Lyr Req: Love Is Pleasing

Subject: Lyr Req: Love is pleasing
From: GUEST,Rob Lopresti
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 12:13 AM

Greetings-

I am looking for a source (i.e. in a book) for a particular verse from an English song. I have seen it listed as being in "Love is Pleasing" but it doesn't show up in the published versions of that i have found. I think it also shows up in some versions of "waly waly," but no luck there either.

THe verse goes, approximately:

If I had known when I was courting
That love was such a killing crime
I'd have locked my heart in a box of golden
And tied it up in silver twine.

Anyone have a source for that?

thanks,
Rob Lopresti

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love is pleasing
From: erinmaidin
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 12:25 AM

the song can be found in digitrad under the title "I never thought my love would leave me"

Subject: ADD Version: Love is pleasing
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 12:44 AM

That particular verse doesn't appear in any of the "usual places." It's mentioned in this thread (click) as possibly a Peggy Seeger version, but I couldn't find it in any of my Peggy Seeger songbooks. On a Web search, I found only one complete set of lyrics that included that verse, and no source information - it's from this site (click):

Love is pleasing

Oh love is teasing and love is pleasing
and love's a pleasure when first it is new
but as love grows older and length grows colder,
it fades away like the morning dew.

I left my mother, I left my father,
I left my brothers and sisters too.
I left my home and my kind relations,
I left them all for the love of you.

If I had known then before I courted
that love would be such a killing crime
I'd locked my heart in a box of gold
and tied it up with a silver twine.

(Oh love and porter make young men older
and love and whiskey make old men gray.
What can't be cured, love, must be endured, love,
what can't burn bright must fade away)

---

I guess I'd say "Love Is Teasin', "The Water Is Wide," and "Waly Waly" are all the same song. There are scads of verses, and different renditions use different combinations of verses. I've heard only the one tune, I think.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Lyr Add: LOVE IS TEASING
From: Cluin
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 01:09 AM

Another version... Jane Rothfield sang it on her album with Alan Carr, Atlantic Bridge (Green Linnet SIF 1080)
From the liner notes:

LOVE IS TEASING
(Words Trad. Additional lyrics A. Carr / Tune J. Rothfield ©1986)

Love is pleasing, love is teasing
And love's a pleasure when first it is new
But as love grows older, it soon grows colder
And fades away like the morning dew

I left my home and all my relations
I left them all for the love of you
I came so far to this wild country
Trusting that your heart was true

If I had known before I courted
That love would be such a killing crime
I'd a locked my heart in a box of gold
And tied it up with a silver twine

I never thought that my love would leave me
Until one morning when he came in
He pulled up a chair and sat down beside me
And then my sorrows, they did begin

So girls, beware of your false true lovers
Never mind what the young men say
For they're like a star on a foggy morning
You think they're near and they're far away

Turn around, you wheel of fortune
Turn around and smile on me
For surely there'll be one honest young man
In this wide world, who won't deceive me

Love is pleasing, love is teasing
And love's a pleasure when first it is new
But as love grows older, it soon grows colder
And fades away like the morning dew

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love is pleasing
From: GUEST,Rob Lopresti
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 01:12 PM

Thanks for the comments. Just for those keeping score, I still don't have a written source, outside of Digital Tradition, for the "killing crime" verse. I want to confirm, as much as possible, that it is Trad, or determine that it is not.

Thanks,
Rob

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love is pleasing
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 02:51 PM

The verse is in "Love Is Pleasin'," Lomax, "Folk Songs of North America," No. 70, p. 136 with music (Arranged by Matyas Seiber).
"From the singing of an Irish servant girl, recorded by Jean Ritchie, NY, 1940's."   "Seamus Ennis says: one of the oldest west of Ireland tunes" (no reference).
Verse 3.
If I'd a-knowed before I courted,
That love had a-been such a killin' crime,
I'd a-locked my heart in a box of gold,
And tied it up with a silver twine.

The notes really don't tell us much.

Subject: Lyr/Chords Add: LOVE IS PLEASING (from F Lennon)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 04:17 PM

Frank Lennon hase a different verse and 'bound for Amerikay-

Lyr. Add: Love Is Pleasing

(Intro- Last Line)
Chorus:
Oh (C)love is pleasin' and (G)love is teasin'
And love is a pleasure when first it's (C)new
But (C)as it grows older sure (G)love grows colder
And it fades away like the morning dew(C).

I left my father, I left my mother
I left all my brothers and sisters too
I left all my friends and my own relations
I left them all for to follow you.

Chorus

But the sweetest apple is the soonest rotten
And the hottest love is the soonest cold
And what cannot be cured love, must be endured love
And now I am bound for Amerikay.

Chorus

And love and porter make a young man older
And love and whiskey make him old and grey
And what cannot be cured love must be endured love
And now I am bound for Amerikay.

Chorus

(Intro Repeat- Key D)
(D)I wish, I wish, I (A7) wish in vain
I wish I was a maid a(D)gain
(D)But a maid again I (A7)ne'er will be
Till the cherries grow on an ivy (G)tree.
Chorus (repeat last line- slow)

http:www.socc.ie/~irishmidifiles/lyrics.htm"> Irish Song Lyrics
A good list of Irish songs with lyrics and midis here.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love is pleasing
From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie)
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 04:32 PM

Well it's the very first song on the very first commercial recording I made, EKLP-2 for Elektra, in 1952 or so. I learned it after I came to NYC from Kentucky, from Peggy Staunton (from Co. Sligo) who waited tables for the "Family" at Henry St. Settlement where I lived and worked. Alan Lomax later learned the song from me. It has a lovely melody- different from Jean Redpath's or Peggy Seeger's. Peggy Staunton's verses:

O love is teasin and love is pleasin
And love's a pleasure whene'er it is new,
But as love grows older it grows the colder,
And fades away like the mornin dew.

I left my father, I left my mother,
I left my brothers and sisters too;
I left my home and my fond d-wellin,
O my young man, for the sake of you.

Come all ye fair maids, now take a warnin,
Don't never heed what a young man say;
He is like a star on some foggy mornin-
When you think he's near he is far away.

O love is pleasin, and love is teasin, (etc. repeat first vs)

The old 10" vinyl had a long title, something like, Jean Ritchie- Singing the Songs of Her Kentucky Mountain Family. The new compilation is this record, my second Elektra record, and my later Warner Brothers record...Elektra was taken over by WB, so that's why.
It's one of Rhino's Handmade Series, and is titled, Mountain Hearth and Home, available only online, from Rhino.

Sorry- this is probably more than any of you wanted to know!    Jean

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love is pleasing
From: Joybell
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 04:56 PM

Jean, Your information is very welcome to so many of us. Often I feel sad that I'll die before I get to explore all the trails these old songs lead me. Thank you from one of the Joys in Australia.

Subject: Lyr Add: OH, JOHNNY, JOHNNY (from Sam Henry)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 05:25 PM

A nice version of this song with 1001 names and versions, from Sam Henry.

Lyr. Add: OH, JOHNNY, JOHNNY

Oh, Johnny, Johnny, but love is bonny,
A little while when it is new.
But when it's old it groweth cold
And fades, fades away like the morning dew.

Oh, Johnny, Johnny, but you are nice, love,
In keeping company with me sae lang,
You are the first boy that e'er I had, love,
So kiss me, Johnny, before ye gang.

One kiss of my lips ye ne'er shall get, love,
For you have caused me sore to sigh,
Nor will I grant you that sweet request, love,
That oftentimes you did me deny.

If I would grant you that sweet request, love,
My heart on you I might then bestow,
But as good a lover as you may come, love,
So I'll not hinder you for to go.

For I have stepped the steps of love, dear,
And I have stepped a step too low;
Was it to be done that I have done,
It would never be done by me, I know.

It's ower the moss, love, you need'na cross, love,
And ower the moor ye needna ride,
For I have gottn a new sweetheart, love,
And you may go get yourself a bride.

For love dies come and love does go, love,
Like a little small bird unto its nest.
Was I to tell you, love all I know, love,
They're far away that I love best.

It's had I known the first time I kissed you
That women's hearts were so ill to win,
I would have locked mine all in a chest, love,
And screwed, screwed it tight with a silver pin.

Oh, I wish my father had never whistled,
And I wish my mother had never sung,
And I wish the cradles had never rock-ed
When I was a boy and so very young.

Verse 8, chest screwed tight with a silver pin, reminds of "locked my heart in a box of gold and tied it up with silver twine" in the version of "Love is Pleasin' posted by Joe.
Source: Maud Houston. With music and extended comments, first printed 1924 (stanza 9 did not appear in the paper), pp. 392-393, "Sam Henry's Songs of the People," Univ. Georgia Press, 1990.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love is pleasing
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 05:31 PM

Jean Ritchie, the additional information very welcome! And thanks for Wintergrace.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love is pleasing
From: Fifteen Iguana
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 09:15 PM

Q, you are my new hero or heroine, as the case may be. The Lomax book I can get my hands on.

Mucho thanks! And thanks to everyone else who contributed.

Rob Lopresti
(Fifteen Iguana)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love is pleasing
From: GUEST,robinia
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 03:44 AM

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned "Come all you fair and tender ladies," which as I recall it contains the "killing crime" verse cited by Rob and has a very different tune from any of the "Love is pleasing and love is teasing" songs. For that matter, I'm not convinced that they're all the "same song" -- I know that RISE UP SINGING mushes them all together under "The Water is Wide" but I associate different melodies for the different "variants," including the single-verse variant sung by Lizzie Higgins (Jeanie Robertson's daughter):
   "Love it is teasing, and love is enticing;
    O, love come beside me and keep me warm;
    But when it grows older, love it grows colder,
    And it just fades away like the dew on the rose."
It's frustrating that she only sang the one verse to a melody that I wish I could reproduce here; it's eerily different, and if anyone know any other verses she sang (or could have sung) to it, I'd love to hear them.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love Is Pleasing
From: BB
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 06:15 PM

Been away, so haven't replied to this earlier, but I have a version of 'Come all you fair and tender ladies' with that verse in.

'If I had known before I courted,
I never would have courted none;
I'd have locked my heart in a box of golden,
And fastened it up with a silver pin.'

I've not come across the 'killing crime' phrase before, though.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love Is Pleasing
From: Joybell
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 11:07 PM

There may be hundreds of songs that connect with this one. It's such a popular idea with popular and universal themes within it. Take a look at songs like "Died for Love", or "The Butcher's Boy" and chase the links from there, for example. You can be lost for years among these interconnecting songs.
"For love it is a killing thing. Have you not felt the pain?" appears a time or two. I sing it in a version of "Mary Ann" that was collected in Canada and which was sung around the coffee houses in the 60s.
I doubt if anyone who has really researched this group of songs would be confident enough to state which ones belong where. You could maybe look at Jamie Douglas and it's introduction in the Child collection as a possible starting point. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love Is Pleasing
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 11:50 PM

Joyce sites somewhere the same song with the verse:

'Tis youth and folly
That make men marry
So here my love, I'll no more stay;
What can't be cured sure
Must be inDUred sure,
So I'll go to Amerikay


..and goes on from there with love being brawny and bony, like whiskey bright when first 'tis new, etc.

A

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love Is Pleasing
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Dec 04 - 12:49 AM

I don't think any of us agree completely with large groupings of songs. They are a convenience of a sort when one tries to make comparisons but connections are sometimes nebulous or forced.

Looked at the Trad Ballad Index, and was amused with the comment following Lomax FSNA 99- "Fair and Tender Ladies" (1 text, one tune); see also 70, "Love is Pleasin'," (1 text 1 tune, of four verses, one of which goes here, one belongs with "Waly, Waly" and the fourth could be from several sources." (and one not worth mentioning??)

BB, Jean Ritchie also has the 'box' 'pin' verse in her "Fair and Tender Ladies." It is impossible to say with which song the verse was first associated. Not that it really matters. The cliché- Like Topsy, they just growed (and borrowed).

Looked at a lot of versions and found the 'killing crime' only in Lomax. Guest Rob, where did you find it?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love Is Pleasing
From: Joybell
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 07:14 PM

"Love it is a Killing Thing" is given as the title of what look like variants of this song on several websites. Some seem to be an amalgamation of the song usually known as "Blackwater Side" and "Love is Teasing" along with several "floater" verses.
Could it be that "killing crime" is a coruption?