Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 04:06 PM

They sure are.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 03:56 PM

Kerry Libraries still haven't replied to my email. Maybe I'll get something in the post.

I watched the BBC Northern Ireland News a short time ago. Hundreds of people walked up Slemish Mountain, Antrim, where St. Patrick worked as a slave swine herder, maybe. And both newsreaders were wearing shamrocks. The times they are a-changin'.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 03:22 PM

It's about an hour and a half drive.

Happy St. Patrick's Day from The Catskills New York

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 03:46 PM

Well blow me over with a feather. I thought Dooneen was sort of mythical, like Glaucamora or Brigadoon (are they???). Never knew it was for real. I also thought it was one of those Bing Crosbyish songs we were not supposed to like although I do like them. My ancestors on my father's father's side are from I believe the westernmost part of the Kingdom of Kerry in Ballyferriter, Dingle. How close would that be? I hope to get to Ireland this very year with an exact destination for once....mg

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:38 AM

"Dooneen. WHERE?"
It's in the next parish to The Big Rock candy Mountain.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:36 AM

Leeneia,

You're welcome - another of my minor obsessions!

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 08:12 PM

MartinRyan, thanks for the link to the bird photos. They are just beautiful.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 12:31 PM

Townlands aren't too difficult to find nowadays as all 60,000+ are on the web (and marked on the OS maps).

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 11:38 AM

Perhaps the cliffs are less lofty for this reason?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_erosion


Many thanks to those above who contributed extra verses!

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 09:01 AM

My dad told me when I left, "Always respect where you are, but never forget where you came from"

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 08:20 AM

Just to throw a small linguistic spanner into the works, Dooneen may be one of those placenames that repeats all over the country - the word in Irish means a little fort.

The Kerry poet Brendan Kennelly was talking on last Saturday's The Poetry Programme on RTE Radio 1 about how he used to write poems about people's tiny native townland or village for them to take away with them to Australia or America. Perhaps in the future people will be arguing about where these long-forgotten places are.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 08:05 AM

Beal is in the Parish of Ballybunion

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 09:56 PM

Please translate!

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 09:50 PM

Kildeer looks like a lapwing (Peewit).

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 05:47 PM

Henryetta, I thought you were referring to placenames.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 11:06 AM

kildeeR

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,henryettta
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 10:32 AM

Ard macha, you asked:

Henryetta Kildee?, never heard of it.

What you do in a case like that is double click on my name, where it's underlined and blue. That will show my previous posts. Look at my previous post and you will see that a killdee is a bird.

=====
Now then. If 'Kill' is 'cell,' is Killarney the cell of Arnie? Norwegian monk who moved south?

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 05:30 PM

Bit of a digression here, threadrift, only slightly cos it's still about Kerry music.

I can't recommend Tim Dennehy too highly. My favourite album of his is called 'Blue Green Door'. This includes some little known but very good traditional songs, like 'Carden's Wild Domain' and the totally georgeous but tragic 'Boating on Lough Ree'.

Also included are two great original songs written by Tim. I'm sure he won't mind me quoting some personal stuff about him as he has already published his lyrics in his sleeve notes.

1. 'The Parted Years' (a tribute to his mother, opening verse)

If you should come at autumn time when yellowed leaves do fall,
And the first frost glistens on the heel-trod ground,
I will hear you call...

And I will take your hand and walk,
through all the parted years,
and the rich earth lying between us shall,
drink our lonely tears.

2. 'Memorial' (dedicated to Tim's brother Pat who died in 1968, aged 17)

A cold spring wind now shoves the gate,
As it has done since sixty-eight...

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 04:03 PM

I guess we're not neighbours.

We just miss each other by 4000mls. approx.

I hope you enjoy your trip to Duneen.

Hope to make a trip this year.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 12:34 PM

Big Tim you are right about Peggy Sweeney and The Valley of Knocknure, brilliant.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 12:25 PM

I intend to DB. As I said above, I've been in the other 31 counties.
Mainly, I want to see Cahersiveen, Knockanure and Dooneen. I'm just going to get into the car this summer and go (from Scotland). Actually, there's a place beside me here in Argyll called Gairletter, means something like 'short hillside'.

I've emailed Kerry County Library about Cliffs of Dooneen. They've been very helpful in the past so hopefully I'll have a pile of info soon, which I'll post here, if you don't beat me to it!

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:52 AM

Big Tim I stand corrected on Barr na Sraide.

You should visit Kerry and view the cliffs

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 04:08 AM

I've never been in Kerry but I can read a map (and watch a DVD)!

Re Barr na Sráide, it's just a coincidence that there is both a Dooneen and a Letter in the Beal area. The song isn't set there. The two place names in Barr na Sráide are in fact both just outside Cahirsiveen, definitely. Cahersiveen was home to Sigerson Clifford who wrote that song and he was writing about his home town. Since 'letter' means 'hillside' there are hundreds of them in Ireland (and Scotland). I have checked the background of Barr na Sráide with the great Kerry singer Tim Dennehy who is from Cahersiveen and who knew Clifford personally and who has made a CD of his songs. Tim's a fine singer but an even better songwriter, check his website).

The Peggy Sweeney DVD also includes Boys of Barr na Sráide and shows nice footage of Cahersiveen, including the street nameplate Barr na Sráide, the street where Sigerson Clifford grew up.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 08:07 PM

I have browsed some of the notes in this site, and things need to be set straight.

Duneen and Litter in "Barr na Sraide" are of the area.

Litter is Litter Strand, a stones throw from Beal and a half a stones throw from Asdee, depending the size of the stone.

Big Tim, I was on the cover 1957-58
( Damm I'm getting old )
Not sure if The Cliffs were covered in that issue.
I will find out.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 02:04 PM

Big Tim, you seem to know your way around the area.
Are we neighbours?.

Beal means: Hatchet shaped cliff. ( More proof )

There was a Beal Bar. ( Pub)

There is another verse. Some of the word I mixed into the last one.
When I get it right I will post it.

Lissadoneen= Lios a Duinin. Fort of the little Dun(e) in Beal

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 12:12 PM

Thanks again Dooneen boy. Can you tell us what year the article was in the Shannonside Annual?

Con Dee had a couple of articles in the SA (1958, 1960) about the Valley of Knockanure, which Peggy Sweeney sings on location in her DVD referred to above. No, I'm not on commission, she's just a lovely singer.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 10:34 AM

I was on the cover of the Shannonside Annual.

Missing verse:

I have traced my loves' footsteps to the boathouse of old
And the dance on the hillside, where love stories were told
Where the hare and the rabbit and old carrigeen'
All grow on the slopes 'round the Cliffs of Dooneen

If a Dooneen reunion occurs that Cork man will be very lonley.
He should bring a mirror.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 09:43 AM

Thanks Ard and Dooneen boy.

I'm going to source the relevant Shannonside Annual. The article there should answer all our questions. However, it's a snail mail job, so give me a few weeks.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 08:38 AM

In answer to your question Big Tim, the Ciffs are there.

I walked them in the 50'

As you get to Beal Point, a long rock juts out and is known as
the Goats Back.

On my next trip I will take some photos.

I have one now, taken last year from Beal strand looking westward.

Do not be misled that Dooneen is in Cork.If they can't have the
Sam Maguire they might be trying to claim something just as beautiful

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 07:44 AM

Big Tim you will be pleased to know I am with you all the way, I put those other placenames in to `stir the pot`.
I have been around the area but never bothered to look, what you say makes sense. Henryetta Kildee?, never heard of it.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 04:20 AM

I have 3 recording of'Cliffs'. Two, Christy Moore, and Peggy Sweeney, say 'take a view o'er the mountains'. The other, Noel Healey, says 'take a view o'er the Shannon'. Detailed topographical maps show only flat farmland and no mountains on either the Kerry or Clare side. I watched the Sweeney DVD again. It opens in Ballybunion, where there are some modest cliffs. This, I think, tells us that Dooneen must be in the Ballybunion area.

I agree with you Jim. I never go back to my old home in Donegal because I can barely see Lough Foyle from it any more because of new houses. It used to be an open view. And Muff is now virtually a suburb of Derry (tho the two are in different countries!)

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 03:40 AM

"Ahhh, you guys make me want to come and travel over those 'cliffs and rocky mountains' in search of Dooneen!"
Wherever it is, it's almost certainly part of the present philosophy over here of, 'Ooo look; a green field; let's build a couple of hundred holiday homes".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 10:18 PM

Are you new to the web? Do you know about search engines, etc?

Googling 'Dooneen Ireland' yields this for a taste

http://www.dirl.com/kerry/dingle/an-dooneen.htm

Scroll down to see the landscape.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 07:05 PM

Ahhh, you guys make me want to come and travel over those 'cliffs and rocky mountains' in search of Dooneen! Anyone have a website with pictures of Dooneen? Stories, tales, legends? I'm turning green...

Enjoy your banter...

Artessss

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Bert Fegg
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 03:50 PM

I'd be thoroughly amazed if anybody could see any cliffs on the banks of the Shannon from Kilkee!

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 05:07 AM

It's Kilkee, from the Irish 'Cill Chaoi', 'St. Caoi's church'. Not Kildee.

If the Dooneen boy was born in Beal, then Dooneen Point must surely be the correct place. ARE there any cliffs there?

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:58 PM

...which takes us back to the first post!

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 03:20 PM

Sure I was born not three miles from the Cliffs of Dooneen, in Beal.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 02:22 PM

How would you know if you found the right place?

You don't have to look up the four Kerry townlands or the 16 in various other counties, because, probably, none of them are relevant.

If the song has any geographical credibility, which I believe it has, the relevant Dooneen has to be on the Kerry side of the Shannon estuary. 'Take a view o'er the Shannon, fine sights you'll see there'.

All suggestions are welcome but there has to be some evidence. At present, for me, Dooneen Point seems the most probable locale.

(Actually, this was a question that had intrigued me long before this Thread).

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 01:09 PM

One version, at least, of the words

You may travel far from your own native home
Far away o'er the mountains far away o'er the foam
But of all the fine places that I've ever been
There's none can compare with the cliffs of dooneen
It's a nice place to be on a fine summer's day
Watching all the wild flowers that ne'er do decay
Oh the hare and the pheasant are plain to be seen
Making homes for their young round the cliffs of dooneen
Take a view o'er the mountain fine sites you'll see there
Yes in a high rocky mountain in the west coast of clair
Oh the towns of kilkee and kilrush can be seen
From the high rocky slopes round the cliffs of dooneen
So fare thee well to dooneen fare thee well for a while
And althoug we are parted by the ragin sea wild
Once again I will wander with my irish colleen
Round the high rocky slopes of the cliffs of dooneen


Okay, it says:

1.'Oh the towns of kilkee and kilrush can be seen
From the high rocky slopes round the cliffs of dooneen'

That's pretty clear. Got to have Kilkee and Kilrush nearby.

But:

2.'Take a view o'er the mountain fine sites you'll see there
Yes in a high rocky mountain in the west coast of clair'

This is problematical. How is one to see over a mountain unless in an airplane? And why are we suddenly 'in' a mountain when we were just at the cliffs?

And just because we look over a high rocky mountain that's on the west coast of Clair doesn't mean we are actually in Clair.

3. I don't think that's how you spell Clare.

4. 'Once again I will wander with my irish colleen
Round the high rocky slopes of the cliffs of dooneen'

I don't think we can make it illegal because of censorship issues, but I think anybody that uses the word 'colleen' in lyrics should have to pay fee to the Starving Poets Aid Society. (Same applies to anybody who rhymes mountain with fountain.)

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 12:54 PM

Yes, it is a great idea.

I cannot look up four townlands and 20 placenames. Someone else take a turn now. If you find the right place, post the terms which enabled you to find it. Then we can all look.

I still want to know about the dark area south of Croghaun with the loop road in it.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 11:46 AM

There are 20 Dooneen placenames throughout Ireland from Fermanagh in the north to Waterford in the south.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Big Tim
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 12:15 PM

Google Earth, great idea!

Trouble is, when you look under 'Dooneen, County Kerry, Ireland', the Dooneen given is the one near Cahersiveen, which is many miles south of the County Clare coast and separated by Dingle Bay and hills close to 3000 feet, so Kilkee and Kilrush wouldn't be anywhere near visible.

As I said before, there are four townlands in Kerry named Dooneen.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 10:38 AM

Wanna have some fun?

First, download Google Earth onto your computer if you don't have it already. (but doesn't work for dial-up.)

I went to my Google Earth and told it to search for Dooneen County Kerry Ireland. It went to a town near the coast in SW Ireland. Go west down the river valley past Croaghaun and you will come to the coast.

Put your mouse on the north arrow and swing the whole picture so that the coast is on the bottom. Then put your mouse on the tilt bar and tilt the picture back. You will see the cliffs. To the south of Croaghaun is an eroded cove with a particularly spectactular plunge.

It is interesting to note the long thin fields along the river - a medieval landscape.

There's a very dark area south of Croaghaun with a loop road in it. Is that a peat-digging area?

I suggest that adherants of all the different sites proposed here look them up in Google Earth. It's fun.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Big Tim
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 11:22 AM

Sorry about the blip!

If the relevant Dooneen is in Cork, why does the great Kerry singer Peggy Sweeney, who has all sorts of local expert advisers to hand, include 'Cliffs of Dooneen' on her DVD 'Kerry a Kingdom in Song'?

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Big Tim
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 11:18 AM

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 08:07 PM

Plot thickens....

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 03:36 AM

We recorded it from a young Traveller woman and annotated it as follows.
The information comes from Nichols Carolan at the ITMA in Dublin, who claimed that the song was brought into Clare by singer Siney Crotty.
"Dooneen Point is on the Kerry Coast, between Ballylongford and Ballybunnion at the Mouth of the River Shannon, giving excellent views of the South West of Clare, though it should be said that it is not possible to see Kilrush and Kilkee from this point as stated in verse two. This has been explained by suggesting that the song was originally located in Moveen, a few miles south west of Kilkee in Clare.
The song was first recorded in Dublin in the 1960s sung by Siney Crotty who came from Kilbaha, which is on the Clare side of the Shannon.   Since it's first appearance it has gained enormous popularity.   The Irish Traditional Music Archive has around one hundred and ninety commercial recordings of it."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Artessss
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 07:30 PM

Thanks everyone, but nothing helps ME find the cliffs of Dooneen. Sounds a bit like an Irish tale...legend...I make movie cards and I'm using that song. I 'thought' I might add some to the movie by showing a 'real' picture and/or some kind of lore myself. It sounds a lot like all the beauty of Ireland. Thanks!

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Murphy
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:58 AM

There are several places throughout Ireland named Dooneen. (Little Fort). The only "Dooneen" that would have a view of Kilrush and Kilkee is Dooneen Point in north Kerry. I sang this song recently and was taken to task by a man who said he was from that locality (I sang two words incorrectly). When I told him that the cliffs don't really exist he insisted that they do and was highly offended. Because of his manner I did not ask him to elaborate as to size or height of the "cliffs"