BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 29 Jan 05 - 08:09 AM

Just to lighten it a little (!) it is significant that the wonderfully sociable people of Hull have managed to avoid this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 06:21 AM

National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 04:27 AM

I am a very lonely man because of alcohol and music. I miss my ex wife and children and am a lonely man, but I have realised to late and some other bastard has taken my place. I still have my alcohol and music but it is not enough!

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 07:05 PM

funny

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Peace
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 05:23 PM

Google

National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism

Good site that answers lotsa questions.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 04:42 PM

Theoretically it starts as a choice. At what point does the choice disappear though? Should we condem somebody for being of "weak character" and being unable to kick the habit or accept help? And what hope of curing such a person if the original cause still exists?

Both Keith and Kevin's slide can be traced to original "causes". Keith's was being passed over at work (he was a superb oil trader but had one bad year) - that blew his self-esteem to smithereens, and combined with his inability to have children just tore him apart: Nothing to leave behind, no fame no fortune, no family.

Kevin's was more commonplace: Wife left him, won custody of the kids, two sons and a daughter that he adored - almost pathologically - and moved abroad, so his access was severely limited. And then he became redundant at work.

Both "Keith" and "Kevin" are songs, by the way. I have not included them in any of my albums, and I never sing them in clubs, as they are too "dark" for my usual audiences. But I have a private recording of them; PM me with your address if you are interested in a copy.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: LilyFestre
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 03:51 PM

There's part of me that thinks it's all about choice even though I know it's an addiction. Having watched a step parent and later a paramour drink themselves into oblivion...well, it was their choice...no one made any effort to put that bottle in their hands. When given a choice to become a permanent memeber of the family (that he desparately wanted) or to take the bottle, he chose the bottle over us. Even after he saw his brother killed due to a drunk driving incident, he continued to drink. He eventually died of liver problems. What a waste...he was a wonderful human being and my mother and I loved him dearly. The idea of it just makes me angry.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 03:42 PM

Not to make light, but it seems to reinforce what was in Keith and Kevin (both pretty good IMO). It seems they really might be saying to themselves:
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me
Than have to have a frontal lobotomy
I may be drunk but at least I'm not insane"

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 01:38 PM

Leadfingers, I suspect that quote has been used many times. The version I recall is in the movie While You Were Sleeping, uttered by Glynnis Johns at a family gathering.

The self-medicating aspect of alcohol consumption has proved problematic for a couple of friends dealing with depression. One committed suicide, the other finally got a good working diagnosis to a physical problem that the doctors at first told her was all in her head. Thanks for sharing your friends' stories, El Greko.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST,Friend of Bill W
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 01:19 PM

A guy from AA walks up to a drunk sleeping in the gutter and says - "If you come with me to a meeting there's a good chance that you'll never have to take another drink. No more sleeping in the gutter and you'll never have to be lonely again"

The drunk looks up at him and says - "Can I think about it for a little while?"

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: sue exhull
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 11:13 AM

Thanks El.Grecko for sharing the poems, they are really good .

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: MaineDog
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 10:23 AM

In my church it's more important to avoid alcohol than it is to receive the Blood, so we use grape juice.
MD

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST,Elfcall
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 09:27 AM

Thank you El Greko particularly for 'Keith' I was a widower before I was 30 because of alcohol. Dignity (and pride) and thereore unwillingness to admit to others a problem is a lethal combination.

Elfcall

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST,JennyO
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 08:43 AM

Terry, why don't you come over to this place - Backdoor Tavern 99 ?

The Guinness is flowing, but I'd watch out for the beer if I were you - unless of course you LIKE turkey turd beer.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST,Leadfingers
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 07:59 AM

A lovely quote I stole so long ago I cant remember where I stole it !

"Of Course , I dont drink any more . The problem is that I dont drink any less!"

And by the way - Mines a pint !

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST,davetnova
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 06:03 AM

El Greko - both the prose and the poetry were wonderful.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 05:04 AM

Never been an alcoholic, though in my student days I would down 8 pints of an evening. Nowadays 2-3 would be my limit (1 and a half if I'm driving). At home, with a good friend, I might halve a bottle of whisky 2-3 times a year. So I drink, but have no problem going without for months.

But I have three close friends who were alcoholics. One went to AA and made it; 10 years on, he can even have some wine with a meal, and does not revert. The other two died - both their deaths linked to the drink.

What struck me with all three cases is how alcoholics try to hold on to their dignity (in their own minds, in the later stages); it's the last thing that goes, and they will lie to themselves for that purpose. And we, the do-gooders, have to be mindful of that as we try to help them. Because for many of us it's true that "there but for the grace of God go I".

"Keith"

Don't look at me with pity,
Don't turn away your eyes,
Not even for a minute
don't pretend to sympathise.
My problems and my worries
No worse are than your own.
It's only that you drink with friends,
and I just drink alone.
And if I had too many,
And if I spill my drink,
I know that I can handle it
much better than you think
No difference between us
Despite of all that's said,
Though in the gutter I may lie
while you sleep in your bed.

Don't use me as example,
And do not point at me.
You cannot hold a candle
to the man I used to be.
Position, pride and riches
Your person don't declare,
And nothing about me say
these old clothes I have to wear .
Don't think yourself no better
If I'm just skin and bone.
My future may be certain
but your future's still unknown.
My dignity and my bottle
Is now all that I own
The bottle you may take,
But leave my dignity alone.


I do not want assistance
I do not want your frown
I'll offer no resistance
if you push me to the ground
Just turn around and leave me,
Forget our paths that crossed.
There's nothing you can give me
that replaces what I lost.
And do not count your blessings
That you're not like I am.
For I have learned the lessons
but just failed in the exam.
And if you think I'm sorry
Perhaps you could be right
But dignity I will not give up yet
        without a fight.

You need to treat the root of whatever brought the alcoholic to that state - and the problem is, there are so many paths that lead to it, and each one is individual. I have often seen well-meaning councellors invalidate the good work of others in treating an alcoholic, simply by jumping in jackbooted and full of preconceptions and prejudices.

"Kevin"

I know I look a mess and I'm a disappointment
And people find my behaviour most uncouth
But nowadays I even shave without a mirror
For mirrors only show the skin and not the truth
How can a mirror show the shame of unemployment?
How can it show you the heartache or despair?
The loss of loved ones, the absence of enjoyment,
The mournfoul thoughts that hide behind the thinning hair?
So if you caught me with my hand around a bottle
Think nothing of it, and please don't make a scene
The voice inside me I'm only trying to throttle
That keeps reminding me of how things might have been

But you insist that I need help and you can help me
And that I need responsibilities to face
And you can bring me to the path that's straight and narrow
But its' that same path that brought me to this place.
You have degrees and think that you can understand me
I'll tell you this for nothing: You don't have a clue.
How could you help me fight the devil that's inside me
If you don't recognise the devil that's in you?
So if you caught me with my hand around a bottle
Think nothing of it, and please don't make a scene
The voice inside me I'm only trying to throttle
That keeps reminding me of how things might have been

No matter how hard you try to feel what ails me
The truth is you could never step inside my shoes
So give up trying, or even worse, pretending
And with a drink between us let's declare a truce
For every one of us has something they're regretting
Although some people such regrets would not admit
And some of us will use the bottle for forgetting
and some prefer upon the likes of us to spit.
So if you caught me with my hand around a bottle
Think nothing of it, and please don't make a scene
The voice inside me I'm only trying to throttle
That keeps reminding me of how things might have been

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: LadyJean
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 01:47 AM

I was given three precious gifts. I can get drunk on fruitcake. I get hellacious hangovers and I remember them. Most particularly I remember my first in a room full of electric typewriters.
I had a housemate who was an alcoholic, and very kindly told me about all the AA groups in my old neighborhood. It was kind of a shame I don't have a drinking problem. I know which ones are good, and which ones aren't.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 10:16 PM

I have been learning about different types of wine, and over the course of a month will buy a bottle of this and a bottle of that and try it with meals, after dinner, etc. I talk to the folks at the licquor store and ask for their recommedations, and listen to a little 5-minute "wine experience" thing on a local station in the evenings when I remember. It's really quite fascinating, and I've learned a lot. Like how to pace yourself--if you have a glass of wine, then drink a glass of water, and alternate that way to reduce the speed of absorption (I got this from a radio interview with a woman who reviews wines for a living).

Alcohol conveys flavor very well, and that's why wine tastes so good, alone or in cooking. The little buzz from it is pleasant, but very much beyond that little buzz and you can't get anything productive done. At least I can't. A couple of glasses of wine in an evening is about as much as I can consume and still keep doing the other things I want to. More than that and I fall asleep. :-/

I have found that there are some nice wines in the $7 - $10 range. Not vastly superior wines, perhaps, but very nice wines, nonetheless. But even at that rate, a couple of glasses an evening means a bottle every couple of days. If you drink wine every evening, then 15 times that $10 bottle of wine adds up, and would pay this month's power bill. So frugality keeps my consumption quite moderate, if nothing else does.

During a dinner for friends on New Year's Day a Belgian friend started talking about his preference for European wines, because when he reads the labels he buys those bottles with the statements that indicate that the wines have a pedigree of sorts, unlike American wines. A California wine could really be from anywhere, but a German wine, with the statement "Qualitätswein Mit Prädikat" or a French wine that says "Appellation (type of wine) Contrôlée" means the grapes are actually from the place they say they're from. "It's like a purebreed dog having papers," he said by way of example. "It can be traced, and the results are more predictable."

Beyond this, I find that as I try new wines and remark on them, my kids are interested, and also taste them. We're all learning more about wine, and for them, I hope, they're learning about consuming it responsibly. If it isn't forbidden fruit, then perhaps alcohol is something that is less of a hazard once they reach those volatile college years and beyond, when they're on their own. I don't think NOT drinking just because there are kids in the house sends a useful message, though it is one that has been suggested a time or two over the years. Just like learning to manage their money and keep their rooms clean, they need to know that this is okay but like the other things, needs to be dealt with responsibly. It's my hope that as a parent I can help them understand this--I don't need to cross my fingers and watch them wade through it alone.

And yes, before you ask, we also speak openly about sex, and don't dodge the issue when it comes up in movies or in jokes, etc. At this point I assume the kids know at least as much as I do, and I'm here to help them sort out what is reasonable from the rest.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Peace
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:25 PM

LOL

(Never knew 'e drank until I saw him sober once.)

You are one of the people I am looking forward to seeing on stage.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:21 PM

Yep. I've quit drinking, but my guitar keeps ordering for two.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Peace
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:18 PM

Is it easier than the harp? HA HA

Made a funny.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:11 PM

I'm not an alcoholic, but I play one on stage.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: goodbar
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:04 PM

i've never drank before, but i want to. hopefully next time i go to my friend's house he can get me smashed.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Raptor
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 08:04 PM

Brucie you're a good man.

Did anyone tell you that lately?

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 12:27 PM

I dealt with depression on and off for many years, and was never a drinker. Tell that to your boneheaded doctors. There are plenty enough seemingly valid reasons to get depressed in life, whether or not you add drinking to your list of problems.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 12:22 PM

I grew into my size at about the age of 12.
I learned rather quickly that anger and frustration combined with my size could get someone hurt. Knowing that my family has a proclivity (Ten dollar word with five cents tax)towards alcoholism I've always kept the drinking to a minimum. I'm certainly no Hulk, but if I got drunk and angry and started throwing punches...I'd rather not.

One or perhaps two over an evening is enough for me, and the wife and I take turns being the designated driver even if we haven't really imbibed enough to impede our abilities.

Funny thing, I'm being treated for depression. Every time I go to a different doctor they all ask the same question (in different ways) about ten times. "How much do you drink". As if I'd lie nine times and confess on the tenth?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Swave N. Deboner
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 12:07 PM

I don't like to drink at the bar, because the drunker I stand there, the longer I get, and then I fall over. So I sit down and drink. And I don't have a drinking problem. I see a drink, I drink it, no problem.

Seriously, I like to have a a few Coronas and lime when I'm standing at my barbecue grilling Mexican chicken or steak for fajitas. I'll have a couple Bass ales while I'm grilling up a London Broil, or a nice Cajun salmon fillet. I take a swig or two of marsala or chianti when I'm cooking an Italian recipe that calls for either. I always have at least one Tsing Tao with Chinese food, and maybe a glass of plumb wine (that goes exceptionally well with Chinese). I must be a theme drinker. When I'm at the open mic club one night a week, I can put away some Bass ale, and a couple shots of black sambuca, strictly for my throat, you see.

The thing is, I can go without a drink for a week, a month, or a year and never miss it. I don't have to have alcohol in order to function, and I don't drink to satisfy any physical craving. I just enjoy good beer, decent wine, good liquor, and good company. But I like the taste as much as the effect. I'll admit, I've been known to tie one on, and I always have a blast when I do. My wife calls me an alcofrollick. But I can take it or leave it.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 11:51 AM

Some people argue about things just for the satisfaction of hearing themselves talk, Mooh. (They'd rather be "right" than be constructive.)

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Biskit
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 11:46 AM

Davetnova,
you can too! you just have to want to,... more than you've ever wanted anything in your life.
Peace! through Understanding
~Biskit~

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Mooh
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 11:07 AM

Had a recent spirited conversation (for lack of a more accurate description) with someone who reminded me that I still receive communion so therefore I haven't quit drinking at all. Their logic was that I am indeed an alcoholic and that eventually I'll become an abusive tumbledown drunk. This person has issues of their own, imho.

If receiving the blood of Christ as wine means I haven't stopped "drinking" then I guess I haven't stopped drinking. I've never been tempted to swipe the wife's booze after church though, so maybe I'm not an alcoholic...whatever that is.

Sigh...Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST,Leadfingers
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:59 AM

That up there was me ! Forgot that a handle is need in here to avoid being anonymous 1

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:58 AM

I worked for three months and three days with the nastiest man I have ever met , and stayed sober the whole time - Nasty he might have been but it proved to me that no matter how much I enjoy a drink , it will NOT take over my life ! Now , if I am at a festival and the car is safely parked up , I can relax with as much booze as I like until its time to drive home ! I've worked (musically) with alcoholics and can only sympathise with anybody with the affliction .

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:27 AM

My mother used to have one (1) 8 ounce glass of beer every day at 4 p.m. It was the time when the kids were out playing, the day's work was mostly done, and it wasn't yet time to start supper. It was also about all of the alcohol she drank -- oh, yeah, perhaps an ounce or two of wine on Christmas and, very rarely, a highball at a wedding reception. She was also known to take a hot toddy when she had a bad cold, or even make one -- a weak one! -- for one of her kids if they had a cold.

Anyway, some years ago my sister decided that the daily 8 ounces of beer made my mother an alcoholic. This permitted my sister (who has many problems of her own) to claim that she was the "survivor" of an alcoholic mother. My brothers and I, who have known (and one who has almost been) true alcoholics, were appalled.

To me it was like the diagnosis that my father-in-law was homicidal: he'd been a career Army officer and served in WW2, so he knew about weapons, and thus was homicidal (and no, I'm NOT making this up!). After the feathers fell silently to the floor, the person making that diagnosis had been reprimanded by the State's professional association and the family considers it funny.

Eight ounces of beer a day does not an alcoholic make, nor does serving in the Armed Forces make you homicidal.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 08:52 AM

I've been in the RAC for years its getting very dear, they have never mentioned drink

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST,Brucie
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 08:52 AM

Any of you guys need someone to talk with, someone to listen, message me. That's a serious offer, but all I can do is MAKE the offer. You gotta send the message.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST,another sober mudcatter
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 08:03 AM

another friend of Bill W, coming up to 14 years of relatively sane life, free of worrying about what alcohol would do to me, or what I would do in a blackout. My current life is unbelievably better than it ever was, it isn't perfect, but neither am I, & I wouldn't swap it for anything.

I visit folk clubs in pubs & cafes & other venues & I watch people making music with wine, beer, tea, coffee & nothing to drink. Some have 1 (alcoholic) drink, some have a few, some have too many to my eyes, but they're all there for the music & alcohol is not the total experience. Even the people I see as drinking alcoholically are there for the music. Maybe I move in a different crowd.

There's nothing wrong with having a drink or 2 or 3 or even getting drunk on occasion, but there is if alcohol takes over & gets in the way of living life.

AA is not the only way to stay sane & sober. My sister is around 23 years sober & has never been a member of AA, but she had 2 good therapists in her early days of sobriety & supportive friends over the years.

anon

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 04:49 AM

Stop? When you've been brought up into a drinking culture all of your life and it's the sum total of your social and musical world why would you want to stop? Do you have to wait until your Doctor gives you that stark warning? Is it a lack of intelligence? Is George Best thick?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Davetnova
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 03:22 AM

I've got a problem but I still can't stop.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Peace
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 01:00 AM

I was a binge drinker, buddy. Started just on weekends. Then the weekends began to start on Thursday. Then Wednesday. Figured that was pretty good. But then they started lasting longer, too. Went into Monday and then Tuesday. Then 5:00 PM became 4:00 PM and you can guess the rest of that chord progression. I do not mean to offend you, pfr. Not preaching to you, either.It is a hard habit to kick. Never really do actually. Twenty years after stopping, I can sometimes taste how good a light rum--four ounce shot--would taste. Damn. Makes my mouth water right now. I was just a common drunk. My drinking affected my life, none of it for the good. I will offer you my hand, my shoulder, my time, my heart, my empathy; no sympathy though. I go through the nightmare of my thoughts every damned day of my life. Some people can have a few and they're fine. I couldn't do that--ever. Weak? Maybe in some eyes. Strong? Well, I'll put it this way: strong enough to have quit, but it's a daily thing, because I have to quit everyday, right before I start. You ever want to talk, I'll be glad to liste. Promise, no advice. You have my word. Hard enough to leave it alone without some AH telling you how great you're doing. I've been doing great for twenty years, but let me get on the outside of one and I'll be the common ordinary drunken AH I was. That, my friend, scares me more than death itself.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 12:39 AM

i've loved drinking and enjoyed getting drunk since i was 15.
its the culture i was brought up in.
same as most of my mates.
But i'm middle aged now and very aware that
my constitution is less able to deal with the morning after results
of a 'good night out',
and i dont want to suffer the inevitable health problems
of midlife high blood pressure and diabetes, etc.

so now its limited to 2 or 3 binge nights per month
and absolutely no alchohol on weekdays.
Which is a bit of a problem as folkie type pub music nights
are always on my dry days,
but i'm more likely to be in the fitness centre anyway.

Truthfully, i would like to give up drinking entirely..
[its too expensive, and i'd rather spend the money on music equipment]
but doubt if i ever will.
Occasionally i'll stop for a week, then another, then another
and so on.. just for the sense of achievement..
if i can stop for a month, then sheer bloody minded determination kicks in..
and then i'll refuse to drink for as long as possible;
even if it means staying at home and pissing of the wife who enjoys regular socialising.
I managed to pack it in for 3 months last year,
until the wifes birthday.

Biggest problem is i really enjoy the taste and sensation
of strong lager and farm house ciders..
and being drunk is still fun in the right place with the right people.
Trouble is, the kind of town where i live,
its almost inevitable that sooner or later me being drunk in the wrong
place at the wrong time ,
i'll have to deal with the consequences of being at the receiving end
of unprovoked random violence.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Biskit
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 12:28 AM

another friend of Bill W. a "Recovered" alcoholic/addict 11 years clean and sober. for those who disagree with the recoverd part,..read how it works,...again. ;)
Peace! Through Understanding
~Biskit~

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 12:09 AM

I thought I may have a problem with it then I stopped for two days, no problem, but reading this has made me wonder again, oh feck I need a drink.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Mooh
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 08:50 PM

I love beer but it was giving me a hangover after only a couple, and I was blaming my tummy upsets on it. Eventually the Dr. figured that a mild lactose intolerance was the tummy trouble, and we've fixed that up, but since I was off the beer I stayed off and it's been four years now. I don't miss what beer did to me, but I miss the taste sometimes. My bride continues to enjoy a drink though, as do most of my friends.

Somehow I seem to have more money in my pocket too...


Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 08:08 PM

I used to take a fair bucket...In my youth I was self conscious and shy.   I used drink as a way of over-coming my inhibitions.

As I grew older Began to develope a phylosophy and to understand how very very unimportant we are as individuals in the great scheme.

Although Im not an alcoholic, I find nowadays I rarely drink alcohol,simply because I feel the effect blunts the sensation of being alive.

And if your going to post on Mudcat, you need your wits about you ...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Raedwulf
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 05:22 PM

John - Permit me to disagree. Dutch courage isn't a myth. The problem is that it normally impairs judgement much more rapidly than it reduces nervousness. You need a rare ability to be able to handle either the moment or its later consequences. Drawing the good from the bad is even harder - can you make it work in your favour, without cringing at what you did? It's possible, but I would hesitate to recommend it as a deliberate strategy to anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 05:14 PM

My family drank beer and wine, my paternal grandfather even made his own whisky (we have the still still). On a few occassions I've drank until I passed out and suffered the next day(s).

But I'm grown away from it. If I have a drink it's usually in the privacy of my home. This past weekend we went to friends where I had two glasses of excellent wine.

These days I drink for the pleasure of the taste, I drink truly good stuff, which usually costs a bunch. Since I don't have lots of money to indulge my tastes, I don't drink much. (I suspect that even if I had an unlimited beverage budget I still wouldn't drink much -- I don't like losing control that way.)

If Brucie came around I certainly would have something for him to drink and I most likely would join him.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 05:09 PM

I've never been an alcoholic, but I can remember times when I succumbed to the dire perils of sexaholism...

And Mudcataholism too.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 05:05 PM

Anyone with an aversion to support groups just hasn't hit bottom yet. If the thought of getting help scares you, just keep on drinking. When the fear of the consequences of continuing to drink becomes greater than the fear of getting help, you'll be ready.

Bruce - Another Friend of Bill W. (15 years)

Subject: RE: BS: I'm NOT an alcoholic!
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 04:48 PM

"Dutch Courage" is a concept thought up by drunks.
While it may have been of some advantage to the likes of Vikings going into battle with clubs & axes & suchlike, it does no good in alleviating a state of nervousness, particularly where any kind of skill is required. It will only accentuate the nervousness.

Megan L's mum said a mouthful.

There are many fallacies regarding booze.
It will not cool you on a hot day, it actually makes you hotter.
Alcohol is a depressant. While you may get momentarily cheery with the loss of inhibition it affords, it will not raise your spirits, but dampen them.

Brucie also said a mouthful "If ya think ya got a problem, maybe ya do".

My credentials? Thirty years of hands-on research which ended when my first child was born.

John