Celtic music

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: GUEST,D.H.L.
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 01:22 PM

England's folk music is not Celtic. The Anglo-Saxon's displaced the Celtic tribes before the first 500 years A.D.. Some of these tribes went to Wales and Scotland some to Cornwall and other outposts but the "new people" from Germany and the boarder of Denmark spoke what we know today as English. Music or narrative from this time onward should be defined as "English folk". Nuts to the Normans!

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 08:34 AM

In Germany, it's just a label for a certain type of music. The big shops need labels for the 'folksy' CDs to be found.

One shop had 'Barachois' (Canada) under 'Celtic' (well, I can understand them a bit, for the only alternative for music from North America was 'Country and Western'.

We have one alternative label and that is 'Irisch'. I've found the Watersons under 'Irisch', Dick Gaughan, Tannahill Weavers,....

One shop with the two categories 'Irisch' and 'Schottisch' had a CD with songs of Robert Burns under 'Irisch'. I asked them why and they told me that the label 'Schottisch' is only for big pipe bands.

In this context, there is no label 'Englisch' in Germany, never. English folk by default is either under the label 'Irisch' or under the label 'Schottisch' or 'Celtic'. One of the rare situations in this world in which 'scottish' (or 'irish') also includes 'english'. That's a little consolation for the many vice versa instances.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: Mooh
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 11:42 PM

The local festival's solution was to refer to it as "celtic roots", maybe as good as any other defining term for the purposes of marketing and distinguishing it from other themed festivals. But I don't really care since it introduced me to the likes of Simon Mayor, Tony McManus, Lunasa, Crucible, and of all things The Creaking Tree String Quartet (how's that last one for a reach?).

Besides, I get a free t-shirt for volunteering, so I can overlook the niche marketing terminology. I can be bought.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: Teresa
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 11:26 PM

I've experienced this in other contexts, for example, science fiction. There are science fiction enthusiasts who wouldn't be caught dead using the term "sci-fi" because it is used in conjunction with media programs and not literature So the term SF (ostensibly for "speculative fiction" has been introduced.

I suppose if you're "in", you know the right code words. That seems to be a part of human nature. I basically will use the terms most are comfortable with when I'm speaking to them.

As much as I don't like to split hairs, this subject is sort of fascinating to me. :)

Teresa

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 10:55 PM

I find the term useful. Yes, it's mis-used, but so are the terms "jazz," and "democracy.," for example, as some of the old Soviet satelite states called themselves "democratic,' and some very soupy, warmed-over stuff gets labelled '"jazz." When I head over to the "Celtic" section of the CD store, I know I'm going to find Scottish, Irish, and maybe Welsh music, not German or Chinese music. If they throw in a few misty mood recordings in with it, I can pass them up and go for what I'm looking for. If I see a Celtic music festival advertised, I know i will most likely find Irish and Scottish, and maybe Welsh music, as northern California's annual Sebastopol Celtic Festival brings in major performers from Ireland and Scotland. Of course, there may be some lousy celtic festivals that do not offer up such fare, but again, you can separate the wheat from the chaff. If a musician hands me a business card that advertizes them as playing "Celtic music on Irish harp,' I know I'm going to hear Celtic music played on an Irish harp, not Koto music (unless they throw in a non-Celtic tune or two). In short, a mis-used, but also well-used and useful term, in my book.

Chanteyranger

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: cool hand Tom
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 10:52 PM

I know what u mean Teresa.
                           Its just you buy so many cheesy albums with Celtic covers ect which is not celtic at all most are songs from 19th 20th century with no celtic influences at all.As a banjo player i may take a second instrument a great big bronze trumpet complete with wolfs skull at at the top.give it one huge blast record it a make an album entitled the sounds of the celts hehe.

   Regards Tom.

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: Teresa
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 10:40 PM

I like it all. Tom ever heard brass Monkey? Oh, sorry, that's English. ;) I love piping and all the above I mentioned, as long as it stirs my soul, call it what you like. I guess I'll call it celtic for now until the English language evolves some more.

Teresa

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: cool hand Tom
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 10:32 PM

Tut Tut Kaleea
                U forgot the old bone or wooden whistle too LOL.

    What about me bronze trumpets and drums

Regards Tom.

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: Teresa
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 10:24 PM

Oh oh, Kaleea, you forgot the bouzouki. ;) That, too, has an ancient lineage.

"The more things change, the more they stay the same." ...

Teresa

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: Kaleea
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 10:18 PM

Sell-tick? Kell-tick? The Celts are a people. Their roots ago Eastward across Europe at least as far as Spain, & many believe farther East. The Music of these Celtic Peoples will never be 100% known to us, however, some of the Music of the Itinerant Harpers of Ireland is documented and remains popular among many folks around the world who love "Folk Music"--the Music of a people which has been handed down from generation to generation. The modern day ancestors of these ancient Celts enjoy & play Music which may vary according to region & personal taste. The Music of any region changes over time, yet some is so beloved that it remains after centuries. Some of this Music of the Celtic peoples remains.
    As far as the modern instruments, the guitar has been around for hundreds of years as a version of the many types of the Lute, or Ut, or Oud, which is played today, & was used at Caesar's courts & well before, & is ancient. Ditto with the Mandolin. The Banjo is an instrument which goes back to China, or Africa according to some experts, and is thousands of years old. Modern versions have a metal tone ring which helps to project the sound, and often a synthetic product instead of an animal skin. Otherwise, it is the same instrument. Fiddles have been around for thousands of years. The modern one is held under the chin & has been around for hundreds of years. It is also in the Mid & Far East, it is held on the knee standing up & facing out, with the fiddler otherwise playing it in the same manner--using a bow across the strings and fingers of left hand finding the notes--and that goes back thousands of years.
    The so called "Celtic" Music of today is often defined by the instrumentation as well as the form and style instead of the peoples from which it originated. People change over time, so it is no surprise that their Music also changes.

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 10:01 PM

I still prefer the tag folk or traditional music as it covers a whole range of musical origins, trouble is the marketeers ,as many have pointed out, are pushing the Celtic Button with a vengance to market some pretty awfull compilations and albums of warbling, effleuntreal (sorry ethereal)crap.

Here in Shanghai I found a cd collection of 'Celtic pan pipe mood music', it has not been added to my collection.

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: Gypsy
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 09:49 PM

Eh, as long as they tip or pay me, don't really care. We call it traditional european, ourselves, since it is such a big continent.....covers alot of territory. Get far more miffed at people calling my hammered dulcimer a xylophone!

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From:
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 09:18 PM

Not for me, Michael. You may own to 'celtic music' and get used to it if you wish, but I for one will not have a bar of it.

Anyone telling me I perform 'celtic' music is politely advised otherwise and left in no doubt as to my views on the matter.

The term is, as Anahata says, a marketing invention to make a commercial killing out of wildly promoted, upbeat 'irish' music. Then it was collectively applied to all manner of Irish, Scottish, Breton etc., music

Time and a newer craze will perhaps relegate the expression to history.

Cheers

Jack

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 09:13 PM

Daftest thing in this line I've seen is the labelling of this event taking place in March - Norwich05 Festival of European and Celtic Music and Dance"

I've no doubt it'll be a very enjoyable weekend - but what the hell do they think "Celtic" music is, if it's not European, at least in origin? Where do they think the Celtic nations are situated?

"With a wide range of dance and instrumental workshops led by the performing bands, and including Tango, French & Swedish Dance, Salsa, Hurdy Gurdy, Violin, Melodeon." Tango and Salsa? Nice music, but surely neither Celtic nor any other sort of European. (And I'm not in any way suggesting they don't belong, just that "European and Celtic" is a remarkably silly label to stick on the event.)

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: cool hand Tom
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 09:10 PM

The reason i brought up this subject was i lookin for some CDs at a music shop.Full of celtic patterns ect,Looked at the back and was greeted bye the Rocky Road to Dublin and Molly Malone.

Thing that got me was they made the album cover Like a Celtic Artifact.
            Bring out them bronze serpent headed trumpets and them war drums.Give me a warband and then im thinking Celtic music is on the menu.

             Regards Tom.

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: Teresa
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 09:09 PM

[running back to the store counter] Oh, I forgot, it can be sung in Scottish and Breton, too. there might be some other things I forgot; too tired to think of them now. :)

Teresa

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: Teresa
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 09:01 PM

I like:

music-with-stringed-instruments-and-whistles-and-bows-and-buttons-that-can-be-sung-in-English--or-Irish-or-Welsh-or-Cornish-or-Galician-and-some-other-languages-thrown-in-occasionally-and-it-can-contain-New-Age-themes-but-I-don't-like-those-much.

Whew. what should I call it?

:)

Teresa

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: michaelr
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 08:49 PM

We've had this discussion before. For better or worse, the term "Celtic" has become established (at least in America) as a catch-all covering music based on the Irish, British Isles, and Atlantic Europe (read: Breton, Galician, etc.) musical traditions. Yes it's misleading, yes it's just plain wrong, yes it encompasses some of new age's worst excesses -- but it's here to stay, so we may as well get used to it.

Besides, it's much easier to say "I play Celtic music" than "I play music based on the Irish, British Isles, and Atlantic Europe (read: Breton, Galician, etc.) musical traditions."

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: GUEST,Celts 'R' us
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 01:18 PM

aaaarrgghh !!!!

the soundtrack music for the recent Hollywood " King Arthur* " movie..

somebody strangle that woman before shes ever again let anywhere near a microphone and reverb..


* interestingly enough directed by a Black American
former Hip Hop / Rap video director..


shite script.. bloody good fight scenes
[at least in the Directors cut 'more blood 'n' guts' version DVD]

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: Wesley S
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 01:06 PM

It looks like there are two options. One is to educate the customer so they will know the proper terminology - which involves discussion from the stage. The other is to let the customer decide. If someone walks up to buy your CD and says that they love "celtic" music - is that the proper time to correct them ? Or do we just say "thanks" and let it go ?

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 01:04 PM

When I think of Celtic music, I think first of Enya wannabes, self-involved women singing pseudo-spiritual lyrics with too much reverb.

That's a shame, isn't it?

-Joe Offer-

Actually, I like most of what they call Celtic music - but I can't stand the reverb.

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: treewind
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 01:03 PM

It's a marketing invention, like world music.

The English are a bit touchy about English music being called celtic, on account of real English music being in danger of getting drowned in Irish-theme-pub and tartan-and-bagpipes stereotypes. Not to mention new age "celtic mush" (didgeridoos, synthesisers and excessive reverb)...
no I shouldn't have mentioned that...

Anahata

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 12:53 PM

I'm right there with you all on this. When folks tell me they play Celtic music, I ask them what that is. They, knowing me as a singer who does a fair amount of Irish and Scottish music, look at me like I have a tale.

Celtic is not music. It is a term that loosely describes the early European tribes and civilization. It far too broad a term to describe ones music. I would say that if someone called themselves a "Celtic Musician", they must be VERY talented. It covers a lot of turf.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: GUEST,Jack Orion
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 12:09 PM

I have never, for the life of me, understood what is Celtic Music. I know it is folk music of Scotland and Ireland, but why not England? Scots and English music have more in common with one another than with Irish, I would have thought.

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 11:39 AM

There is money to be made by calling it "Celtic" music. Otherwise, the term is meaningless, misleading and a waste of space.

Subject: RE: Celtic music
From: Gedpipes
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 11:15 AM

Its better than being called Rangers music?

Subject: Celtic music
From: cool hand Tom
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 11:53 PM

Hi all.
       Just a thought, i have,im not a whiner ect but i hear lotsa reference to Celtic music,maybe its me but i see celtic music as bronze trumpets with mythical beasts on top being played with drums before battle.in many years BC to mid AD.I play much English,irish,scots,welsh folk tunes but its not Celtic as most of us play and sing lotsa trad stuff,but me with banjo lots with guitar mandolins fiddles ect.Im not opening a can of worms but when i hear concerts,celtis connections ect i wanna see tribes with woad. war drums,brass trumpets ect.

Mybe its me but its just an observation as i reckon the celts where first mentioned by tacitus and julius caesar.

So im wonderin why with our modern instruments why we call it Celtic music.
       Food for thought
                         Regards Tom.