music projects. There are lots of other programs but NWC is used by many Mudcatters here - and it works well. If you aren't able to create the MIDI yourself, but have a copy of the musical score then either make a request for help after you post the lyrics (remembering that the lyrics and/or tune may already exist) or send a Personal Message to MMARIO here at Mudcat. Regards, John PS There are lots of other ways of creating MIDIs, eg by using scanning software, intermediate music languages such as ABC or Lilypond, editing existing MIDIs from the Web or entering from a digital piano keyboard. And of course there are a number of utilities for MAcs and Linux. There's quite a variety of experience here at Mudcat.

Subject: RE: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 03:40 AM

For lyrics, try to find an existing thread on the song and post the lyrics there. If the song hasn't been discussed or requested, start a new thread and post it. Be sure to tell us where you got the lyrics (from such-and-such a songbook, from memory, transcribed from a recording, etc.). Be sure to give proper songwriter attribution, and publication date if you know it.
We're doing our best to index songs that have been posted, and to cross-reference related threads. Take a look at our Song Origins section to see what's done so far.

...and once you've created that MIDI, you can e-mail a copy to me for posting.

-Joe Offer-
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: Chris Green
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 07:56 AM

Thanks chaps!

Subject: RE: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: pavane
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 07:59 AM

And don't forget my program HARMONY which can take an abc and make a MIDI file complete with lyrics, Karaoke style.

To use it, there are free PC programs available which will play and display Karaoke MIDI's.

My site

PS for guitarists etc to play along, you can include and display the chords instead of the Lyric!

Subject: RE: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: MMario
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 08:51 AM

Chris - if you have any of the Missing tunes and should happen to send Joe a midi - just let me know okay, so I can cross it off the list? PM or posting to the thread in the above link would do it...

Subject: RE: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 10:29 AM

It might help to note - since it wasn't obvious even to me at first I'll come right out and say it - you can change the "Subject" for an individual post in a thread. It will still post as part of the thread, but can have whatever "edited" name you want. If you change your lyric post to "LYR ADD: Name of Lyric" your individual post will will have the "LYR ADD" tag, but still be within the thread where you posted it. The "LYR ADD:" or just an "ADD:" label on your individual "Submit/Post" allows the elfs to search it out when it comes time to look for new stuff to put into the DT.

I believe the recommendation is that you start a new thread with the LYR ADD: prefix for anything not already in the DT; but you can tag an individual posting within a thread if there is an ongoing thread, if you have an additional verse or a significant variant, for something that's being discussed, or in response to a request for the lyric. This way your submittal stays with related information.

It does also help to send a note to at least one of those mentioned above, since otherwise your addition may "languish in obscurity" until one of the periodic cleanup campaigns. (It may languish a bit anyway, but at least they'll have a chance to hurry it along if appropriate.)

There is a "PermaThread" on posting of Lyrics, at Posting Lyrics PermaThread.

(When you forget where it is, you click on the "FAQ" button, just below the "GO" at the top right of the "Lyrics and Knowledge" page. Scroll down a bit to the "PermaThreads" box, and look for "Posting Lyrics" and its twin, "Posting Tunes.")

A PermaThread will usually have some instructions for how to do something, and serves as a sort of "scratch pad" for bringing things to notice. If you forget who you should tell when you post your lyric in a new thread or in one where there's discussion of the lyric, you can put a "Hey I Added: Lyric Name in Thread: Name of thread" in the appropriate PermaThread and it will usually be picked up pretty quickly. (Ideally, you should post a link to the thread where you posted. See the rest of the FAQ for details on that.) Posting in the PermaThread, or notifying someone directly, doesn't necessarily mean your addition will get into the DT immediately, but raises the odds that it will be considered for inclusion at a next update of the DT.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: MMario
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 10:34 AM

Also please note that though the MudCat Cafe *HOSTS* the DT - the DT is a seperate entity and is administered by Dick Greenhaus. In the long run - it is he who makes all the decisions regarding the DT and what is or isn't included.

Subject: RE: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 01:05 PM

So far, I've tried to post one song (well, one intended for harvesting) but didn't seem to do it properly, so haven't tried again (yet). Have been meaning to ask about it but never quite got 'round to it, so this seems like a good time/place to do so...

I carefully read the FAQ/instructions about posting songs, and duly made sure there was a < br > at the end of every line (as well as hitting 'Return'); but when I posted it, it ended up double-spaced – so I've been wondering if that's no longer necessary, or maybe doesn't end up looking like that when it's transferred to the DT (seems unlikely though, 'cos I've noticed that when other folks post songs, they (the songs) don't end up double spaced). Can anyone clue me in?

---

Hi, DB - We went to automatic line breaks a couple of years ago. I thought I had changed all the line break instructions, but I guess I missed one in the FAQ. If you know of others, tell me where they are, and I'll fix them.
if a post ends up double-spaced, it's not the end of the world. We can fix it.
-Joe Offer-
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: MMario
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 01:09 PM

YY - the "br" is no longer needed - that section was written before auto-line feeds were implemented.

Subject: RE: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 01:22 PM

MMario & YY

auto line feeds work on the main 'cat, IF you have a "check" in the Automatic Linebreaks box beside the Submit button. If, for some unfathonable reason, you really want to use them, you can turn off the Automatic breaks by removing the check. (But they still seem to be needed on the HELP server - or have I missed something.)

The REAL KEY TO POSTING (especially anything unusual) is to click the "Preview" box, then "Submit." If it doesn't look like you expected, you can fix it - (and nobody else will know). Hit the Submit without the "Preview" box checked to ACTUALLY post after you've made any adjustments you want.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 09:35 PM

Thanks for that – now things make a bit more sense to me.

JiK – thanks for the tip – it's very useful. I actually do that just about every time I post, but I think when I posted that first song, I was so new that I hadn't yet picked up on that feature.

Joe – I know you can fix it, but I hate to make unnecessary work...

I took a quick look at the FAQ to see if I could find where I read about inserting line breaks, and found this and this. I'm not at all sure that these are what led me to think I needed to insert line breaks, and am wondering if some bits about inserting line breaks have been "cleaned up" since I read the thread (prolly about 13-14 months ago), because I seem to remember them being in with the detailed instructions for posting lyrics, but they're certainly not there now.

On the other hand, I have a memory like a steel sieve, so it's entirely possible I'm misremembering... (but I must have seen it somewhere, 'cos it's not the kind of thing that would have occurred to me otherwise). Anyway, it's good to finally know the way things are supposed to work.

Subject: RE: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 05:39 AM

I haven't looked too closely at the FAQ an PermaThreads to know whether they have all been brought up to date. A fairly significant "update" of the main 'cat not too long ago (at least I vaguely remember "before new mudcat") added the automatic linebreaks, and the "Preview" and "Automatic Linebreaks" boxes by the "Submit Message" Button.

In the "BT" (before that) era, the need for inserting breaks was "pushed" in many places, and it may still be mentioned in older threads and/or instructions. Even then, you could just use "double Enter" in typing, and the old 'cat would make a break at two consecutive paragraph marks. Quite a few people actually used that "**technique," as you can see by looking at the "code" for old pages.

** Some people seem to take pride in finding a way to "do it wrong" that works, or at least appears to. I can't complain, usually, since without that I'd never be even a mediocre musician.

Also "BT" the 'cat was on a couple of different servers, and if one was down, or just very slow due to traffic, you could go to a different address to get it from another server. The "multiple URLs" have been eliminated, so now there's just one "real" main address, although the old ones may (or may not) alias into it for you.

If you haven't updated, clicking the 'cat's new address into your Favorites, and maybe deleting obsolete ones you may have there, could be a good idea. I know I have lots of links there that are "BT," although I think I've cleaned up my mudcat links.

It's also a good idea to put the "Help" page in your Favorites (or whatever your browser calls it) since you can often get in there to find out what's happening on those (much rarer) occasions when the main mudcat is down. I believe it's still on a separate server (and as far as I know, still needs those old <br> marks for "clean" posting).

John

Subject: RE: Tech: How do you put something on the DT
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 12:22 AM

The process is similar to the Masonic Lodge.

First - you got to NO-1-2-1.

(Stick around long enough you can hack the code)

Second - you got to respect and acknowledge similar threads that have come before your insight.

(Many, many, may have been here ...and done that before.

Third - consider your personal motive and your thread's value to the DT    (if it is new....if it is unique....if it has at TIME, DATE, URL LOCATION authentication.....IT IS VALID.....Or a solid printed source....AKA.....it has a secondary authentication ...it is GOLD>

Sincerley,

Garpoyle