BS: The 1960s was crap.

Subject: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Peace
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 08:41 PM

I told GUEST on the 'spirituality' thread that I'd start this thread for him and those who want to talk about how misguided people from the 'sixties era' actually were. Here ya go, GUEST. It's all yours.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 08:44 PM

Bollocks. As far as I remember.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 08:46 PM

I was 5 when they started and 15 when they ended. Too young to really take part. But I sure learned a lot.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Peace
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 08:47 PM

OK, it IS bollocks. I said he should start the thread. However, I noticed he hadn't, so I figured I'd save him the time.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 09:38 PM

the 60s was when I learned what real, traditional folk music was about. It was pretty good times if you weren't caught up in all the pop culture of the day. (Yeah, it was Vietnam, and all that, too...but...)

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Amos
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 09:40 PM

Decades don't be crap. Especially decades in which man gets sent to the moon, Kennedy gets elected and shot, and the Beatles get famous all in the same period. C'mon.


A

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 09:45 PM

It was an absolutely amazing time. I'm glad I was there to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: freda underhill
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 09:48 PM

i agree. a fantastic time. people who werent there havent lived.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 09:48 PM

The 60's is what seperates us from a time when Bubba thought it was his Consitutional right to string up a nigga on Saturday night...

Fir God's sake, we needed the 60's and we're long overdue for another 60's...

Long live the 60's...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 09:55 PM

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

Nothing was like we remember it, because we now view it in our tail lights.

And fer shame, brucie -- it should be "The 1960s WERE crap" since the subject ("1960s") is plural. And you an English teacher, too!

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Peace
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 10:00 PM

Ah, but thinking quickly he says, Rapaire, the term 1960s is meant to imply an era; subsequently, was is correct.

Besides, I was THERE. I lost lotsa brain cells.

Hey, where's GUEST? This thread is for him, you cads.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 10:01 PM

Now, if we're talking crap, how about right now? Sure, there was a lot of self-indulgence in the 60's, but the advances in breaking down discrimination alone justifies some of the excesses. Most of the idealism was genuine, I think. Not a whole lot of idealism left any more.

I can't believe this is a thread with the word Crap in it that John didn't start...

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 10:05 PM

What is truly crap is RAP!!!!

And "New Country". And hiphop. And techno. And disco.

But especially (C)RAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 10:07 PM

Like they say, "If you remember the '60s, you weren't there."

Jerry's right -- lots of excess, but some of that excess was excesses of tolerance, of caring for others, of breaking down barriers, of changes (yes, not always for the better).

Today we reap the harvest of some of the bad excesses as well: drugs of more and more potency, self-indulgence...you can name more.

"It was the best of times...."

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Peace
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 10:08 PM

Disco. You have reminded me of DISCO. Who put you up to this? WHO? Disco. YMCA dah dah dah dah dah, YMCA. My head hurts. BADDDDDDDDD.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 10:08 PM

"60s" is a collective noun? nahhhhhhh...

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: GUEST,jaze
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 10:11 PM

What Bobert said and pretty much everyone else. Sure there was good and bad, but the good and idealism far outweighed the bad and in many cases overcame the bad. There was a feeling that hasn't been here since. Of HOPE and change for the better.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 10:11 PM

I was there. I remember. Not all 60's folks did those various things to excess. Joan Baez didn't, and she remembers too. Young people had powerful ideals in the 60's and that was what made it such a special time. We believed we could make a better world. And to some extent, here and there, we did.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Biskit
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 10:18 PM

I think more was expected of the 60's then they were actually able to give. It was one of those things like communisim,..it looks really good on paper but in the end there is just to much money to be made from the "believers" and the leaders become more corrupt then the folks they're supposed to be against,...But The 70's Wow! Hippy Chicks, tapestry dresses, puchuli (sp) oil,outstanding concerts, did I mention Hippy Chicks?? A man with a guitar and a song in his heart could go far back then,...can't say I remember all of it, put the parts I do remember,...I remember vividly.
Peace! Through understanding.
~Biskit~

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 10:18 PM

Glad they came, glad they went. Been there, done that, played the music (so long and loud it buggered my ears), wore the t-shirt out, don't believe in trying to relive history, living in the 2000's now.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 10:22 PM

The reason the 70's were so great was basically this: the 60's lasted until around about '75.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 11:00 PM

Was there for it.

Had much of my life formed by it and remember enough of it.

I firmly believe that much of the conservative climate that exists today is backlash from it. There was good that came out of it as far as the civil rights movement and there was bad that came out of it such as drugs and the sexual freedom that led to AIDS and way too many out of wedlock children.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 11:19 PM

Yup. The 60's caused AIDS.
At least its original bullshit for a change.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Metchosin
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 11:28 PM

And what are we going to blame syphilus on.....I know....the British Navy!

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 11:41 PM

But who gave it to the British Navy in the first place?

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Metchosin
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 12:02 AM

Sheep?

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 12:07 AM

DON'T BLAME ME!

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Metchosin
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 12:07 AM

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: number 6
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 12:16 AM

Out of the 60's came some of the best (ever) of jazz, folk, and rock. Other than that, well it was better than the 50's and better than the 70's. Did a better world derive from the ideals of the 60's? Nope, not at all.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: harpgirl
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 12:34 AM

When I think of the 60's I keep wondering why we do not have an anti-war movement like the one in the sixties. Most of us feel the same way about Iraq that we did about Vietnam. It couldn't just be because of the draft....

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 12:43 AM

I was 20 years old in 1961. It was simply an incandescent time that envigorates me intelectually to this very day. I also agree with Bill D and his good insights. I agree with all threads that echo those posive observations. And I disagree with whatever was said in the other posts.

So there.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: number 6
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 12:47 AM

The 60's did produce an eclectic, outrageous band called the Fugs. We'll definately never see and hear a band like that again!

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 12:48 AM

Wet Dream Over You.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: number 6
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 12:52 AM

HeHe, they were good Brucie

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Metchosin
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 12:55 AM

"Did a better world derive from the ideals of the 60's?"

Ask that of someone who was forced to sit in the back of the bus because of the colour of his skin.

Ask that of someone who worked to get some birds back from the brink of extinction because of high concentrations of DDT in their eggs.

Ask that each time an area is set aside as a another park in order to protect habitat.

Ask the Vietnamese people if they preferred then to now.

I never believed in fairy tale endings but some things definitely changed for the better. However, you don't just blow your wad and then figure you've done your bit and sit back on your ass. Its a little too early to tell and as such, I'm not ready to write it off yet.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: LadyJean
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 12:58 AM

I miss the music. It was music not commercial rubbish. I miss the faith that we could make the world better. I miss the styles. Now I can finally afford a leather vest with lots of fringe I can't wear one. Oh, and how I miss my peasant dresses. I was a great one for peasant dresses.
When the 60s began all kinds of discrimination was OK, Blacks, Jews, Catholics, the disabled, the just plain odd, were victims of a society that said a good person was a good white Protestant, who could work for General Motors.
When the 70s began, that notion was well on the way out. Good riddance!

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 04:30 AM

Martin, there is no way anyone can blame the 60's for aids but it can be blamed for the so called "Permissive Society" that made for the rapid spread of aids.
HOWEVER> I most remember the 60's for "The Beatles".."The Rolling Stones" and the advent of many other Rock/Pop groups. The 60's heralded a revolution in many things..particularly types of music and the arrival of the larger concerts that are now part of the everyday scene.
The whole period was definitely not C... as suggested...It was a time of re-learning...a sort of renaissance of musical learning and Social learning which may not have been altogether good but was a great experience to live through.
I'm glad I was there!! But with the sentiments of Strollin' Johnnie....it is all a long time in the past...we have moved on and on and on and now we are in the 2000's..So lets LIVE them through...as long as we are able.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 04:35 AM

Poignant memory

1971 sitting with friends in a pub in my college town of Grantham Lincolnshire - Margaret Thatchers hometown - founder member of the right wing backlashers.

Paul MacCartney's Another Day came on the juke box.

I remember saying , Oh shit! You didn't need to be a Beatle to write that. The party's really over now....

none of my friends believed me at the time. they do now.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 05:26 AM

I think it's a little unfair to dismiss the '60s as crap (or anything else) simply because not everything worked out exactly as we envisioned it. Nothing good ever does. But a lot of things got started in the '60s which have yet to reach fruition. The Age of Aquarius for example.

What would life be like now if we had gone straight from the '50s to the '70s? Silly question. No point asking it. The 60's didn't change history, the '60 WAS history.
(I subscribe to the collective noun theory)

John

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: *daylia*
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 07:18 AM

I was 1 when the sixties started and 11 when they ended. I wouldn' t call the decade "crap". But there's plenty of things I remember about the 60's that I was grateful to see changed by the end of the 70's - most particularly the laws/norms surrounding women and children.

By the end of the 70's, kids could no longer be beaten by their parents/teachers (at least in public), women were finally recognized legally as "persons", and men could no longer rape an unattached (ie single and 'unowned') woman without sanction (as long as he claimed her skirt was "too short" or something similar).

My Grade 6 teacher, mother of three sons, was deserted by her husband in the early 60's. Though the church and community rallied to support the family, the poor woman could not remarry. She needed her husband's "permission" to file for divorce, and he'd just plain vanished. I watched her struggle miserably for years. How idiotic.

If it was the counter-culture of the 60's that helped to generate these changes - along with the changes re civil rights and awareness/concern for the environment that began in the 60's - then my heartfelt gratitude goes out to the hippies!

What's disconcerting is to observe that the girls of today seem to have no idea how fortunate they are. "Feminism" has become almost a dirty word, and the young women of the 21st Century take their hard-won freedoms, educational/occupational opportunities, "rights" and autonomy and legal status for granted.    :-O   This is amazing to me; it feels like I've been living in two completely different 'epochs' or 'worlds' during only one lifetime.

Now what I can't figure out is if I'm a "Baby Boomer" or a member of "Generation X". Generation X is supposed to refer to the children of the baby-boomers, born in the 60's and 70's (approx 1961-1981) Yet I see that sometimes, people born between 1958-1964 are included as "Baby Boomers" - and yesterday I found a reference to Alanis Morrisette, born in 1958 (the same year as me) as a premiere member of "Generation X"! IF that's the case, then I'm the same generation as my oldest son, born in 1977. How can that be? ARRGGHHHH I'm confused!!! Maybe I need a musical interlude ... Whooooo am I ... who who ... who who ... Whooooo am I .... tell me who the **** am I!   

;-) daylia

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 07:33 AM

I am old enough to remember but was too young to participate in, much of the 60's. Those who do, invariably in my presence assure me that if "you can remember, you werent' there!" (yes, Rapaire said it first in this thread but it was the first thing went through my excuse for a mind)

Harpgirl, as to why there isn't the same level of protest now as then, there are three main reasons:
1) Elimination of the draft.
2) We look and feel more like winners now.
3) Modern technology, military and civilian.

I agree with Martin Gibson, that enlightened social attitudes, particularly civil rights independent of race and sex, got their momentum rolling (The roots of both of those revolutions emanate from the 40's and 50's however - check out Halberstam's book The Fifties ). The "Love" generation were very photogenic then (particularly in the rain); I recall too much toleration of drugs and a high level of self-righteousness that has tracked a lot of those folk.

The Sixties saw the end of the "big tail" fad of American cars, Bay Of Pigs, the Race To The Moon, the artificial heart, Cuban Missiles, Star Trek, Test Ban Treaty, Twilight Zone, Cleopatra, The Six Day War, Mister Machine, Perry Mason, Allen Sherman, How The West Was Won, King Kong versus Godzilla, Clay versus Liston, The British Invasion, To Kill A Mockingbird.

In the future lay: Gay Liberation, The Yom Kippur War, digital watches, Disco, Pet Rocks, Valley Of The Dolls, Watergate, Paul McCartney & Wings.

If the decade of the 60s were crap, then all the other decades are too!

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 08:26 AM

I remember the 60s as such an exciting time to live. I remember the hope. I remember the optimism. I remember the feeling of limitless possibilties for change for the better. I remember it as being an intellectual Christmas morning. Each package held a pandora's box of cool new ideas.

I also remember some bad stuff, but I don't dwell on it.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 09:08 AM

No question in my mind that the most unfortunate aspect of the 60's was the diversion of young people's energy into drug use...using drugs to entertain themselves. I was not touched in any way by that, as I chose not to use drugs. I will never forget Joan Baez's brilliant comment on the whole thing...

"It's silly to make marijuana illegal. Of course...it's silly to smoke it too."

That got both the establishment AND the hippies mad at her, but she was absolutely right on both counts.

A secondary unfortunate aspect was the promotion of sexual promiscuity ("free love"), which is simply not a very good idea. I wasn't much affected by that either.

When you line up all the good ideals that inspired people in the 60's next to that, the 60's still comes out looking pretty good to me.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: GUEST,George H
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 09:13 AM

My sweet Lord! Between this thread and that other one, I do hope you snarly old folkies recycle all that vitriol!

Here - put this in your pipes and smoke it. Might mellow you out a little.


THE LIGHT THAT HAS LIGHTED THE WORLD

I've heard how some people, have said
that I've changed
That I'm not what I was
How it really is a shame
The thoughts in their heads,
Manifest on their brow
Like bad scars from ill feelings
they themselves arouse
So hateful of anyone that is happy
or 'free'
They live all their lives,
without looking to see
The light that has lighted the world

It's funny how people, just won't
accept change
As if nature itself - they'd prefer
re-arranged
So hard to move on
When you're down in a hole
Where there's so little chance,
to experience soul

I'm greatful to anyone,
that is happy or 'free'
for giving me hope
while I'm looking to see

The light that has lighted the world


Peace.

George

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 09:27 AM

SWEET SURVIVOR
Peter Yarrow -Barry Mann -Cynthia Weil- Silver Dawn - ASCAP

You have asked me why the days fly by so quickly
And why each one feels no different from the last
And you say that you are fearful for the future
And you have grown suspicious of the past
And you wonder if the dreams we shared together
Have abandoned us or we abandoned them
And you cast about and try to find new meaning
So that you can feel that closeness once again.

Carry on my sweet survivor, carry on my lonely friend
Don't give up on the dream, and don't you let it end.
Carry on my sweet survivor,
Though you know that something's gone
For everything that matters carry on.

You remember when you felt each person mattered
When we all had to care or all was lost
But now you see believers turn to cynics
And you wonder was the struggle worth the cost
Then you see someone too young to know the difference
And a veil of isolation in their eyes
And inside you know you've got to leave them something
Or the hope for something better slowly dies.

Carry on my sweet survivor, carry on my lonely friend
Don't give up on the dream, and don't you let it end.
Carry on my sweet survivor, you've carried it so long
So it may come again, carry on
Carry on, carry on.

DON'T STOP TO REST
(Song for Phil Ochs)
Steve Romanoff

Relax, relax in photographs of places where you've been,
Where nothing new can worry you, you've earned a rest, my friend,
The riot tears and rebel years have vanished with the din,
Of young bureaucrats and slapping backs and prizes they can win,

You've seen them all at city hall, you've seen them in the street,
You've seen them masquerading where the better people meet,
Convinced at last those days are past when they should give a damn
About the anguish in the world, about the future in their hands.

        You've heard the promise of the evil men
        Don't stop to rest or we'll come back again,
        If you remember then you ought to know,
        Don't stop to rest 'cause we've got far to go.

Come all you young-eyed citizens, a story I will tell,
Of how a Great Society was going all to hell,
But children who resembled you were brought up on a war,
Had had their fill of overkill and said they'd fight no more,

It cost them miles of marching and it cost them years of pain,
Before their fathers realized their kids were not insane,
But now we're all executives too busy to recall
The days of righting what was wrong, the words of writing on the wall.

        Chorus

Now don't misunderstand me 'cause I mean just what I say,
Old pledges made in passion still should mean something today,
You've done your bit, don't go and sit behind your groaning board,
And let the scrivener set down, you've given all you could afford.

        Chorus

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: GUEST,Oracle
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 09:56 AM

Daylia, don't let the dates confuse you. Just go check your dainties drawer. If it's overflowing with a tangle of steel-reinforced waist-cinching girdles, garters, nylons and/or padded, pointed Playtex Cross-Your-Heart brassieres, you're a definitely a Baby Boomer. On the other hand, if you find mostly polyester low-cut bikini panties, textured pantyhose and/or the tell-tale absence of brassieres of any genre, then you're most likely Generation X.

Simple.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 09:57 AM

Georgiansilver, you said it better than I. The 60's "permissive society" led to the AIDS epidemic. But the "permissive society" came out of 1960s style rationale and rebellion.

When I say that the backlash is being felt now, believe it. The permissive society that led to the tolerance of the gay and lesbian lifestyles and it's effects on the deterioration family values were voiced loud and clear in our last election.

Some feathers riled by this?

Too fucking bad.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: GUEST,HOO HAH!
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:45 AM

Who cares, the more gays, the more women for me, and the more lesbians the less ugly women in the running - ROLL ON HOMOSEXUAL RIGHTS

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:49 AM

Thank you from the all lesbians are ugly crowd.

Subject: RE: BS: The 1960s was crap.
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 11:19 AM

The War cast its shadow over most of the decade. The atmosphere of limitless possibility created by the Civil Rights Movement, and visionaries like King and Kennedy, was poisoned by assassination. The personal liberation that came with the sexual revolution, the music, and the psychedelic experience, was tempered by the knowledge that you could be drafted, uniformed, and killed at the will of the government. Life had a sweeter, sharper edge.
And it didn't hurt that I was nineteen.

Life is change
How it differs from the rocks
I've seen their ways
Too often for my liking
New Worlds to gain!
My Life is to survive
and be Alive for you
Jefferson Airplane

Here's to all of the survivors