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Recorder to slow down music?

GUEST,Uncle_DaveO 27 Dec 04 - 07:23 PM
JohnInKansas 27 Dec 04 - 08:22 PM
GUEST,TRANSKRIBER PROGRAM 27 Dec 04 - 09:32 PM
cobber 27 Dec 04 - 11:20 PM
Bob Bolton 28 Dec 04 - 06:03 AM
Uncle_DaveO 28 Dec 04 - 09:45 AM
GLoux 28 Dec 04 - 10:44 AM
Uncle_DaveO 28 Dec 04 - 11:31 AM
Wesley S 28 Dec 04 - 01:46 PM
georgeward 28 Dec 04 - 02:52 PM
GUEST 29 Dec 04 - 10:32 AM
open mike 29 Dec 04 - 02:14 PM
GUEST,petr 29 Dec 04 - 05:46 PM
NH Dave 30 Dec 04 - 01:57 AM
Bob Bolton 30 Dec 04 - 04:33 AM
GUEST,petr 03 Jan 05 - 01:03 PM
Willa 03 Jan 05 - 02:45 PM
GLoux 03 Jan 05 - 02:46 PM
GUEST,Ray in Florida 19 Oct 11 - 04:12 PM
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Subject: Recorder to slow down music?
From: GUEST,Uncle_DaveO
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 07:23 PM

My Beautiful Wife, a classical pianist, is interested in getting a machine (not software, but a machine) by which she can slow down sections of recorded (probably taped) music while maintaining the key in which it was played.

I know that such equipment exists, but don't know where to look to get it for her. And if there's more than one brand, I don't know the relative merits of each, not to mention the cost.

Can someone help out here?

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 08:22 PM

I have a fragment of a post from a previous thread, but unfortunately no identification for the thread:

"On the chance that someone else might be interested in this type of device, one example is at Sabine. Sabine Click on the "music accessories" rolldown, and look for the

BackTrak BT-316M Digital Decoder/Sampler (16 bit) or
BackTrak BT-300 Digital Decoder/Sampler (8 bit)

Sabine also refers to these devices as "Phrase Trainers."

Sample (input) time is limited to about 30 seconds, and playback at the slowest speeds reportedly produces some distortion, but you can "snatch" the difficult parts and slow them down for study without pitch change.

"An associate reports that he purchased the BT-300 a few months ago for about $100, so it's not something to pick up if you don't need it.

The thread in question may have been a couple of years ago. The "associate" was my bald-headed pot-bellied bow-legged son, who has been (reluctantly) admitted back into the family since his marriage to a sweet young lady who needs all the help possible to try to reform him. I know he has made reference to still using his BT300, but he's a long-haul trucker now so it may be a couple of weeks before he's back in touch.

John


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: GUEST,TRANSKRIBER PROGRAM
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 09:32 PM

http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/search?encquery=BF9083612528FC2DEF762EE6C6751924&invocationType=keyword_rollover&ie=UTF-8

copy/past above URL or use google.com [transkriber]

have not used this program - but it looks interesting.


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: cobber
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 11:20 PM

I know you said you weren't looking for software, but Cool Edit Pro does exactly what you want. We did a concert in 1979 that was a little too long to fit on two LPs so our record company in it's wisdom sped the whole thing up to fit. This made everything about a quarter tone sharp and to our ears a bit unreal. You can record into Cool Edit through the mic input of your sound card for live recording, or the line in if you're recording a record etc and either choose from changing the speed with no pitch change or changing the pitch with no speed change (or just changing both like with a tape recorder. It also has lots of effects such as limiting to smooth out the dynamic range and a range of echo types. I run it on an old P166 which is pretty slow so anything better than that will give you a good result.


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 06:03 AM

G'day Uncle DaveO,

I don't have the details before me, but I did chase up a machine for our Dance Workshop people to play dance tunes on CDs ... and slow them down for dancers to get steps right, before taking them up to speed. The one I located let you adjust speeds up and down (by steps of ~ 5% ... ?) rather than smoothly, because that required much less 'sampling' power. I think I started off with a 'Google' search for: "variable speed CD player".

Obviously, this won't work directly from taped music, because the speed determines the pitch ... but you could dub the tunes onto CD, as ~.wav files (via such a program as CoolEdit) and then play them on the variable speed CD player at the required speed.

Of course, if you can settle for actually using your computer and it's speakers ... then I understand a add-on program for Windows MediaPlayer exists that can do the same ... if you are in the PC domain. Once again, for tape (or LP)-sourced music, you would have to record the track onto computer, via a wave editor program before speed-shifting.

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 09:45 AM

Thanx, allabody, for the suggestions so far.

When I mentioned "tape" I didn't really intend to be exclusive. A machine that can do the same thing for CDs would be fine, and I'll be looking into it. As a matter of fact, avoiding the 30 second limit would be a very good thing, although not crucial.

We are not interested in computer applications for two reasons:
1. The computer is two rooms away from her piano, where she wants to use it.
2. She will be involved in this kind of operation for hours at a time, potentially, and we've got enough traffic crunch with use of the computer as it is.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: GLoux
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 10:44 AM

The Marantz PMD series of cassette tape recorders/players have an adjustable speed/pitch control. It lets you slow down a recording enough that it is in the same key, but half as fast...

-Greg


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 11:31 AM

Greg, I own a Marantz PMD201, and I'd be delighted if I could use it for the slow-down-at-constant-pitch function, but I don't see what you're talking about.

It will play or record at two different speeds, all right, but one needs to play back at the same speed it was recorded or you get the chipmunk effect. I don't see a way to vary speed without varying pitch, and vice versa.

If I'm wrong, please enlighten me.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: Wesley S
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 01:46 PM

Check out www.homespuntapes.com - they have a CD player in the back of their catalog for $359.00. A Superscope PSD-230.


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: georgeward
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 02:52 PM

Dave,

I'm fully aware that you don't want a software package, and I don't know all the options.

That said, I've found nothing close to what The Amazing Slow-Downer will do. The Superscope unit WesleyS mentions is a standalone. But you are limited to slowing the speed by 33 percent. ASD will slow something to one-fourth the original speed, tune to your instrument, and let you export a file to burn to a CD (which I now do for students routinely).

Amazing Slow Downer

I'm not sure a second, older (cheap, begged or borrowed) computer and that program or some comparable one wouldn't do the job you want done better than the standalone stuff I've seen. I used to use one of the Sabine units - cheap, but very limited in comparison, with the drawbacks JohninKansas notes.

- George


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 10:32 AM

Two thoughts:

1)Akai "Riff-o-Matic" ....slows down 13 and 26 second passages (the difference being 32 and 16 bit sampling, respectively) to 1/3, 1/2, or 2/3 the original speed without changing pitch. There are functions to adjust the pitch as well, to match the tuning of your instrument. Here's one on ebay that explains all the features. Not a bad price either, if $40.00 is the winning bid.

2)Tascam CD-GT1 Trainer. Here's one here that explains the functions. Only does CD's though. The best thing about this machine is you're not limited on the length of the loop; you can sample any phrase regardless of length. You also have more speed options: 50%; 66%; 84%; 92% of original speed.


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: open mike
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 02:14 PM

the Superscope and Marantz Professional line has the PSD 300
a while back it was going for $1,000 it has two functions:
it can slow down or speed up a passage of music without
changing the pitch or it can change teh pitch either an
octave above or below origianl with out changing the tempo.
this is like magic. plus it has 2 c.d. burniers and can
dub from one to the other. it requirew 110 volt electricity.
check out these sites....
http://www.superscopetechnologies.com/products/psd300/

http://www.superscopetechnologies.com/service/

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/(or find them thru the link on
our folk society hom page...any purchases benefit our socityu
www.bfms.freeservers.com)

http://www.skipsmusic.com/

the one i have does not have as many capabilities..
but it can run off of a battery pack...and can record
in remote areas.


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 05:46 PM

I know you are more interested in a machine than software
however...

if you want to slow down cd's
(I would definitely recommend the amazing slowdowner
as mentioned above its shareware you can download probably around
$40.
and it very easy to operate. (I had previously used cooledit for this
and I find the slowdowner much easier to use, you can just use sliders
and can adjust speed, while keeping pitch the same, or adjusting pitch
and choose start/end points and loop through)

as far as a simple inexpensive machine option, there is a Sony hand held tape recorder, which has a 1/2 speed option (mainly to fit more on a tape, for voice recordings) but it's quite handy for recording
at regular speed and then playing back at halfspeed (it does drop an
octave of course) I bought one about 4years ago for $50 Canadian.
Its not for high end recordings, but if you want to learn a tune
it does the job. (BTW I dont much care for sony products, as everything Ive had from Sony has had some problem with it, and even
this recorder didnt last for more than 3 years. WHen I bought it from the SONY store, the sales staff werent even aware of the 1/2 speed function. I had to find it myself)

petr


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: NH Dave
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 01:57 AM

Going really low tech, Lenco, a Swiss outfit, makes and sells a turntable whose speed is continuously variable from about 16 rpm to about 85 rpm, by the use of tapered drive and driven shafts coupled by an idler wheel. These turntables were sold as part of a Bogen record player for schools and teachers of music and dance.

While this will not retain key signature, unless the record speed is exactly halved,she could certainly hear exactly which notes are being struck as the music progresses.

When I was teaching folk dancing, in a room whose floor was too light to prevent the tone arm skipping across the record as we danced, I frequently recorded the dance music at 1/2, 3/4, and full speed, onto a cassette tape which wasn't affected by floor vibration, so the dancers could get the footings down at slow speed, before they tried them at normal tempo. The same technique would certainly work in figuring out exactly what is being played in any music, especially fast guitar and banjo picking.

Dave


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 04:33 AM

G'day again Uncle_DaveO,

The "Tascam CD-GT1 Trainer" cited by our GUEST of 29 Dec 04 - 10:32 AM is the unit I had tracked down for possible use with our Dance Workshop. The speed options: 50%; 66%; 84%; 92% of original speed are much coarser than I remembered ... but I never got to see (or hear) the unit, which was pretty pricey at some Australian $400 - since it was a one-off import by a small firm that brought in two ... when one of their employees wanted one for her dance class.

Our Dance Workshop ended up with a more flexible unit ... probably someting like the Superscope and/or Marantz Professional PSD 300 mmentioned bt open mike. Their main caller (an electronics engineer) located a good one, at a low price, on E-Bay ... and it worked very well. I had already remastered our old 10-Cassette teaching resource as a 2-CD set, with a few more tracks, and Don was able to pick up most of the older cassette strays into WAV format and burn CD-Rs for use in the new unit.

Of course the dancers were not concerned about pitch, as instrumentalsits would be ... but the ability to work at different speed and in pitch may come in handy if I have to practice my Music Workshop group with the Dance Display Group for specific tune sets ... we can also sneak up on the fast & furious sets - at real pitch, but saner speeds!

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 01:03 PM

I also wanted to add the first tape recorder I got when I was learning fiddle tunes, was a panasonic tape recorder for about
50$ (can) that had a variable speed dial on it. I found that fairly handy.
But for learning tunes from cd's nothing compares to the amazing slowdowner.
cheers
petr


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: Willa
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:45 PM

I got a Sony minidisc recorder (MZ NH 900) for Christmas which has a speed control. You can vary the playback speed from + 100% to -50% (13 steps available) without affecting playback pitch.
Don't know the cost; it might be too expensive for what you want as it has many functions (and a 130 page instruction book1)


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: GLoux
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:46 PM

Sorry for not getting back sooner...you're right about the Marantz PMD changing the pitch...I slow it down half-speed, so it basically is the same note, but in a lower octave...useful to slow down fiddle tunes, etc.

-Greg


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Subject: RE: Recorder to slow down music?
From: GUEST,Ray in Florida
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 04:12 PM

Superscope is the machine that you are looking for. You can get it at either the Jamie Abersold Jazz site or do a search for Superscope. They are expensive but they do the job.

i have been looking for a machine for this very purpose and this is the only one I have come up with. i got an ad in the mail for some other brand but tossed it out unthinkingly. i wanted to slow down jazz solos for the purpose of transcription.

Good Luck


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