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Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?

DigiTrad:
THE CLIFFS OF DONEEN


Related thread:
Cliffs of Dooneen (14)


GUEST,Paranoid Android 23 Jan 05 - 01:31 PM
michaelr 23 Jan 05 - 03:00 PM
s&r 23 Jan 05 - 03:06 PM
GUEST,Com Seangan 23 Jan 05 - 04:00 PM
GUEST,Paranoid Android 25 Jan 05 - 06:53 PM
Big Tim 26 Jan 05 - 04:45 AM
Liz the Squeak 26 Jan 05 - 10:45 AM
greg stephens 26 Jan 05 - 11:06 AM
manitas_at_work 26 Jan 05 - 11:13 AM
Joe Offer 26 Jan 05 - 07:37 PM
Malcolm Douglas 26 Jan 05 - 08:50 PM
michaelr 26 Jan 05 - 10:50 PM
MartinRyan 27 Jan 05 - 03:04 AM
Peter T. 27 Jan 05 - 04:37 AM
GUEST 28 Jan 05 - 03:05 PM
Liz the Squeak 28 Jan 05 - 05:11 PM
GUEST 29 Jan 05 - 06:17 AM
Flash Company 29 Jan 05 - 09:45 AM
GUEST,dhchaisson 14 Feb 05 - 11:40 PM
michaelr 18 Feb 05 - 07:46 PM
GUEST,Frances 21 Sep 05 - 04:06 PM
michaelr 21 Sep 05 - 09:07 PM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 22 Sep 05 - 03:28 PM
Brían 22 Sep 05 - 05:39 PM
GUEST,Guest, Big Tim 23 Sep 05 - 01:55 AM
GUEST,Guest, Big Tim 23 Sep 05 - 03:38 AM
GUEST 28 Apr 07 - 08:52 AM
GUEST 28 Apr 07 - 08:55 AM
GUEST,Aiden Gallagher Wimbledon, London, UK 26 Feb 08 - 08:52 PM
GUEST, Aiden Gallagher UK 26 Feb 08 - 09:16 PM
Diddleedee 26 Feb 08 - 09:40 PM
GUEST,Murphy 27 Feb 08 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,Artessss 03 Mar 08 - 07:30 PM
Jim Carroll 04 Mar 08 - 03:36 AM
Suegorgeous 04 Mar 08 - 08:07 PM
GUEST,Big Tim 05 Mar 08 - 11:18 AM
GUEST,Big Tim 05 Mar 08 - 11:22 AM
GUEST,leeneia 06 Mar 08 - 10:38 AM
GUEST,Big Tim 06 Mar 08 - 12:15 PM
ard mhacha 07 Mar 08 - 11:46 AM
GUEST,leeneia 07 Mar 08 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,crazy little woman 07 Mar 08 - 01:09 PM
Big Tim 07 Mar 08 - 02:22 PM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 07 Mar 08 - 03:20 PM
GUEST,leeneia 07 Mar 08 - 10:58 PM
Big Tim 08 Mar 08 - 05:07 AM
Bert Fegg 08 Mar 08 - 03:50 PM
GUEST 08 Mar 08 - 07:05 PM
GUEST,crazy little woman 08 Mar 08 - 10:18 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Mar 08 - 03:40 AM
Big Tim 09 Mar 08 - 04:20 AM
ard mhacha 09 Mar 08 - 07:44 AM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 09 Mar 08 - 08:38 AM
Big Tim 09 Mar 08 - 09:43 AM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 09 Mar 08 - 10:34 AM
Big Tim 09 Mar 08 - 12:12 PM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 09 Mar 08 - 02:04 PM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 09 Mar 08 - 08:07 PM
Big Tim 10 Mar 08 - 04:08 AM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 10 Mar 08 - 07:52 AM
Big Tim 10 Mar 08 - 12:25 PM
ard mhacha 10 Mar 08 - 12:34 PM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 10 Mar 08 - 04:03 PM
Big Tim 10 Mar 08 - 05:30 PM
GUEST,henryettta 11 Mar 08 - 10:32 AM
MartinRyan 11 Mar 08 - 11:06 AM
ard mhacha 11 Mar 08 - 05:47 PM
GUEST,Jim Martin 11 Mar 08 - 09:50 PM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 11 Mar 08 - 09:56 PM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 13 Mar 08 - 08:05 AM
Thompson 13 Mar 08 - 08:20 AM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 13 Mar 08 - 09:01 AM
Mr Happy 13 Mar 08 - 11:38 AM
Big Tim 13 Mar 08 - 12:31 PM
GUEST,leeneia 13 Mar 08 - 08:12 PM
MartinRyan 14 Mar 08 - 04:36 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Mar 08 - 04:38 AM
GUEST,mg 14 Mar 08 - 03:46 PM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 17 Mar 08 - 03:22 PM
Big Tim 17 Mar 08 - 03:56 PM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 17 Mar 08 - 04:06 PM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 18 Mar 08 - 10:19 AM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 19 Mar 08 - 11:02 AM
Big Tim 19 Mar 08 - 12:19 PM
Dooneen Boy 05 Apr 08 - 07:34 PM
michaelr 06 Apr 08 - 01:35 PM
Big Tim 07 Apr 08 - 10:42 AM
Big Tim 08 Apr 08 - 12:11 PM
GUEST,thomaspierce09 09 May 08 - 08:50 PM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 30 May 08 - 06:43 PM
Dooneen Boy 08 Jul 08 - 08:14 PM
Dooneen Boy 07 Sep 08 - 08:17 AM
GUEST,David Ingerson 08 Sep 08 - 02:19 AM
GUEST 19 Sep 08 - 11:37 AM
Captain Pugwash 29 Sep 08 - 11:21 PM
GUEST,Big Tim 30 Sep 08 - 10:35 AM
Captain Pugwash 01 Oct 08 - 01:13 AM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 10 Oct 08 - 06:59 PM
GUEST 22 Nov 08 - 02:26 PM
GUEST,dooneen.com 23 Nov 08 - 04:09 PM
GUEST,Dooneen Boy 17 Dec 08 - 12:43 PM
GUEST,ellen (crotty) connolly 04 Apr 09 - 05:51 PM
GUEST,Liam Ohainnin Germany formely beale 05 Sep 09 - 03:30 AM
Dooneen Boy 18 Oct 09 - 04:14 PM
GUEST,Big Tom 25 Oct 09 - 07:03 PM
michaelr 26 Oct 09 - 04:23 PM
Dooneen Boy 26 Oct 09 - 07:04 PM
Dooneen Boy 27 Oct 09 - 06:57 PM
GUEST,Michael O'Connell 20 Jan 10 - 03:03 PM
michaelr 20 Jan 10 - 06:22 PM
GUEST,Late_to_the_party 22 Mar 10 - 02:37 AM
Fiolar 22 Mar 10 - 09:21 AM
GUEST,Murphy 08 May 10 - 06:27 AM
GUEST,luap, MIltown Malbay 06 Jul 10 - 08:50 AM
GUEST,Guest 17 Aug 10 - 09:02 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 18 Aug 10 - 03:43 AM
buddhuu 18 Aug 10 - 05:35 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 18 Aug 10 - 09:27 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 18 Aug 10 - 09:50 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 19 Aug 10 - 08:39 AM
michaelr 19 Aug 10 - 05:52 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 20 Aug 10 - 03:56 AM
GUEST,Dooneen 20 Aug 10 - 10:51 AM
GUEST 14 Sep 10 - 10:10 AM
GUEST,Desi C 01 Nov 10 - 04:24 PM
GUEST,maureen 16 Feb 11 - 03:52 PM
GUEST,Ej 11 Jun 11 - 12:38 AM
GUEST,Ellie 12 Nov 11 - 09:14 PM
GUEST 28 Jun 12 - 09:30 AM
Jim Martin 05 Oct 15 - 06:41 AM
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Subject: Origins: Cliffs of dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Paranoid Android
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 01:31 PM

Because the song "Cliffs of Dooneen" refers to several locations in County Clare most people assume that the cliffs of Dooneen are in County Clare. I have long held the view that the cliffs of Dooneen are located near Beal in north Co. Kerry which is located on the Shannon Estuary facing towards Co. Clare. I recently met a County Clare man who said that the cliffs of Dooneen are non existent and are merely a figment of the song-writer's imagination. Has anyone out the got the definitive answer?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of dooneen. WHERE?
From: michaelr
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 03:00 PM

I was in Ireland last September and endeavoured to travel to several locations given in song. For example, I went to Spanish Point and stood on the white strand, as Andy Irvine did in his song "The West Coast of Clare". A particularly poignant moment came when I sat in the famine graveyard Old Shanakyle outside Kilrush and there sang the song of the same name.

I tried to find out the location of the Cliffs of Doneen, "where the towns of Kilrush and Kilkee can be seen", but was unable to pinpoint a location high up enough to afford a view of both towns. Like Guest paranoid android, I surmised the location to be in northern Kerry, perhaps along R551 west of Ballylongford, or perhaps in westernmost Clare, heading toward Kilbaha and Loop Head on the R487, but I had no success in my search.

I also was told the Cliffs don't exist outside of the songwriter's imagination.

Cheers,
Michael

Cheers


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of dooneen. WHERE?
From: s&r
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 03:06 PM

We asked for info in Ennis Tourist Information about the Siege of Ennis. We were told there wasn't one.

Stu


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Com Seangan
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 04:00 PM

Yes, there is a Dooneen in North Kerry across the estuary and from which "Kilkee and Kilrush can be seen".

But, don't take that Clare crowd too seriously. At least Donnen has more validity than Gloccamorra!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Paranoid Android
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 06:53 PM

Ah!, t'is true me boy. The annoying part of all this is that about 20 years ago I drove along the north Kerry coast and found a place called Dooneen and looked across the estuary at Co. Clare. My problem is that I'm not too sure at this stage that the event above actually happed. Sure isn't drink a grat yoke!!!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 04:45 AM

There's a "Dooneen" Point on the Kerry shore, 3 miles north of Ballybunion. Kilkee is 8 miles directly north across the Shannon estuary, and Kilrush is 8 miles to the north east.                  

I haven't been there, so I don't know if both towns would be visible. However, from the 1:50,000 Ordnance Survey map, I'd say so. Kilrush is across open water and the angle is quite tight but the north west area of the town looks to be visible. Kilkee is across 3 miles of water and 5 more of flat Clare countryside.

I'd say that Dooneen means "little fort" and there is indeed the ruin of a "promontory fort" marked as being there. From that specific point, Kilrush wouldn't be visible (Beal Point, two miles north east would block the view). However, if the songwriter (who was he, or she?) walked about a quarter of a mile north east, Kilrush would probably begin to come into view. I hope that's clear!            

If there are any cliffs there, they must be modest ones, as they are not marked on the OS map. There are no roads leading to Dooneen, so if the writer did indeed stand there, he, or she, must have walked across about half a mile of open countryside.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of dooneen. WHERE?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 10:45 AM

3 miles north of Ballybunion? Blimey, I might even have been there!!! I wouldn't realise it though, not being familiar with the song... and the car I was travelling in contained 3 die-hard folkies with an Irish tradition.

We had a 'rule' that if you knew a song/tune about the place we were driving through/past, you sang the song or hummed the tune. I suspect that rule was suspended when we drove through Limmerick. The other female in the car couldn't remember 'Limmerick, you're a lady' and I just started off with 'There once was a fellow called Clyde, who fell in a cesspit and died', and carried on all the way through Limmerick.

If we went through Dooneen after Limmerick (we drove around a lot!), then I wouldn't have heard the song.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of dooneen. WHERE?
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 11:06 AM

I think those cliffs at Dooneen come into the same category as the hill at Spancil (sp?).There aren't any, and there isnt one. Much like those banks of sweet primroses on a midsummer morning in English folk song, or that girl from Kent going nutting in the summer.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of dooneen. WHERE?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 11:13 AM

We didn't get out of the car at Dooneen as it was pissing down and all we could see from the road was dunes and not cliffs. I understand the dunes are high enough to qualify as cliffs by the river. It's worth remembering that sand dunes have a tendency to be eroded far faster than chalk or granite and the cliffs may have had a better view across the Sahnnon when the song was written. And no, it doesn't seem to have been written by an aviator as we speculated.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of dooneen. WHERE?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 07:37 PM

I crosslinked to the lyrics in the Digital Tradition, and to the other thread on this song. I didn't find much source information for the song itself. There's no entry in the Traditional Ballad Index, and only this short mention at folktrax.org:
    CLIFFS OF DOONEEN, THE - "I've travelled so far from my native
    home" "Far away o'er the mountains far away o'er the foam"

    mentions view across the Shannon towards coast of Clare, Kilnarush, Kilkee -
    ROUD#9236 -- Mrs Eileen SHERIDAN, rec by Seamus Ennis, London 1956: (RPL
    LP 22363) - Irish traveller: LYRICHORD LL-178 1967 (3 v) "C of Duneen"
    - BARNBRACK Irish Party Sing-Song: CASS-60-0927 "C of Dooneen"
This seems like a fairly recent song, and it seems we should be able to find a source or a name of a songwriter. This Google Search (click) will take you to a number of Websites with lyrics that are more-or-less the same as what you'll find in the Digital Tradition. The Very Best Irish Songs and Ballads (Walton Publishing) has one different word in the first line:
    You may travel far, far from your own native home.
The Walton book says Dooneen Point lies six miles north of Ballybunion, County Kerry. The Walton book does not name a source for the song.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 08:50 PM

The Walton books are a lot better than the Soodlums (which are often, unfortunately, quoted here); they contain a higher proportion of real Irish songs than is usual in such collections, and sometimes even proper writer credits (less often for the English songs included, of course).

The earliest reference in Roud is to the 1956 recording mentioned above. Does anyone know of anything earlier? It obviously isn't a very old song. Cristy Moore got it from Andy Rynne, but said no more about its origins so far as I know.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 10:50 PM

Quote from Christy Moore's songbook/autobiography "One Voice":

...Mick McGuane was a punk whistle player before Johnny Lydon had hair, and he used to sing a verse about `dancehalls and cinemas' which I cannot find. Anne Mulqueen used to sing it in a Sean Nos style while Andy Rynne used to do a right job of it in the back of O'Donohue's or in Pat Dowling's of a Wednesday night. But don't go looking there for the magic, it has flown on the wind to calmer quarters...

Christy also states "Author unknown".

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 03:04 AM

I don't remember hearing mention of the author - nor or any earlier reference than those given above. Which is curious, alright. I'll have a look.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Peter T.
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 04:37 AM

Unless my ears deceive me, the Cliffs of Dooneen sound a heck of a lot like the Cliffs of Baccalieu, the Newfie song (Stan Rogers used to sing it)-- probably the former is before the latter, but.....?


yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 03:05 PM

I was curious about this a year or two back, and did an Internet search for "Dooneen". If I remember right I did find one in Co. Kerry, but on the Dingle Peninsula, which would be a good few miles south of Ballybunion. A recent web search gives a poem below which indicates there is a Dooneen on the Dingle Peninsula (relevant verse below).

The softly spoken Gaelic, tales of ships that sailed from Spain,
The ancient Church at Gallarus and Fuchia in the rain,
A school of glistening black canoes stranded at Dooneen,
And Brendan's Voyage from Brandon Creek for paradise unseen

My 1:5000 Irish Ordnance Survey Map No. 70 shows a "Dooneen Pier" at Grid Reference Q390092 in a west facing inlet on the north coast of the Dingle Peninsula, about a mile from Ballydavid and several miles along the coast from the above-mentioned Brandon Creek. The map does not show steep contours here so any cliffs if present are likely to be low.

As I have not been at the spot I cannot say whether one could see Kilkee and Kilrush, though this is perhaps possible. As far as I know there are cliffs on the Dingle Peninsula (certainly high mountains, as Mount Brandon rises to 3,127 feet) and it may be possible to see Kilrush and Kilkee from these.

Actually there is a Dooneen townland by the north coast of the Burren, Co. Clare, but it is on the coast where the coastline is low. With poetic license, one might call the parts of the rocky limestone hills nearby "cliffs", though I very much doubt if one could see Kilkee and Kilrush from them. I often stay at a guesthouse not far away (though just inside Co. Galway) and I asked the son of the guesthouse owner about this; he said he thought it did not refer to an actual place.

Irish OS Map No. 63 does show a Dooneen Point on the Shannon Estuary in Co. Kerry at Grid Reference Q884478 about 4 miles NNE of Ballybunion, and about 2 miles SW of Beal Point. The map shows contours sloping to the north rising up to 30 metres (about 100 feet) in the vicinity. I think it woule be stretching the point to call them cliffs, though they might possibly be rocky (I haven't visited them); they are certainly not on the same league as the Cliffs of Moher in Co. Clare, over 200 metres high. Kilkee is about 7-8 miles north of Dooneen Point, and Kilrush about the same distance to the north-east.

My own opinion as an outsider is that Dooneen Point near Ballybunion is the most likely candidate, but that the song writer used a bit of poetic license to call the area "The high rocky slopes of the CLIFFS of Dooneen". I suppose if they are rocky and sloping, then at least 2 of the 4 words used to describe them ("high, rocky, slopes, and cliffs") are correct.

It is interesting how little we know about the background of songs that presumably are written fairly recently. However songs are meant to be sung and enjoyed rather than analysed.

None of this should be regarded as conclusive. I also have been through Spancilhill in central Co. Clare and it seemed a rather flat and uninteresting place scenically.

The only town called Dooneen (according to an on-line directory http://uk.dir.yahoo.com/Regional/Countries/Ireland/Counties_and_Regions/County_Waterford/Cities_and_Towns/Dooneen/) is in Co. Waterford on the south coast of Ireland.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 05:11 PM

Well that narrows it down a lot.. it pissed down every sodding day that week!

LTS


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 05 - 06:17 AM

In the post at 3.05 pm on 28th January 2005, I should have said 1:50000, not 1:5000, maps (of the Irish Ordnance Survey).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Flash Company
Date: 29 Jan 05 - 09:45 AM

Totally irrelevant, but they used this tune extensively as background in a BBc2 programme about Castle Leslie last night.

FC


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,dhchaisson
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 11:40 PM

Oh well, all very interesting. I first heard the song sung in O'Flaherty's pub in Dingle in September of 1978. And I have heard it many more times since.That started me on a life long love of Irish folk songs, lead to the Wolftones, Clannard (whom I saw perform in a church basement in Harvard Square later that year) and of course Christy Moore and Donal Lunny, Mary Black and all the rest of them. I am preparing to return to Dingle on March 8th, I look forward to hearing it sung again. I was planning on walking out by Smerwick Harbor, if you like I will keep my eyes peeled for "'the high rocky slopes".


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: michaelr
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 07:46 PM

Martin Ryan et al -- any luck with the author search? I'd be very interested to find out how old the song actually is.

BTW, Dooneen is also mentioned in Sigerson Clifford's "The Boys of Barr na Sraide":

We searched for birds in every furze
From Litir to Dooneen


Where's Litir, then?

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Frances
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 04:06 PM

Hi,
The cliffs of Dooneen are indeed between Ballybunion and Beale in North Kerry. The song was written by a man by the name of Mc Auliffe, he was from Lixnaw, Co. Kerry but wrote the song when he was a laborour with a family named Joy, who lived close to Dooneen point.
In the old version of the song there is a verse that goes.


The sand hills of Beale are glorious and grand
and the old castle ruins stands out on the strand
It is there you will see every lad an colleen
moving round to the slopes by the cliffs of Duneen.

There was a copy of the original song in the Shannon side annuals around the 60s.
Enjoy the song,
Frances


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 09:07 PM

Frances -- ta for the info. Any idea when the song was written?

Slan,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 03:28 PM

I've never found these alleged cliffs either, unless whoever wrote the song was referring to the cliffs just outside Kilkee as you drive south out of the town. You drive up the hill, park by some rock pools (a couple of which are big enough for kids to swim in) and then walk uphill for a quarter of a mile or so.

The cliffs are indeed high and rocky and very jagged as well. Instead of a sheer drop in places they go down to the sea in layers and if you're careful you can climb down as far as the surf. Watch out for the holes in the shelves of rock as it's a sheer drop from them into the sea a couple of hundred feet below. Stunning place.

I've been there twice and both times the weather was glorious.

Don't take kids, though. It's far too dangerous.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Brían
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 05:39 PM

Litir or leitir is a hillside. I was at Spancilhill last week an it was no less remarkable than many other hills famed by folk-poets on either side of the Pond.

B


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 01:55 AM

Dooneen in "Barr na Sráide" is different from the one in "Cliffs".

"Leitir" (Letter, as in Letterkenny) is a townland just outside Cahersiveen. The Dooneen here is just north of the town.

btw, thanks Frances.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 03:38 AM

Let's clarify the geography!

Dooneen Point is 4 miles north of Ballybunion.

There are four townlands called Dooneen in Co. Kerry, but Dooneen Point isn't one of them! It's in the townland of Beal (not Beale), which is in the Parish of Kilconly.

A mile north east of Dooneen Point is Beal Point. Here are the ruins of an ancient castle. The relevant townland is Castlequarter.

Between Dooneen Point and Beal Point is Beal Bar, not a pub (!) but a two mile long sand bar.

East of Beal Point is a four mile long stretch of "golden" sands.

I have seen film of Dooneen Point and there are no cliffs as such, only rocks, but then, how do you define a cliff? I suspect "cliffs" is a little bit of poetic licence - "Rocks of Dooneen" doesn't have quite the same ring to it. "Sands of Dooneen" would be OK tho!

I am trying to source the relevant Shannon Side Annual. If I do, I'll post the information here.

btw, Kerry is the only County in Ireland that I've never been in, but that will be rectified soon.


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Subject:
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 08:52 AM


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Subject:
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 08:55 AM


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Aiden Gallagher Wimbledon, London, UK
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 08:52 PM

The cliffs of Dooneen are located at Allihies, on the coast of West Cork. This can be verified at www.heritagecouncil.ie/irelandscoastalgeology or something like that.
It is not a figment of the imiagination of the song writer.
I think you've been waiting a long time for this reply. Are you still there?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST, Aiden Gallagher UK
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 09:16 PM

Further to my earlier reply; I think all the contributors should organise a 'Dooneen Reunion' in Ireland to sort this mess out. Bring your evidence with you. Failing mutual agreement, an Indian Arm Wrestling competition should sort it out!. Failing that, we'll all get pissed and have a good craic!
Fond Regards,
Aiden.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Diddleedee
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 09:40 PM

I have joined up with the title Diddleedee.

Paroniod Android the web reference I gave you is incorrect. The correct address is:
www.heritagecouncil.ie/irelands_coastal_geology.pdf

Now how about that piss-up in Ireland?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Murphy
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:58 AM

There are several places throughout Ireland named Dooneen. (Little Fort). The only "Dooneen" that would have a view of Kilrush and Kilkee is Dooneen Point in north Kerry. I sang this song recently and was taken to task by a man who said he was from that locality (I sang two words incorrectly). When I told him that the cliffs don't really exist he insisted that they do and was highly offended. Because of his manner I did not ask him to elaborate as to size or height of the "cliffs"


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Artessss
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 07:30 PM

Thanks everyone, but nothing helps ME find the cliffs of Dooneen. Sounds a bit like an Irish tale...legend...I make movie cards and I'm using that song. I 'thought' I might add some to the movie by showing a 'real' picture and/or some kind of lore myself. It sounds a lot like all the beauty of Ireland. Thanks!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 03:36 AM

We recorded it from a young Traveller woman and annotated it as follows.
The information comes from Nichols Carolan at the ITMA in Dublin, who claimed that the song was brought into Clare by singer Siney Crotty.
"Dooneen Point is on the Kerry Coast, between Ballylongford and Ballybunnion at the Mouth of the River Shannon, giving excellent views of the South West of Clare, though it should be said that it is not possible to see Kilrush and Kilkee from this point as stated in verse two. This has been explained by suggesting that the song was originally located in Moveen, a few miles south west of Kilkee in Clare.
The song was first recorded in Dublin in the 1960s sung by Siney Crotty who came from Kilbaha, which is on the Clare side of the Shannon.   Since it's first appearance it has gained enormous popularity.   The Irish Traditional Music Archive has around one hundred and ninety commercial recordings of it."
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 08:07 PM

Plot thickens....


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Big Tim
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 11:18 AM


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Big Tim
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 11:22 AM

Sorry about the blip!

If the relevant Dooneen is in Cork, why does the great Kerry singer Peggy Sweeney, who has all sorts of local expert advisers to hand, include 'Cliffs of Dooneen' on her DVD 'Kerry a Kingdom in Song'?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 10:38 AM

Wanna have some fun?

First, download Google Earth onto your computer if you don't have it already. (but doesn't work for dial-up.)

I went to my Google Earth and told it to search for Dooneen County Kerry Ireland. It went to a town near the coast in SW Ireland. Go west down the river valley past Croaghaun and you will come to the coast.

Put your mouse on the north arrow and swing the whole picture so that the coast is on the bottom. Then put your mouse on the tilt bar and tilt the picture back. You will see the cliffs. To the south of Croaghaun is an eroded cove with a particularly spectactular plunge.

It is interesting to note the long thin fields along the river - a medieval landscape.

There's a very dark area south of Croaghaun with a loop road in it. Is that a peat-digging area?

I suggest that adherants of all the different sites proposed here look them up in Google Earth. It's fun.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Big Tim
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 12:15 PM

Google Earth, great idea!

Trouble is, when you look under 'Dooneen, County Kerry, Ireland', the Dooneen given is the one near Cahersiveen, which is many miles south of the County Clare coast and separated by Dingle Bay and hills close to 3000 feet, so Kilkee and Kilrush wouldn't be anywhere near visible.

As I said before, there are four townlands in Kerry named Dooneen.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 11:46 AM

There are 20 Dooneen placenames throughout Ireland from Fermanagh in the north to Waterford in the south.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 12:54 PM

Yes, it is a great idea.

I cannot look up four townlands and 20 placenames. Someone else take a turn now. If you find the right place, post the terms which enabled you to find it. Then we can all look.

I still want to know about the dark area south of Croghaun with the loop road in it.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 01:09 PM

One version, at least, of the words

You may travel far from your own native home
Far away o'er the mountains far away o'er the foam
But of all the fine places that I've ever been
There's none can compare with the cliffs of dooneen
It's a nice place to be on a fine summer's day
Watching all the wild flowers that ne'er do decay
Oh the hare and the pheasant are plain to be seen
Making homes for their young round the cliffs of dooneen
Take a view o'er the mountain fine sites you'll see there
Yes in a high rocky mountain in the west coast of clair
Oh the towns of kilkee and kilrush can be seen
From the high rocky slopes round the cliffs of dooneen
So fare thee well to dooneen fare thee well for a while
And althoug we are parted by the ragin sea wild
Once again I will wander with my irish colleen
Round the high rocky slopes of the cliffs of dooneen


Okay, it says:

1.'Oh the towns of kilkee and kilrush can be seen
From the high rocky slopes round the cliffs of dooneen'

That's pretty clear. Got to have Kilkee and Kilrush nearby.

But:

2.'Take a view o'er the mountain fine sites you'll see there
Yes in a high rocky mountain in the west coast of clair'

This is problematical. How is one to see over a mountain unless in an airplane? And why are we suddenly 'in' a mountain when we were just at the cliffs?

And just because we look over a high rocky mountain that's on the west coast of Clair doesn't mean we are actually in Clair.

3. I don't think that's how you spell Clare.

4. 'Once again I will wander with my irish colleen
Round the high rocky slopes of the cliffs of dooneen'

I don't think we can make it illegal because of censorship issues, but I think anybody that uses the word 'colleen' in lyrics should have to pay fee to the Starving Poets Aid Society. (Same applies to anybody who rhymes mountain with fountain.)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 02:22 PM

How would you know if you found the right place?

You don't have to look up the four Kerry townlands or the 16 in various other counties, because, probably, none of them are relevant.

If the song has any geographical credibility, which I believe it has, the relevant Dooneen has to be on the Kerry side of the Shannon estuary. 'Take a view o'er the Shannon, fine sights you'll see there'.

All suggestions are welcome but there has to be some evidence. At present, for me, Dooneen Point seems the most probable locale.

(Actually, this was a question that had intrigued me long before this Thread).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 03:20 PM

Sure I was born not three miles from the Cliffs of Dooneen, in Beal.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:58 PM

...which takes us back to the first post!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 05:07 AM

It's Kilkee, from the Irish 'Cill Chaoi', 'St. Caoi's church'. Not Kildee.

If the Dooneen boy was born in Beal, then Dooneen Point must surely be the correct place. ARE there any cliffs there?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Bert Fegg
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 03:50 PM

I'd be thoroughly amazed if anybody could see any cliffs on the banks of the Shannon from Kilkee!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 07:05 PM

Ahhh, you guys make me want to come and travel over those 'cliffs and rocky mountains' in search of Dooneen! Anyone have a website with pictures of Dooneen? Stories, tales, legends? I'm turning green...

Enjoy your banter...

Artessss


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 10:18 PM

Are you new to the web? Do you know about search engines, etc?

Googling 'Dooneen Ireland' yields this for a taste

http://www.dirl.com/kerry/dingle/an-dooneen.htm

Scroll down to see the landscape.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 03:40 AM

"Ahhh, you guys make me want to come and travel over those 'cliffs and rocky mountains' in search of Dooneen!"
Wherever it is, it's almost certainly part of the present philosophy over here of, 'Ooo look; a green field; let's build a couple of hundred holiday homes".
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 04:20 AM

I have 3 recording of'Cliffs'. Two, Christy Moore, and Peggy Sweeney, say 'take a view o'er the mountains'. The other, Noel Healey, says 'take a view o'er the Shannon'. Detailed topographical maps show only flat farmland and no mountains on either the Kerry or Clare side. I watched the Sweeney DVD again. It opens in Ballybunion, where there are some modest cliffs. This, I think, tells us that Dooneen must be in the Ballybunion area.

I agree with you Jim. I never go back to my old home in Donegal because I can barely see Lough Foyle from it any more because of new houses. It used to be an open view. And Muff is now virtually a suburb of Derry (tho the two are in different countries!)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 07:44 AM

Big Tim you will be pleased to know I am with you all the way, I put those other placenames in to `stir the pot`.
I have been around the area but never bothered to look, what you say makes sense. Henryetta Kildee?, never heard of it.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 08:38 AM

In answer to your question Big Tim, the Ciffs are there.

I walked them in the 50'

As you get to Beal Point, a long rock juts out and is known as
the Goats Back.

On my next trip I will take some photos.

I have one now, taken last year from Beal strand looking westward.

Do not be misled that Dooneen is in Cork.If they can't have the
Sam Maguire they might be trying to claim something just as beautiful


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 09:43 AM

Thanks Ard and Dooneen boy.

I'm going to source the relevant Shannonside Annual. The article there should answer all our questions. However, it's a snail mail job, so give me a few weeks.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 10:34 AM

I was on the cover of the Shannonside Annual.

Missing verse:

I have traced my loves' footsteps to the boathouse of old
And the dance on the hillside, where love stories were told
Where the hare and the rabbit and old carrigeen'
All grow on the slopes 'round the Cliffs of Dooneen

If a Dooneen reunion occurs that Cork man will be very lonley.
He should bring a mirror.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 12:12 PM

Thanks again Dooneen boy. Can you tell us what year the article was in the Shannonside Annual?

Con Dee had a couple of articles in the SA (1958, 1960) about the Valley of Knockanure, which Peggy Sweeney sings on location in her DVD referred to above. No, I'm not on commission, she's just a lovely singer.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 02:04 PM

Big Tim, you seem to know your way around the area.
Are we neighbours?.

Beal means: Hatchet shaped cliff. ( More proof )

There was a Beal Bar. ( Pub)

There is another verse. Some of the word I mixed into the last one.
When I get it right I will post it.

Lissadoneen= Lios a Duinin. Fort of the little Dun(e) in Beal


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 08:07 PM

I have browsed some of the notes in this site, and things need to be set straight.

Duneen and Litter in "Barr na Sraide" are of the area.

Litter is Litter Strand, a stones throw from Beal and a half a stones throw from Asdee, depending the size of the stone.

Big Tim, I was on the cover 1957-58
( Damm I'm getting old )
Not sure if The Cliffs were covered in that issue.
I will find out.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 04:08 AM

I've never been in Kerry but I can read a map (and watch a DVD)!

Re Barr na Sráide, it's just a coincidence that there is both a Dooneen and a Letter in the Beal area. The song isn't set there. The two place names in Barr na Sráide are in fact both just outside Cahirsiveen, definitely. Cahersiveen was home to Sigerson Clifford who wrote that song and he was writing about his home town. Since 'letter' means 'hillside' there are hundreds of them in Ireland (and Scotland). I have checked the background of Barr na Sráide with the great Kerry singer Tim Dennehy who is from Cahersiveen and who knew Clifford personally and who has made a CD of his songs. Tim's a fine singer but an even better songwriter, check his website).

The Peggy Sweeney DVD also includes Boys of Barr na Sráide and shows nice footage of Cahersiveen, including the street nameplate Barr na Sráide, the street where Sigerson Clifford grew up.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:52 AM

Big Tim I stand corrected on Barr na Sraide.

You should visit Kerry and view the cliffs


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 12:25 PM

I intend to DB. As I said above, I've been in the other 31 counties.
Mainly, I want to see Cahersiveen, Knockanure and Dooneen. I'm just going to get into the car this summer and go (from Scotland). Actually, there's a place beside me here in Argyll called Gairletter, means something like 'short hillside'.

I've emailed Kerry County Library about Cliffs of Dooneen. They've been very helpful in the past so hopefully I'll have a pile of info soon, which I'll post here, if you don't beat me to it!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 12:34 PM

Big Tim you are right about Peggy Sweeney and The Valley of Knocknure, brilliant.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 04:03 PM

I guess we're not neighbours.

We just miss each other by 4000mls. approx.

I hope you enjoy your trip to Duneen.

Hope to make a trip this year.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 05:30 PM

Bit of a digression here, threadrift, only slightly cos it's still about Kerry music.

I can't recommend Tim Dennehy too highly. My favourite album of his is called 'Blue Green Door'. This includes some little known but very good traditional songs, like 'Carden's Wild Domain' and the totally georgeous but tragic 'Boating on Lough Ree'.

Also included are two great original songs written by Tim. I'm sure he won't mind me quoting some personal stuff about him as he has already published his lyrics in his sleeve notes.

1. 'The Parted Years' (a tribute to his mother, opening verse)

If you should come at autumn time when yellowed leaves do fall,
And the first frost glistens on the heel-trod ground,
I will hear you call...

And I will take your hand and walk,
through all the parted years,
and the rich earth lying between us shall,
drink our lonely tears.

2. 'Memorial' (dedicated to Tim's brother Pat who died in 1968, aged 17)

A cold spring wind now shoves the gate,
As it has done since sixty-eight...


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,henryettta
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 10:32 AM

Ard macha, you asked:

Henryetta Kildee?, never heard of it.

What you do in a case like that is double click on my name, where it's underlined and blue. That will show my previous posts. Look at my previous post and you will see that a killdee is a bird.

=====
Now then. If 'Kill' is 'cell,' is Killarney the cell of Arnie? Norwegian monk who moved south?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 11:06 AM

kildeeR

Regards


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 05:47 PM

Henryetta, I thought you were referring to placenames.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 09:50 PM

Kildeer looks like a lapwing (Peewit).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 09:56 PM

Please translate!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 08:05 AM

Beal is in the Parish of Ballybunion


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 08:20 AM

Just to throw a small linguistic spanner into the works, Dooneen may be one of those placenames that repeats all over the country - the word in Irish means a little fort.

The Kerry poet Brendan Kennelly was talking on last Saturday's The Poetry Programme on RTE Radio 1 about how he used to write poems about people's tiny native townland or village for them to take away with them to Australia or America. Perhaps in the future people will be arguing about where these long-forgotten places are.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 09:01 AM

My dad told me when I left, "Always respect where you are, but never forget where you came from"


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 11:38 AM

Perhaps the cliffs are less lofty for this reason?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_erosion


Many thanks to those above who contributed extra verses!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 12:31 PM

Townlands aren't too difficult to find nowadays as all 60,000+ are on the web (and marked on the OS maps).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 08:12 PM

MartinRyan, thanks for the link to the bird photos. They are just beautiful.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:36 AM

Leeneia,

You're welcome - another of my minor obsessions!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:38 AM

"Dooneen. WHERE?"
It's in the next parish to The Big Rock candy Mountain.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 03:46 PM

Well blow me over with a feather. I thought Dooneen was sort of mythical, like Glaucamora or Brigadoon (are they???). Never knew it was for real. I also thought it was one of those Bing Crosbyish songs we were not supposed to like although I do like them. My ancestors on my father's father's side are from I believe the westernmost part of the Kingdom of Kerry in Ballyferriter, Dingle. How close would that be? I hope to get to Ireland this very year with an exact destination for once....mg


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 03:22 PM

It's about an hour and a half drive.

Happy St. Patrick's Day from The Catskills New York


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 03:56 PM

Kerry Libraries still haven't replied to my email. Maybe I'll get something in the post.

I watched the BBC Northern Ireland News a short time ago. Hundreds of people walked up Slemish Mountain, Antrim, where St. Patrick worked as a slave swine herder, maybe. And both newsreaders were wearing shamrocks. The times they are a-changin'.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 04:06 PM

They sure are.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 10:19 AM

The times I mean.....


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 11:02 AM

I have a phpto of the Cliffs.
How do I share it?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 12:19 PM

It can be done by email. However, it's probably not advisable to put email addresses on a public forum like Mudcat. You could join Mudcat and then exchange email addresses by Personal Message between Mudcat only members. (it's simple to use).

Someone with more tech know how than I may be able to suggest alternatives.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Dooneen Boy
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 07:34 PM

OK I'll do that when I get back to home base.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:35 PM

There are several photo-sharing sites on the web. You need but sign up.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 10:42 AM

Still no word from Kerry Libraries. I'll going to write to them.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 12:11 PM

Got an email from Kerry Libraries today. They checked the bank numbers of the Shannonside Annual but found no article on 'Cliffs of Dooneen' there. All they have on the song is the lyrics.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,thomaspierce09
Date: 09 May 08 - 08:50 PM

they are located in beal, 3 miles north of ballybunion on my neighbours land. i've been to them about a million times and you can see claire eassily, the dooneen cliffs are very high giving a very good view point and is overlooked by beal wind farm.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 30 May 08 - 06:43 PM

I'm back.

09 and I know where they are.

West of the Station!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Dooneen Boy
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 08:14 PM

I will walk them again in about three weeks.

I will take some photo's.

Big Tim you should join me.

09 u should pose.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Dooneen Boy
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 08:17 AM

To whom it may concern,

The cliffs are still there.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,David Ingerson
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 02:19 AM

Fascinating thread! Thanks everyone.

This was one of the first Irish songs I learned (back in '79) but I let it lapse because of how popular it had become. I always did like it, though, just like mg. Now maybe with another rare verse....

Cheers,

David


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 11:37 AM

Yes indeed doon and dooneen are townlands north of ballybunion, only a few miles away. the whole coastline is littered with promintery forts such as lick castle etc...and very very rocky
my mothers family are from kilconly parish at leansechane a skip and a jump down from beal

absolutely beautiful area


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Subject: Lyr Add: CLIFFS OF DOONEEN (Jack McAuliffe)
From: Captain Pugwash
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 11:21 PM

Living in Kilkee and working in Kilrush, as well as having friends in North Kerry and knowing several people who sing the song, I've been curious about The Cliffs of Dooneen for some time myself.

Finally, I've recently been sent Jack McAuliffe's supposedly "original" words, which prove to be those of a significantly different "Kerry" version of the "Clare" song that most people are familiar with. Indeed, has anybody ever heard the McAuliffe version sung?

THE CLIFFS OF DOONEEN, by Jack McAuliffe:

Verse 1

I have travelled afar from my own native home.
Away o'er the billows, away o'er the foam
I have seen many sights but no equal I've seen
To the old rocky slopes by the cliffs of Dooneen.

Verse 2

I have seen many sights of Columbus fair land,
Africa and Egypt so Delightful and grand,
But dig me a grave were the grass it grows green
On the old rocky slopes by the cliffs of Dooneen.

Verse 3

How pleasant to walk on a fine summer's day,
And to view the sweet cherries that will never decay,
Where the seagrass and seaweed and the old carrageen
All grow from the rocks by the cliffs of Dooneen.

Verse 4

The Sandhills of Beal are glorious and grand,
And the old castle ruins looking out on the strand,
Where the hares and the rabbits are there to be seen
Making holes for their homes by the cliffs of Dooneen.

Verse 5

I have tracked my love's footsteps to the boathouse of old
And the dance on the hillside where love stories are told,
It's there you will see both the lad and the colleen
Moving round by the shore of the cliffs of Dooneen

Verse 6

Farewell Dooneen, Farewell for a while,
And to those kind-Hearted neighbours that I left in the isle,
Ma my soul never rest till it's laid on the green
Near the old rocky slopes by the Cliffs of Dooneen

Notice that these words make no claim to be able to see Kilrush, Kilkee or anywhere else in Clare, whilst all the places described in the usual version of the song can be seen from Moveen, outside Kilkee.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Big Tim
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 10:35 AM

Thanks Captain Pugwash, most interesting!

Can you elaborate in any way on the source, authenticity, etc, of the lyrics that you posted?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Captain Pugwash
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 01:13 AM

Big Tim,

I was sent the words by someone I don't know, through the internet. I've (today) asked them for more information, but similar verses have already been quoted here...

Oh, and by the way, I've stood at Dooneen Point with binoculars - you can make out the mouth of Kilrush Creek alright, though not the town itself, however Kilkee lies in a hollow and there are hills in between, so it isn't visible from there.

The only vantage point from which you can see all the sights described in the more usual versions of the song - "a view o'er the Shannon", "the high rocky mountains o'er the west coast of Clare", "the towns of Kilkee and Kilrush" and "the high rocky slopes round the cliffs" - is Moveen Hill (which is the view from the back of my house) and the spectacular cliffs beside it are at Doonaghboy.

(Doonaghboy + Moveen = ?)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 06:59 PM

It is there if you want to see it.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 02:26 PM

Came across this completely by accident - I'm from Kilkee

The Geographical/topographical anomalies pointed out are correct. Kilkee and Kilrush cannot be seen from the coast of Kerry. They can however be seen from the Hill of Moveen outside Kilkee, apparently the original title of the song.


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Subject: Lyr Add: CLIFFS OF DOONEEN (Jack McAuliffe)
From: GUEST,dooneen.com
Date: 23 Nov 08 - 04:09 PM

The Cliffs of Dooneen

I have traveled afar from my own native home.
Away o'er the billows, away o'er the foam
I have seen many sights but no equal I've seen
To the old rocky slopes by the cliffs of Dooneen

I have seen many sights of Columbus fair land,
Africa and Asia so delightful and grand,
But dig me a grave were the grass it grows green
On the old rocky slopes by the cliffs of Dooneen.

How pleasant to walk on a fine summers day.
And to view the sweet cherries that will never decay,
Where the sea grass and seaweed and the old carrageen
All grow from the rocks by the cliffs of Dooneen.

The Sand hills of Beal are glorious and grand,
And the old castle ruins looking out on the strand,
Where the hares and the rabbits are there to be seen
Making holes for their homes by the cliffs of Dooneen.

I have tracked my love's footsteps to the boathouse of old
And the dance on the hillside where love stories are told,
Its there you will see both the lad and the colleen
Moving round by the shore of the cliffs of Dooneen

Take a view across the Shannon some sites you will see there
High rocky mountains on the south coast of Clare
The towns of Kilrush and Kilkee ever green
But theres none to compare with the cliffs of Dooneen

Farewell Dooneen, Farewell for a while,
And to those kind-Hearted neighbours that I left in the isle,
May my soul never rest till it's laid on the green
Near the old rocky slopes by the Cliffs of Dooneen


Jack McAuliffe
check out Dooneen.com for photo of Kilkee from North Kerry


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 12:43 PM

We have rowed accross the Shannon, keeping Kilrush in sight all the time.

Someone skipped geography class.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,ellen (crotty) connolly
Date: 04 Apr 09 - 05:51 PM

Siney Crotty was my uncle, brother of my late father, unfortunately i never really got to know him but would love to learn more about him and his music. email connollyellen@hotmail.com


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Liam Ohainnin Germany formely beale
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 03:30 AM

Hallo I have a recording of my grand uncle Tom Hannon singing The cliffs Of Dooneen .Recorded on a grundig tape recorder around 1958.I am also quite sure the song was braught to Clare by him and the othe beale fishermen who were regular visitors to Kilrush,Doonaha,Carrigaholt and Kilkee .these towns were nearer to us than asdee and ballybunnion,they also went to the fairs and often to mass in clare


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Dooneen Boy
Date: 18 Oct 09 - 04:14 PM

Hi Bill,

Greetings from New York and late of the Station.( any clues )

Get on personal page, give me a shout.



Sean O M


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Big Tom
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 07:03 PM

Ye're all wrong


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Oct 09 - 04:23 PM

Ah now there's some helpful info, Big Tom. Thanks a lot.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Dooneen Boy
Date: 26 Oct 09 - 07:04 PM

Wrong about what?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Dooneen Boy
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 06:57 PM

That's what I thought, nothing wrong.

The cliffs are in Beal, Co. Kerry
Always have.


You're serve!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Michael O'Connell
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 03:03 PM

The Cliffs of Donneen are in North Kerry on the Banks of the Shannon Estuary This is an explanation about the arguments on the song and location. I wrote this on another site
Well the words of the song were composed here on the Loop Head Peninsula. It was about the Cliffs of Moveen a local scenic spot just south west of Kilkee. There were many verses to song some now lost, maybe composed in late 1800's or early 1900's and good trad singers from the area were able to give the full version. Huge emigration from West Clare to England in the '40's '50's and 60's they brought the words with them. It was sung around London in those decades and cute Kerry h...r switched the word Moveen to Dooneen. Christy Moore must have come across the plagiarized version and had it on one of his early albums with Plaxnty in the '70s. As they say the rest is history. Cliffs of Dooneen are across in Kerry from Carrigaholt approx at the Mouth of the Shannon. The topography is right if The Cliffs of Moveen version is sung. You can see the Towns of Kilrush and Kilkee from Moveen not from Dooneen. You can't see Kilkee from Dooneen. One thing both places have in common is they rest on shale sandstone rock which is unique to the area, in that there are only two other places in the world where that particular rock is exposed above sea level. Geologists come from all over the world to study the rock in this area because of its accessibility especially those involved in the oil industry.
But if people want to believe that Cliffs of Dooneen are in Clare why not! There is enough of counties around us trying to claim bits of Co Clare. Up The Banner
Michael O'Connell a native of Corca Baiscinn.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 06:22 PM

Thank you Michael. I believe we can consider the matter settled now.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Late_to_the_party
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 02:37 AM

Hi. I found your Forum today and learned alot about one of my all-time favorite songs, "Cliffs of Dooneen", and the whereabouts of Dooneen and the cliffs of Moveen, too. Thanks! Great stuff!

Now, an aside to Henryetta (and any other curious folk):

I was told many years ago that the "Kil" in Irish town names means "church". In olden times, churches were of central importance to the existance, organization, and prosperity of towns. All birth, death, and marriage information was recorded and maintained by the local church. And, I imagine that this was also where town issues were presented and resolved, given the strength of the church at that time. So, it makes sense that the town names were, in essense, an acknowledgement that the church was the focal point of each community. To find the church was much the same as finding the town "center".

Thanks for letting me "chime in". BTW, who is this Arnie? ;-)

===== From Henryetta:
Now then. If 'Kill' is 'cell,' is Killarney the cell of Arnie? Norwegian monk who moved south?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Fiolar
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 09:21 AM

Guest, Late to the party: Killarney means means "Church of the Sloes". The church was probably built near blackthorn bushes from which the sloe is obtained.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Murphy
Date: 08 May 10 - 06:27 AM

This thread is now over 5 years old and despite the numerous contributions I have not yet seen a photograph of the "CLIFFS".
Yes, Dooneen Point, near Beal is the "location" of the song and
it would seem that cliffs are in fact a few rocks on a beach.
Has anyone got a link to any photograph of the location?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,luap, MIltown Malbay
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 08:50 AM

By the way Dooneen.com shows a photograph of Kilkee "from the north slopes of Kerry". This is absolutely false. The photograph is taken from Carrigaholt road just outside Kilkee and is a well known view to anyone local to the area. There is no way this photograph can be taken from anywhere in Kerry. Kilkee in all likelihood cannot be seen from anywhere in Kerry (even Mt. Brandon), since the town is at sea level and the southern side is obscured by the hills that form the Kilkee cliffs (approx 40m).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 09:02 PM

As you drive out of Ballybunion on the road to Beal, just where the Triple Road goes off to the right there is an ruined church. This was Doon church which stands on the cliffe of Doon.

In Ireland the suffix of "een" meening small is added to the end of a name as a sign of affectiion. For example Seaneen, Timeen (small Sean, small Tim). So the cliffs of Dooneen is a affectionit name for the cliffs of Doon.

By the way for all you Irish buffs, this church is named in the short story The Quiet Man from which the movie of the same name was made. The story of the Quiet man was set around Balybunion and in the area that the author Maurice Walsh was born. In the story he sees Mary Kate Danahur at Doon Church,


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 03:43 AM

With regards to photographs, I have a number of pictures of the cliffs around Ballybunion, right down the coast and the Mouth of the Shannon down from BallyB.

Thee are loads of caves at sea-level and there's the Devil and the Devil's Footstool.

The pictures were all taken from a boat and from that angle I wouldn't be sure which would be the exact location of the spot described in the song.

I can put a few on-line for a while if you like, just so you can get the general feel of the area.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: buddhuu
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 05:35 AM

I for one would like to see them, Peter. Always a pleasure to see some of your pics.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 09:27 AM

This location would probably come closest to pin pointing the answer to the original question of this thread. Courtesy of the Ordnance Survey of Ireland's magnificent website. Zoom in or out at will for more detail or overview as required.

The photographs I have (mentioned above) were all taken within a mile, half a mile from that location and I will post a link them here shortly.

www.geograph.org.uk also offers great maps with user submitted photographs. Didn't check for this location but an astounding array of locations is covered.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 09:50 AM

Here are a few snaps of the stretch of coast and Cliff just north and North East of Ballybunion, Co Kerry. I have more but this will give an idea of the terrain.

I'll keep them there for a few weeks.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 08:39 AM

Doon Point to Beal Point and surrounding area on geograph.co.uk for some clifftop view photographs where my own pics were at sea level.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 05:52 PM

Thank you for posting those photos, Peter. The area looks as lovely as the song claims it to be.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 03:56 AM

You're welcome. I didn't add any shot of the north side of the Shannon but can add some views of Moveen and general area (from dry land this time).

Rinevella bay, for example, right across the Shannon on this side (the Clare side) has the huge stumps of a medieval oak forest sitting in the tidal zone.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 10:51 AM

Dooneen is indeed in Kerry, but the term 'cliffs' is just poetic license as is much of the song


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 10:10 AM

they are in Clondalkin.. Just off the side of the M50 motor way down near the Canal.. I thought everyone knew that..


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 04:24 PM

Hailing frtom Kilkenny and journeying back often, Geography in Ireland is not to be confused with what's taught in schools. '5 minutes down that road' can be several miles, 'a mile' can be 50 yards, likewise mountains are usually little more than hills, and cliffs any decent sized pile of rocks. So when place names are lauded in song, usually from emnotional or romantic reasons or both, they tend to assume a size and greatness, and beauty, often far beyond what the geographical eye might see. And a great thing it is, how duller would the songs sound if written by text book geography e.g
'Where those big mounds of Mourne sweep down to the sea'

'round the rocky little dunes on the hill near Doneen'

or
'in Dublin's traffic logged dirty city, where the girls are so gritty'

You get my drift


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,maureen
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 03:52 PM

Well, my grandfather is John Clifford from Dooneen, Caherciveen, Kerry!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Ej
Date: 11 Jun 11 - 12:38 AM

I lived in a townland called dooneen in west cork for 3 years . And christy sang to us all in a pub there. Right. .... The cliffs of dooneen.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Ellie
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 09:14 PM

LOL - as a kid growing up I always believe the song was written about a beach in Co. Donegal which my family knew as Dooneen, right around the corner from Sliabh League, the highest sea cliffs in Europe. Well, it made sense to me :)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 09:30 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliffs_of_Dooneen

Check out the above link. They are located near Ballybunion in N


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Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Jim Martin
Date: 05 Oct 15 - 06:41 AM

Great pics Peter Laban - just caught up with them as when you posted, my internet connection was too slow to download them (not much faster now)!


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