Subject: ADD: Craven A From: John M. Date: 13 Jan 05 - 05:18 PM Hello everyone, If you are easily offended, please STOP READING. This thread is for mature audiences only. Please don't post "dreadful song" or "worst song written" as you are not helping. Below is a traditional bawdy song titled: "Craven A" Do you sing this song? If so when/where did you learn it? If you know this song -- or any bawdy songs -- would you please consider doing a telephone interview with me for folkloristic purposes? If you would like more information, you can send me an email me at john@mehlberg.com
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Jan 05 - 06:15 PM We have the MIDI for "Steamboat Bill" here (click). From the lyric structure, I'd say it seems to be a parody of Casey Jones. The Digital Tradition says "Bil" is derived from Casey. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: Joybell Date: 13 Jan 05 - 06:38 PM Hello John, Lots of our neighbours went to Geelong Grammar. I'll carefully ask around. Seems I've heard the landlady verse somewhere, but my schooling was of the Melbourne working class variety. Speaking about shools here - Bit of a drift but for your records, the poem called "The Lovers' Alphabet" was circulating in the Melbourne suburban primary schools during the 1950s. I read it at my desk, as it went around the room, in about 1955. Was quite impressed I can tell you. Cheers, Joy |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: Joybell Date: 13 Jan 05 - 06:55 PM John, True-Love tells me that you may not necessarily know about "Craven A". It was a brand of cigarettes - English, but popular here in Australia. One of my first cousins was featured on their advertisments in newspapers and magazines during the 1950s-60s. Cheers, Joy |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: Joybell Date: 13 Jan 05 - 07:53 PM John, Just ran the song past a friend who went to a prestigious boarding school similar to Geelong Grammar but a bit lower on the social scale. He was educated around the time that this song seems to have been set (using "Craven A" cigarettes as a guide). He hasn't heard it but he has a few comments about some of the words: 1. Now gather round you fellows and if you'll be still I'll tell you of a bastard born at Bellevue Hill, Bellevue Hill is a very posh suburb of Sydney. Many upperclass Sydney boys attend Geelong Grammar as boarders even though Geelong is in Victoria, South of Melbourne. Born at Boswell Hill, (could this be a missprint? Should it be Bellvue Hill again?) but raised in Camberwell, Camberwell is a posh suburb of Melbourne. No Boswell Hill he knows of. Friend thinks maybe this is just a way of lumping together a few well-known upperclass locations. 2. "Duke of York" = rhyming slang for "pork" along with, maybe, a double meaning based on the fact that Royals were/are often sent to Geelong Grammar. (never the Duke of York actually though.) 3. While rowing for the Varsity on boat race day He lost his oar and masturbated all the way They won by half a length but were disqualify (disqualified surely? For rogering the women on the Middlesex side. "Varsity" used rarely in Aus. but not impossible. "Rogering" not used much here. Used in England. Possible though. "Middlesex" = no school of that name here in Victoria. Friend thinks it's used because it fits and has the word "sex" in it. 4. The landlady's daughter, Millie, was as nice as can be, She always brought her cunt up with a cup of tea, She'd (must be a mistake - they'd/we'd surely) been through her so often that the courts declare Her vagina constitutes a legal thoroughfare. Friend sighed a lot and waffled on a bit about a landlady called Ivy. They did/do have landladies at boarding schools here. Cheers, Joy |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST,Snuffy Date: 14 Jan 05 - 08:34 AM The boat race verse refers to the Oxford vs Cambridge boat race on the Thames. The word "Varsity" usually (but not absolutely always) refers to these two, which before 1830 were the only two universities in England. The captains toss a coin for choice of "station" - Middlesex is the county on the North bank, while Surrey is the county on the southern shore |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: Folkiedave Date: 14 Jan 05 - 04:00 PM And Prince Charles went to Geelong Grammar didn't he? Perhaps you should ask him!! Dave |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: Joybell Date: 15 Jan 05 - 06:36 PM Yes Folkiedave, he did indeed. Anyone know him well enough to ask about this song? My thinking is that this was an adopted English song that aquired some local references here in Aus. Cheers, Joy |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: greg stephens Date: 16 Jan 05 - 12:39 PM Thi song was popular in Oxford(England) in the early 60's(in rugby circles). The chorus was slightly different from the one used above Craven A never heard of fornication Craven A never dipped his tool Craven A satisfied with masturbation Thought a cunt was something you were called at school |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST,richard Craven Date: 23 Jan 05 - 06:06 AM I am the second son of Aidan Craven who was at Sidney Sussex College Cambridge from 1928 to 1931. The song Aidan Craven, to the tune of Steamboat Bill, was written about him by four undergraduates. How do I know? Dad told me and one of the authors, Harold cooper, used to stay with Dad very regularly. I believe it was adpoted as the RAF marching song [one of] during the second world war. Richard Craven |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST,Lighter at work Date: 23 Jan 05 - 10:30 AM Richard, your father must have been an extremely good sport! Can you post a definitive copy of the original words ? |
Subject: ADD: Little Jim From: John M. Date: 02 Feb 05 - 04:00 PM Here is the oldest version of "Craven A" that I have yet found. It is from the 4th printing of the 1956 book titled Count Palmiro Vicarion's Book of Bawdy Ballads
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: John in Brisbane Date: 07 Feb 05 - 08:44 PM Hi John, have you been in contact with Ron Edwards of Cairns, North Queensland? Ron is probably Australia's most prolific living collector. Not surprisingly I've not seen the limited edition below: Title: Australian bawdy ballads / Main Author: Edwards, Ron, 1930- Publication: Holloway Beach, Qld. : Rams Skull Press, 1973 Description: 55 leaves : music ; 33 cm Notes: Limited ed. of 100 copies. Rare Books holds copy no. 68, signed by the author Hardie Collection holds copy no. 92 signed by the author Includes index. Series: Australian folklore - occasional paper ; no. 2 ISBN: 0909901104 (pbk.) Subject(s): Ballads, English--Australia Bawdy songs--Australia Other Author(s): Rams Skull Press Record no: 90235 Location Held at Cannon Hill. To request, phone 3840 7829, Mon-Fri Call Number: RB A821.04408 1973 Holdings note: c1 Rare Books holds copy no. 68, signed by the author Hardie Collection holds copy no. 92 signed by the author Status: Check Location information above Regards, John |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST,STEVE Date: 15 Jun 07 - 06:52 AM craven "A" Well sung song , actually an English song re the boat race part, sung extremely well by Harlequinsveterans team. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Jun 07 - 09:31 AM I learned this song in the then male-only Union Bar at Imperial College, part of the University of London, at the end of the 60s. There are a few differences, the main ones being: "born on Muswell Hill but lived in Camberwell," "tossing off the Prince of Wales," "they won by half a length but were disqualified, For splashing the spectators on the Surrey side" (nasty when you think about it!), "He slapped his massive penis on the tutor's desk, His tutor said 'now save it for a later date, Or I'll chop it off and use it for a paperweight." We didn't have the verse about Millie. The chorus went: Craven A, never heard of fornication, Craven A, always pulled his tool, Craven A, quite content with masturbation, Thought a c*nt was something you were called at school." I apologise to anyone reading this who googled me. :-( |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST Date: 13 Dec 07 - 08:56 AM We still sing this song regularly at Olney Rugby Club, England, except we change the subject of the song to John Swallow (one of our mates), and the chorus gets an extra line quickly slipped in: John Swallow, never had a woman. John Swallow, never dipped his tool. John Swallow, never heard of fornication, quite content with masturbation, Thought a cunt was something that they called him at school. Thanks for researching the full lyrics - just what I was looking for. Cherry |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST,Russ Date: 10 Feb 08 - 06:50 AM Hey! As a student at the Royal Veterinary College we used to sing this song, along with the official student song which has since been banned because of the high number of women students. Oh well - happy days |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: Mr Happy Date: 10 Feb 08 - 07:22 AM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craven_A |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: Mr Happy Date: 10 Feb 08 - 07:42 AM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunt |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST,Mark Date: 19 Jun 08 - 08:50 PM This is an English rugby song adapted to include Australian quirks (Geelong Grammar, etc.) The chorus, as I remember goes: Craven A had never heard of fornication, Craven A had never dipped his tool, Craven A was quite content with masturbation, Thought a cunt was something you were called at school. I have no idea what the original melody was, but the lyrics fit very well with 'Casey Jones'. Incidentally, 'The Lady of the Manor' lyrics fit well with the melody to 'Ghost Riders in the Sky'. Try it! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST,Prof Date: 23 Jul 08 - 08:50 AM I new this back in college in the early 80's with a couple of changes. It was "Sutton Grammer" and they were disqualified for "shooing the spectators on the Surrey side" which I think works quite well with the previous lines. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST,Ben Sinclair Date: 22 Aug 08 - 06:10 PM Craven A, never heard of fornication, Craven A, never dipped his tool, Craven A, All he did was masturbation, thought a cunt was something you were called at school. His entry into Varsity was a success, he slapped his tool down upon his tutors desk. His tutor said "not now, but at a later date, we'll chop it off and use it as a paper weight". While rowing for the Varsity on boatrace day, he dropped his oar and masturbated all the way, they won by 20 lengths but were disqualified, for buggering spectators on the Surrey side. Keel URFC 1980 - 83. THOSE WERE THE DAYS. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST,Jock Kutylowski Date: 17 Jan 09 - 05:58 PM Old Windsorians 1970,s OWRFC Windsor Berkshire England Uk version i know was being used in UK at leats in 1950's Corus unliek Aus one was Craven A never heard of masturbation Craven A never used his tool Craven A satisfied with masturbation Thought a C*nt wa somethig he was called at school verse i have not seen here here A varsity profesor in a short address "said" Craven never masturbate in acedemic dress but craven just to show he didnt give a fucjk tossed off into the inkwell going Phut one for luck Note (phut is a noise you make not a word) |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST,Miranda M---r Date: 02 Apr 09 - 09:36 AM Miranda M---r wrote: > Hi John. > I came across your version of the Craven A rugby > song just now. When I was at school in the mid > 70's, a lad from one of the Public Schools (dunno > which) brought this song into our teenage repertoire, > sung to the tune of the TV series "Casey Jones". > Our version differed somewhat from yours, as far > as I remember - although I am happy to say I only > recall a few of the words ;-) The chorus (lightly > modified in case Hotmail applies filters) was > > Craven A, never heard of fornication, > Craven A, never dipped his tool, > Craven A, satisfied with masturbation, > Thought a c*nt was something he was called at school. > > When he went up to Oxford it was quite grotesque > He slapped his massive penis on the Proctor's desk, > The Proc said, "Save it for a later date > Or I'll cut it off and use it as a paper weight!" > > I hope you now have enough recordings: I'm really not keen on singing this sort of stuff these days! > > Regards, > Miranda > > > |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST,Deedub93 Date: 07 Oct 09 - 06:54 AM Boswell Hill and Camberwell are both in London. The song I know goes: Whilst rowing for the Varsity on boat race day He 'caught a crab' and masterbated all the way They won by half a length but were disqualified For buggering spectators on the Surry side. Chorus Craven A, never heard of fornication Craven A, never dipped his Tool Craven A quite content with masterbation Thought a cunt was something you were called at school. All sung to the Caey Jones tune. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST,Nick Avery Date: 20 Jan 10 - 02:18 PM There were plenty of varients on this knocking around Oxford University rugby circles during the 1980s. While writing out his answer in the history schools (exams) Craven had the largest of the exposed tools The proctor said to Craven that you must confess.. it is wrong to masturbate in academic dress He went to Eton College for term or two He rogered all the masters and the prefects too Until at last he was expelled, or so they say.. for rogering the Duke of York on founders day |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST,Tim Date: 23 Jul 10 - 03:02 PM Cracking song and always a favourite at St Georges Hospital Med School RFC in the 80s. Chorus very similar to those above but - Craven A,never heard of fornication, Craven A, never dipped his tool "shit", Craven A, quite content with masturbation, Thought a cunt was something that they called him at school. and the verse "whilst rowing... we finsided with " for shooting at spectators on the Surrey side" All the best, Tim |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: JHW Date: 24 Jul 10 - 05:42 AM What's it got to do with fags? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: Old Vermin Date: 25 Jul 10 - 07:07 AM "Thought a cunt was something from a grammar school" was a variation in Surrey, England, in the 1960s. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: greg stephens Date: 25 Jul 10 - 07:55 AM "What's it got to do with fags?" is an interesting question which I haven't seen answered. Was there an original Craven A cigarette ad(or folk rhyme about cigarettes) also to the tune of Casey Jones, before this rude version developed? |
Subject: ADD: Craven A From: GUEST,Rich the Rhino Date: 10 Feb 11 - 09:53 AM Craven A was and still is a brand of cigarettes Here's the version as sung by Reading RFC in England CRAVEN A Now gather round you fellows if you only will I'll tell you about a bastard born in Muswell Hill Born in Muswell hill but lived in Camberwell The first words out've his mouth were "Bloody Fuckin' 'ell" CHORUS Craven A, he never heard of fornication Craven A, he never dipped his tool Craven A, quite content with masturbation Thought a cunt was something you got called at school Going on to grammar school was quite a to do He buggered all the prefects and the masters, too He got himself expelled or so the records say For tossing off the Duke of York on Founders' Day His entry to university was quite grotesque He flopped his massive penis on his tutor's desk The tutor said if it falls off at a later date Please send it on, I'll use it as a paperweight Now rowing for the varsity on Boat Race day He dropped his oar and masturbated all the way They won by twenty lengths but were disqualified For splashing all the ladies on the Surrey side Milly the landlord's daughter was as sweet as can be She brought her cunt up daily with a cup of tea He's been through her so many times, the court has declared Her vagina constitutes a legal thoroughfare Last Ch Craven A, now he's heard of fornication Craven A, now he's dipped his tool Craven A, not content with masturbation A cunt's more than just something you get called at school |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST,Stephen Thomas Date: 25 Mar 13 - 11:46 AM I can confirm that lyrics very similar to those quoted above were used by rugby club members at Jesus College, Oxford in the late 1970s. I note the claim about the origin of the song above, linked to Cambridge University in the 1920s, and have no reason to doubt that. However, here is a possible alternative (or a complete red herring): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Cravan It would fit with his (Cravan's) enigmatic life and Dadaist philosophy, but this may seem rather too high brow a suggestion for the nature of the song... Anyway, the link to the cigarette brand is quite feasible too. It's still selling well in West Africa (at least) today, thanks to British American Tobacco. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST,mark Hardaker Date: 28 Mar 15 - 09:10 AM the version we sang at Lincoln College, Oxford in the late 1970s has similar verses. We definitely had this one... While writing out his answer in the history schools Craven had the largest of the exposed tools The proctor said to Craven that you must confess it is wrong to masturbate in academic dress And the chorus was the version with "a cunt was something you were called at school" Happy rugby night memories Mark |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST Date: 09 Oct 18 - 10:52 AM Late sixties Sheffield swimming team "apres swim" entertainment: good times in the bar! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Craven A' Sing it anyone? From: GUEST,ripov Date: 11 Oct 18 - 10:11 PM So - who or what was 'Craven A'? I remember it as a brand of cigarette that my dad smoked occasionally (about 1950). So it must have had some pre-existence. |
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