Tech: jitters when burning CD through USB

Subject: Tech: jitters when burning CD through USB
From: GUEST,Susan-Marie
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 11:58 AM

I recently entered the world of downloading music and burning it onto CDs, and am having some problems with "jitters" on playing the CDs on a CD player. I've read enough miscellaneous FAQs to think I've figured out the problem, but I want someone with some real knowledge to tell me if this sounds reasonable:

I've been downloading the mp3s off the internet (Emusic) to a USB memory stick, and then burning them onto CDs from there using Roxie Easy CD Creator. It is always the same tracks that work or don't work, so at first I thought it was the mp3 files. However, they play fine from Winmedia, so the problem is happening during the CD burn. I thought maybe the mp3 file could be "slightly" corrupt - play OK as an mp3 but not translate well during CD burn - but that sounded a little far-fetched. And then I read a brief reference to problems occurring when a file is transferred through a USB connection. SO now I'm thinking if I copy the mp3s onto my hard drive and burn from there, it should be OK. Is that right? Or will there be problems even copying from the USB to the hard drive?

I'm throwing away a lot of CDs while trying to figure this out so before I try again I'd appreciate someone telling me if I'm on the right track. Thanks!

Subject: RE: Tech: jitters when burning CD through USB
From: 12string growler
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 12:09 PM

I'm no expert, but I think you are on the right lines. Transfer rates are probably at the root of the problem. Is your memory stick USB 1.1 or USB 2 ? USB 1.1 runs at 12Meg/sec. USB 2 at around 400Meg/sec. Hard drives are even faster.
Treat yourself to a CD-RW, (re-writeable CD), and try from the hard drive, then if it spoils, it is not wasted, can be erased and used again.

Chris

Subject: RE: Tech: jitters when burning CD through USB
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 12:35 PM

Take the USB Mem Stick out of the equasion... DL the mp3s right to your hard-drive and burn them from there...

Subject: RE: Tech: jitters when burning CD through USB
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 01:57 PM

Most of the "compact memory" devices like memory stick have very slow readout when compared to hard drives. It's more likely the problem is with the memory stick's readout speed than with the USB connection. Older external CD burners have used USB 1 connections for some time, although the burn rates are limited to about 3x (maybe it was 7x?) with USB 1. USB 2 connections are good enough for at least 10x or so, if there's no other delay in getting stuff to the burner.

The "best" setup is to have the data, program, and adequate temp file space for a burn all on one hard drive, in the same partition, before you start the burn. There usually is little impact if you need to put the files in a different partition or on a different physical hard drive internal on your machine.

If you have been trying to burn from the memory stick because you don't have sufficient space on your hard drive, you could consider investing in an external hard drive, with a USB 2 or Firewire connection to the computer. Either should be fast enough to allow you to put your music files there for the burn at reasonable burn rates, although some burners claim extreme rates (32x & higher) that can sometimes outrun even one of these. If you choose a USB 2 external drive, you MUST verify that your machine has a USB 2 port. It probably does if it's a fairly recent model, but some older machines may still be USB 1.

The slow readout of the memory stick is sufficient to "explain" the effect you're seeing. Since it does connect to a USB port, if the port on your machine (or on your stick reader) happens to be an old USB 1 port, the problem is doubled. Slow read on top of slow transmit. Moving the files to a good hard drive before burning should fix it.

The only other "problem" I've seen that consistently causes the "same burn defect at the same place on the disk" comes from some AV programs that try to scan any file that's moved. The delay caused by the scan can "deplete" the burn buffer by a fairly fixed amount at each pass, resulting in a "defect" at about the same place in each burn when the buffer gets empty. The usual "defect" in this case though is just a "total failure" and a new coaster for the coffee table. One of the 3 machines I use fairly regularly to burn CDs occasionally has this problem, although all 3 use the same AV program.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: jitters when burning CD through USB
From: GUEST,Susan-Marie
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 02:30 PM

Chris, Clinton, John - You guys are awesome, thanks so much. I will try from the hard drive on Monday and let you all know how it works. The reason I was storing the mp3 files on my Jumpdrive 2.0 is because I'm using my work computer to burn the CDs (don't have the technology here at home) and didn't want to store the mp3s on my work computer. But I can store them there long enough to burn a CD.

Subject: RE: Tech: jitters when burning CD through USB
From: Susan-Marie
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 12:46 PM

Well, so much for our collective genius.

I moved all the mp3 files to my hard drive and burned another CD. Same problem. Certain tracks "skip", no matter what order I burn them in. I even tried burning at the lowest transfer rate (20X as opposed to 40X) with buffer underrun protection and using the "TEst and Record CD" setting. The same tracks still skip.

SO, I'm off to do more research on whether this can be fixed. ANy more ideas?

Subject: RE: Tech: jitters when burning CD through USB
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 12:50 PM

Try downloading the tracks again and see if you can get clean files to work from. Can you download to the hard drive instead of the memory stick? If there's a digital mistake in there, rerecording isn't going to make that mistake go away.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: jitters when burning CD through USB
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 12:57 PM

If specific MP3s always skip no matter how often you brun them, then it's VERY likely the MP3 itself is corrupt... Follow SRS's advice and try to dl them again, from a different source...

Good luck...

Subject: RE: Tech: jitters when burning CD through USB
From: Susan-Marie
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 12:42 PM

I did download again, from the same source (I'm using emusic.com's free trail). Same problem. I'm not desperate enough for these songs to start downloading mp3s from random sites, so I guess I'm going to call it quits. Clearly there is some factor in the CD to mp3 process that creates a file that can be played as a mp3 but will "skip" when burned onto a cd. I think it has something to do with the time tagging in the files, but that's the extent of my comprehension. All the songs with problems were from the same lable, so maybe the software they are using to "rip" the tracks is unreliable. I sent an e-mail to emusic.com about the damaged tracks and got one back saying they have so many tracks in their library that fixing a particular damaged track could take a long time - like forever. SO I won't be joining emusic as a paying subscriber!

Subject: RE: Tech: jitters when burning CD through USB
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 04:49 PM

Obviously what you're expected to do is:

1. play the mp3 and record an audio file on your tape deck.
2. input the audio file to your sound card and save it as .wav.
3. do your own conversion from .wav to .mp3
4. burn your own .mp3 of the song on your cd.

Of course you'll need good components and a clean setup to get back to mp3 without losing the sound quality, and by the time you get set up for all that, you could just learn to play the banjo and do your own performances of the song.

The banjo (or accordion, guitar, mandolin, flute, etc.) route may sound simpler, but you'll likely want to add a backup player or two; and dealing with the "available" musicians may require developing a whole new set of social skills. Mudcatters can likely offer a whole lot of advice on that too.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: jitters when burning CD through USB
From: PennyBlack
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 06:22 AM

If writing audio CD (WAVs) 20x is still too fast!

2x-4x will cause less problems and more compatability with ausio CD players.

If the MP3s play OK on the computer, transfering them to a CD as MP3s shouldn't cause skip.

To check for a transfer of MP3 problem (Burning) -

Play the MP3 on your computer - check it plays OK
Copy it to a CD - check if it plays OK

If it skips copy the CD MP3 back onto your computer and check it it plays OK on the computer.

If the copied back MP3 skips it's a burning problem.
If the copied back MP3 Plays OK its a CD Playback problem

Subject: RE: Tech: jitters when burning CD through USB
From: GUEST,SUsan-Marie
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 04:30 PM

John - Thanks, I'll get right on learning "The Wexford Carol" and "Santa Baby" on the banjo! ;-)

Penny - Thanks for the suggestions. The CD Burner I'm using doesn't go any slower than 20X, and when it gets a buffer underrun it automatically ejects the CD, so I don't know if slowing down the transfer rate will help. But I might try it with a different CD Burn program ANd thanks for the suggestion to try re-copying the file from the CD onto the hard drive. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Subject: RE: Tech: jitters when burning CD through USB
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Dec 04 - 12:37 AM

From JiK above

QUOTE
Of course you'll need good components and a clean setup to get back to mp3 without losing the sound quality, and by the time you get set up for all that, you could just learn to play the banjo and do your own performances of the song.

The banjo (or accordion, guitar, mandolin, flute, etc.) route may sound simpler, but you'll likely want to add a backup player or two; and dealing with the "available" musicians may require developing a whole new set of social skills. Mudcatters can likely offer a whole lot of advice on that too.
UNQUOTE

You know, John, I thought that was what the whole point of Music was... silly me, it's all to do with computers nowadays...

MicroSoft is now rumoured to making a version of Windows to run a vibrator (USB of course) ...