Tech: Problems with Mudcat?

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 06:04 AM

Foolestroup -

What you see may depend on settings. You can set up in Windows Explorer to "view web pages as single file" and it may affect what you see in the Temporary Internet Files folder. Each web page may display as a script and a folder with the same name containing any embedded graphics for that script. Other than that, there should be no sub-folders in Temp Int Files, if you're using only IE as a browser.

I don't know whether Windows may make separate folders if you use more than one browser, although there's no obvious reason why it should.

Assuming that you're looking in the ...\username\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files folder, you'll also see cookies. "Delete Temporary Files" in IE should not delete any cookies - only files with "page content." There's a separate button in IE - Tools - Internet Options to delete cookies. If you "Delete Cookies," you'll lose all your cookies, and you will have to log in again.

By definition, a "Temporary File" is one that's only intended to survive until you close the program that made it. With normal setup, closing IE should clear them all, but since other programs may depend on IE (and/or related Messenger) services, they sometimes fail to clear, and may "accumulate." By design, Windows won't delete a Temp file that's necessary for any program that's currently running. Any "needed" Temporary file will be created by the program that needs it, the next time the program is opened or, in the case of Temporary Internet Files, the next time the page is downloaded.

Most temporary files used by Windows have a file name that says that they are a temporary file. Generally, a filename that starts with the leading "~" character, and/or has a .tmp file extension is a "temporary file." The Temporary Internet Files folder is required because it is a "temporary archive of files" but the files themselves are only "temporarily there." The filenames would be valid as "regular" files if placed elsewhere. Their "temporary" use is only identified by where they are, not by their filename. This ambiguous identity is one of the reasons why it's preferable to use the "Delete Files" button in your browser rather than by going to the location and manually deleting stuff. It's just easier on your brain.

There is usually an immediately adjacent folder that's just called "Temp" that is also a sort of "special" thing. It is an archive of downloaded program stuff, saved as a backup for use by System Restore and/or other maintenance. This folder does typically have quite a few subfolders. It will not be affected by the "Delete Temporary Internet Files" button in your browser. (And if you're looking with an older DOS, in DOS, the truncation of filenames may make it difficult to tell the difference between ...\username\Local Settings\Temp and ...\username\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files.) It's generally "safe" to delete things from the \Local Settings\Temp folder, but you may lose some "go back" capability.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 11:46 PM

JiK

re "delete all Temporary Internet Files" - if you look directly in that folder, there are dozens of subdirectories. Do you know what happens if they are all deleted? Any suggestions for a Kb article on the effects?

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 07:49 PM

Not a problem, but just curious. When I restart my computer, Spyware Doctor removes all cookies, etc. that have tried to hitchhike. When I enter Mudcat, I am notified that two cookies have been removed. Anyone know what they are?

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 07:35 PM

Re "refresh" vs "reload"

The normal refresh may download a new page from the server or may just reload one from Temporary Internet Files on your machine. There's no clear way to tell it which to do. You can make settings in IE Tools to tell it to "always check for new versions," but this setting never seems to "stick" for me.

Although it's not too clearly stated, at least one Microsoft Knowledge Base article suggests using the F5 key to "reload" a page in IE. This is the same "reload" key you can use in Windows Explorer when, as occasionally happens for example, when you add a folder in the right window the folder doesn't show up immediately in the left window. It is supposed to force the program to re-read the source. No guarantees, but try it if you like.

Another possible option is to go to IE Tools - Internet Options - General Tab, and in the Temporary Internet Files section, delete all Temporary Internet Files. This should clear all the pages in memory so that IE won't have one to call up and will have to re-load the page if you do a refresh. Again, no guarantees, but it's a sort of "good theory."

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 06:06 PM

That's the 'refresh' I was talking about, Snuffy. Depending on what browser you use, it's either 'refresh' or 'reload' - it does the same thing. That's what I thought Bill was talking about, but he was talking about 'refresh' on the Mudcat page. I gots it now!

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Snuffy
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 09:33 AM

Where is reload in IE? I can find several refresh options but no reload.

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 08:35 AM

'refresh' and 'reload' are exactly the same (Jeri)

On one of my computers 'reload' makes multiple Mudcat posts whereas 'refresh' doesn't. On the other, both are the same. Don't ask me why.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 08:32 AM

I have had no problems with the site all morning!!!!!.

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 08:28 AM

Got back in again just after I posted the last message and have only just left so it seems to be ok at the moment

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST,sandra in sydney
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 08:14 AM

well, I'm still a guest on the IP bookmark (207.103.108.99).

None of my other 4 bookmarks work (mudcat.org is bookmarked twice, & i also have buddy & the IP address). I also put www.mudcat.org into google & received the same 'Site under Construction' message as I got for the mudcat.org bookmarks. At least buddy gave a message saying it couldn't be found!

So I dunno, but I'm sure I'll find out sometime this weekend when Chris visits to fix things up.

sandra

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 07:18 AM

Bugger!! I spoke too soon. There I was, settled down with me lunch to have a nice chat for the first time in weeks. Two other people had just joined me, and BAM! It all fell down again! That's like giving a kid a lolly then snatching it away just as they're going to lick it!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 05:33 AM

HOORAY!!!!!! I got in in the day time via the front door for the first time in three weeks!!! Perhaps the lunch club will be back in Mudchat??

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 05:32 AM

Well it's about 10-30 AM in sunny Scotland, [snow blindness beckons] and this is the first day I've been able to log on to .org at this time for ages.
Thanks Max.
Giok.

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 12:25 AM

no, I don't think so, Jeri...refresh at the top of Mudcat works within the site, and asks for the newest threads to be displayed using the settings IN your browser (if that makes any sense) whereas 'reload' tells the browser to open the page as if it were just finding it, looking for relevant cookies as it does.

This what fooled me....I would reset my cookie, it would tell me the job was done, and even note how many PMs I had...but when I went to the forum, I was still a 'guest'. Drove me crazy, (though I just used a different browser and went right on)...then one day, I grumpily hit 'reload', and LO! it found my cookie and logged me in!

...so, my revelation was just accidently doing the right thing, and sorta deducing..(or maybe 'inducing' in this case) that 'refresh' had not bothered to look at the cookie that was just set..

Now...if that is all wrong, I sure like to know what it was, 'cause at the time, I PMd Jeff and he didn't know what was wrong...

Thus, I suggest at least trying it if one runs into the 'can't reset cookie' problem...ya' never know!

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 08:36 PM

Bill, unless Opera's different (and I'm too lazy to look), 'refresh' and 'reload' are exactly the same.

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 08:00 PM

NOTE-NOTE...please note! 'Sometimes' when you lose your cookie and go to have it reset, it will say you have been found and reset, but when you go to the forum, it doesn't seem to have taken, and you are still a 'guest'. This can happen if your browser is using a catched copy of the site! (meaning that it is using the same settings as before. In THIS case, the 'refresh' button is of no use, and you will need to reLOAD the page for the cookie to be recognized.

I made this mistake with my old Opera browser awhile back, and thought there was some arcane setting or firewall interfering....but when I just **reloaded** immediately after redoing my cookie, it worked fine.

Hope this saves someone some trouble...

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Chris Maltby
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 07:22 PM

Back from Tassie now and the wonderful Cygnet Folk Festival. For Sandra-in-Sydney's sake, all you Mac users are probably immune from the spyware that Max is blocking. The other problems with access are harder to diagnose from what people have described as symptoms. Perhaps it's just the regular server being too busy to respond, while the buddy one is less of a target...

If those sypware tools cause extra traffic, plus the number of new search engines which seem to ignore the usual advice about which links to follow it's no wonder that there is an overloading problem. A search robot will fetch pages as fast as it can get them, so it doesn't take a lot of that to soak up a server. Full marks to Max for sorting that out as well as putting the block on dopes who install spyware...

Anyway, it's working fine for me (Mozilla on Linux).

Chris

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 05:22 PM

So Mudcat'll block you for having 'ware' on your PC, but not for being a flaming, trolling, anonymous a$$hole... Or Martin Gibson....

As if one was in some way worse than the other...

*shakes head*

LOL

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: vectis
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 04:43 PM

I've been unable to get into Mudcat via the front door for several days now. In the end I put spybot on and ran it. It found a few nasties which I removed and suddenly I'm straight on via the front door again.
Coincidence or was I being blocked because of something i was carrying on my poor little pooter?

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 11:37 AM

Shed -

So mudcat remembers your email address, but your login doesn't work.

That probably means that mudcat has forgotten your password - or maybe you're not spelling like you did before.

The usual is to post a request for a "forgotten password" and let the 'cat send you what it thinks you should be using. Note that it can only be sent to the email address you used when you joined, so if you've changed addresses you will NOT receive it at your new one. If your original email addy doesn't work now, you'll need to send an email to Pene or Joe O. See the "Contact Us" at the verrry bottom of the Quick Links roller.

I don't know how strict mudcat passwords are, but most passwords are at least "case sensitive." For some, an A with CapsLock set is NOT the same thing as an A made using Shift-a. For some, a digit on the NumPad is NOT the same thing as the same digit from the keyboard top row. It does make it tough to remember exactly what you used - especially if you log in several places with different "strictness" rules.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Shed with roof off and sides blown down
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 10:42 AM

I dont think I'm alone on this but Mcat has forgotten my login but when I try to reregister it remembers my email address and says I'm already a member So I enter the login and again its not recognised

Is this everyones experiance

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Giok in the blizzard.
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 09:20 AM

I can't access my PM file to get an address I want boo hiss ;~(
Giok

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST,sandra in sydney
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 08:30 AM

welcome to 207.103.108.99 where Members are Guests!

sandra

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST,eric the red
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 08:27 AM

www.mudcat.org down again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 02:38 AM

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 03:50 PM

Guest of 10:50. While it may be a problem for some users not all the non-availablity of Mudcat was caused by adware/spyware. My own machine doesn't have and has not had any detectable malware (and I'm no Luddite - one of my degrees is in this stuff; I have 3 malware detectors and nothing shows in any of them. FunWeb products don't and never have been on this machine). Mudcat really was unavailable (and unpingable on the one time I tried) - the only site I couldn't reach, and based on the number of posts when it became available to me it was a common problem (in the UK at least).

I agree that having visible hints for users might not be a bad idea though. The subject of malware has appeared in several threads, but not everyone will bother reading tech-related threads, so the news-headline at the top of the page is a good idea.

Mick

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 02:56 PM

" As I recall, it wasn't all that long ago that Clinton, I think, complained of the contamination here at Mudcat"

Close... I received a 'bot' email from a [e-mail] email addy... so it either came from that person themselves, or from someone with the bot infection with that person in their email addy book... And I posted here so they'd notice, run their viri scanners and clean up their acts...

"If you don't know how to do these things, you shouldn't be allowed on the damn internet!"
To a certain degree I have to say I agree... But people drive without knowing anything about their cars... and they renovate their homes without knowing anything about tools or building codes...   These are the same people who slide through barely icy intersections on bald tires, and burn down whole neighbourhoods because of faulty wiring...

The worst part about the PC ignoranus is when they 'claim' to be 'proud' of the fact that they're ignorant... But then they whine and suck when their favowite wittwe message board goes down, because they infected it with viri, and other internet garbage...

So to some respect, ya.. it'd be nice to see people have to take a test and earn the right to surf the net... prove they can do it without perpetuating viri and spam and garbage... If they fail, make 'em use Web-TV... Or a Mac...

The internet would be a MUCH quieter place, I can tell ya that...

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 02:35 PM

Since I installed the Spyware Blaster there are some pages that won't load, but they're usually small things, like images enlarged. Makes me wonder what baggage is coming along with that image. So far there hasn't been any reason to disable the SpywareBlaster.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 11:19 AM

Got new upgrades from Spyware Doctor today. It seems, along with Norton, to do a good job.

I like to get my news from the NY Times. Their online version seems to be loaded with hitchhikers; there seems to be a lot for the 'doctor' to remove. Washington Post is better. My hometown rag wants Activex (sp?) activated, but I refuse.

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Sorcha
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 11:04 AM

Spybot seems to run just fine now. No idea what was going on.

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 10:50 AM

Although I know most people posting at Mudcat are luddites when it comes to this stuff (hence the disappearance and reappearance of Mudcat looking like magic, and Max the magician to them), I think it is all the more important for websites like this to provide this information to it's users regularly. A permanent link at the top of the page to a message explaining this in a nutwouldn't hurt at all

As I recall, it wasn't all that long ago that Clinton, I think, complained of the contamination here at Mudcat, though I can't recall now if he was complaining about malware or viruses via the PMs? Can't remember.

Anyone who believes these days that you only have to worry about this stuff if you surf porn and other "bad" sites is seriously deluded.

This stuff is the basics of computer operation these days. If you don't know how to do these things, you shouldn't be allowed on the damn internet! Not really, but one's own ignorant bliss can cause others a lot of grief. It would be good if people got up to speed on some of this stuff if for no other reason than they want to keep Mudcat online. The nasty stuff can wipe out a computer (like the Mudcat servers!) in no time flat.

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 09:22 AM

John, thanks. I bought that computer in Oct 98, so it was just a matter of time before something went that I didn't feel like fixing. The modem, by the way, was the newest thing on there. It doesn't have an ethernet jack, and the same line that didn't work in that one is working fine in the external modem I'm now using. Line OK. The modem tries to dial, and says there's no dial tone, so it's the connection between the line and the modem. If the line is OK, and the modem's mostly OK, and I don't have an ethernet jack, there's one other thing it might be that's related to stupidity.

Yep. I just checked, and in the flurry of plugging and unplugging yesterday resulted in the phone 'out' line being still stuck in the phone 'in' jack. Phone still worked, but the phone likely doesn't care what it's stuck in as long as there's a connetion. It's amazing how one's IQ can be improved by walking away for a while. (Then coming back and doing the stuff you thought only 'stupid' people should try.) I'll see if fixing this works when I get off line.

Netscape v. 4.04 does NOT handle Mudcat well! Stone knives...

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Mooh
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 07:28 AM

Got my kid to run Spybot etc and she found 272 invasions (for lack of a better term). McAfee, of course, was blind to them all. Suddenly all is right in our cyberworld, for now. Because McAfee caught the occassional adware, we thought we were safe. This has been an education and then some.

Max is the Mudcat prophet, priest, and king. Whatever his funding, his motivations, his accountability (as was mentioned above), he does a superhuman job of this and so when there're problems, I just sit back and wait for the next miracle. His work is incomprehensible to me.

It's the 21st century blues theme, God bless him.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST,sandra in sydney
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 07:08 AM

the only way I can get in is via this lot of numbers - 207.103.108.99, neither mudcat.org or buddy work for me.

I wish my very own help desk would get back from holidays, I dunno anything. I'm on a very new iMac waiting for the CD containing all the files from my deceased Compaq laptop to be installed & have no idea if any of the above nasties apply to my system. Maybe I could send this very long thread to a Mac using techo friend ...

sandra

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 06:43 AM

Sorcha -

Spybot install has been so clean for me that I haven't really looked into what you can do to foul it up. The only behavior I have observed is that it occassionally runs into permissions problems. It often says a particular one or two malware components can't be removed if it's run under anything other than an Administrator login. IF YOU HAVE CREATED MORE THAN ONE USER IDENTITY, or otherwise have an Administrator account set up, it may be necessary to log in as Administrator for successful install. With most programs, you'll get an error message saying "You don't have permission to do that" or something similar, but Spybot does have the almost unique "feature" of being able to bomb due to insufficient permissions without producing the normal message.

Jeri -

Modems are one of the components most susceptible to "frying" their Input/Output parts due to external electrical influences, so it is possible that yours has died. The most common other failure, though, is in the little pigtail lead you use to plug it into your 'phone jack. These cords can look perfectly fine and lose a line quite easily. If you haven't already done so, at least try a different phone wire before resorting to more drastic measures. If you've changed the connection, make sure that you haven't plugged into an ethernet jack instead of the phone jack on the computer. They look very similar, and are often located side-by-side, although the ethernet plug is a little larger. The smaller phone plug can be inserted in an ethernet socket, but of course won't make the connection.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 04:30 AM

Seems to be working perfectly today, 17/01/05 9.0am

Whoever fixed it [ max ] well done.

eric

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 11:43 PM

Neither Norton nor Spybot picking up anything like it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 09:20 PM

OK, when I got home, I ran Spybot....no funweb. Having some other probs, so tried to run it again...got an error msg, parameters incorrect. Uninstalled, re installed, and it did the same thing. Any ideas?

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 04:33 PM

I downloaded a newer version of Spybot than what I had, I downloaded the updates, ran it, and was clean. THEN I downloaded, updated and ran Ad-Aware, and it found 24 items. (20 related to 'Hi-Wire' and 4 links to scumware sites.) Sheesh.

Anyway, I got all updated and then my modem fried. I assume it did, since it keeps telling me there's no dial tone even after a few cold and warm re-boots (and nearly a re-boot with a real boot), fiddling with plugs, etc. My ancient (Win 95) laptop and an indestructable US Robotics Sportster modem seem to acknowledge a dial tone.

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 02:03 PM

In the business section of the paper today-
"Staying safe online has gotten too complicated for the average user," America Online spokesman Andrew Weinstein said.

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 01:55 PM

Spy Bot didn't find anything. But Ad-aware found two items.

Art

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Alba
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 01:44 PM

Yip Eric....as Guest 4:46am says...that's basically what I had to do.
I cleared out a lot of....'sh...stuff and then checked my add remove programme list and removed more stuff then did a search for anything that might be lurking and removed that.
It seems my Comp is running better too so....
Back door today though can't get in the front door...but I am coming in as Alba!! and not Guest anymore....stranger and stranger......~~~~twilight zone music in the background~~~~~~~
will wait and see.
Good luck Eric.....:>)if you haven't already got it your comp sorted.
Blessings and Best Wishes
Jude

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 01:28 PM

I have been using the Front Door all afternoon.

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 01:07 PM

Urghhhhh! Haven't been able to get in AT ALL today until now, and it's still only via the back door...I feel like a fish without water!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 04:57 AM

I have just got using the back door method, thanks for that.

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 04:46 AM

Spent an hour on the phone helping another Catter get back on last night. Installed and ran Spybot, found 95 "nasties" including FunWeb. Healed the "nasties" and imunised, still no access to MC. Went to Add/Remove Programmes and checked for any installed programmes from the list in the article refered to in Max`s warning. Found MyWeb Speedbar there and uninstalled it. Access to MC restored. Guess Alba been through similar process.

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST,eric the red
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 04:29 AM

OK Alba, HOW ?

eric

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 01:07 AM

Noooooooooooooooooooo doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooubt.

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 12:49 AM

Like the original Netscape (Mozzilla) MS war...(and it was bloody, and it was was awful, and the smell of rotting corpses were hidden in the eromatic-spiced-censors of the fed)

Currently, especially, but also (since, and before big-name engines went public) there is a battle of the BOTS -

My recent experiences with FireFox requesting server priviages moves its architecture into LimeWire, Napster, ad-server, x-slime, etc. etc.

In my opinion, most ISP users should ALL be sent a little, monthly "BUG" for them to work-out and defuse.....consider it an IQ test....or a surfing Mr. Gore's "information super-hyway" SoBrieTy tEst. <[p>

The heartland of the net still exists .... it just isn't where it was three - five - seven years ago.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Tech: Problems with Mudcat?
From: Alba
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 11:11 PM

Well now. Im back....only took me 6 hours to get it sorted but....I did.
For an extremly Technically challenged Mudcatter I have to say I am feeling good......like I know that it would now...I feel good....ect
All nasties are now GONE......yippppppppeeeeeeeee
Just wanted to share this with anyone (probably noone) who might care.
Blessings to all, and double to Max for Info.
Cyber Space the final frontier!
Jude