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Lyr Req: This phrase has been... (Fan-a-Winnow)

In Mudcat MIDIs:
Fan-a-winnow


20 Nov 98 - 08:59 AM
Jon Bartlett 21 Nov 98 - 02:58 AM
Philippa 21 Nov 98 - 06:59 AM
Barbara 21 Nov 98 - 08:49 AM
Philippa 21 Nov 98 - 12:06 PM
Philippa 26 Nov 98 - 06:02 PM
Martin Ryan. 26 Nov 98 - 06:57 PM
Peter T. 27 Nov 98 - 08:44 AM
Philippa 16 Jan 99 - 10:39 AM
Sandy Paton 16 Jan 99 - 02:06 PM
John Moulden 17 Jan 99 - 11:21 AM
Alice 17 Jan 99 - 12:20 PM
Alice 17 Jan 99 - 12:34 PM
Roddy 17 Jan 99 - 07:31 PM
Philippa 24 Jan 99 - 07:23 AM
Darwin 24 Jan 99 - 11:39 AM
alison 06 Feb 99 - 02:35 AM
Nancy (inactive) 07 Feb 99 - 07:05 PM
katlaughing 07 Feb 99 - 08:58 PM
Barbara 07 Feb 99 - 09:00 PM
katlaughing 07 Feb 99 - 09:00 PM
katlaughing 08 Feb 99 - 11:27 AM
Nancy (inactive) 08 Feb 99 - 10:41 PM
catspaw49 08 Feb 99 - 11:25 PM
Philippa 09 Feb 99 - 11:18 AM
GUEST,pankel 18 Aug 01 - 10:01 PM
Mr Red 19 Aug 01 - 06:15 PM
GUEST,rlyon8052CHARTER.NET 17 Jan 04 - 01:08 PM
rangeroger 17 Jan 04 - 01:32 PM
GUEST,JTT 17 Jan 04 - 05:01 PM
Emma B 17 Jan 04 - 08:19 PM
Joybell 17 Jan 04 - 08:27 PM
Dave'sWife 13 Mar 05 - 12:47 AM
GUEST,Anne Croucher 13 Mar 05 - 09:46 PM
GUEST 14 Sep 05 - 04:32 PM
MartinRyan 14 Sep 05 - 05:06 PM
GUEST 29 Jan 06 - 09:30 PM
GUEST,Bob Coltman 01 Feb 06 - 10:01 AM
Barbara 01 Feb 06 - 06:18 PM
GUEST,DannyC 02 Feb 06 - 04:08 PM
dick greenhaus 02 Feb 06 - 04:19 PM
GUEST,Guest, Big Tim 03 Feb 06 - 05:00 AM
GUEST,brianbeag 26 May 06 - 07:01 PM
Big Tim 27 May 06 - 05:22 AM
GUEST,Guest 04 Sep 07 - 10:19 AM
Celtaddict 04 Sep 07 - 10:37 AM
Celtaddict 04 Sep 07 - 05:56 PM
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GUEST,Lauren 13 Feb 10 - 11:41 PM
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Subject: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From:
Date: 20 Nov 98 - 08:59 AM

It is from a song that I heard many years ago but I cannot remember more than this and it continues to haunt me. It goes something like

"...the bontiro, the bontiro, the lovely blue-eyed bontiro..."

As I remember it was from a Scotch or Irish song related to the sea. There was an ambiguity between a ship and a girl which that word bontiro (however it may be properly spelled) referred to. In any case I would really like to learn more about the song that it comes from if for no other reason than to resolve this thing that floats through my head. Thanks for any help.

Harvey Fishman (fishman@panix.com)


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 21 Nov 98 - 02:58 AM

As I understand it, the bontiro is a subspecies of mudcat, found mostly in the waters of the Isle of Mann. :> jon the offsider


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Philippa
Date: 21 Nov 98 - 06:59 AM

B for Barney, R for Ross
All for my love Barney Ross
All the world will never never know
The love I had for my ban- tier (spelling?pronounced tire) o

My ban-tier o, my ban-tier o
the love I have for my ban-tire o

--that's the way I remember it. A song from linen mills is my guess; Barney must have tied up strings on the looms or something like that. That might help someone else to give you the information or you might look up a book on a relevant topic (I think there's one title "Tie Up Your Ends" - ?)

I'll add another note when I remember the name of a man I heard singing this song (on a recording), He's still in Belfast and doing TV and film production, I believe his company is called "Flying Fox"


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Barbara
Date: 21 Nov 98 - 08:49 AM

'Tie up your ends' is "Doffin' Mistress" and the Silly Sisters sang it. It's in the database. I have heard the other song sung, and my memory agrees with Phillipa. I do remember wondering if he was 'the ban-tyer rogue', except the young woman speaks so fondly of him .
Blessings,
Barbara


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Philippa
Date: 21 Nov 98 - 12:06 PM

I just remembered the name of the singer I was thinking of, Davy Hammond. Other Belfast area musicians who would be knowledgeable about mill songs include Maurice Leyden and Kathleen McPeake (of the McPeake family)

Regarding the line "Tie up your ends", yes it is in the song about the Doffing Mistress, but I think it's also been used for the title of a book about the mill lasses. They had a lot of songs. "The Doffing Mistress" used to be sung when the Mistress was leaving the factory and her underworkers would sing "Tie up our ends we will surely do for [retiring Mistress] but not for you".

Okay, I'm taking this thread off on another tangent now, but it IS interesting: Ann Brolly of Coalisland, Co Tyrone, N Ireland (now living in Claudy, Co Derry) has a version called The Doffing Master: "Oh, Tommy Rogers, are you going away/Is it tomorrow or is it today/You've left us here with a broken heart/For there's no one else that will take our part." Ann heard that Tommy Rogers was a Doffing Master in Coalisland and that he was sacked because he drank to much. But Tommy had good raport with his workers and they went on strike - practically unheard of in those days, especially for women - esp. in Ireland - to demans his reinstatement.

I'd love to know more about Tommy Rogers. But if only we knew half as much about "Barney Ross"!


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Philippa
Date: 26 Nov 98 - 06:02 PM

I haven't got any more info in the songs or about linen mills yet, but the chorus just happened into my head

fan a winnow, winnow, winnow
fan a winnow-oh,oh
fan a winnow, ee-eye-oh,
she's away with Barney the ban-tier-o
the ban-tier-o, the ban-tier-o,
she's away with Barney the ban-tier-o


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Martin Ryan.
Date: 26 Nov 98 - 06:57 PM

Davy Hammond is the man alright! His "I am the wee falorie man" album was recently re-released on CD and includes " 'B' is for Barney" of which he says:

"A band-tier was the man who bundled the lengths of thread as they came from the spinning frames"

Regards


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Peter T.
Date: 27 Nov 98 - 08:44 AM

A bandtier sounds like a good label for this fine group of mudcatteers. What a pleasure to read.

Yours, Peter T.


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Subject: Lyr Add: FAN-A-WINNOW
From: Philippa
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 10:39 AM

I had the wrong title for Betty Messenger's book. It's "Picking up the Linen Threads: a study in industrial folklore" published in 1978, Austin, Texas, by U of Texas Press - and in 1980 by Blackstaff Press, Belfast, N Ireland.

Lyrics for "Fan-a-Winnow" are included in Carmel O'Boyle. "Cut the Loaf: The Irish Children's Songbook", Cork, Ireland:MercierPress, 1986.


Fan-a-winnow, winnow, winnow
Fan-a-winnow daisy,
Fan-a-winnow, E-i-o,
She's away with Barney the band-tier oh,
She's away with Barney the band-tier oh.


A for apple, P for pear
D for dolling on the stair,
All the world will never, never know
The love I had for my lady oh,
My lovely blue-eyed lady oh.


B for Barney, C for cross,
Oh, how I love Barney Ross,
All the world will never, never know
The love I have for my Barney oh,
My lovely blue-eyed Barney oh.


Fan-a-winnow, winnow, winnow
Fan-a-winnow daisy,
Fan-a-winnow, E-i-o,
She's away with Barney the band-tier oh,
She's away with Barney the band-tier oh.

- I hope to be able to provide the ABC in due course - Philippa


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 02:06 PM

Caroline and I learned the song, many years ago, from Hammond's recording which, if I rememebr rightly, was on Tradition Records. At first, we were enchanted by the term in question. Sounded like a cross between a banshee and a vampire! Learned soon enough that it referred to the band-tier in the mill, thus avoiding embarrassment in the presence of more knowledgeable folk. 'Tis a lovely song, indeed, that we still enjoy singing.

It's good to see all those early recordings being re-released as CDs. Give 'em all new life!

Sandy


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: John Moulden
Date: 17 Jan 99 - 11:21 AM

The band-tier's principal task was to replace the loops of thread which, in a spinning machine, transmitted power from a central wheel to the individual spindles upon which were placed the spools or bobbins which when full the doffers "doffed" (removed and put on new ones, and rethreaded the woven linen thread on the new bobbin).

Philippa referred to the book "Picking up the Linen Threads" which is the source of most of the above.

John


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jan 99 - 12:20 PM

On another thread called Loving Hannah, it was Martin Ryan (thanks, Martin) who identified Davy Hammond for me as the singer on a cassette of "Irish Folk Songs". On the cassette, he starts with "B"is for Barney and then ends on side two with "Fan-a-Winnow", inserting some of the B is for Barney lyrics into Fan-a-Winnow.
Here is a cut and paste from that thread:

Steve, I found the recording of the Irish Girl, with the slow sad tune similar to Circle be Unbroken. I don't know if you will be able to find this tape... but it's a good one. It is of anonymous singers, and the song is sung by an old Irishman. It is called simply, "Irish Folk Songs" and was in the bargain rack for about $6.US. It is made in Candada, the cassette has written on it, Excelsior International, Distributed by the Madacy Music Group, Inc, P.O. Box 1445, St-Laurent Quebec, Canada H4L 4Z1.

Songs listed are,
B is for Barney,
All Around the Loney-O,
Green Gravel,
The Doffin Mistress,
The Maid of Ballydoo,
I Know My Love, vThe Dark Eyed Gypsy,
Will Ye Go Lassie Go,
Tis Pretty to be In Ballinderry,
Cruise of the Calabar,
As I Roved Out,
The Wee Falorie Man,
Rockin the Cradle,
I'll Tell My Ma,
I Wish I Was A Maid Again,
The Gallant Forty-Twa,
Early Early All In The Spring,
When I Was Single,
The Irish Girl
Fan-A-Winnow,

And then children and a woman singing
Three Grey Geese (and other children's tunes),
See Saw (and other children's tunes),
and Sally Go Round the Moon (and other children's tunes).

Subject: RE: Loving Hannah
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 12-Nov-98 - 04:43 PM

Alice

I thought that track listing sounded familiar! I have a Tradition CD reissue ("I am the Wee Falorie Man") of an album by Davy Hammond, of Northern Ireland, originally issued in 1959. It's identical! Only himself and and guitar though.Could it be him?


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jan 99 - 12:34 PM

In the memoirs of my great aunt Alice Flynn Tucker, she writes about my great grandmother: "My mother's name was Bridget Keaveny [Flynn]. She was educated in a girls' school in Cornocloy where manners, carriage, and all that goes to make a lady were taught. Mother's father was a weaver, so her work was to thread the shuttles for him. Her father, Thomas Keaveny, came from Glen Carr as an orphan when twelve years of age to Glenfarne to work for a weaver, Mathew Tomson, and learned the trade from him. He used to make linsey-woolsey suits for men and linen table cloths and sheets. The tablecloths had a figure woven into them."
The small town trade of a weaver was different than the large factory weaving in a city, but just the bits and pieces I have learned make me curious to know more about the weaver's life.
Thanks for the definitions. It makes Fan-a-Winnow a more meaningful song to me now.

alice in montana


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Roddy
Date: 17 Jan 99 - 07:31 PM

Memories, memories, A lot of the women in my mother's family worked in the linen mills - including herself - though she was always at pains to emphasise that she was never a "doffer". This was the most menial and unskilled work in the mill. At the other end of the status ladder came the weaver the acme of the linen-worker's craft. Thus the old mill song of vulgar insult which claims that the doffer will "never get a man" while the weaver "will always get a man". The woman in charge of the doffers was the Doffing Mistress. The misspelling "doffin" has somehow become accepted as something almost sacrosanct. Why perpetuate error ? Roddy


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Philippa
Date: 24 Jan 99 - 07:23 AM

John Moulden sent me another verse, which is printed in Betty Messenger. "Picking Up the Linen Threads":

There were three doffers in a room, O but the were posies, The sang so sweet, so very, very sweet, To charm the heart of the band-tier O.


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Darwin
Date: 24 Jan 99 - 11:39 AM

My favorite weaving song was recorded by 'Darby and Tarlton' concerning mill work on the Appalachia piedmont. Some interesting references are:

"...rest from fillin' batteries"

"Very often well flag the fixer When his head are bendin' low You may think that he's a-loafin' When he's earning all he knows Very often we'll have a breakout It will surely make you sweat ....."

The song addresses the condition of working machine-like and feeling 'poorly' as all breaks down. There is a verse regarding advice to a prospective employee - don't do it.


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Subject: Tune Add: FAN-A-WINNOW
From: alison
Date: 06 Feb 99 - 02:35 AM

Hi,

Here is the tune, (Philippa the GIF was very difficult to read... so I hope the tune is OK...... ).

MIDI file: FANAWIN.MID

Timebase: 480

Name: FAN-A-WINNOW
TimeSig: 4/4 24 8
Key: D
Tempo: 100 (600000 microsec/crotchet)
Start
0000 1 62 042 0478 0 62 042 0002 1 66 032 0238 0 66 032 0002 1 69 031 0238 0 69 031 0002 1 69 042 0478 0 69 042 0002 1 69 038 0478 0 69 038 0002 1 69 038 0478 0 69 038 0002 1 69 038 0478 0 69 038 0002 1 69 040 0238 0 69 040 0002 1 71 041 0718 0 71 041 0002 1 62 038 0238 0 62 038 0002 1 64 043 0238 0 64 043 0002 1 66 035 0238 0 66 035 0002 1 67 032 0238 0 67 032 0002 1 69 028 0718 0 69 028 0002 1 71 044 0238 0 71 044 0002 1 64 042 0958 0 64 042 0002 1 66 036 0958 0 66 036 0002 1 62 042 0238 0 62 042 0002 1 64 031 0238 0 64 031 0002 1 66 032 0238 0 66 032 0002 1 67 029 0238 0 67 029 0002 1 69 033 0478 0 69 033 0002 1 69 038 0478 0 69 038 0002 1 74 043 0478 0 74 043 0002 1 74 028 0238 0 74 028 0002 1 71 027 0238 0 71 027 0002 1 69 043 0238 0 69 043 0002 1 66 013 0478 0 66 013 0002 1 67 019 0238 0 67 019 0002 1 69 031 0478 0 69 031 0002 1 69 042 0478 0 69 042 0002 1 71 028 0478 0 71 028 0002 1 69 036 0238 0 69 036 0002 1 67 029 0238 0 67 029 0002 1 64 037 0478 0 64 037 0002 1 62 042 0478 0 62 042 0002 1 62 038 0718 0 62 038 0002 1 69 052 0238 0 69 052 0002 1 74 044 0478 0 74 044 0002 1 69 042 0238 0 69 042 0002 1 71 032 0238 0 71 032 0002 1 71 040 0238 0 71 040 0002 1 69 029 0478 0 69 029 0002 1 69 043 0238 0 69 043 0002 1 72 034 0478 0 72 034 0002 1 69 033 0478 0 69 033 0002 1 71 044 0238 0 71 044 0002 1 69 048 0478 0 69 048 0002 1 67 033 0238 0 67 033 0002 1 66 029 0478 0 66 029 0002 1 62 032 0478 0 62 032 0002 1 64 035 0478 0 64 035 0002 1 69 041 0238 0 69 041 0002 1 67 038 0238 0 67 038 0002 1 64 036 0478 0 64 036 0002 1 62 041 0478 0 62 041 0002 1 62 033 0958 0 62 033 0002 1 62 034 0718 0 62 034 0002 1 64 029 0238 0 64 029 0002 1 66 040 0478 0 66 040 0002 1 67 038 0478 0 67 038 0002 1 69 038 0478 0 69 038 0002 1 74 022 0238 0 74 022 0002 1 71 029 0238 0 71 029 0002 1 69 032 0958 0 69 032 0002 1 62 027 0718 0 62 027 0002 1 64 032 0238 0 64 032 0002 1 66 028 0478 0 66 028 0002 1 69 050 0478 0 69 050 0002 1 67 036 0478 0 67 036 0002 1 66 032 0478 0 66 032 0002 1 64 034 0958 0 64 034 0002 1 62 053 0718 0 62 053 0002 1 64 034 0238 0 64 034 0002 1 66 047 0718 0 66 047 0002 1 67 036 0238 0 67 036 0002 1 69 049 0238 0 69 049 0002 1 71 030 0238 0 71 030 0002 1 72 036 0238 0 72 036 0002 1 71 041 0238 0 71 041 0002 1 69 038 0718 0 69 038 0002 1 67 042 0238 0 67 042 0002 1 66 037 0478 0 66 037 0002 1 62 032 0478 0 62 032 0002 1 64 036 0478 0 64 036 0002 1 69 037 0238 0 69 037 0002 1 67 042 0238 0 67 042 0002 1 64 041 0478 0 64 041 0002 1 62 026 0478 0 62 026 0002 1 62 036 0718 0 62 036 0002 1 69 040 0238 0 69 040 0002 1 74 042 0478 0 74 042 0002 1 69 042 0238 0 69 042 0002 1 71 029 0238 0 71 029 0002 1 73 038 0238 0 73 038 0002 1 69 048 0478 0 69 048 0002 1 69 042 0238 0 69 042 0002 1 74 036 0478 0 74 036 0002 1 69 042 0478 0 69 042 0002 1 71 035 0238 0 71 035 0002 1 69 038 0478 0 69 038 0002 1 66 036 0238 0 66 036 0002 1 66 036 0478 0 66 036 0002 1 62 029 0478 0 62 029 0002 1 64 032 0478 0 64 032 0002 1 69 045 0238 0 69 045 0002 1 67 034 0238 0 67 034 0002 1 64 032 0238 0 64 032 0002 1 64 038 0718 0 64 038 0002 1 62 040 0958 0 62 040
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:Fan-a-winnow
M:4/4
Q:1/4=100
K:D
D2FAA2A2|A2A2AB3|DEFGA3B|E4F4|DEFGA2A2|d2dBAF2G|
A2A2B2AG|E2D2D3A|d2ABBA2A|=c2A2BA2G|F2D2E2AG|
E2D2D4|D3EF2G2|A2dBA4|D3EF2A2|G2F2E4|D3EF3G|
AB=cBA3G|F2D2E2AG|E2D2D3A|d2ABcA2A|d2A2BA2F|
F2D2E2AG|EE3D4||

Slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Nancy (inactive)
Date: 07 Feb 99 - 07:05 PM

There is this song, not really folk or blues as far as I know, that I can remember only two lines of the chorus. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

What I remember...

Ooo-eee, ride me high
Tomorrow's the day my bride's gonna come.
Oh no, we gonna fly,
Down in the easy chair.

thank!
You ain't Going Nowhere in the Digital Tradition.


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Feb 99 - 08:58 PM

Wasn't that done by Pure Prairie League? It was late sixties/early seventies and was on the charts, I'm sure. I know the song, just can't remember the name; but I've got the tune down great!

Somebody on here will know it!

Kat


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Barbara
Date: 07 Feb 99 - 09:00 PM

Are you kidding, kat? It's Bob Dylan.


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Feb 99 - 09:00 PM

Nancy,

I should've checked the DT before I wrote. If you type in "easy chair", one of the ones that comes up is, "You Ain't Goin' Nowhere" by Bob Dylan, which is the song you are looking for.

Have fun,

kat


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Feb 99 - 11:27 AM

Barbara,

I was just taking a "stab in the dark", no kidding!

Kat


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Nancy (inactive)
Date: 08 Feb 99 - 10:41 PM

"You Ain't Going Nowhere" - you know, now that you mention it, I knew it was a Bob Dylan song, but somehow became convinced that I was wrong. Okay, that's the very next song that I'm gonna learn.

Thank you!


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Feb 99 - 11:25 PM

But it did get my wife Karen goin' somewhere...after several futile attempts, that song got her to try guitar "one more time"...and this time she's doing much better! And she learned that first. Thank you Bob.

catspaw


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Subject: Tune Add: FAN-A-WINNOW
From: Philippa
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 11:18 AM

Threads do diverge in strange directions and this one has the sort of general title that's asking for multiple queries, especially when people are having technical difficulties starting new threads. From 20 Nov '98 through 6 Feb. '99, this thread had 17 entries all concerning weaving songs, connected to the original enquiry about "the lovely blue-eyed bontiro". So shift off that easy chair ye Dylanites as the thread returns to the straight and narrow.
I know of two songbooks which include this song. Both are published by Mercier Press of Cork:
Carmel OBoyle. "Cut the Loaf: The Irish Children's Songbook", 1986
David Hammond. "Songs of Belfast" John Moulden describes this book as "slim but interesting with children's songs, mill songs general songs and some politics"
Both books are available from John Moulden at Ulstersongs (N Ireland) You'll also find a link at the Mudcat links page.
I e-mailed Alison a GIF of the page from Hammond's book. Alison graciously provided a MIDI and ABC, but she said the GIF image wasn't very clear and some notes might wrong. I compared Alison's ABC with Hammond's notation and came up with the ABC below. I'm not experienced at ABCs, so may yet have to add another corrective message! The notation given in Carmel O'Boyle's book is slightly different again.
By the way, Harvey Fishman never wrote again after his initial enquiry. Nor did he acknowledge my e-mail to him. Has anyone else heard from Harvey whetherFan-a-Winnow is the same song he remembers? It does seem probable.

X:1
T:Fan-a-winnow
M:4/4
Q:1/8=100
K:D
D2FAA2A2|A2A2AB3|DEFGA2B2|E4F4|DEFGA2A2|d2dBA2FG|
A2A2B2AG|E2D2D3A|d2ABBA2A|d2A2BA2G|F2D2E2AG|
E2D2D4|D3EF2G2|A2dBA4|D3EF2A2|G2F2E4|D3EF3G|
AB=cBA3G|F2D2E2AG|E2D2D3A|d2ABBA2A|d2A2BA2G|
F2D2E2AG|EE3D4||


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: GUEST,pankel
Date: 18 Aug 01 - 10:01 PM

The line is from a song done by Joan Baez-I sing it all the time,even though the words are nonsense.I don't remember which album it's on,but it's a collection of her songs out 4 or 5 years ago.Hope this helps.


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 06:15 PM

Phillipa
Pete Coe tells the story of an old school singer who he reckons wrote the "Doffing Mistress". It may have borrowed heavily from phrases familiar in the trade &/or similar songs. He is quite sure on the contemporary nature of it though.


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: GUEST,rlyon8052CHARTER.NET
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 01:08 PM

What is the origin of "knit pickers".


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: rangeroger
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 01:32 PM

Guest above. Nits are the eggs of lice. When monkeys or apes are grooming one another,they are ridding each other of body insects such as fleas and lice and their eggs. Thus nit-picking. They also are removing flakes of salt and dead skin.

Obviously a human nit-picker is one who indulges in criticizing the most trivial,miniscule and least important of another's mistakes. Which has nothing to do with weaving. Maybe.

rr


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 05:01 PM

Link to lyrics of that oo-ee one:

http://no-direction-home.at/goinnowh.htm


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Emma B
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 08:19 PM

You might easy know a doffer
When she comes into town
With her long yellow hair
And her PICKERS hanging down
With her rubber tied before her
And her scraper in her hand
You might easy know a doffer
For she'll always get a man.

Obviously looking for nit wits!


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Joybell
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 08:27 PM

I first heard "B for Barney" sung by The Clancy Brothers, in the 60s, but I heard the last line as "....the love I have for my Barney-O". I must listen again more carefully. What an interesting thread this is. Joy


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 12:47 AM

Speaking of weird phrases in songs..and Pure Praire League..have any of you ever made ANY sense out that song of theirs which was a B-side but which you can find on their Greatest Hits compilation which is called:

She Darked The Sun

???

The final line of the chorus seems to be:

And with the length of her mind,
She darked the Sun.

What's up with THAT?? I have never seen all the lyrics and it's been years since I've heard it. I know I have the CD somehwere. It seems to be a song about a young guy "down in New Orleans" being taken severe advanatge of by an older woman with some kind of evil intent. It's a catchy tune and you find yourself singing along with it until you stop and say..."what in heck is trying to say here? She darked the SUN..with the LENGTH OF HER MIND???"

Freaky.


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Subject: RE: This phrase has been bothering me for years..
From: GUEST,Anne Croucher
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 09:46 PM

A knit picker is a tiny latchhook used to repair or improve fabrics, usually there was a length of cord, on one end was a small loop with a fine pin hanging with the head through a hole in the loop(so it could be replaced if it should get bent or broken)

On the other end of the cord was the latch hook, and both pin and hook fitted into a holder. The holder had a ring for a chain to secure it, through which the cord also passed so the tools could not be left behind.

By using these tools faults in the weaving were minimised, so increasing its value, but it was painstaking work.

I just recently worked on a length of seersucker which had several bad faults where long loops of the weft had been woven in. By using a latch hook from my knitting machine and a quilting pin I managed to draw out the excess and then work it along the weft to the selvage, and then close the gap in the weft with the pin.

If left unheld weaving yarn will spiral on itself so it is essential that it is held under light tension all the time.

I sing a song with the verse

My bobbins all out, my ends all down
The duffers in the alley and I can't get round
CHORUS
Hard times at the mill, Ma love
Hard times at the mill.

Which I should probably ammend to 'doffer'? Or as duffer is someone who is a rather dim no hoper is it actually the same word?

I assume it is the same root as to doff one's cap - the doffer's task is removing the full bobbins of spun thread and replacing them with empty ones?

Anne


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This phrase has been... (Fan-a-Winnow)
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 04:32 PM

The phrase is from "The Doffer's Song", the "buntiro" is Gaelic, this spelling is phoenetic. There are CDs of Irish music available with this song on them.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This phrase has been... (Fan-a-Winnow)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 05:06 PM

GUEST
Not so, I'm afraid. Read the earlier entries.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This phrase has been... (Fan-a-Winnow)
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 09:30 PM

Refresh


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This phrase has been... (Fan-a-Winnow
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 10:01 AM

Yes, Philippa, ABC it for us, please ... great song! Bob


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This phrase has been... (Fan-a-Winnow)
From: Barbara
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 06:18 PM

Bob, if you go up to the top of this thread and click on the MIDI link, your computer will (probably) play the tune that Philippa transcribed.
It's a little different than the tune I learned from Susan Frank, who learned it from Sandy and Caroline, who learned it from David Hammond's recording, as it says above.

Blessings,
Barbara,
and is there a way to get a copy in any form of Son of Child?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This phrase has been... (Fan-a-Winnow)
From: GUEST,DannyC
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 04:08 PM

I love the sigh that David Hammond breathes into his recorded version of this song. I try to find a hint of it in my own efforts.

To add to the talk of trades (sorry for the diversion):
My own ancestors were careful to illustrate their rise in the Glasgow textile factory world by listing their exact rank. So Charles McGinn clearly identified himself as a Hacklermaker Journeyman (Bachelor) while his father, Michael, was denoted as a Flax Hackler. Likewise, his wife Mary listed herself as Flax Millikiner (Spinster) while her daugher (my grandmother) was listed (once reaching the Woonsocket, RI mills) as merely - "Mill Hand".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This phrase has been... (Fan-a-Winnow
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 04:19 PM

Barbara:
You can get Son of Child (just re-released on CD), from (who else?) CAMSCO Music. Call me at 800/548-FOLK (3655)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This phrase has been... (Fan-a-Winnow)
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 05:00 AM

"Winnow" as defined in Webster's Dictionary - "to separate and drive of as chaff by subjection to wind or a current of air [fan]". In the 1960s, there was a Belfast folk group called The Winnowers, which included Tom Hickland, later of Five Hand Reel, with Dick Gaughan, Bobby Eaglesham, et al.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Fan-a-Winnow
From: GUEST,brianbeag
Date: 26 May 06 - 07:01 PM

You can see The Winnowers (along with several other re-incarnations from the sixties)in a Reunion gig at Belfast's Waterfront Hall on Saturday June 3


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Fan-a-Winnow
From: Big Tim
Date: 27 May 06 - 05:22 AM

Should be a great night.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This phrase has been... (Fan-a-Winnow)
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 04 Sep 07 - 10:19 AM

just trying to find out about the word "falorie" as sung by Dave Hammond? Is there anyone can tell me what a "falorie" is? I have never come across the phrase and am assuming it must be from the north rather than the south of Ireland. If anyone can help I would be most grateful


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This phrase has been... (Fan-a-Winnow
From: Celtaddict
Date: 04 Sep 07 - 10:37 AM

Well, we have covered band-tiers and mentioned fan-a-winnow, and I know what 'winnow' means, as above. Is 'fan-a-winnow' just a bit of a work chant while one is fanning, to winnow? Is it used in weaving, for example to fan away the stray fibers?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This phrase has been... (Fan-a-Winnow
From: Celtaddict
Date: 04 Sep 07 - 05:56 PM

Guest of 10:19, welcome; why don't you take a name so we know you again? Membership is free and makes it easier to follow up on this sort of question.
Anyway, the name 'Falorie' occurs occasionally in the UK, primarily around Gloucestershire. It is cited in the 1891 census here:
Falorie in Gloucester

http://www.ancestry.com/learn/facts/Fact.aspx?fid=6&yr=1891&ln=Falorie (cut and paste if the blicky doesn't work)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This phrase has been... (Fan-a-Winnow
From: Celtaddict
Date: 04 Sep 07 - 06:01 PM

If you Google 'falorie' you get 2,880 hits, I checked the first 80. Three involve German kennels (apparently a famous stud hound/line named Falorie), there is this one (above), and every other one is a reference to the song 'I Am a Wee Falorie Man." One site in the first eighty is in Irish.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This phrase has been... (Fan-a-Winnow)
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 10:58 PM

Falorie reminds me of a man's name which is spelled various odd ways but is pronounced with an unaspirated F (sounds a bit like a v) spelled in English most likely as - Falorah with a slight emphasis on the middle Syllable. I think it's a gaelicized version of Vallory. It's in my family but I have no clue how it's properly spelled. We called him "Val"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This phrase has been... (Fan-a-Winnow)
From: GUEST,Lauren
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 11:41 PM

The version of the song I know is called "The Doffer's Song" by Freeman on the When Irish Eyes are Smiling CD. However, I do not know what the lyrics are, though I believe some of you have the right oens


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