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For those who hate RAP!

dwditty 31 Dec 04 - 09:23 AM
Dave Hanson 31 Dec 04 - 09:24 AM
Peace 31 Dec 04 - 09:27 AM
Leadfingers 31 Dec 04 - 10:06 AM
fat B****rd 31 Dec 04 - 10:07 AM
Dave Hanson 31 Dec 04 - 10:13 AM
John C. 31 Dec 04 - 10:21 AM
Peace 31 Dec 04 - 10:24 AM
GUEST,punkfolkfocker 31 Dec 04 - 10:42 AM
Bat Goddess 31 Dec 04 - 10:49 AM
Little Hawk 31 Dec 04 - 10:53 AM
GUEST,willie-o 31 Dec 04 - 11:44 AM
GUEST 31 Dec 04 - 11:53 AM
kendall 31 Dec 04 - 11:59 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 31 Dec 04 - 12:01 PM
Little Hawk 31 Dec 04 - 12:08 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 31 Dec 04 - 12:12 PM
*Laura* 31 Dec 04 - 12:19 PM
robomatic 31 Dec 04 - 12:28 PM
GUEST,Sidewinder 31 Dec 04 - 12:57 PM
Azizi 31 Dec 04 - 12:58 PM
JohnInKansas 31 Dec 04 - 01:04 PM
annamill 31 Dec 04 - 01:11 PM
Peace 31 Dec 04 - 01:26 PM
Bloke in the Corner 31 Dec 04 - 02:27 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 31 Dec 04 - 02:59 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 31 Dec 04 - 03:01 PM
John C. 31 Dec 04 - 03:04 PM
Bloke in the Corner 31 Dec 04 - 03:10 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 31 Dec 04 - 03:17 PM
Rory B 31 Dec 04 - 04:30 PM
Rapparee 31 Dec 04 - 04:41 PM
GUEST 31 Dec 04 - 06:31 PM
Auggie 31 Dec 04 - 06:33 PM
EagleWing 31 Dec 04 - 08:04 PM
GUEST 01 Jan 05 - 02:47 AM
dwditty 01 Jan 05 - 02:49 AM
Big Al Whittle 01 Jan 05 - 03:10 AM
kendall 01 Jan 05 - 11:18 AM
Azizi 01 Jan 05 - 01:30 PM
Willie-O 01 Jan 05 - 01:58 PM
Bloke in the Corner 01 Jan 05 - 02:07 PM
GUEST,Monsieur Mojo 01 Jan 05 - 02:48 PM
GUEST,Monsieur Mojo 01 Jan 05 - 03:34 PM
Bloke in the Corner 01 Jan 05 - 03:49 PM
MurkeyChris 01 Jan 05 - 04:11 PM
EagleWing 01 Jan 05 - 04:50 PM
EagleWing 01 Jan 05 - 04:59 PM
Strollin' Johnny 01 Jan 05 - 05:10 PM
Strollin' Johnny 01 Jan 05 - 05:14 PM
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Subject: For those who hate RAP!
From: dwditty
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 09:23 AM

I understand that RAP goes against the sensibilities of many on here, but a friend recently sent me a CD by the Canadian artist K-OS. Here is somebody rapping positive messages, replete with flamenco guitar, sitar, and, as far as I can tell, no DJ antics of running a record back and forth. I like it alot.

ANother reason to listen to rap/hiphop is to get a good idea of what your kids are up to.

dw


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 09:24 AM

What kids ?

eric


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Peace
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 09:27 AM

Had ya nervous there for a sec, huh?


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:06 AM

At First I thought this thread was a slur on my Secret Santa !!


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: fat B****rd
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:07 AM

F**k it, I like Rap.


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:13 AM

It may have good lyrics and serve a purpose but it haas no musical value.

eric


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: John C.
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:21 AM

I love the science fiction writer Harlan Ellison's description of most modern pop music: "Post-music noise".


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Peace
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:24 AM

"Ellison Wonderland."

'I have no mouth and I must scream.'


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkfocker
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:42 AM

"It may have good lyrics and serve a purpose but it haas no musical value."

complete bollocks old chap..

the best of rap..
and even examples of the more mediocre..

is an inventive and living highly immaginative
and musically captivating artform..

..though most of modern factory churned out rap is most likely
repetitive formulaic oportunistic negative lyric shite..

so please keep it in perspective..

a large part of folk has no musical value;

fortunately the good inspirational stuff
is worth devoting a life time to..

same with rap..

and yes..
theres plenty of room for sympathetic intelligint
and musical folk/rap crossover..
just as much as folk/blues
folk/country..
follk/punk..
err.. folk/prog rock..
and those supercilious diletante classical musician folkies
that stretch my tolerance levels..

happy new year....


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:49 AM

Uh oh, thread creep. Anybody read Harlan Ellison's WONDERFUL intros in "Dangerous Visions" and "Again Dangerous Visions"? Even better than the collected stories.

Back to rap . . . when I first heard it, it was rather exciting. That was back in the '80s and it was more like street poetry with a background of interesting and intellectually appropriate music clips. Alas, it deteriorated rapidly as a genre. I really hate it blasting mindlessly from the car next to mine at a stop light. Otherwise, I can avoid it.

And a friend of ours who does recitations at our session came out of working many years at the post office and wrote (and performs when we can cajole him) "The Post Office Rap."

Linn


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:53 AM

Like the other guy said...What kids????


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,willie-o
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 11:44 AM

Just hearing K-OS on CBC as someone's best-of-2004 choices as I check this thread. They are not only socially responsible but have considerable musical value--in fact it doesn't fit the "rap slot" so many people have constructed for this genre, I am hearing some real nice soulful harmony singing, the kind I couldn't do on the best day of my life.

My question is, why in this world full of freakin choices, because humans are different and understandably like different stuff, is it assumed, albeit correctly, that so many people just plain hate anything in the rap/hip-hop call-it-what-you-will genre? I've heard various interviews with country singers who apropos of nothing will say, "I hate rap", right in there with how much they love Mom, apple pie, Old Glory and good old dead dogs like Shep. I mean, I don't like opera but why would I bring that up in a conversation about sheep dog trials?

I consider this kind of special singling-out of rap for condemnationto be a kind of legitimized racism, whether intentional or subconscious.

So it irritates me to see crotchety old folkies going the same way.
If you don't listen to something cause you don't like it at all, you're hardly qualified to pass judgment on its musicality.

Of course, when it comes to other subjects, like say, drumming circles, I have my own incredibly worthwhile opinions...


W-O


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 11:53 AM

"If you don't listen to something cause you don't like it at all, you're hardly qualified to pass judgment on its musicality."

I suppose then,according to you, very few are qualified to pass judgement regarding the taste of a mouthfull of crap either.

Come on. Anybody over 40 with two or three brain cells left to rub together knows, without having to be immersed in either, that
both are extremely distasteful.


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: kendall
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 11:59 AM

Rap is to music what graffiti is to literature.


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:01 PM

..sounds like you're well over 40
and down to your last failing brain cell..


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:08 PM

Yeah, but....WHAT kids?

My brain is working fabulously, thank you very much! :-) I have never been smarter and more clued-in than I am right now. If you want a few tips on improving your own brain cells, I will be happy to offer you some...


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:12 PM

i love folk music..

not all of it.

and not many of the highly dubious intolerant supremacist characters
who take pround refuge in their version of its shadily retrogressive
traditionalist agenda
and inward looking social sub-culture..

happy new year again..


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: *Laura*
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:19 PM

rap is one thing - RnB is another. rubbish and bollocks.


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:28 PM

I really enjoyed the French Rap that came out of the movie "Le Haine" The group is Expression Direkt. I don't understand it and make no claims for its social value.


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,Sidewinder
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:57 PM

Some of the most stirring and thought provoking music of the 70s and 80s were Rap or Rap inspired listen to Grandmaster Flash -White Lines Public Enemy etc. and tell me that it's trash. As it developed from Subterreanean Homesick Blues (supposedly) then you will agree the same for songs of Woody Guthrie and the enigmatic Mr.Z I suppose? In the 1940s people were ridiculing Jazz, in the 50s it was Rock and Roll, and so on, and so on. These people were afraid of change and tried to maintain the status quo. But we all know now that there is something positive to be gained from every new cultural development and ridicule and negativity toward new ideas amounts to oppression and censorship and where did those evils ever get us? If you're going to criticize at least have the decency to do some research first.

Best Wishes.

Sidewinder.


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Azizi
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:58 PM

To punkfolkfocker & willie-o,

Right on! {A decidedly out dated compliment!, I know.}

While I don't consider myself a "crotchety old folkie" or even a "folkie" at all, I do post on this forum and I am over 40.

And I feel that I have just as much right as anyone else to an opinion or two or three.

I believe that there are some good rap recordings and some bad-just like other music genres. And yes, I do consider rap to be a musical genre and hip-hop to include more cultural aspects than the music such as its influence on written & spoken language that mainstream United Staters and others uses 24/7 without giving props when & where & to whom they are deserved.

It seems to be traditional for older people to dis the young, but
I will not sit back and let "crotchety old folkies" and young bloods or middle age people whatever dismiss an entire musical genre without saying my piece.

Peace!


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 01:04 PM

While I find most current rap "uninteresting," due largely to the commercialization and subject matter, my impression is that there is a legitimate "folk" history that could be of interest. Unfortunately the current "rap" cycle seems to be associated with an "invented" black ethnic origin that isn't well documented (so far as I know).

My first knowledge of what now passes as "rap" was from a "wandering minstrel" of sorts who visited at my church youth group activities in 1955-1956 from "somewhere on the west coast." He gave frequent demonstrations, but called it "street-talkin'" and reported it as an ethnic phenomenon from the "Hispanic ghettos" where he had lived recently in Southern(?) California.

Since our "youth fellowship" and our "choir" were essentially the same group, and consisted almost entirely of music and/or religious studies students from Friends University (then formally the "University of Friends Church") there was significant "scholarly interrogation" of the visitor, and a few people apparently did make an attempt to "research" the phenomenon. It was reported informally to us that inquiries with "black churches" with which there was an association found no knowledge of the method within the black community in Wichita, although the extent of the research done was probably not thorough. It is possible that some of those who were interested may have carried reports back to their music departments, but I don't know of any formal theses on the subject.

There were no existing associations with Hispanic ethnic groups at the time to make inquiry there, so it's not possible to say whether it was "known underground" in our area. (There were few Baptists in the Hispanic community of the era.)

It may be noted that one of the students in the group was in the process of doing a "research paper" on "speaking in tongues" and had made some "unusual" contacts as part of that research. He reported that he had asked about the "street talkin'" among those contacts. He found no direct knowledge of either phenomenon within Wichita, although I had heard (from outside - they can be quite loud) what appeared to be "speaking in tongues" at one local church and reported that to him when I heard of his interest.

Unless some unknown scholar has made records, it's likely that the current "rap" commercial exploitation has "polluted" the history far too much to make any real research/gathering of older history possible. But it would be interesting ...

John


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: annamill
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 01:11 PM

I LOVE Harlan Ellison! Is he still writing? Is he still alive? I once considered leaving my second husband, traveling to Cali., finding Harlan Ellison just to tell him I loved him. All this from Shatterday! I want more!! I must find these other writings you have spoken of here.

Just like all !music!, some rap I like (eminem, LJ Cool, Ice Cube, and someone help me, Vanilla Ice), some is obnoxious and highly offends my
gentle sensibilities. Tee Hee.

Later..

Love, Annamill


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Peace
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 01:26 PM

Ellison is IT as a writer. He ranks with the best. I keep hoping to see something of his come out--and hoping, and hoping . . . .


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Bloke in the Corner
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 02:27 PM

Yes, most rap is dreadful, trite rubbish which has NOTHING to do with music or talent - it's largely a CHEAT. Can any of them actually play an instrument?
Of much more importance, however are 1)that it sings the praises of a vile attitude towards the rest of the world, giving young people a dreadfully wrong view of reality and 2) it has subverted black music into a travesty of what it was thirty years ago and should still be - namely the very basis of the best popular music. There are simply NO good black artists around now, they are either sneering, foul-mouthed men or appaling, warbling women churning out the most banal, valueless songs to a public increasingly fed what the major labels what them to hear. It is a shame that young black kids have no-one better to look up to than 50 cent or Missy Elliott.


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 02:59 PM

[old prejudiced ???]Bloke in the corner..

actually a reasonable point of view
re the worst of
commercialized negative gangsta rap..

,,but c'mon...

"Can any of them actually play an instrument?"

is that really still such a serious issue or crime

in a music culture that cherishes unacompanied accapella solo singers

..and encourages the the public performance
of even the most simplistic 'music by numbers'
3 open-chord stilted guitar fingerpicking
faltering vocals trad song murderers..???


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 03:01 PM

..and as for

"There are simply NO good black artists around now".....


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: John C.
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 03:04 PM

It seems to me that we human beings have fallen into a deadly trap of worshipping change for changes sake. Please remember, though, that "any change increases entropy (unavailable energy). Therefore, any change that produces no net positive good is invariably harmful." (Gene Wolfe - another science fiction writer). It seems to me that popular music is undergoing a process of decay and degeneration - with each successive style or genera (OK, fad!)being more empty and vacuous than the last - turning into meaningless noise, that is. Just as marketing men have discovered that they can sell bottled water (and will soon be selling bottled air, no doubt) they have also discovered that they can sell contentless canned noise. I may be an old fogey, in my 50s, but it could also be argued that I have lived long enough to have a proper perspective on this (I've seen endless fads in music come and go).


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Bloke in the Corner
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 03:10 PM

A capella stuff is cool, of course, no problems- but it never was main stream music. And which of today's black artists - other than those who have been around for many years - actually contribute something positive and original to music in general?
You'll have realised already that I have NO prejudice against black music in general - 60s Motown, blues, jazz, Leadbelly, Michael Jackson except when he thinks he's Jesus in that awful video. But WHY must MOST black music nowadays be filled with hate, attitude or subjugation of women, and - other than the computer-written songs for women singers which are stunning in their unending banality- be utterly devoid of musicality, melody and rhythm- surely the basis of music?


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 03:17 PM

"(I've seen endless fads in music come and go)."

me too.. [ i'm only a few music fads younger than you ]

ok.. rap is not my favourite music..

but the good rap/hip hop music that i love
and new suff i still occasionally hear..

can argueably be traced back in its musical expression
to the likes of Cab Calloway and his era and back beyond..

so i think its below the intelligence of the 'folk community'
to be so ignorantly dismissive of a very popular
and influential genre of contemporary music art..



happy new year..
and probably my last message this year
before me and the mrs go out to the pub
and wassail ourselves into a right discgracefull state
to see in the new year..


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Rory B
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 04:30 PM

Wow...a lot of interesting comments both positive and negative. I hope this discussion will inspire at least a few of you to actually listen to some of the "good" rap. My daughter told me that rap actually stands for Rythym And Poetry. It was shortly after learning that from her that my SOCAN magazine arrived. They interviewed the Rapper that DW mentioned at the start of this thread. K-OS. I immediately went out and bought his CD, Joyful Rebellion, because I liked what he had to say about the direction that RAP had taken and how he felt it had taken a wrong turn driven by the recording companies desire to make money etc. He is an extremely talented artist. The entire CD is a constant surprise that takes many musical directions. It is wonderful. It was also a great reminder for me that keeping an open mind can bring you wonderful discoveries you might have missed!! ( I am now also a cool mom for buying a rap cd LOL)
Happy New Year to all and thank you DW !


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 04:41 PM

You folks don't even know me!


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 06:31 PM

One of the common lines of thought that runs through way too many Mudcat discussions (especially below the line) has been reintroduced again here, this time by Sidewinder.
He is evidently allowed to express his opinion, but those who disagree are immediately deprived of theirs lest they be guilty of 'oppression and cernsorship'.
If you think rap has something to offer that's great. My teenage and twenty something kids would agree with you, and I value their opinions. But, don't get on here and whine, moan and play victim if the rest of us fail to appreciate your point of view.
As to your assertion that "there is something positive to be gained from every new cultural development", well, I don't know what planet you're living on but the list of cultural developments,just in my lifetime, with no positive aspects is virtually endless (think crack cocaine, high rise housing projects,freeing the people of Viet Nam/Iraq,etc.,etc.,etc.).


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Auggie
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 06:33 PM

Sorry. That last post was me.
Rap has a tendancy to do that to many of us (make us loose our cookies).


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: EagleWing
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 08:04 PM

I hate RAP. I don't hate it because of racial discrimination as some one has suggested (why does someone always have to play that stupid card?) I don't hate it only because most of what I have heard is foul and hate laden. I don't even hate it because what I have heard of it is musicless and doggerel. I hate it because I hate it! Those who take a different view have already labelled me, along with Kendall as "..sounds like you're well over 40 and down to your last failing brain cell". Yes, I admit to being over 40 but I can assure punkfolkrocker that Kendall's mind is sharp and his musicianship is unquestionable - my own brain still functions well. Off course, if anyone who disagrees with punkfolkrocker has to be treated to the kind of insults with which he treats those who don't like Rap as well as those who are over 40, it doesn't really say much for either his intelligence or his tolerance.

Obviously, there are a lot of people here who don't hate rap. That's great. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Personally I can't stand Sinatra, Dean Martin or any of the "rat pack". It's for different reasons - and just as prejudiced, no doubt. We don't actually need to analyse why we don't like a particular music, smell, food etc. We just have opinions and those who dislike a particular kind of music have as much right to their opinions as anyone else.

So, punkthingie and others, please allow people their opinions about music and continue to air your opinions about music - not about people you disagree with.

Frank


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 02:47 AM

EagleWing ....

what..!!!!??????

what the f*ck are some of you people on..


..or on about..???


i'm one of the good guys..



1'm 46 years old.

very puzzeled whats going on between the ears of some of you befuddled 'liberal' folkies

very sad ..

and do you know what ...


i got a better life to lead than caring about what

ignorance and stupidity some of you are passsing on

to your children in the next musical generation..

ok.. i admit it


it makes me very sad..


..and yes.. guess what.. you are RACIST by default..

get to grips with it and admit it to yourself..


you'll feel a whole lot more comfortable in your white skin..

and your blah blah blah..

f*ck it i'm bored with the half wit conservative stupidity of some
of you FOLKS..

dawn is breaking.

birds are singing..

life is beautiful..

and i got a wife who needs seeing to..


and no i aint gonna storm off in a hissy elton john fit..

because i want to live in a 2005 where some of you backwards backwoods folk
either come to your senses
or no longer blah blah blah....

happy new year...


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: dwditty
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 02:49 AM

ummm...errrr, well Rory B gets it. And Willie-o, too. I was just trying to point out that I had recently been turned on to a Rap CD that I found utterly enjoyable. Just about everyone else has painted all of Rap with the same broad brush, which seems a terribly unenlightened approach to rap, and the world in general.

Ah, well. I think I will go of an try to learn one of the songs and fit it to my style. Maybe the one called Hallelujah.

dw


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 03:10 AM

When you get really old and wise, like me. You will realise Winnie the Pooh had it about right when he said , Everybody's all right...really.

Rap is fine for everybody who likes it. it only upsets me when i am in a traffic queue and they drive up behind me and ruin my contepmplation and chanting OM. Once your aura of calm is gone - everythings buggered.

that was a nice song Randy Newman did about Rap -forgotten the name of it - the something man and little something - he mentioned Run DMC in the lyrics. Another nice thing to come out of Rap is the ranting style poets like nic Toczek of Bradford, who is full of wisdom.

Wishing you all a happy and tolerant new year......


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: kendall
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 11:18 AM

Thanks Frank. All I did was state an opinion, I did not judge anyone else's taste, or the lack of it.


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 01:30 PM

It seems to me that too many people are lumping all of the sub-types of rap into one generic genre [or into one large garbage bag] disregarding any differences between them, probably because they don't know the genre well if at all.

Also, it seems to me that too many people are judging rap using aesthetic standards for European/Western music that probably aren't applicable to this genre.

I'm just sayin...it may not be the wisest thing to judge what you don't know.


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Willie-O
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 01:58 PM

Jeez, this is still going on.

My point was, why is it so common that this particular genre gets singled out in this kind of way, so we're not surprised to see this thread title even though dwditty was saying something positive?

Ever seen an MC thread entitled "For those who hate bluegrass"?

So I stand by my opinion that for some, expression of this sentiment can be a form of ill-concealed racism. (Bloke In The Corner, yours is not very ill-concealed, say, are there "any good white artists" today?)   

At the same time, I am sympathetic to the observation that "I don't like it because I don't like it." Matter of fact I feel that way myself. But since I don't listen to it, I can't say I've done any statistical studies that prove that "most of it is vile" etc. etc.

John In Kansas, always interesting to hear from you--I had never heard that the roots went back that far. The first rap I ever heard, back in the old anarchist commune days, was a group called "The Last Poets" who were very political and cool, I think they started in the late 60's.

Most of us are well north of 40, so tossing that out as if it meant something is kind of pointless. (A few years ago someone did a survey and found the average Mudcatter that responded was 54 or so.)

Yeah, peace, eh.

W-O


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Bloke in the Corner
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 02:07 PM

Woah, Willie, don't brand me a racist - I'm the very opposite. In my book a man or woman is judged by what they do, not what they look like. I still say there's very little good black music about at the minute. Look at my post where I said it and read about the black artists & music genres which I feel have given us so much. I don't think we're getting much out of black music today. My opinion of the music, NOT of the skin colour.


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,Monsieur Mojo
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 02:48 PM

"...and not many of the highly dubious intolerant supremacist characters who take pround refuge in their version of its shadily retrogressive traditionalist agenda and inward looking social sub-culture..."

You go punkfolkrocker! You nailed a whole lot of "folk" around here with that one!

The best of rap, hip hop, dub, etc. is excellent poetry, spoken word, and done in a plainsong/chant sort of riffing way I just love. The electronic wizardry of it is also very cool, IMNSHO.

Most the so-called "folkies" around here are into their special brand of museum music as a hobby.

Rap, hip hop, dub, etc. is the real deal for livin' today.

And who can't love the intensely creative and playful sorts of stuff from the likes of Toronto's Moxy Früvous, who turn all the racist stereotyping on it's head?

I'm still trying to get my head around that comment about no decent black artists today...whew, that is some pig fuckin' ignorance.


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,Monsieur Mojo
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 03:34 PM

And I would like to add that Public Enemy & especially NWA's 'Straight Outta Compton' albums hit me harder and deeper than any Dylan and Dylan wannabe dilletantes' music ever did.


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Bloke in the Corner
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 03:49 PM

As it happens I really enjoy loads of types of music. In my car I've currently got Silly Wizard, Pearl Jam, Countin' Crows and a Rock compilation - Iron Maiden, Metallica, Korn etc. I'm no Luddite folkie, just an ordinary bloke sad at the way so much music is going. So name me a 'today' black artist who can sing - not shout or scream gibberish - and/or play an instrument - who is not singing songs composed by computer. Tell me any of them who can compare to Ray Charles, or Aretha FRanklin for musicality!


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: MurkeyChris
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 04:11 PM

Okay off the top of my head Macy Gray, Lauryn Hill and Ms Dynamite are three exceptional 'today black artists' artists using real instrumentation.


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: EagleWing
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 04:50 PM

Seems to me that this discussion is divided into two kinds of people. Those who believe that everyone is entitled to like or dislike whatever they like or dislike and those who think that anyone who disagrees with them has to be abused. It's a pity that most of the latter kind are those who like RAP.

Frank


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: EagleWing
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 04:59 PM

Monsieur Mojo says:
"Most the so-called "folkies" around here are into their special brand of museum music as a hobby."

How do you define a "so-called 'folkie'" as distinct from any other kind of folkie?

What's wrong with music being old - perhaps the same as being over 40?

When does a good song (subjective definition of course) become "museum music"?

When does a music genre (say RAP) become music for "folkies" and how long will it take for it to become "museum music"?

When will Mojo realise that the above line actually defines him as a bigot as much as other people's statements about black artists are supposed to reveal them as racists (according to some.)

Frank


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 05:10 PM

Pointless arguments, all of them. It's like sprouts, you like them or you don't - either way doesn't make you a racist/idiot/worthless person. We can't all be the same - accept it and get a life.


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Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 05:14 PM

And for the record, and in keeping with my views on all kinds of music, I like some of it, I don't like some of it. BTW I'm 57, mentally competent, in full-time employment, physically fit and my plumbing works fine.


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