info pls: 60s music & spirituality

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 09:39 AM

And still no discussion of free love! What a sham!

Well, after 100 posts about 60s music and spirituality, with NO discussion of sex, I'm outta here.

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 11:46 PM

In the words from the Phil Ochs song,

"To a nightmare of knowledge he opens up the gate
And a blinding revelation is laid upon his plate
That beneath the greatest love is a hurricane of hate
And God help the critic of the dawn."

Suppose that in the 60s, a blinding relevation was laid upon our plate; I mean, there was a real spiritual outreach from the hidden depths of things? But being callow youths, we flailed around and more or less didn't get it? If we can look at it this way, maybe we can get a sense of a 60s spirituality free of self-congratulation and can account for what went wrong.

"Beneath the greatest love is a hurricane of hate"--what does that line mean to any of you, and do you have a sense of where it lead?

A writer in one of the old underground newspapers spoke of Orpheus, the musician--that Orpheus would come and go into and out of the world, and that was beyond our power to control, but that people who kept singing his melodies would be better prepared for his eventual return.

I wrote earlier mentioning the Pearls Before Swine song "Another Time"--Tom Rapp said in a much later interview that when he wrote it he was smoking nothing but Winstons; this is more evidence that there was some mystery behind the era. Drugs had something to do with it, but they can't explain it.

Let me try this blue clicky thing--I found a copy of the PBS song here FYI.

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 01:15 AM

That particular Phil Ochs song was about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy---and not much else. There are straight out, even if rather oblique, descriptions of the events there. There are poetic and thoughtful looks into those events too. For many it was the loss of innocense. Phil saw the big TV extravaganza coverage of the assassination became. He likened it to bullfighting. Think of all that amazing imagery in the context of that happening. It all fits like a glove.

"And do you have a picture of the pain?" -- Phil Ochs

The best recording of this song was by Jim Glover (Phil's roomy at Ohio State U.)and his then wife Jean. Phil's own record of it was way too bizarre, druggy and just about unlistenable.

Art

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: GUEST,Sidewinder
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 08:54 AM

Am I on my own when I put forth the view that "I feel good -I knew that I would" is far more poignant than any Phil Ochs "I've read Tennyson and Yeates, Byron and Shelley, and this is what I came up with" pretencious poppycock. Also, bear in my mind; you can dance to the James Brown track - what a winner!

Happy New Year.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: Belly
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 09:00 AM

Never seen you dance Do you do the james brown shuffle

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: Belly
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 09:06 AM

You people should all take a look at "The 60's was crap" Thread simular arguments but more people involved

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: GUEST,Sidewinder
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 09:28 AM

Belly - Does this mean I've found a like-minded person with an ear for the finer musical diversions such as Alison Krauss and John Prine and Tracy Chapman and The Manic Street Preachers? Or are you gonna try and convert me to Phil Ochs and Mr.Zimmerman? I do try and shuffle like James Brown but far less gracefully than the man himself.

Happy New Year

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: Peace
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 09:37 AM

So that makes me a very odd guy out. I like Ochs and Zimmerman and Krauss and Prine and so-so about Chapman.

And to quote anothe giant:

"Aretha Franklin is the Queen of Soul,
But who wanna be the Queen when you're the King of Rock n Roll,
And I'm the King."

Tell me who said THAT, muh man. Then I know you know what you know, you know?

Your cousin brucie.

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 09:58 AM

Thinking about it some more, the early 60's was also when I still attended church, and the old, sacred choral works done by the choir in many ways expressed my visions of the early-60's heaven. In later years, exposure to the sitar through Ravi Shankar and the Beatles made me aware of other colors in the universe, other views of the spirit. That, and being young and idealist and questing, perhaps contributed to the demise of my appreciation of church choirs and the early 60's religion in which I had been brought up.

Today, I again appreciate old-fashioned church music, although it now has a mountain flavor and a more primitive sound. But I also consider a performance of Handel's Messiah part of the Christmas celebration, part of my continuing spiritual exploration.

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: Azizi
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 11:55 AM

Well, I'm not sure which musical giant you are quoting, Brucie, but...

In a book I have on African American music, there's an album cover with a photo of Johnny Otis and the caption underneath says "The King of Rock n Roll."

And then there's {King} Soloman Burke.

Not to mention Nat King Cole...

And Muddy Waters asserts that "I the king" in a number of his songs-but-sorry, you did limit this to Rock n roll, didn't you?

And as for the "James Brown shuffle", in spite of what the Hardest Working Man in Show Business, Mr. Dynamite, Soul Brother# 1 has done before during or since, he will always be remembered by me with gratitude for his 1968 record- "Black Is Beautiful:Say It Loud: I'm Black and I'm Proud."

People needed to hear that message then and still need to hear it now.

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: Peace
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 11:59 AM

Hi, Azizi. Happy New Year to you, buddy. I'll message the answer to you now. Later.

Bruce

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: Azizi
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:12 PM

Thanks, Brucie. I'll check it out.

But is this a secret? Oh, I get it.

You're trying to see who can guess the right answer...

Okay, I'll play along.

But I need to correct that quote from Muddy Waters. He says
"I'm the King" not "I the King."

Back at ya!

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: Peace
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:21 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: GUEST,Sidewinder
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:36 PM

As a devotee and long time student of Rock 'N' Roll I have come across several cases in quotes were the demi god in question claimed to be "The King of Rock and Roll". Little Richard has asserted thus, and so has Jerry Lee Lewis and of course Solomon Burke still tours with this statement as a poster headline I believe.Chuck Berry laid a valid claim not so long back, and Bill Haley was the first person to be dubbed TKOR&R others included Gene Vincent and Johnny Otis and Fats Domino. I don't remember the Aretha Franklin quote but if the answers is not one of the afore mentioned then I would be surprised if James Brown or Elvis had been so churlish as to profer the quote.But I am sure you will put us out of our misery Bruce -you always do.

Best Wishes

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: Peace
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:42 PM

LOL. You named him. It's a quote from the first track on the first album he did after a ten-year break from music. Now I ask you, "WHAT was he doing during the ten years he was away from music?"

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: GUEST,Sidewinder
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 01:00 PM

Was he doing the good Lords' bidding by any chance?

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: Peace
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 01:06 PM

LOL. OK, you are IT. Indeed.

Regards back to ya.

Bruce

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 02:26 PM

Art, thank you for mentioning the Jim & Jean cover of "Crucifixion," which is an old favorite.

I'm aware of the song's overt reference to John Kennedy and his assasination but keep hearing more in it. Isn't that possible, in the way that the Book of Job is about more than Job, or Oedipus Rex is about more than Oedipus? We write tales of kings and heroes, but they resonate beyond their particular lives.

I dug this bit up from the Phil Ochs Web site:

Phil was also quoted (on 15-Dec-1965) as saying this about the song: "It's a song about Christ-killing, how all America and even, especially, New York loves to create heroes to moralize to them and then kill them violently, bloodily and dig the death so much, every detail of the death. It's a song about Jesus Christ. It's called The Crucifixion. It's a song about Kennedy. And maybe a song about Dylan." (In an interview a few months earlier, Phil expressed the belief that it would soon be too dangerous for Dylan to play out in public because he had become one of those heroes.)

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: Belly
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 04:26 PM

Sidewinder- or the shuffler!
Whilst doing the JB jig do you include assault and battery in the name of spirituality?

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: sixtieschick
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 04:47 PM

I adored Phil Ochs AND James Brown, "the hardest working man in show biz." Brown gave his own social commentary in "(Say it Loud) I'm Black and I'm Proud." That was a positive message for the times.

As for kings of rock, let's raise a glass of non-alcoholic something to the memory of the Lizard King.

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 12:19 PM

Loved him. Didn't have much of a dance style beyond stagger and collapse though, did he? Sort of slid down the mic stand...

Growing up, one of my good friend's dad was art director for Elektra Records, and he (LK) wanted to do the photo shoot for the "People Are Strange" album cover with about a million dogs. So his kids recruited all their friends with dogs (we had a beautiful collie at the time named King, in fact) to appear at a certain park on a certain day, at an appointed hour, and...

No LK. Talk about your dog days...

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 12:28 PM

In fact, I believe Patti Smith stole that slide down the mic stand style from LK, didn't she?

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: sixtieschick
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 04:00 PM

Guest, thanks for that story about the cover of "Strange Days." That's a great little piece of history.

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: sixtieschick
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 04:08 PM

PS To Guest: Is your friend's father still alive? If not, does your friend remember more details of the making of that album cover? I would love to write or talk with them about it. Please: Make my New Year's Day and join mudcat so you can send me a personal message if it is possible to contact either one. Thanks!

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 01:28 AM

Sorry to disappoint, but no, he isn't alive & I haven't spoken with that friend in over 20 years.

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: GUEST,The End
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 04:56 AM

I was reading the thing about Strange Days and it brought to mind the fact that I'd heard The Doors were touring again with Ian Astbury taking the Lizard Kings place.And I wondered if anybody out there in Mudcatland had seen them play anywhere? Or if anyone had seen the original band back when Mr Mojo was rising? I have all the albums and have read Noone Here Gets Out Alive several times as well as seen the Oliver Stone film so I guess I must be a bit of an afficianado. My preference is for LA Woman although the first album is a stunning debut.I'd be happy to hear from any like minded Peace Frogs.

I'll Take it As It Comes.

The End.

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: Pauline L
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 04:54 PM

"To a nightmare of knowledge he opens up the gate
And a blinding revelation is laid upon his plate
That beneath the greatest love is a hurricane of hate
And God help the critic of the dawn."

These lyrics by Phil Ochs were quoted earlier in this thread. I'm not familiar with this song, but I love what I've read here. Can anybody tell me the name of the song and show me where I can find the complete lyrics?

Subject: RE: info pls: 60s music & spirituality
From: sixtieschick
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 06:00 PM

Lyrics to "Crucifixion" by Phil Ochs:

http://lyrics.duble.com/P/philochslyrics/philochscrucifixionlyrics.htm