BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.

Subject: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:13 AM

Given that our Prince Harry chose to dress up as a Nazi (and was photographed in this costume) in order to attend a private fancy-dress party - perhaps the whole concept of this form of dressing up is worth a review.

For in truth - dressing-up as anything threatens to offend someone. Or should this form of dressing always be seen as harmless fun?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:18 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4170083.stm

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:20 AM

The Sun reported that Prince William was also at the party - dressed as a lion.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:34 AM

Well at least William was slightly more in tune with the party theme (Colonial and Native - whatever happened to Tarts and Vicars!) than Harry... As far as I'm aware, Germany, and particularly Nazi Germany was never one of our colonies, nor is Harry a native of that country, despite having German forebears.

He is guilty of bad taste and should apologise himself. He is old enough to make these mistakes, drink and smoke, so he is old enough to say sorry for them himself.

Personally, I think it would have been funnier if he went dressed as Queen Victoria.....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:59 AM

There a bunch of idiots, shoot the lot of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,John from Hull
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 04:00 AM

last guest was me.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 04:04 AM

Dressed as a Nazi? Did he raid the family dressing up box for a uniform belongng to a distant great uncle or summat?
Prat!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 07:50 AM

I used to think Battenberg was just a cake, till I met Ponce Harry!

Don't be silly be smarty
Come and join the Nazi Party

Was he auditioning for a part in The Producers, or were his antecedents [ like that Amos? ] showing?

Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,harp
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 07:53 AM

Harry's going to be in MAJOR SHIT with Queenie!!!! Oh boy...how does one punish a prince?????

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,shiplap structure
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 07:54 AM

I blame it on his deprived upbringing and lack of proper education Blame it on the parents

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,artbrooks
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 08:40 AM

Tasteless, but I'll leave the Harry-bashing to our friends across the pond. However, just as a point of historical fact, I believe that the very small part of his ancestry that's German dates from well before Hitler was born, so it's very unlikely that he has Nazis in his family tree.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Giok After the power cut
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 08:44 AM

I don't know about in his family tree, but I do know the he is out of his tree.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 08:48 AM

If he was doing historical re-enactment it might be different, but it was bad judgement on his part.

How do you punish a prince? Well, Richard III demonstrated one way. And in Burma they used to use velvet sacks....

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 08:53 AM

bad taste yes - but if you believe the war movies the Nazis were very active amongst the colonial areas - so it was in keeping with the theme.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 09:35 AM

it's very unlikely that he has Nazis in his family tree ... Edward VIII comes close, though! Maybe not actually a Nazi, but certainly a sympathiser!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Brucie
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 10:31 AM

I thought this thread title was saying that he wore a fancy DRESS somewhere.

As to the Nazi uniform: what a bloody fool.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 11:42 AM

Inbreeding, Brucie, inbreeding.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 11:53 AM

I think Harry exposed a basic British and European mentality.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: PoppaGator
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 11:54 AM

Tempest in a teapot, as far as I can see.

What I heard on the news was that the theme for the costume party was "bad taste" as well as "colonial and native," and Harry certainly succeeded in portraying bad taste.

FYI to my fellow Amuricans: In Britspeak, a "fancy-dress party" is what we'd call a "costume party."

The Shambles asks:

"...dressing-up as anything threatens to offend someone. Or should this form of dressing always be seen as harmless fun? "

I say "yes," it's nothing BUT harmless fun. Of course, I live in a city where masking/costuming is a way of life; we're used to it and manage to maintain a clam perspective about it. Anyone who can't take a joke? F*** 'im!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:02 PM

Once again, the press have latched on to a silly mistake and blown it out of all proportion...don't know if it is the same over the pond but the papparazi have gone loopy here. I saw a programme last night on TV which portrayed their cloak and dagger tactics to get a scoop...an original story that no other newspaper has...or some sort of embarrassing photograph of a celebrity..taken in secret. In my personal opinion, there should be a law that keeps anyones privacy from the camera. But that's the way of the commercial world I suppose and we all have to accept it...or do we?
Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:11 PM

It was a private party, not a public occasion. In my book that makes it absolutely bugger-all to do with anyone else. If Joe Soap from Somewhereville had done it we'd never have heard about it, but those shitty-arsewipe so-called 'journalists' are so bone-idle and bereft of talent or imagination that they're incapable of finding or recognising a real 'story', so they take the easy option of following poor buggers like him around hoping he'll drop a bollock so they can enrich themselves by crucifying him. Leave him alone, he's just a kid being a kid - we all had bad taste when we were kids, didn't we? I remember going through a phase of drawing swastikas all over the covers of my school and college books, holding my comb under my nose and goose-stepping around the place 'Heil-Hitlering' and thinking I was really clever, but eventually I grew up and realised I'd been behaving like a shit. He'll grow up too, if he's given some peace and time to do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Gervase
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:19 PM

This wasn't a pap snap - this was a picture taken on a chuckaway camera by one of his mates at the party!
Still a prat, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:21 PM

Even worse - a treacherous twat.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: frogprince
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:28 PM

I've been waiting for "for the other shoe to drop"; that is, for the one detail that would put this in some perspective. If the party had an explicit "bad taste" theme, that is it. The young man should have realized that, in his position, it wasn't really a "cool move"; but talk of keeping someone out of the army because he wore the wrong distasteful costume to a party with a "bad taste" theme is pitiful.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:30 PM

I'm guessing we'll be seeing a lot more outrageous, attention-getting behavior from Prince Harry. Just think about how invisible he must feel living in the shadows of so many prominent people. He doesn't look much like his mother, who casts an enormous shadow (so he can't have her glory-by-association as his brother does), and he isn't likely to ever become King, as his father may be, and his brother William is. He's the perfect candidate for perpetual "bad boy".

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:38 PM

What a complete moron he is and the same for those making some kind of excuse for this idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Les from Hull
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:41 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:46 PM

Martin, I don't know if you are refering to my post when you say "making excuse". But if you are, I am doing no such thing. What I am doing is making a prediction.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:51 PM

I predict that you will always live in a trailer and never work and contribute much of anything to the greater American society.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:57 PM

We're all capable of stupidity sometimes Martin - doesn't make us worthless, just 'occasionally stupid'. Words like 'glasshouses' and 'stones' should be borne in mind by those who would seek to damn completely a young man who occasionally behaves foolishly. 'Let he who is without blemish cast the first stone' as The Man said.

And maybe those of us who live in the mellifluous warmth and comfort of Anonimity (i.e. you, me and 99.99999999999% of the world's population) have no real concept of what it is to spend ones life under an extremely public microscope. One is whom one is is simply by accident - there's no justification for crucifixion of the famous, simply because of the fact of their fame, by the anonymous. It's a vicious and cowardly act.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:59 PM

Martin you are a worthless, scumsucking, psychopath and I know who you are and you have always been a psychopath since you first showed up here. Why not walk out in front of a bus and improve the world?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:59 PM

One too many 'is'-es in there, but you know what I mean!
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:01 PM

Not his finest hour. Possibly he needs some attention. Possibly he didn't have his thinking cap on. He's only 20 (I think) and there's them in that family that take a while to mature.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:01 PM

And 'GUEST' absolutely wasn't me.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:02 PM

Well, your prediction would be wrong then, Martin.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:32 PM

The funniest thing about this was hearing it on the radio just as I woke up, and the time it took me to realize they weren't talking about Harry POTTER!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Grab
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:40 PM

Good job no-one got photos of the "Sound of Music" party in Cambridge last year, where apparently there were a dozen or so people (male and female) in SS uniforms goose-stepping down the centre of town!

Bit of a silly thing for Harry to do though, bcos it clearly isn't in context for the party.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:44 PM

again - why wouldn't it be in context for the party - as the nazies were quite active in the colonies? or presumed to be - judging by novels, movies, etc?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:44 PM

It was clearly in bad taste, especially in the run-up to holocaust memorial day on the 27th of this month, which the Royal Family will be taking a leading role in commemorating."

One can only hope that our Harry will now to be seen as playing a major part in this. The huge volume of negative publicity generated by his ill-advised choice of costume can then result in a lot of positive publicity being focused on this event

Hopefully ensuring that other young folk of Harry's generation will be better informed than he was.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Gervase
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:44 PM

Well, he takes after his father. Always thought Hewitt was a Grade-A w*nker.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: *Laura*
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:46 PM

*he isn't likely to ever become king*

I would have thought that was a relief to be honest!
He probably did it on purpose bacause he knew everyone would have a reaction.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:47 PM

His father - you mean the Kensington Palace milkman?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 02:00 PM

I thought that had all died a death... he looks more like his uncle Althorp (pronounced prat) than he does any other candidate....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 02:16 PM

You mean Diana and her brother? That's gross!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Ooh-Aah2
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 02:42 PM

I had no idea that the theme of the party was 'bad taste' - this cools down my initial intense anger somewhat. Still, he should have known a lot better. The only person who can dress up as a Nazi to take the piss is Charlie Chaplin.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 02:46 PM

My prediction is right.

OK, Guest you know who I am. I'm really, really impressed.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:13 PM

We should all rally around the British Royal Family in their hour of need. I'm sure they'll appreciate our total support during this 'major' crisis. Let's start an appeal fund of some sort. There must be some money left in our pockets .....................

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:24 PM

Surely just following in the footsteps of dear great great Ucle teddy and Aunty Walace those well known British Nazis- I feel sorry for the poor valet who let him out of Clarence House in the clobber in the first place probably an ex vaet now -surely someone might have suggested it was in poor taste? his elder brother for example?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:29 PM

Martin, nothing you say is ever right. That's not about to change now.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:35 PM

In fact I believe it was supposed to be a Rommel Afrika Korps uniform.

Taking the piss out of the Nazis by dressing up in one of their comical uniforms has been done before often enough. It's generally understood as an expression of contempt rather than admiration.

However the whole idea of a Home and Colonial party with an African theme seems a bit distasteful, largely because it's only too likely to be seen as an expression of nostalgia rather than contempt.

Maybe he'd have done better to dress up as someone from the North American Colonies.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:45 PM

Poor taste. Prince of the realm.
You don't often see those two concepts side by side, do you?

Not a hanging offense, I wouldn't have thought.

I really don't see why the royals are so interesting. Is it really front page news that Harry dresses up fancy to go to a fancy dress party? Is it really worthy of a thread on Mudcat?
I guess it is, but I can't see the value in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 04:07 PM

CarolC, it's more like "Everything you know is Wrong."

Guest, Johm O'Lennaine, perhaps the farting in public thread has more value to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 04:45 PM

I don't know if Harry had the wit to think it through in these terms, but the Afrika Korps uniform is a whole lot less offensive to me than an SS or Gestapo uniform would have been. But even if he'd worn one of the latter, I'd have cut him some slack. As Johnny said, it was just a folly of youth. (I think Johnny's off course with the privacy argument though - we're surely to know anything that points to the mentality of the guy who is third in line to our head of state.) To add to McG's point, is it really so much more offensive to wear a swastika at a fancy-dress party than to do so in a Brit-com ('Allo 'Allo)?

Let's remember we have Mudcatters (including one of Harry's critics above) who "see the point" of fascists like the British National Party. That is surely a good bit harder to understand than Harry's lapse. Anyway, if the escapade has brought the British Republic one step nearer, we should welcome it with open arms.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Megan L
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 04:46 PM

20 hm would the goodie two shoes who hadent done something idiotic at that age please stand up.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 05:04 PM

Good point, Martin. I should have said that too. Everything you know is wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 05:07 PM

No, much (not everything) I know is right.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: MuddleC
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 05:15 PM

Uniforms are funny things, if I'd have worn my Royal Navy Uniform as 'fancy-dress' (costume party), Id have been on a charge 'for bringing disrespect' to Her Majesty's Uniform, been fined money and given extra duties (cleaning/polishing mostly)....
ergo, wearing any 'Official' uniform to such a party is deemed to be showing disrespect to that particular uniform.

it's good that this uniform is only fit for costume parties, as for 'arry, he's just a spolit oik

now, your average party goer would be wearing an obvious homemade/rented 'mock'up', but borrowing one from P.Mike's of Kent was a no-no, unless it was covered in vomit of course....

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 05:16 PM

Could be worse- his grandad could have been a Nazi collaborator---
like George W. Bush's.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 05:42 PM

"However the whole idea of a Home and Colonial party with an African theme seems a bit distasteful, largely because it's only too likely to be seen as an expression of nostalgia rather than contempt."

I found the "theme" to be quite offensive. As to the "forgive him he is only a tender 20..." BULLSHIT! He is third in line to the British throne. NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO TELL HIM NOT TO DO SOMETHING THIS STUPID!!!

The ONLY reason why this matters is because of his official position. As others have said, people do wear these sorts of costumes all the time. There is the "Producers" thing, and many other examples of Nazi uniforms being worn in theatrical and other sorts of settings. Many would find them to be in bad taste, many wouldn't. But no one would suggest it not be allowed.

Harry doesn't have those luxuries of the average Joe though, and therein lies the difference. He is held to a different standard, and should be. Should he be punished by not being allowed into Sandhurst? No. Should he be making his own public apology in a press conference? Yes, at the very least.

And I don't think the Wiesenthal Center's suggestion that he have a trip to Auschwitz is out of the question, though I wouldn't mar the 60th anniversary of it's liberation with Prince Harry at this point. That would be a great affront to the survivors and families of victims of Auschwitz. But certainly, a private trip there by Harry with someone from the Center as his guide might work as a good antidote to his idiocy, and possibly prevent him from doing something this offensively bad next time.

I'm in agreement with CarolC. There will definitely be a next time with this eejit.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 05:54 PM

The combined IQ of his parents pre-determined his intellect. For all his wealth and priviledge he doesn't possess the savvy of a cabbage. If he had to get a bus to the party he may have thought twice about his dress sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 05:56 PM

Good idea Guest 5:54! In fact, let that be his punishment! Ride the bus in his costume with no bodyguards!

Bloody brilliant.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 06:00 PM

And here is my advice to the disenfranchised British subjects:

Harry Demonstrates Military Credentials

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 07:13 PM

Now the tsunami is out of the way everyone can get back to the really important stuff like this.

This hyped up trivia really is the lead story in so-called serious papers...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: jacqui.c
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 07:25 PM

Strange how his aunt at roughly the same age managed to cause a bit of a scandal with her affair with Peter Townsend. He appears to be following in Margaret's footsteps to some degree, with the drinking and smoking as well. Maybe it's something to do with being the 'spare'. I doubt whether his home life has really been well structured for years and get the impression that his father has other things taking his attention. Hopefully Army training should help him grow up, being subject to proper discipline and rules won't do him any harm.

Unfortunately it seems that memories of the Holocaust are growing dim with age - maybe films such as Schindler's List should be compulsory viewing in school, as part of the sylabus. A visit to Auschwitz might be a sobering occasion, particularly if in the company of a survivor of the camps, if one can be found with compassion enough to agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 07:33 PM

Hmm, tough call for Gibson - hates the English, hates royals, is a member of the lunatic right....really difficult.

Humour has to walk the line of shock, because laughter is a defence mechanism. An error of judgment is not a hanging matter.   I don't like the little prat, but steady the buffs. Chill.

Does one feel a hint that to say the reaction is an over-reaction might be catechised as anti-semitic?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 07:40 PM

Hm I was driving home tonight listening to a phone in. All the over 60's were really angry about Harry - I suppose because the war wasn't just something that took place on the cinema screen, or on the history channel. I don't think the Afrika Corps uniform would be any more acceptable to somebody who lost their Dad or husband or brother to Rommel' s particular brand of genius.

It seems utterly incredible that Harry didn't have someone to advise him against this - given the strength of feeling that still exists.Kids are just SO bloody daft......

its not just old people either, I remember Alexei Sayle saying in an interview he couldn't bring himself to watch Allo Allo, because when it comes to the Nazis, his sense of humour just goes missing.

Having a royal family is a pretty crap idea, but if we have them they can't dress up as Nazis - whatever the occasion. Perhaps we need to have notices hung up in Buckingham Palace and Sandringham:-

DRESSING AS A NAZI IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN. FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS RULE MAY LEAD TO IMMEDIATE DISMISSAL.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 07:47 PM

Why didn't he just go to the fancy dress party as a prince?
surely he must have a princes uniform kicking about the house somewhere?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 07:56 PM

Or as a chimp. Or as that colonial George Bush. Or both at the same time, Steve Bell style...

The funny thing is, when his Dad went along with his lady friend to see "The Producers" a few weeks ago, the musical full of people dressed up in cod-Nazi gear, noone seems to have seen that as worthy of protest.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 08:14 PM

For those who "enjoy" the Bush Colonial connection.

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushwhiskey.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 08:17 PM

Poppagator said it- a tempest in a teapot. The press characterizing a North Africa Corps uniform as a Nazi uniform is wrong to start with. Most German soldiers were in the war because they had to be- much like our side.

During the war I was stationed at a camp which also held a German Prisoner of War stockade. Most of those held there were from the North Africa Corps. Good men, some of whom came back after the war and became U. S. and Canadian citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 09:37 PM

What was so bad about "Rommel's particular brand of genius" weelittledrummer? What if his soldiers killed people, and maybe committed a few war crimes? Isn't that what soldiers are supposed to do? Can you really see no difference between a squaddie in Africa and a death-camp commandent in Poland?

I've spent a fair amount of time helping to document genocide, and I know a few WW2 survivors from eastern Europe and the Balkans. I would also be delighted to see the United Kingdom become a republic. But even with this double-edged agenda, I can't get worked up about the present trivial episode. I'd put the reaction against it on a par with trying to stifle the works of Wagner. There are more important things to worry about.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: dianavan
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 10:42 PM

He's a kid. He's acting out in a way that will embarrass his family. Thats the point. I'm sure we will not see the last of this brat. It was an arrogant thing to do and a way of thumbing his nose to the world. He and Bush would probably understand each other quite well.

Maybe they should send Billy Graham to have a little talk with him.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 11:20 PM

One point was raised by a couple of commentators on CNN, where did he get the costume/uniform? One of the commentators was English and claimed that that type of uniform and especially the swastika armband would not be something one could rent. So did it take princely measures to come up with?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 05:38 AM

Well, a quick Google search showed a very large number of fancy dress rental shops in the UK where you could hire a Nazi uniform.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 07:46 AM

This rather brings us back to the other issue.

One can well-understand why this is big new for the media but the point posed in the original post of this thread was about the general wisdom of anybody dressing-up as anybody else for fun.

For in these PC days - folk have recently written in here and objected to folk dressing-uo in mummers plays (for fun and tradition) as being offensive to Afro-Americans and have seriously accused folk who defend this dressing-up of being racist.

If the cast of a west-end play (and film) and of a long-running UK TV series can dress-up in these uniforms and if all the impressionists of Hitler are OK and actors like John Clesse - goose-stepping around in Fawlty Towers are funny - why is anybody dressing-up in any costume, for fun not seen and excused in the same way?

Should fancy dress, costume or themed party's - be encouraged or discouraged because of the risk of upsetting someone? Or is this simply a natter of personal taste - and be left to this?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 08:29 AM

He is third in line to the British throne. NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO TELL HIM NOT TO DO SOMETHING THIS STUPID!!!

gee, since when did being born royal automatically confer the wisdom of the ages upon a person? Royals - just like any other person - have to learn through experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Bill the Collie
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 09:14 AM

Man on Radio 5 Live(who got shot down in first Iraq War) was ranting that it was all a JOKE.
I asked him who was laughing.
I still await his reply.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Once Famous
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 10:26 AM

Hey Richard Bridge, maybe you can take him to one of your lawyer orgies and just let him wear his armband.

Wrong on all points mentioned, counselor.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 10:33 AM

"gee, since when did being born royal automatically confer the wisdom of the ages upon a person? Royals - just like any other person - have to learn through experience."

Again, bullshit. Children of royals and children of politicians and children of clergy SHOULD be held to higher standards, because their parents have put themselves in positions of authority over the rest of us. By consciously choosing to put one's self in that position of authority, one has an obligation to live as an example to others.

Of course history is littered with twits like Harry and William. It just shows how badly they have been raised. And is one more thing, as if another were needed, to argue for an immediate conversion of the British so-called "constitutional" monarchy to a legitimate republic.

Kick the royal whores off the payroll. This doesn't just make the Windsors look like fools, this is yet another black eye for the Brits. Britain exports the lager louts and lads around to all the colonies--one good example for today is Sir Mark--while at home, the imperialista youth play Colonial and Native dress up.

If the British themselves don't know what is wrong with the picture, then they clearly don't get why they are still more universally loathed than even the Americans. Which isn't easy these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,freddie starr
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 11:09 AM

Wondered where it had gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 11:25 AM

Why on earth should anyone be surprised? The kid has proven himself on more than one occasion to be just that- a Kid who's still pretty thick and insensitive. He looks to be taking after his foot-in-the-mouth Royal Granddad, so again, why is this earth-shattering news which has knocked REAL news off the front pages here in the UK for 2 days??

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 11:28 AM

Mountains and molehills. Glasshouses and stones. I bet Harry wishes he was as perfect as you feckin' lot. Not.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Grab
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 11:45 AM

Plenty of fake uniforms at any costume hire shop, robo. Whoever that commentator was, he's talking crap.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 11:54 AM

Ok...can someone please tell me how Prince Harry's age excuses him? I think any reasonably intellegent ten year old could work out that dressing up as a fascist is a Bad Idea...and Harry is twenty. He's an adult, and an adult (especially one in his position) should be expected to know what is appropriate behaviour, and be able to take responsibility for their actions. Everyone can make mistakes, at any age...but they should make amends for them. In this case that means a simple apology. Let's see if he's got the balls to do it.

Anyway, a Home and Colonial themed party? Good grief...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 11:59 AM

My dept shares a building with History of Art. Turns out that it was the birthday party of one of their students where this all took place. History of Art people move in entirely different circles to us Archaeology ones...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Maija
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 12:03 PM

I guess all PR is indeed good PR, eh...?

I don't think I'll dress up as a fascist for the Karneval here, though. I don't need the PR :p

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 12:30 PM

Now is anyone seriously suggesting that Harry, despite his lack of years and before he finally left for this party with his Nazi armband - was not fully aware of the possible effects of his actions?

I suggest that he was not only fully aware and would have ignored all of those who would have advised him that his choice of costume was not a good one. But that the effect of this action was the whole reason he chose such a costume. For like most of us - at this age - he is not really concerned with what anyone thinks - except the thoughts, opinion and approval of those who matter to him.

I am sure that he thought that this was a jolly daring prank - to show his chums (espcially his army chums) just what a totally good egg he was.

The best outcome of all this now now would be for him to take a major part with the Queen, in the coming Holocaust Memorial Day on the 27 January. They do say that actions speak louder than words and the resulting publicity from this positive move, can only benefit everone - in the long run.

If other young folk like Harry think that this armband is only about The Producers, false moustaches and silly walks - this will be a good opportunity to show them and remind us - exactly what it is all about.

Many of us would prefer not to know - many of us would prefer not to be reminded and some of us are determined to try and convince the rest that none of it happened............

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: bertie the bolshie
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 12:32 PM

And you think it was fancy dress.. its their normal uniform.. bloody fascists the lot of them.. need the Romanoff solution. Bloody good chap that Lenin and his mates.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: frogprince
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 12:38 PM

To the last Guest:
"Children of royals and children of politicians and children of clergy SHOULD be held to higher standards, because their parents have put themselves in positions of authority over the rest of us."
"Bullshit" back at you. The children of royals, politicians, clergy, plumbers, truck drivers, and taxidermists should be taught to behave with common decency and consideration for others; they should then be held responsible to the degree appropriate for their age.
"The sins of the fathers shall not be visited on the children" (an approximate quote from memory, but representing one of the prophets fairly). Neither should the social or political position of any parent be put on any developing child like a straightjacket.
This has nothing to do with any defence of the prince, who is easily old enough to know better.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 12:51 PM

Many of us would prefer not to know - many of us would prefer not to be reminded and some of us are determined to try and convince the rest that none of it happened............

so - what you are saying is that the painful shameful things in the past should be ignored, disregarded and not taught to children?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 01:03 PM

No I am sure that from the rest of my post - it was very clear that I was saying the complete opposite.......

But it would appear that this particular child's education did not consist of such things.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 01:22 PM

Ever ventured into your favourite local watering hole for a drink and a friendly game of pool on a Hallowe'en night - wearing a Ku Klux Klan costume? Well I did once, and ONLY once.

When I was about 20 years old.

10 minutes in that bar was all I required to fully undertand just how misguided that choice of costume really was. I think the realization dawned just as I ripped off the headpiece, begging the three or four beefy beer-drinkers who'd backed me into a corner not to kill me.

Before that I'd been having great fun, enjoying the complete anonymity afforded by that costume as I presented myself to one acquaintance after another, without a hint of recognition. Mind you, the depth of hatred in their eyes as they turned away had started to unnerve me a bit ...

Now, does committing this crime of costume rank me with the morons, the idiots, the ill-bred, poorly educated ilk of Prince Harry? Well, maybe.   But I do think the incident was more due to the temporary insanity of youth, ignorance and inexperience. After all, the 'friend' who'd persuaded me to wear that (or rather, his!) costume had arranged to meet me at that bar - and stood me up! grrrrrrrr And beyond some vague notion about racism and lynchings gleaned in some far-off high school history class, I had no idea of what the Ku Klux Klan really was.

I did need some education, and I got it - and so will the Prince(s) Royale, by the looks of things.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: greg stephens
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 01:25 PM

Young man acts like silly twat. Shock horror, it's scarcely credible is it. Meanwhile, in Sumatra, Iraq, Sudan etc etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 01:32 PM

In answer to Pete K

A couple of years ago I used to do a gig round Birmingham - all the old folks places.

One old guy was ex 8th army. After the gig, which always involved me singing Lily Marlene (if I left it out - it got requested) he would tell me about the time his best friend was decapitated by some mishap involving lid of his tank. i did the gig every month for at least a year and the story never varied.

He had nothing. his point of view was doubtless unimportant, and maybe he missed the clarity of your insight into the north africa campaign. but he gave everything bloody thing he had for this country, including his best friend.

what I was saying is that this radio phone in that heard last night on radio derby, reminded me that this guy and thousands like him don't to want to see Prince Harry dressed up in any kind of nazi uniform.

and the silly young sod should respect that. and we should take that generation's point of view , who did so much for us, very seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Megan L
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 02:16 PM

Frofprince thanks for making the point much more succinctly than i could have. I went through years of hell and my father was only the local postie everybody but everybody thought they could tell you what to do and how you should live. many the time i wish i had been brave enough to tell them where to get of perhaps i should start now.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 02:24 PM

frogprince, I might agree with you if it were the father committing the sins...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 02:28 PM

Does anyone suppose there will ever be a Brit royal that denounces the monarchy and demands a republic?

Anyone of these royal leeches could have done the right thing, now couldn't they?

Brits just don't seem to understand--those of us with legitimate constitutional republics like the US & France, would simply never tolerate this sort of appalling shit--not the Nazi costume OR the "Colonials and Natives" party.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: greg stephens
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 02:35 PM

You're just so right, GUEST. I really wish we could have US or French style government in Britain, instead of the outmoded old system we run here. Things would start looking up pretty soon, I'll bet!!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 02:45 PM

the usual greg stephens distortion of what was said...

no one suggested that britain adopt the french or us form of governance. i believe the suggestion is that britain leap forward out of it's 19th century mindset and join the rest of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 02:46 PM

Blissfully Ignorant, I'm afraid that you are just that, if this comment of yours is anything to go on: I think any reasonably intellegent ten year old could work out that dressing up as a fascist is a Bad Idea. I was blissfully ignorant myself, on the same point, but a UK poll has just disclosed that for 60 per cent of people under 20, the word "Auschwitz" means virtually nothing. Thanks, ironically, to Harry that might change.

The guy Robomatic heard suggesting that Nazi insignia is not readily available in the UK may have been confusing the UK with certain European countries, in which displaying and trading such stuff is illegal. Until recently this was the case in France, for instance. I don't know whether it is still.

weelittledrummer, take care how far you generalise from one anecdote, especially one that has little relevance. On the front page of today's (London) Independent, a British veteran recalled people going into London in Nazi uniform during WW2 "for a bet". And when he went into Berlin in 1946 he wore an SS shirt. On the specific point about Rommel's army, his words exactly matched the sentiment of mine in an earlier post. He said he and his comrades never regarded Rommel's troops as Nazis - just as fellow soldiers like themselves. "We killed them, just so that they didn't kill us."

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 03:09 PM

Well, can you imagine? This is what his *friends* (one of Harry's longest-standing friends and a family friend of Prince Charles, according to the Evening Standard) are being quoted as saying about him in the wake of scandal:

""He is not a bright chap. You have to be seriously academically challenged to come away from Eton with one A-level...He is not a bad lad, but he is getting wilder and wilder. This was not malicious, but it was foolish. He needs to get a grip. He has to realise the reality of his position."

It emerged that Harry hired his costume at a shop close to Highgrove, Maud's Cotswold Costumes, popular with the young royals and their set.

Among the other outfits which were said to have caught the prince's eye was the uniform of an SS officer.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: gnu
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 03:56 PM

What was the House of Windsor before it was the House of Windsor... any historians out there ? Don't shoot !

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 02:54 AM

what I was saying is that this radio phone in that heard last night on radio derby, reminded me that this guy and thousands like him don't to want to see Prince Harry dressed up in any kind of nazi uniform

I suspect that he knew this and this was exactly why he chose to wear one to impress his friends. The other equally worrying aspect is that there are some other people who would be estatic that he did choose to dress-up like this.

These are the one's who are trying to re-write history and convince the world that certain things - did not happen. The point is well-made that Harry in generating this publicity has perhaps ensured that some others in his age-group who are possibly more sensible - will (coming-up to the 27 January) now learn the true implication of what this uniform stood for and resulted in.

Bringing well-needed attention to this - may not have been the young fools intention but he possibly deserves our thanks anyway. Who says our young royals serve no purpose?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Bill the Collie
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 03:23 AM

His brother William helped him choose the uniform.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 03:30 AM

Prince Heinrich von Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (for it is he) can wear what the hell he likes. The anti-royalist faction can take a running jump. Given the cable TV Documentary channels obsession with WW2, I'm surprised that brown shirt and swastika armband are not considered de rigeur everywhere.

A non-story obsessing non-people.

Regards
Adolf Elizabeth Schickelgruber

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 06:37 AM

If Diana were still alive this would not have happened!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 08:10 AM

In answer to gnu's question (and correcting the penultimate guest) the royals belonged to the house of Saxe-Coberg-Gotha before Windsor, to which they still belong now. Previous name changes, as might be expected, reflected changes in the head of the royal household. But the adoption of "Windsor" was merely a PR stunt necessitated by WW1 - the new name being taken from the town of Windsor, where they have one of their castles. The royals continue to live under this British-sounding name, although in fact they are now Mountbattens - Mountbatten being an anglicising of Battenburg, the family name of Prince Philip.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 11:54 AM

Saxe-Coberg-Gotha is a bit of a mouthful for a cake. Battenburg is lightly better.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 12:36 PM

So... fair prince is quite the ham... burger. (Sorry; at least I try.) Now, does anyone know where the House of Hapsburg (spelling please ? Hapsburgh, Haapsburg, ??) fits in here ?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 12:43 PM

Wolves in sheep's clothing worry me a whole lot more than silly young sheep caught wearing wolve's clothing....

That's why I have been ignoring this thread.

It baffles me how people obsess over blatantly obvious symbols (such as the swastika), symbols which have absolutely NO power other than what people are willing to give them in their own minds, while missing the far more dangerous things that parade by us daily under the mask of familiar, acceptable conventionality.

We live in a society that calls people "terrorists" when they kill 3 people or 3,000 people, while NOT wearing a national uniform. At the same time those who ARE wearing a national uniform invade whole countries, drop bombs from B-52's, and cause the deaths of 10's or 100's of thousands, and the ruination of whole societies...but are NOT called "terrorists".

A politician, George Bush, wraps the American flag around himself and launches illegal wars of aggression, like Hitler did. Another politician, Tony Blair, ignores the will of his own public, betrays his own party, and helps assist in those wars of aggression. They both wear the right clothes, say the right-sounding patriotic stuff, and would certainly not be seen wearing a Nazi uniform. But...they are far more dangerous than Prince Harry at his costume party.

It seems that people will insist on being mesmerized by superficial appearances, though. I guess that's because it doesn't require much effort or thought to perceive the superficial.

I wonder at what point in history we will arrive at the moment when Nazi uniforms ARE finally allowable at a costume party, like any other historical regalia? And...could one dress up as a Nazi in order to make fun OF Nazis? Would that be possible? I don't see why not. Spanish Inquistion getups are allowable now. You can dress up as one of Attilla's Huns now. You can dress up as a conquering Roman Centurion now.

Where is the qualitative difference? When did society decide that it was no longer unacceptable to be dressed as a Hun or a pirate or an Inquisitor at a costume party? One wonders. These obsessions come and go.

I'll say this for Harry, though. He must have a real talent for making foolish decisions and getting himself in hot water. But then, he IS under a microscope all the time, isn't he?

(The Afrika Korps, by the way, was a very courageous fighting force that simply happened to have the bad luck to be under a very bad government and on the losing end in a very big war. Their uniform is not synonymous with evil, except to those who cannot give up old hatreds, but must forever chew on them like a dog chewing savagely on a familiar, but very old bone.)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 02:55 PM

Amen Little Hawk.

Incidentally folks, being in the German armed forces during the Hitlerian years did not make anyone 'a Nazi'. Only party members were 'Nazis'. Some members of the German military were Nazis, many weren't.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: kendall
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 03:19 PM

If there is something funny about the Nazis, it escapes me.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 03:25 PM

Then you have not seen Charlie Chaplin make fun of Adolf Hitler in "The Great Dictator", have you? And perhaps you have not heard the song "Und ven der fuehrer says, ve iss de master race...ve heil! heil! right in der fuehrer's face!" (by Spike Jones, was it?)

One of the best ways possible to fight an oppressive force like Naziism is to make fun of its more ludicrous aspects.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Com Seangan
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 03:40 PM

This politically correct thing is gone around the bend. Good for Prince Harry. By dressing as a Nazi - that didn't mean that he approved of their tactics. Give us a break !!

My young fella dressed as Osama Bin Laden at his College Ball and took the house down. Young people have a sense of balance as well as a sense of humour. And come to think of (merely from a sartorial point of view, of course) the Nazi uniform was quite smart.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 03:52 PM

Yes, and don't forget this also...young people have usually not yet become as afraid as older people, when it comes to playing with unsettling outer images. It would be scary if a whole generation of teenagers were so afraid to express themselves that they did not dare to do this sort of thing now and then for fear of reprisal.

There was a generation of young Germans like that in 1933-45. They would not have dared to step outside the officially approved boundaries of dress and behaviour, would they? That's what happens in societies that are ruled by fear, and its handmaiden, extreme political correctness.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Raedwulf
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 04:32 PM

*Bzzzt!* Actually, Hawk, that's not even a factor in the rise of Nazism. Try "The Coming of the Third Reich" by Richard Evans. Fear, perhaps. Youth had nothing to do with it. The rise of Hitler is much more complex than that.

But this entire thread is bollocks. So Harry is 20 & an idiot? Well that's not a capital crime is it? I know 40+ year olds that are still no more than 15 in their heads (though they wouldn't admit it). Harry's crime? Getting caught!!

He won't make the same mistake twice, because he won't be allowed to. I probably made a given mistake more than once, cos I wasn't important. How many of you f***ing puritans never made a mistake more than once, eh?

Who said 20 was an adult? When I was 20, most of the 20 year olds I knew were still kids. I live in a glasshouse. I'd rather put clothes on, than throw stones... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 04:41 PM

Little Hawk, your first post above was well worth the wait.

Gnu, for Hapsburg (sometimes "Habsburg") think Austro-Hungarian Empire. (That was me who answered your earlier question at 8.10am - as an anonymous guest because I'd crept in the back way while Mudcat proper was down.)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 05:18 PM

Well said, Raedwulf. It's the English press that waits like a vulture for this sort of thing. They love it. As to what were the biggest factors in the rise of Naziism...I'd say it was fear, primarily. That, and a sense of having been done wrong by the Treaty of Versailles. So, fear, and a desire to "get even" and right assumed wrongs. The Nazis were a very self-righteous and moralistic bunch in their own peculiar way, and they certainly thought they were acting in the best interests of Germany. Clearly, they were not, though! In fact, you can underline that.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 06:27 PM

I've spent a fair amount of time helping to document genocide, and I know a few WW2 survivors from eastern Europe and the Balkans.

Documenting isn't being there. Being a victim of racial abuse and violent behavior would give you a whole different outlook on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Lanfranc
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 07:02 PM

... especially if you were held prisoner in Guantanamo Bay or Abu Ghraib.

Alan
(apologies for thread creep, but "I was obeying orders" seems to be the link.)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 10:56 PM

It isn't about his age. It is about his position as heir to the British throne, and the international ramifications of such a high public political figure behaving badly.

If he was 40 would you all feel better about this?

The point isn't his age, and the point isn't that the rest of us can do it. The point is, he is held to a different standard because of his position.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 11:06 PM

From today's Independent:

Harry's 'racist and bigoted' set must be curbed, Charles told
Top aide warned Prince over antics of friends. Howard stands firm on demand for full apology
By Francis Elliott, Deputy Political Editor
16 January 2005


The Prince of Wales has been warned by one of his senior advisers that he must act urgently to separate his sons from a "social scene that thinks racism and bigotry quite funny", The Independent on Sunday has learned.

Prince Charles was told that his sons' media image has become a "bad joke" in the wake of pictures showing Prince Harry wearing Nazi insignia. The senior adviser said: "There has been this attempt to portray them as symbols of modern Britain, with charity work and so on, which just makes people who actually know them laugh. They are part of a social scene which thinks racism and bigotry quite funny."

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 01:20 AM

I have similar sartorical acqutranments - family heirloms - There is never a stir at family picknics ..... but I am not a prince.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 01:26 AM

Clothes make the man ..... but I am not a man.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Ooh-Aah2
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 03:36 PM

Little Hawk has injected some welcome reality into this debate, along with Strollin' Johnny. The stupid things I did at 20 still make me blush - luckily I had no cameras pointed at me at the time. (I am now 33). The usual republican agenda of right-wing Rupert Murdoch owned newspapers shines through this whle beat up. The scarcely-disguised glee and holier-than thou attitude of republicans on this thread is just as nauseating, and I'm obliged to someone (probably one of the numerous anonymous GUESTS) looking forward to the day when we are a wonderful republic, 'like France and America'. Howls of scornful laughter Bruce!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,ButterflyJulia
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 11:27 PM

Indeed Ooh-Aah2 but you were not third in line to the throne...think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: musicmick
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 12:22 AM

If the British and their junior partners in the United Kingdom choose to maintain the lives to which their special chosen few have become accostumed, it is not for we mere former colonists to disapprove. It is, after all, their way of pretending that, first, their empire lives on in the continuity of their monarchy and, second, that their moral superiority is as class based and pristine as ever. Thus, the nation that invented the word "nigger" is entitled to lecture the world on the subject of human rights. The nation that looted the the national treasures of countless lands to enrich the homes and museums of their upper classes is emboldened to preach anti-colonialism.
None of this is to suggest that the British are the essence of evil. No student of history would claim that distinction for any one people. Power is so corrupting that there has never been a blameless dominating people. I am more than willing to let byegones (Irish, African, American, Indian, Chinese and God knows homay others) be long gones if you guys will get the hell off your high horses and quit trying to sound like Mother Theresas. I mean national pride is all well and good but, if you must spout, have the sekhel to do it quietly. The fact is that everybody's shit stinks and yours is pretty high up on the old reek-o-meter.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 02:05 AM

It is with people - as it is with nations.

That they make mistakes is a fact. If they are prepared to learn from these mistakes - there is some hope.

There is little hope if those who are about to make the same mistakes (or are already making them) are not prepared to listen to the voice of experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 04:22 AM

One thing Harry has done is to enable CarolC and Martin Gibson to continue there shagging, good luck to you both, are plans going well for the marriage?

Don't be shy you can tell us you know, who prefers to be on top?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Trevor
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 05:28 AM

Musicmic - and the Americans are free from Blame, land of the free my arse, a country so up its own arse it forgets theres a whole world out there. I'm sure the slave trade lasted a lot longer in your neck of the woods than it did in ours. You seem to be generalising aka making rascist remarks about the British on the act of one Prince - so in the words of Churchill FUCK YOU!!!!!!

Trevor of Hull (Birthplace of the abolitionist William Wilberforce)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 09:48 AM

You can say fuck you to the Americans, and try and shift blame westward all you want, it isn't going to do you or Britain a bloody bit of good.

The royals' Nazi debacle just isn't much of a story in the US. Unlike Europe...

So Trevor, how does it feel to be the pariah of Europe?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,trevor
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 09:56 AM

i repeat FUCK YOU! Your country is hardly a shining example of race relations, so before you start throwing stones check your house isn't made of glass built by the hands of your second class citizens

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 10:02 AM

Yeah but at least we don't need Britain for anything, least of all for protection from the rest of the world.

Churchill was a fat fuck.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,trevor
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 10:04 AM

Roosevelt was a delaying coward like a man who uses guest anonymous

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 10:08 AM

That's nice, Trevor dear. Still doesn't change the fact the royals keep dragging Britain down and back into the good old bad days of Britain's worst colonial and imperial excesses though, does it?

Or change the fact that while Q. Lizzie is atoning for the sins of her family at the Auschwitz commemoration, all of Europe will be debating the need to innoculate itself against British racism and self-perpetuating ignorance.

Now run off down the pub to have a lager with yer louts, Trevor. There's a good man.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,trevor
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 10:16 AM

Again generalising, GUEST if that is you real name, I have no love of the royals no more than you do FUCKWEED!

Though if Europe whats to get on their high horse about British NAZIS - aka GERMAN HISTORY, GERMAN HISTORY SYMPATHISERS, the rise of NEO-Nazi organisations on mainland europe then keep digging MR.CUNT-FEATURES, I shall be visiting the pub, drinking good english ale with my more than worthy countryman.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,FUCKWEED
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 10:21 AM

Ah, so it's only you and your lone countryman, is it? I'm not surprised.

The point that Germany is doing light years more to distance and innoculate itself from it's criminal past than Britain ever will, apparently is beyond your comprehension.

At least Germany and France have a tradition of trying to improve themselves when it comes to racism, bigotry, and discrimination.   Good Anglos like yourself and your countryman, on the other hand, seem to revel in it.

Make sure you keep up with the drink there Trevor boy, you wouldn't want to lose your and your countryman's hard earned status as Europe's meanest drunks, and most alcoholic society, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,trevor
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 10:25 AM

If you would be so brave to reveal your own nationality Mr.Rascist

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 10:35 AM

Oh, so arguing that Brits are exhibiting some loathsome racism in their "no big deal" defense of their royal family's behavior in this debacle makes one a racist, does it?

You are exhibiting an insensitivity, pig ignorance, and arrogance every bit as offensive as your royal prince's there, Sir Trevor.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,trevor
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 10:42 AM

Are all British people defending his actions, no. It seems you are generalising once again. I am neither pig-ignorant, rascist, arrogant. The BRITS are not lager-swilling nazi thugs. Some British people are!!! Like Germany, France, Austria, USA, and the rest. In fact in light of the tsunami disaster, the British people (IN MAJORITY) proved themselves a compassionate, generous bunch a bastards. Do not tar a nation due to a miniscule minority, first look closer to home - that is why sir "GUEST" you are a rascist.

CHECKMATE!!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 10:55 AM

I can agree, Trevor, that all peoples and all nations have their fascists and thugs. However, no one here is doing that.

I trust your decision to call me a racist is an upgrade from calling me FUCKWEED and MR. CUNT-FEATURES? You're really helping your arguments with that sort of conduct, Trevor.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 11:03 AM

I apologise for calling you fuckweed and Mr Cunt-features, this is due to an air of political correctness in this country and the world which frowns upon you being a white hetereosexual male of no paticular religious denomination which really winds me up. But the message rings true, I will not defend the actions of my countrymen who treat the holocaust as a joke but do not assume moral superiority over a country you obviously do not know!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 11:21 AM

So now we can debate like human beings. I also apologise for my hasty sweeping remarks trevor.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 11:27 AM

Thats all well and good but is Martin Gibson and CarolC still shagging

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 11:38 AM

Gibson loves to shag anything he claims to hates, so as an englishman I'm rather worried.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: brid widder
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 02:37 PM

"I wonder at what point in history we will arrive at the moment when Nazi uniforms ARE finally allowable at a costume party, ...... Spanish Inquistion getups are allowable now. You can dress up as one of Attilla's Huns now. You can dress up as a conquering Roman Centurion now."

I doubt there is anyone alive who has suffered at the hands of any of the despots mentioned...except the Nazis...I might be wrong but I think that makes a bit of a difference.

This young man has lived every moment of his life in the spotlight... apparently we are supposed to be interested in anything he does... I am not but think he should be aware by now that cameras are very commonplace... most of his associates will have one in their mobile phone... and photographs ... especially like this one are valuable... this was taken by someone at the party... not by the 'paparrazzi' and sold to the Sun for the bargain price of £10,000..(a bit of a missed opportunity there).

When he chose this costume he must have realised 1.that the papers would get hold of it 2.that offence would be caused and 3. that shit would hit the fan.... if he didn't realise he's an idiot... if he did realise and went ahead anyway ..he's an idot!

Harry is an adult and as such can behave as he wishes... and accept the consequences....which should in this case be serious.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: EagleWing
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 03:33 PM

Why are Carol and Martin carrying on a personal feud in this discussion?

Frank L.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: EagleWing
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 03:41 PM

"Well, a quick Google search showed a very large number of fancy dress rental shops in the UK where you could hire a Nazi uniform."

There's a shop just outside Nottingham where you can get masks of all sorts of people including GWB and Adolph Hitler. No problem!

Frank L.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: EagleWing
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 03:59 PM

"You're just so right, GUEST. I really wish we could have US or French style government in Britain, instead of the outmoded old system we run here. Things would start looking up pretty soon, I'll bet!!"

I'm no great fan of the Royal Family - but when I look at the records of the other countries that are held to be so perfect I can't see that their systems are so much better.

Stupidity & corruption don't change just because you guillotine anyone who speaks with a posh accent. The US is as capable of racism as Britain - despite having no royalty.

Frank L.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: EagleWing
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 04:10 PM

"no one suggested that britain adopt the french or us form of governance."

Yes someone did - in the post immediately above Greg's!

"i believe the suggestion is that britain leap forward out of it's 19th century mindset and join the rest of us."

Well, from where I sit I don't see a great deal of advantage in the mindset that took the US as well as the UK to a war based on bad (US)intelligence and in which some members of the "allied" forces appear to have acted just like the Nazis.

So Harry and Mark have acted stupidly. No one in America acts stupidly? No children of the US aristocracy ever lets his/her parents down?

What a grossly insulting attitude. And what a shame that so many Americans have decided to use this forum as an excuse to show their Anti-British bigotry. Thank God it is only a minority, albeit a seemingly large one.

Frank L,

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: EagleWing
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 04:32 PM

"That's nice, Trevor dear. Still doesn't change the fact the royals keep dragging Britain down and back into the good old bad days of Britain's worst colonial and imperial excesses though, does it?

Or change the fact that while Q. Lizzie is atoning for the sins of her family at the Auschwitz commemoration, all of Europe will be debating the need to innoculate itself against British racism and self-perpetuating ignorance.

Now run off down the pub to have a lager with yer louts, Trevor. There's a good man."

Who is this cowardly anonymous guest. He seems to take delight in his particular form of racism while hiding behind anonymity. The US is still holding a great number of people in concentration camps without trial but he ignores this. He does not out forward any facts to sustain his bigotry. Just refers to the sins of Britain. Uses words like British racism - he comes from the land where lynching blacks became a national sport, where black people had to ride in separate buses etc.

I'm not attacking the US in saying this. Simply pointing to the fact that his self-righteous cant is totally inappropriate.

Frank L.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Jason
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 06:40 PM

This guy sums it up just right: http://www.cuckingfunt.com

It's all so silly.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Once Famous
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 06:46 PM

Hey everyone, what's for dinner?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Marion
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 07:50 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 02:00 AM

The folk in the UK may be stuck with this fool (and his family) - but unlike the folk in the US - they didn't choose to elect him - twice.................

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Royal blue
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 02:13 AM

Prince H seems a simple soul. It was alleged that one of his teachers did a large part of his work for his academic qualification.

His friends seem to delight in setting him up, plying him with drink & drugs; for the tabloids to attack.

But there is no getting away from it, the picture of him wearing the swastika is now on file for newspapers and TV to use from now until the day he dies. He will have to undertake foreign tours and other royal duties and will know that wherever he ventures, the media in those states he attends will always have the opportunity to show him, again, in what may come to be called <>.

It's even more worrying if his own brother has been also egging him on to, eg, choose the uniform. When grandmom and father die, these men will be king, and heir, to the throne of the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Royal blue
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 02:17 AM

Sorry correction:
"... in what may come to be called his true colors".

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 03:20 AM

Anyone got a wall handy?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Once Famous
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 04:17 PM

Guest, we elect our leaders for two terms and then they are out.

Your ridiculous monarchy continues to keep your country in the middle ages and is only good for tourism at this point.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 05:42 PM

We get to CHOOSE whether or not we have a circumcision, and its no skin of our nose, whats your story Gibson?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 02:19 AM

Guest, we elect our leaders for two terms and then they are out.

Well that's alright then.

Always assuming that the rest of the world survives that long...........

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 11:14 AM

Martin, our Queen is not our leader. Her function is not presidential - she is simply a figurehead, a symbol. The UK political system does not mirror the US system, and she has no political function whatsoever, unlike that dickhead in the White House. You're comparing apples with oranges and claiming they're the same fruit. Wrong again Moriarty.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 02:27 PM

No he isn't comparing apples to oranges. The titular figurehead of a nation is still a political position, even without a lot of political power.

While it is true the royals don't have much political power vis a vis the parliamentary side of government, they and the hereditary peerage do still have political power.

Americans here choosing to voice their opinions on the actions of Prince Harry are in no way being "anti-British" or racist, any more than British citizens here expressing their opinion of George Bush or John Kerry (for instance) should be considered anti-American or racist.

Racism doesn't exist in a context of nation states. So that one is just plain stupid. Races of people are not equivalent to the citizens of national states, so any suggestion that a person is racist for being anti-British is just plain ridiculous.

But what does it matter now anyway? He's gotten away with it, hasn't he? He'll pay no consequence for his actions, he is a royal. In fact, I'm guessing Harry is already holding court again in the basement club Charles had built to keep Harry out of the eyes of the public and paparazzi.

Any bets on whether Harry behaves until he reports to Sandhurst?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 08:40 AM

Guest, did I say anyone was being racist or anti-British? Absolutely not - I'm very well aware that 'racist' is one of the most misunderstood and incorrectly-used word in the English dictionary.

And Martin claimed equivalency between the US President and our Queen - he, and you, are wrong, she does not have the powers that a President of the US has, in fact nowadays she does not even have the power of veto over Acts of Parliament. Her position is merely one of 'advisor' to the government which, in practical terms, means she has no power at all. She's a rubber stamp on the papers the government put before her.

The US constitution provides for an individual with Presidential powers, the UK constitution does not.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Prince Harry
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 09:41 AM

Well, poop. Didn't mean to cause such a row. My dad chewed me a new royal one at breakfast yesterday, and you should see the looks I get from the servants. I feel really dumb, but it was just like it wasn't really me, know what I mean? Some kind of wierd synergism with my friends, where we seem to spiral downhill and we can feel we're spiralling downhill but we can't engage our brains to stop it to where we just do one thing stupid and the next stupider. Like you can't catch your breath. I know my life is reallly empty and meaningless but I just can't stop it. Next thing you know I do something stupid but I think that wasn't me that started it, they're worse than me, but then I recognize it really was me and I can't believe it because they're stupider and emptier but I'm the one paying the price. My mum used to do the same, just snowballing into dumber and dumber meaningless crap but you can't wake up from it. Even writing about it I can't seem to catch my breath, I feel like I have no backbone and no brain, but it's not really about me, is it, I can't believe the whole world saw me being so stupid and they just grind it in and grind it in, now some of my so-called friends are sending me piles of newspapers and tabloids. I'm really no stupider than the lot of you that are trading barbed posts back and forth back and forth spiralling downward into sordid and sorry mean-ness f-you no F-you louder what a bunch of losers. Money can buy happiness? Money can make you less stoooopid? No. What a waste.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,The Queen
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 10:39 AM

Fuck orf Harry.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Fan
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 10:42 AM

Harry I would love to suck your stump

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah 2
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 07:24 AM

Gibson, your Presidents may last only two terms, but then you infallibly elect another fuckwit every time! The only difference is that our royal fuckwits come and go but have no executive power, and thus can safely be ignored. Meanwhile they prevent politicians getting their sticky hands on uncontrolled political power and those of us who enjoy it (far more than will admit to doing so)gain a real pleasure from the marvellous pomp and ceremony - (saw your monkey being 'inaugurated' - today - is THAT what you call a state occasion? Come over and see how the grown-ups do it!) As a bonus, now and then the system throws up a leader of real worth - both Elizabeths for example. In dicey circumstances such as a major world war even distictly third-rate monarchs, such as George VI can play a useful role as a focus for national unity.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,jacqui.c
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 11:08 AM

And, during the war, the royal family remained in London - on the basis that they couldn't face other Londoners if they left to avoid the bombing.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 11:30 AM

Yeah they remained in London, but they were hardly slumming it down the tube and surviving on ration coupons like the rest of their loyal subjects.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 02:23 PM

Maybe not down the tube, but then a lot of Londoners had their own airaid shelters.

I think that they did stick to rationing as well from something I read.

At least they didn't allow themselves to be moved to a place of safety - I'm not sure that the present lot would follow that example though. And I can't see W or Blair behaving in that way either.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah 2
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 03:10 PM

I think the Royal family did allow themselves to be driven off to Windsor, at least some nights, but they refused to be stowed away in Canada even when invasion seemed imminent. The rationing bit is quite true - the King had a black line painted in the inside of all the palace baths to ensure no-one used up too much hot water.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 03:19 PM

Not wishing to waste much time, effort, breath, life etc on this discussion (?) I would merely add a few observations:

1. Colonial America was so appalled by living under a monarchy that, when it tried to free itself, it offered a Kingship to a bloke called George Washington. When he turned it down (was it twice or three times?) they offered it to Charles Stuart, the Jacobite pretender to the British throne. When he turned it down they gave up and reluctantly became a republic;

2. Our beloved Royal family are indeed of partly German descent, but also are descended from llewellyn of Wales, and that should be good enough for anybody;

3. Thank God for the internet, so that all those rational people whose contributions I have read above cannot actually get at each other to break heads, lergs, bottles, windows etc.

4.   If Britain ever makes the mistake of becoming a republic, it will find out to its cost what happens when you have a head of state who is a politician.

That's all --- you can carry on shouting now.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Ooh-aah2
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 03:26 PM

They are also descended from Woden, via the Anglo-Saxon line, which pleases Heathens like me...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 04:46 PM

How about a suggestions for Prince William, Prince Harry and their chum's next theme party?

How about one with a King Charles I theme?

Where they could all dress as King Charles I and at the climax of the evening - the best costume can have their head chopped-off. Or they could all get their heads chopped-off......

Then next they could have a restoration - King Charles II party - or maybe not...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 05:12 PM

Funny bit on JOn Stuart's The Daily Show---I paraphrase "...Prince Harry was invited to the Innauguration but could not attend due to vacation plans at an undisclosed bunker in the Bavarian part of the Alps".

He was missed by all, assuredly. So many like thinking twits to cavort with.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Royal watcher
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 05:28 PM

In point of fact, Harry is not even a real prince. His father is not Charles, Prince of Wales and heir to the throne. Harry's father is James Hewitt, the guy that Diana was screwing while Charles was screwing that rottweiler Camilla.

Have a look at Hewitt's picture in this article.

Like father, like son.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 07:25 PM

Hes just been a toff with no brain, in the UK we have lots of them, untill recently they all sat, unelected in the House of Lords. He should have publicly said sorry, he is old enough now not to have his dad or grann send out statements. One last thing about the "Private" party, if it was some smalltown joe, fare enough it has nothing to do with us. But neither he, nor his brother are smalltown joes, they exist in there positions at the tax payers expense. Saddly we are their subjects, but they are also OUR rulers. We have every right to know what they are doing.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 07:56 PM

So--what is it---rulers that don't rule. Why keep the wealthy so and so's on?   History has passed the era of the kings---though I still like Henry V as portrayed by Shakespeare.   Sure gave it to the French--love the difference in Olivier's interpration of that compared to Branaugh----I think Branaugh's was better and more real.

I digress.

You pay taxes, they live high off the hog and contribute nothing but some tradition that left the world stage a century ago---what is left are the likes of a "clown prince" aka frat boy.

Having said all of the above I add that in WW2 I was in the group of children evacuated from London and Princess (then) Eliz. saw us little kiddies off with our gas masks at Victoria Station---but, Winnie was the man who galvanized the nation and the world.

So--Royalty. What is the point anymore? For humor (houmour) maybe. Alas poor Yorrick---they are now the court jesters. Your job is over.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 08:31 PM

Bring back 'It's a Knockout'. Surely their finest hour.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 11:32 PM

from royal watchers link : "He will be required to give his fingerprints and a DNA sample."

I guess this means that the royals will know once and for all who Harry's father might be if they don't already know.

Could be the reason Harry is acting out so badly. Maybe he also knows.

Hewitt was probably paid off long ago. It wouldn't be the first time.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: LadyJean
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 11:47 PM

When I was at O.U. the Annual Athens Halloween Orgy featured some spectacularly tasteless costumes. The man dressed as a pregnant nun was apalling, as were the Arab terrorists. But my favorite was the fellow wearing a trench coat and a pair of shoes. Every now and then he would pull open his coat to reveal that he had attached a very large loofah sponge to his shorts.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah 2
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 05:18 AM

Bill H - many people have said that the Morarchy are pointless, starting with Cromwell- they're still there. You obviously didn't read Barrie Roberts' and my earlier posts, which explain why a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 06:39 AM

Whoever his father was - his mother showed terrible taste in her men.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 12:52 PM

And, during the war, the royal family remained in London - on the basis that they couldn't face other Londoners if they left to avoid the bombing.

Sounds like you've swallowed the propaganda, jacqui, as the whole sycophantic nation did until fairly recent years (steered by what was a thoroughly sycophantic press). Try reading Kitty Kelley's book on the Royals. Much better researched than most of the hagiographical rubbish on the subject that preceded it. Apart from anything else, you will surprised at the number of intimates who have blabbed confidences. Betrayers and betrayed alike emerge as a thoroughly unpleasant set.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Newmatic
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 07:51 PM

Wonder what he'll wear to the wedding?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 09:20 PM

the emperors new clothes?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 11:01 PM

In the interests of accuracy, Eagle Wing, to my knowledge black people in the USA never used separate buses from the white people. They were required to sit at the back of the bus- and if the bus filled up with more whites, the blacks were required to move to the farther back seats.

Which is what Rosa Parks refused to do. As a matter of law, she was supposed to move farther back in order to let a white have her seat. When the bus driver told her to move, she refused and was arrested. And that's where the US civil rights movement began.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Ty
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 10:46 AM

Harry can wear what he fucking well likes.

He's fucking ROYAL.

OK?

Now shut up.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: EagleWing
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 02:16 PM

"In the interests of accuracy, Eagle Wing, to my knowledge black people in the USA never used separate buses from the white people. They were required to sit at the back of the bus- and if the bus filled up with more whites, the blacks were required to move to the farther back seats."

Thank you for that correction, Ebbie.

Frank L.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 05:42 PM

Discussions on Mudcat are nothing if not colorful, particularly so when a poster mixes history and humor (hyperbole?)

It's true that several of his supporters suggested to Washington (Barrie Roberts--22 Jan 2005 3:19 PM) that he become king, though to say that all "Colonial America" agreed is perhaps stretching it a bit. In fact, as a unit, "Colonial America" hardly agreed on anything, which is one of the reason for the elaborate system of checks and balances, which presidents have, with varying degrees of success, been trying to get around ever since.

It's less clear that Charles Stuart was ever offered the crown of "Colonial America"--he had, after all, been leading a progressively more unsavory life in exile after Culloden for about 40 years.

If this allegation is indeed not meant as humor, I would like more details--source of this info, exactly who offered Charles Stuart this crown, etc. Otherwise this sounds like fodder for Snopes.

Charles Stuart may have been offered the chance to trade a Roman exile for an American one--though even this is dubious--the Federalists didn't even want to receive captured Irish nationalists when the British suggested this (they got to the US anyway).

I'd be interested in further details.

Unless, of course, the whole thing is meant humorously--I assure you I'm trying to develop a finely honed sense of irony,

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,A relative
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 06:53 PM

To whom it may concern,

I am related to the house of Saxe Coberg Gotha, and hence, related to the royal family.

I hold no position of privilege and am not on the civil list, so do not receive tax payers money.

I wanted to ask you all a few questions.

How many times have you done something, and regretted it ? How many mistakes have you made in the past ? Do you remember what it was like/is like to be young ? How would you like to be permanently punished and ridiculed because you made a mistake ?

HRH Prince Harry, heir apparent, made a very ill advised choice of clothing. Thats it. Clothing. He wasn't frog marching to the tune of Deutchland, Deutchland Uber Alle, he wasnt professing to be a nazi. No slogans like 'Hitler was right'. Nothing, a poor choice of clothing. A costume.

I would ask you to think about that. Imagine if everything you did was open to scrutiny by the press, imagine if the only thing that got publiscised was the errors you made.

Give the lad a break and stop critiscising him on forums like this. If only in memory of his mother, Princess Diana.

Dean Billington

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Duane
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 07:14 PM

Cant remember him admitting it was an error or a mistake.

Big D.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 12:04 PM

The folly of youth.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 02:17 PM

Imagine if everything you did was open to scrutiny by the press, imagine if the only thing that got publiscised was the errors you made.

This is probably fair. Perhaps we can start a list of the many things the royal family do get right?

1. Err.......

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 12:56 PM

Ron Davies --- I wasn't joking about Charles Stuart. The idea of the UK becoming a republic fills me with such dismay I don't make jokes about it!
The story of Charles Stuart being offered the 'Crown of America' by the revolting colonists appears in a book called 'The Bloodlines of the Holy Grail', by an author whose name escapes me. It was widely published in p/back a few years ago & shouldn'ty be difficult to locate.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 01:15 PM

Ron --- the author is Laurence Gardner, whose website is at http://graal.co.uk, through which you can ask him. Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Piers
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 03:45 PM

Hi Dean Billington,
I just wanted to say how sorry I was to hear you were related to such
parasitical and unscrupulous wastes of space as the Windsors. If it is not Prince Philip advertising his commitment to world wide environmental issues by shooting as much domestic wildlife as possible or suggesting, after the Dunblane massacre, that a gun was as dangerous as a cricket bat (I wrote challenging him to a duel, him with a bat, me with a twelve bore, but he did not reply). There is also his overt racism: "If you stay here much longer you'll all be slitty-eyed. (China 1986)", "you can't have been here that long - you haven't got a pot belly" (Hungary 1993), "You Egyptians breed too much." (Egypt).

Then there's Prince Charles talking to plants and professing a desire to be reincarnated as a sanitary product. Despite the fact he is as thick as shit he feels he can tell other people how to educate their children, what types of houses we should live and work in and what foods we should eat. The irony is he seems confused that his proclamations are met with near-universal derision.

But it doesn't stop there, in July of 2001, Prince William, on one of his strenuous overseas visits, was pointed out a protected species of ibis flying over head. Just like gramps, his inbred reaction was to reach for a gun and shoot the poor creature dead.

I think Harry, hedonistic, beer swilling, nymphomaniac and prone to tantrums - he slammed a camera into the face of press photographer, must of thought it would be a good idea to continue the family tradition by dressing up as a nazi. It is well known that the Queen Mum was the guardian of the secret vaults at Windsor Castle, which house war-time records of the dealings the Windsors had with the Third Reich. She sent a copy of Mein Kampf to a friend before the war and commented "Even a skip through gives a good idea of [Hitler's] obvious sincerity." Harry's Grandpa, Prince Phillip, had a brother-in-law
in the SS, and Philips uncle was in the Gestapo. Edward VIII, Harry's great-great uncle visited Germany and met Hitler. He is quoted as saying "It would be a tragic thing for the world if Hitler were overthrown."

I'll give Harry a break if he gets proper job, works a proper week, lives in a the kind of house that most people live in and lives on the money that most people live on. If he continues the family tradition of privilege, arrogance and vanity as displayed his mother, father, uncles and grandparents then he will continue to be the butt end of a lot of abuse, and deservedly so.

Piers

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 11:26 PM

Barrie--

It's at least good to know you weren't being ironic--on Mudcat one has to have extremely fine-tuned irony antennae.

I'll try to get access to a copy of the Gardner book--always interested in dusty corners of history---but I'll have to say I'm extremely skeptical for many reasons.

I've read about Mr. Gardner a bit. He doesn't have a reputation for careful scholarship. We would need independent confirmation.

Can you tell me exactly who is supposed to have offered the crown of "Colonial America" to Charles Stuart? I would venture to say it was not an official offer. Who would have done it?--the Continental Congress?--not likely.

Who, how, why, even where this happened would be a question. Charles Stuart was making himself persona non grata in progressively more places--even the French told him he'd have to leave France. Alcoholism and woman-beating did not help.



The tale of Charles and the crown of "Colonial America" is a good story, but I'm afraid without a lot more detail it will have to be relegated to that status, if not, as I mentioned before, fodder for Snopes.

I am of course still interested in any details you may have.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 11:35 PM

"the revolting colonists"

LOL

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 07:20 PM

CarolC --- I confess --- I WAS joking when I used the expression 'the revolting colonists' (though it is strictly accurate).
Ron --- You are entirely entitled to mistrust Mr Gardner, As I suggested, you could e-mail him via his website and ask his sources. If you wait for me to trace Gardner's book you may, I'm afraid, wait until random chance or the library angel puts it under my hand again. (I lshare a v.small house with thousands of books, records, tapes & videotapes).
Until that serendipitous moment arrives, I can only tell you (from memory) that a party of colonists who were quite willing to give King George the finger were not, apparently, convinced of the glories of republicanism. Either before or after offering the 'Crown of America' to G.Washington, the asked Charlie Stuart. He was immensely flattered, but said that, since he had no issue, on his death the British were likely to try and take America back. I think Gardner names the originator of the offer and I believe he says that Stuart was asked twice. Best I can do for the present.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 09:42 PM

Barrie--

Fascinating (really). What a great story! Sure would like some more details. Exactly who were these colonists who offered Charlie the "Crown of America"? Are you sure you can't come up with any names?

Thanks.

And I'm sure others would also be interested

Ron (trying to overcome skepticism)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: NormanD
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 02:53 PM

Still going on about Prince Harry?
Ah, leave the poor kid alone, he hasn't got a mother...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Bill the Collie
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 12:01 PM

Well thanks norman but if he's a kid, you've got the wrong thread.
Check out "GOAT" instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Paranoid Android
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 12:15 PM

.........
          !         !
          !         !
          !         !
          !         !
          ....................
                   !         !
                   !         !
                   !         !
                   !         !
          ...........         !         
                  

I,LL BE BAAAAAAAAAACK

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,Paranoid Android
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 12:18 PM

Well, that didn't work very well.
O.K. Lets Party..

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry and fancy dress.
From: GUEST,The Curator
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 03:35 PM

In future Harry could dress as a British Army Major, he could get the uniform from his father. Major was the rank Prince Charles held, wasn't it ? So sorry my knowledge of Royality is rubbish.