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England Lacks Talent

Torctgyd 21 Jan 05 - 04:46 AM
Gurney 21 Jan 05 - 04:48 AM
John Routledge 21 Jan 05 - 06:07 AM
sian, west wales 21 Jan 05 - 06:25 AM
GUEST 21 Jan 05 - 06:34 AM
The Borchester Echo 21 Jan 05 - 06:50 AM
breezy 21 Jan 05 - 07:01 AM
MikeofNorthumbria 21 Jan 05 - 07:42 AM
GUEST 21 Jan 05 - 08:41 AM
GUEST 21 Jan 05 - 08:47 AM
breezy 21 Jan 05 - 08:50 AM
Dave Hanson 21 Jan 05 - 09:19 AM
IanC 21 Jan 05 - 09:42 AM
GUEST,Linda Kelly 21 Jan 05 - 02:28 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 21 Jan 05 - 02:35 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 21 Jan 05 - 02:38 PM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Jan 05 - 02:39 PM
sian, west wales 21 Jan 05 - 04:02 PM
shepherdlass 21 Jan 05 - 04:04 PM
GUEST,eliza c 21 Jan 05 - 05:40 PM
Big Mick 21 Jan 05 - 06:21 PM
Big Al Whittle 21 Jan 05 - 08:27 PM
Dave Hanson 22 Jan 05 - 04:05 AM
The Shambles 22 Jan 05 - 06:04 AM
GUEST 22 Jan 05 - 08:01 AM
GUEST,MikeofNorthumbria (sans Cookie) 22 Jan 05 - 08:02 AM
Cats 22 Jan 05 - 12:50 PM
breezy 22 Jan 05 - 01:13 PM
John C. 22 Jan 05 - 01:13 PM
GUEST,eliza c 22 Jan 05 - 05:58 PM
Dave Hanson 23 Jan 05 - 03:19 AM
John MacKenzie 23 Jan 05 - 05:16 AM
Richard Bridge 23 Jan 05 - 05:17 AM
GUEST 23 Jan 05 - 06:20 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 23 Jan 05 - 06:34 AM
shepherdlass 23 Jan 05 - 03:43 PM
GUEST 23 Jan 05 - 04:08 PM
GUEST 23 Jan 05 - 04:27 PM
akenaton 23 Jan 05 - 04:40 PM
GUEST 23 Jan 05 - 04:59 PM
GUEST 23 Jan 05 - 06:01 PM
The Shambles 24 Jan 05 - 01:52 AM
Torctgyd 24 Jan 05 - 04:06 AM
Malcolm Douglas 24 Jan 05 - 04:27 AM
John MacKenzie 24 Jan 05 - 04:49 AM
GUEST 24 Jan 05 - 08:27 AM
GUEST 24 Jan 05 - 09:26 PM
GUEST,Ooh-Aah2 25 Jan 05 - 04:29 AM
GUEST 25 Jan 05 - 06:16 AM
Richard Bridge 25 Jan 05 - 03:52 PM
greg stephens 26 Jan 05 - 11:26 AM
GUEST,Sidewinder 26 Jan 05 - 12:31 PM
Cats 26 Jan 05 - 12:37 PM
John Routledge 26 Jan 05 - 01:18 PM
GUEST 27 Jan 05 - 04:09 AM
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Subject: England Lacks Talent
From: Torctgyd
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 04:46 AM

According to the booker for Celtic Connections in Glasgow the reason he doesn't book more English Acts is that "there isn't the talent out there".


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: Gurney
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 04:48 AM

Why, are they too good at dodging thrown objects?


Grin.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: John Routledge
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 06:07 AM

Perhaps the English aren't Celtic :0)


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: sian, west wales
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 06:25 AM

Now that's funny. That's EXACTLY the same reason, verbatim, that he uses for booking NO Welsh acts.

And Welsh is, supposedly, Celtic.

siân


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 06:34 AM

What is this esteemed person's name?


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 06:50 AM

Colin Hynd.

Why would English musicians want to be associated with wifty-wafty, manufactured, Enyaesque, MOR rubbish anyway?

(Or, indeed, that other incarnation of "Celtic Music" which rips off those artists in the invidious position of being "Bulmer-owned"?)


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: breezy
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 07:01 AM

He's probably correct.

I cant stand the 'Welsh' acts.How can they expect to be liked if they sing in their native tongue spitting at the front row like that.Welsh language should be a leisure persuit


I have difficulty with the Scots accent so I only book one Scot, to remind me why I dont book any scots acts. Robin Laing is O K. the others want too much money. D G says other nationals should learn his dialect.

The English over estimate themselves as performers at the best of times.

arent the Irish just perfect, and the odd Greek,

as for the ornish well they are neither one nor the other.

Manx?


made in England, Welsh materials, living in Cornwall, I limp.

do I qualify for a lottery grant?


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 07:42 AM

I suspect that this Celtic Connections person is simply indulging in an old Scots custom known as "winding up the Sassenachs". After all, Billy Brag and the Kathryn Tickell Band are both on the programme this year.

Let's take this comment in the spirit in which it was (probably) given - with a dram of Glenlivet. But if he persists in his folly, then the great Anglian host will process up Sauchiehall Street and jingle Morris bells at him until he begs for mercy.

That'll larn him!

Wassail!


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 08:41 AM

There HAVE been Welsh acts on at Celtic Connections in the past!


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 08:47 AM

So what about Last Nights Fun then. Are they English????? with a token bit of Irish.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: breezy
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 08:50 AM

no, not the bells, please not the bells,


oh go then


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 09:19 AM

I caught a bit of it on the radio on Wednesday, Alison Brown ? an
American singer and banjo player, where is the celtic connection ? as good as she is.

Celtic Connections Festival is the festival equivalent of the Mike Hardly[ sorry Harding ] show, mostly drivel with occasional flashes of brilliance.

eric


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: IanC
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 09:42 AM

If you look at the "Last Nights Fun" website, it appears they are from San Diego and play what they describe as "Irish" music.

:-)


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST,Linda Kelly
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 02:28 PM

Is that San Diego, that renowned suburb of Goole? No Welsh acts-well give me fernhill anyday!


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 02:35 PM

where do you think Bluegrass music came from??


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 02:38 PM

it should also be noted that Alison Brown is the founder of Compass Records, a label that has quickly become argueably the most important distributor of Celtic music in the U.S.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 02:39 PM

Wales?


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: sian, west wales
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 04:02 PM

Yeh, the singing bastards. Not the fishy things.

sian


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: shepherdlass
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 04:04 PM

Ooh, sounds like the booker from Celtic Connections was having a laugh, and deliberately hitting an obvious raw nerve. I suspect it's more of a pragmatic decision than policy alone - and I'm sure a lot of the booking policy of a festival like this is dictated simply by who's available and already on tour at the time - it's far more economical to fill part of someone's existing schedule than to persuade them to your festival for a one-off. Maybe most English acts aim their tour schedules at summer festivals? And most English players (with apologies to Cornish, Northumbrians and Anglo-Scots/Irish everywhere) don't play Celtic music.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 05:40 PM

Yorkshire was once part of the Ancient Kingdom of Northumbria, tha knows...
x ;-)


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 06:21 PM

As to the subject of this thread, I would like to offer the following Americanism. Horseshit! I have met a number of Catters from England, as well as from other parts of Great Britain. A very talented bunch, the lot of them.

Mick


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 08:27 PM

Well I think the blokes got a point.

Taken as a whole they lack strength in depth and an overall strategy. they aren't the team they once was.

take that Martin Carthy when's the last time you saw him score, and Kate Rusby couldn't kick her grandmother. I mean when they're only ten yards out of the box, neither of em could have stood up to one of Billy Bremner's sliding tackles. Left them for dead it would.

Sell the bleeding lot, that's what I say.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 04:05 AM

You cheeky rascal eliza c, I think you just made that up.

Northumberland is a great place but Yorkshire is THE place.

eric


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 06:04 AM

Given the state of the current Scottish team - it is not really a good idea to bring foorball into this.

The BBC Culture Programme continued this theme but with little real substance. The suggestion was that Scottish devolution had played a part in stimulating music in Scotland.

Billy Bragg (that well-known English folkie) made the point that a festival called Anglo-Saxon Connections would be viewed with much suspicion (especially I suspect from Scotland). Would not the term Celtic Connections exclude English music's participation?

The whole thing is bogus. It is simply that the folk scene in Scotland and England has always been different. So have the laws and the tone of enforcement. Public Entertainment licensing has certainly contributed to the general easy ride that live music in Scotland receives - compared to the hurdles that are presented to all forms of live music in England and Wales.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 08:01 AM

Hi there folks,

This is getting interesting - sorry I missed the Culture Show, but from what's been quoted above, it sounds like Mr Bragg was right on the money there.

When Glasgow launches a festival called "Celtic Connections", flocks of media experts descend on it murmuring... "Marvellous talent... indigenous culture ... deep spiritual roots ... authentic national identity ... etc etc"

Whereas if someone in, for example, Winchester (King Alfred's old capital) were to launch a festival called "Anglo-Saxon Connections", then I bet those same experts would all be shouting "Fascism!" .

Now I admit that Prince Harry's recent own goal hasn't done us any favours in the PR department. And more seriously, I freely confess that England does have an Imperial past to live down - but then, so does almost every other nation. For example:

In the mid 12th century, while Stephen and Matilda were fighting for the throne of England, David I of Scotland popped across the Tweed and nicked Northumberland and Durham. He held on to them for several years, and if his successors had been a bit more assertive, then the Anglo-Scots frontier might still be the Tees ... or perhaps the Humber ... or even the Thames?

For all that that, I'm very happy to see the Scots promoting their own Celtic culture. And if making a commercial success out of it requires them to put on a festival dominated by Alt-Country singer-songwriters, some of whom have Scottish accents, then good luck to them. After all, getting bums on seats is what show business is about.

But by the same token, the English should also be allowed to celebrate their culture -including Mr Bragg's excellent contributions to it - without being called nasty names.

Wassail!


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST,MikeofNorthumbria (sans Cookie)
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 08:02 AM

Sorry folks - that anonymous guest was me - forgetting that I don't have a cookie on this machine.

Wassail again!


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: Cats
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 12:50 PM

In October we have a festival here in Cornwall, Lowender Perran, that promotes all things Celtic and we have Scots so why can't they have Cornish? And, of course, some Scots bands record material written by English people so perhaps we are just looking at more excuses.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: breezy
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 01:13 PM

and are Thorn and Roses, M O'Connor and Roger Bryant featuring in October at Lowender before we go any further?

Cant think of any other Cornish singers or group, dont count 'songwriters'

Maybe Hslp and Trsct

Steve Knightley is angling with Cousin Jack for honorary kernowship


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: John C.
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 01:13 PM

As far as I am aware the Scots have both a Celtic (Gaelic) tradition and an 'Anglo-Saxon' (for want of a better term!) tradition - after all the great ballads from the North East aren't in Gaelic, are they?
I think that 'Celtic' - at least as understood by the media - is mainly a lot of silly Nineteenth Century romanticism (with some fairly crude nationalistic undertones). As far as those same media are concerned 'Celtic' consists of, mainly, Irish Uillean pipes (usually standing in for Highland bagpipes) and Enya singing down a well! All very tiresome - and, as far as I, an Englishman, am concerned a complete misrepresentation of the cultures of our great neighbours the Scots, Welsh and Irish, for whom I have the greatest respect (they, of course, are free to disagree with me).


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 05:58 PM

Mike,
I don't think the English have to be embarrassed about the British Empire any more than the Scots and Welsh do. In moments like this, I look at this quote I found in a cracker somewhere:
"The ordinary working people of England were never masters of an empire; they were that empire's first colony, and its first victims".
Feels weird to be culturally crippled by an Empire we never had.
x ec
As for lacking talent, that's obviously rubbish. But a big, slick festival like CC wants to put on big, slick bands-do we have those? Do we want them?


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 03:19 AM

There is no difference between English talent, Scottish talent or any other talent, talent is talent OK.

The difference is the way the establishment and media treats its traditional singers, dancers, musicians etc.

Ireland in particular has for a long time made ambassadors of it's traditional musicians to represent the best of Irish culture, Scotland is trying to do the same, England on the other hand seems embarrassed, ignores it or treats it as a joke, so a lot of people never get to find out what great music and songs we've got.

And that arse from Celtic Connections obviously doesn't know the first thing about English folk song and dance or he wouldn't make such stupid remarks.

eric


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 05:16 AM

May I as a Scot living in the highlands just say this, "I would not go to the Celtic Connections festival if you paid me."
As to the mongrel nature of all Brits I refer you to a song sung by John Foreman, which I think is called 'One Leg up and One Leg Down' the title refers to the statue of Eros at Picadilly Circus. One verse goes roughly thus.
Now where's your cockney pedigree?
I'm very glad you ask it,
For everyone who's been and gone,
Put a bun into the basket.
The same is true of the rest of the UK, the Romans got as far north as Antonines wall, and Bonnie Prince Charlie got as far south as Derby, and turned back [I wonder why?] If you add the Vikings into the mix, the Jutes and the Angles well; what's all the fuss about.
From the half Norn Irish, half Glaswegian.
Giok


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 05:17 AM

Curiously, a local (Kent) well respected Scottish unaccompanied singer was making a possibly related point to me recently. Back in the 60/70s those who went to Scotland would find most folk musicians playing and singing Irish material. He did so himself. Then he heard the late Hughie Green enquire in connection with his well known talent quest "Why are you all pretending to be Irish?". He has since concentrated on Scottish (from traditional to contemporary)material - it is HIS roots. Now he asks "You English have some wonderful songs. Why don't more people sing them?"


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 06:20 AM

"The ordinary working people of England were never masters of an empire; they were that empire's first colony, and its first victims".
Feels weird to be culturally crippled by an Empire we never had.


Very true but what sort of cracker was this? Not a Tesco's one I bet!

I did see the Culture Show and although it was making the point that Scotland does have a flourishing folk music scene - the point that England has not - was not really demonstrated. In fact the evidence (the young English musicians interviewed) tended to contradict this view.

But many of the Scottish performers will tell you that they do have to look to find work outside of this local scene and much of that work is found in touring England and Wales (and elsewhere of course).
I lived in Scotland for 12 years before moving back home to England - and there are differences but there is certainly no lack of talent in England or lack of musical forms in which to display this talent.

However, this music reflects our past and present cultural mix. This music is quite naturally eclectic and does not (generally) reflect a basic (folk) Englishness. And it is probably better when this is not a forced attempt to do this - but one that accepts English folk music as just one of the many influences open to us. Rather than excluding influences like Jazz, Blues etc.

For the folk music of Ireland, Scotland and Wales only forms the very basics of what the music currently celebrated and reflected in Celtic Connections actually is. And this is of course made by many non-Celts.

I feel that there is a danger of an appraoch to music that tries to be Nationalistic or racial or whatever - even when this is done with the best of intentions. As in truth the music will always transcend these artificial barriers - and so it should.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 06:34 AM

Over the last forty years, the education of children has changed, as successive governments have loaded teachers with paperwork, and loaded the curriculum with structured segments to teach what used to be learned as part of the other subjects. This has squeezed out a lot of very important items, which were expendable, in political terms.

When I was at school (1945 - 1957), we were taught English folk music an dance, as a part of the curriculum, and actually took part in the annual National Schools English Country Music & Dance Festival, which was held at the Royal Albert Hall, in London. Music and Dance teams from schools all over the country performed on stage (I played a violin solo there at the age of nine).

The result of all this, was that the generation that was part of the sixties revival, actually knew about their nation's tradition and heritage, and were able to appreciate it.

This was one of the expendables that got pushed aside, and recent generations of children have been deprived of that input. So they know all about Boyzone, and nowt about t' folk zone. Unless we can find some way to give back that knowledge to all children, on a national scale, I see no hope that more people will sing the huge mass of wonderful English songs. More, that is, than those who already do, and their own offspring.

Government, of course, don't want to take us seriously, as they want subservient little Europeans to govern, not proud and independent Englishmen, who might object to being led by the nose into membership (junior) of the proposed superstate Europe.

If only there were enough of us that our votes might matter, then they would listen.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: shepherdlass
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 03:43 PM

Dead right, Eliza C - it's artificial and repressive to deny English vernacular culture its place: there's no way this can help apologize for an empire which also rode roughshod over the poor of its home country.

But ... Celtic Connections isn't a festival of English music. Granted, it's not a festival of nu country either, but presumably they have to face up to the economic realities that a few non-Celtic big names - wherever they hail from - will help ensure the festival's survival. So this year, the English representation is limited ... but Billy Bragg certainly stands out as a shining example of non-Celtic crowd pulling - and he remains fantastic whatever label he fits or doesn't fit. You get at least a handful of these anomalies in every big festival. It's just so much more interesting when it involves the raw nerves and old enmities between Scots and Sassenachs.

By the way, does anyone else think there was a question that should be asked about the interview on the Culture Show that started this thread? Did the guy jump or was he pushed? Something tells me that the producer was looking to find an angle and provoke a controversial statement - what better way than to roll out the old "England has no culture" warhorse for the millionth time? We do (self included) all take the bait whenever it's thrown at us - but whatever keeps it alive, eh?


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 04:08 PM

"Something tells me that the producer was looking to find an angle and provoke a controversial statement - what better way than to roll out the old "England has no culture" warhorse for the millionth time? We do (self included) all take the bait whenever it's thrown at us - but whatever keeps it alive, eh?"

Consider the nail well banged.

Of course the producer was looking to stir the pot, and obviously chose the easiest route to non-controversy.

What is said and pathetic is how nearly every contributor to this thread fell for it.

Yer man from CC was simply playing along as an obvious wind up.

It is also blatantly obvious that precious few of the posters here are familiar with this now fairly long running music, arts, and culture festival in the dead of winter in Glasgow. How could anyone begrudge Glaswegians any sort of celebration in January, fer chrissake? Ever been there in January?

No, I thought not. Apparently most here don't get north of the border much any time of year (I hear they have devil's tails up there in Glasgow!), what with all of you wearing your biases so brazenly upon your sleeves. And everywhere else on your cultural apparel.

Celtic Connections regularly invites non-Celtic musicians to perform as guests at the headlining concerts only. Yes, they are on the bill as money-draws, to pull in the locals. Famous and well known American musicians do appear at this festival.

However, the rest of the week at Celtic Connections is a veritable feast of local, often amateur Scots and Scots Gaelic music and cultural events, celebrating their cultures while also embracing others.

The comment was a wind up, obviously intended to needle those smug and self-righteous English folk with a wee sense of humor, and even less cultural self-esteem.

Consider yerselves successfully wound.

And finally, I would suggest the word 'Celtic' would invoke much less anti-nationalist wrath if the English weren't so bloody nationalist in THEIR thinking.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 04:27 PM

Here are a few blurbs about the festival, from their website:

Artists appearing at the festival in 1996 included:
Van Morrison
Carlos Nunez
Capercaillie
Martyn Bennett
June Tabor
Tony McManus
The Fureys
Carol Laula
Janis Ian
Pearlfishers
Steve Riley and the Mamou Playboys
Natalie MacMaster
Swap
Brian Kennedy
Nollaig Casey
Dick Gaughan
Kathyrn Tickell

"What a start to Celtic Connections 1996. Concert goers were treated to a Gala Concert featuring the legendary French jazz violinist, 89 year old Stephane Grapelli performing with Galway fiddler Frankie Gavin. The repertoire covered everything from Gershwin, Irving Berlin, Cole Porter and Django Rheinhardt.

24 year old Alison Krauss ended a busy festival. Her album "Now That I've Found You" swept the boards at the 1995 Country Music Awards. Even at this point in her career she was credited as the women who brought bluegrass back into the mainstream of country music's consciousness."

The word 'connections' should be the tip off. Not just a festival celebrating Celts only by Celts only (that would be absurd in this day and age), but people the Celts are connected to by geography, cultural and musical similarities, that sort of thing, in a roots & shoots sort of way.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 04:40 PM

For Fuck sake!!!    where else would you get June Tabor, Martin Simpson and Andy Cutting ,plus three other fine folk musicians on the same bill all for 14 quid.
And every one of them was Engish, with talent coming out of every orifice.
In musical terms, nationality means nothing....Ake


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 04:59 PM

Like I said, most likely scenario is yer man from Celtic Connections was winding up the presenter for playing the nationalist card as a means of getting the desired 'controversial' response. If Celtic Connections really thought that way, they wouldn't hire English musicians to perform, and try and reach south to get English punters to attend, now would they?


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 06:01 PM

And I also don't understand why anyone thinks a festival titled "English Connections" wouldn't be accepted or acceptable? What would be so inconceivable about that? I grant you "Anglo Saxon Connections" sounds a bit odd and might be a bit of a hard sell, but "English Connections" has a lovely ring to it.

So perhaps instead of trashing the Celts and blaming them for the lack of interest in your musical traditions amongst your fellow citizens, you might try selling your own traditions back to yer own and the rest of the world. Just do it at inflated prices, and import the odd Celtic musicians to draw in the locals, and I'm sure it will be a smashing success.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 01:52 AM

English Conections would propably be a title that would evoke an even worse reaction. Wales can be encouraged to be Welsh and Scotland to be Scottish - but any attempt at encouraging multi-cultural England to be English - simply will not do.....

But none of this has much to do with making folk music.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: Torctgyd
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 04:06 AM

I would like to reassure Guest that I have lived and worked in Glasgow (pre Celtic Connections) and have no problems with the festival, the acts booked or anything else apart from the comment on TV by Colin Hynd. I have no wish to say who he can or cannot book but to give a such a reason for not booking English acts, even if it was a wind up perpetrated by the producer of the show, I found highly offensive.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 04:27 AM

It's all rather sad, really. Leaving aside the issue of "celticness" (largely an imaginary concept in this "connection"), I'm fairly sure that an English festival organiser announcing that Scotland had no talent worth booking would immediately be denounced as racist; or as a mere idiot. I see no reason why this is any different. Some jokes are amusing, while others simply perpetuate unpleasantness.

Anyone who imagines that Scotland has more in common, musically, with Brittany or Galicia (which is "celtic" only by a pretty contrived stretch of definitions) than it does with England is someone who, frankly, doesn't know what they are talking about.

Having a foot in both camps, I find this sort of immaturity especially disappointing. It's one of those embarrassing family squabbles. There are times when even a favourite uncle needs a good kick up the arse.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 04:49 AM

The amusing thing to me as a Glaswegian is the seriousness with which this is being discussed. I'm willing to bet that somewhere in the ghastly concrete jungles called 'housing schemes' that surround Glasgow, there is a wee Bluenose [Glasgow Rangers Football team supporter] who is outraged that there is a festival about their bitter rivals Glasgow Celtic football team. Now if you really want bitter rivalry, forget you England versus Scotland, and have a look at Celtic versus Rangers.Talk about a little local difficulty; you aint seen nothin' yet!
Giok


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 08:27 AM

I agree it is a silly, trifling matter. I found the wind up humorous, particularly in light of the holier-than-thou reactions of this group. I'd say the wind up hit it's mark perfectly.

I disagree also with the suggestion that an "English Connections" festival would be frowned upon. I just don't believe English national self-loathing is nearly as bad as the hysteria mongers in this group claim it is.

And finally, let's just remember it wasn't the Celts who slapped the "Celtic" label on their people--that was the English and German romantic nationalist scholars.

So let's give credit where due, shall we?


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 09:26 PM

Mr.MacKenzie, I think you'll find that the author of Eros was Sidney Carter. John foreman may have sang it, but Sidney wrote it, if I'm not very much mistaken.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 04:29 AM

Anyone who thinks that England lacks talent hasn't been to Chester. The girls there are gorgeous!


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 06:16 AM

There used to be a good folk club in a pub called the Crossed Foxes in Chester.
Giok


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 03:52 PM

Chester.....

And there used to be a shit one called the Mucky Duck. Sit and listen to the PA venue, and audition if you want a floor spot sort of place. I used to add a verse to "Martin" - "Sought Folk at the Mucky Duck (etc) Seemed that I was out of luck".

THat would ahve been about 74 or 75.

Met a good singer with a very powerful voice - Danny Dove, I think, in the town at a different club.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 11:26 AM

I think the Celtic Connections bloke had a point. there are any amount of English outfits who go down fine at English folk festivals, which are generally ring-fenced events preaching to the converted. But put youself outside England for a minute, in front of the mainstream audience who turn out for folk/roots events in a lot of other countries, eg Scotland or Ireland. Let's put together a hypothetical bill of Christy Moore, Dick gaughan, Danu and Shooglenifty for a nice afternoon/evening in a park in Ballybollix or Auchterhoochtie. Now, seriously, which English band/ singer are you going to slip into the middle of that bill to maintain momentum? I am not saying there are no English acts to fill that slot, there are one or two. But not a right lot, let's face it. It's a different market, and not one that the average English folk act is trained to fit in to.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST,Sidewinder
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 12:31 PM

Maybe he is looking in the wrong places, or he is in the wrong job.I suggest he place an ad in the free press and prepare for the influx of the great wealth of talent waiting out there to be discovered and exploited for profit and gain. As I assume this is his underlying motive for bleating about this issue. Merry Olde England prevails yet maybe Bonnie Scotland is losing her allure for the talented hoardes of this sceptered isle.

Regards.

Sidewinder.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: Cats
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 12:37 PM

Breezy - at the moment it looks like all of Cornwall Songwriters will be there as we may well be doing 'Unsung Heroes' - it's being negotiated! Not only will you get O'Connor, Bryant, Heslop, Truscott, Owen and Burrows but you'll get to hear the amazing voice of Kathy Wallis, not a songwriter but borrowed by CS as they needed another female voice and it was her idea in the first place!


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: John Routledge
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 01:18 PM

Sidmouth 2005 has a fair few first class English performers.


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Subject: RE: England Lacks Talent
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 04:09 AM

But did they have any Scottish Acts?


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