What's up with Mudcat this time!!???

Subject: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 06:30 AM

Just when I thought it was all better and we could get on it, it's started being down in teh day again! Could someone please tell us what's happening and if Mudcat is ever going to get back to normal again?????

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,~S~
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 06:57 AM

Try:

http://207.103.108.99/threads.cfm?

~S~

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,sandra in sydney
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 07:16 AM

copied from recent posts on help.mudcat.org -

the first is from Chris Maltby, the translation from Jon. And I don't understand any of it, tho Jon's plain English translation at least means something. I just don't know why it is so.

sandra
............................

Both Sandra-in-Sydney and I reckon Mudcat is down. I can traceroute to the server but no-one is talking on port 80.
...................

Sandra, 80 is the standard HTTP (what you use for web browsing) port. You could translate what he said as "the computer itself is running but the web server on it isn't".
.....................................

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,JennyO
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 07:24 AM

Hmm. Answers Ping, but starts to load and just sits there. Oh well, at least we can get in here.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 07:34 AM

I don't know WHY either Sandra but the webserver is just another piece of software running on a computer and as with any other application, can crash.

What a webserver does is sits there listening (usualy on port 80) for someone like you with say IE to ask it to give you a page, which hopefully it supplies. HTTP (hypertext transfer protocol) is the "language" both parties understand.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 07:40 AM

BTW, I could be wrong but I think Ping is a request to an "echo server" - port 7???

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 08:07 AM

Yes ~S~, I know..that's how I managed to get in here...but I can't use the chat and I can't send or receive PMs. And I really would like to be kept INFORMED of what's going on and what the prospects are, wouldn't you? Is this going to be happening every day for weeks again? Does anyone know when it's going to be fixed? It would be far less irritating if someone would just post progress reports every so often or something.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,sandra
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 08:09 AM

Jon, I've had enough of applications misbehaving. Chris just finished setting up my iMac on Sunday & now the mail is playing silly buggers. He will be back to do more techo stuff asap, tho as he has a life it won't be as soon as I want!!

aren't computer's wonderful when they work properly

sandra

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,sandra again
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 08:14 AM

it's so frustrating when Mudcat is down, or as has been the case, when my computer was also not doing the right thing. I've watched all the members post & the only way I could get in was vis the IP as a guest.

Lynne, if the people you want to contaact are also members of the Annex, you can PM them there.

as it is early morning Mudcat-time Max probably doesn't know it's playing up again.

sandra

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,yet again
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 08:21 AM

Lynne, I can't see you as a member of the Annex, so if you want to join here is the address

The Annex

Jon created the Annex for Mudcatters to discuss non-music matters

sandra

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 08:31 AM

Yep Sandra, but at times even the simplest and stupidest things can drive you nuts.

I had one with Pip this morning. I'd persuaded her into Firefox and Thunderbird and away from OE/IE and installed the software for her. I got a yell that she couldn't post to the Annexe. Took me about 1hr to spot something which in all honestey should have been obvious to me...

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 08:34 AM

Well I should be on Annexe...I joined last time Mudcat was down every day. Thanks though. However, a lot of people aren't on Annexe, so PMing is still a problem. What I REALLY miss is my middle-of-the-day chat.

And Max ought to know it's playing up..it's happening at the same time every day AGAIN.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Giok P'd Off too
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 08:58 AM

Well I tried to log on to the Annexe several times, and it wouldn't let me register. I e-mailed jonbanjo no reply!

Giok

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:06 AM

It hasn't come to me Giok but assuming you posted to [e-mail], maybe Pip or Mary have it. If you want, try me at [e-mail] and I can probably sort it out.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Three Laps Ship Sheding Structure
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:16 AM

And I thought it was just me who couldnt get properly logged on

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,flamenco ted
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:24 AM

hello three sheds, I can't get in either.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:27 AM

I've had a reply from Giok which I'm trying to deal with but TLSSS, what is the problem you are getting. I could do with something like an error message reported or a sequence of events to stand a chance of working out what if anything is wrong.

Like what for example happens if you go to register, submit your details, does it accept them? Or maybe you are trying to login with Mudcat details that have yet to be registered by you at the Annexe?

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:43 AM

OK, I think most of this is looking like a missunderstanding of the system. I have changed wording on this page in the hope that will help avoid one problem.

Any further problems, please do let me know.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:57 AM

Thanks for the info about Annexe. For what its worth, I just registered on there and it worked.

No disrespect intended, but I'd rather be posting here and be able to PM etc.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:58 AM

Sorry that last post was from me.

Azizi

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: MBSLynne
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 10:48 AM

Hooray! It's back! After roughly 6 1/2 hours..much the same as yesterday. Is this going to happen again tomorrow I wonder? Too late for me to go and sit in the chat room and wait for company now......

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 11:07 AM

Well it failed me again Jon, registering that is, fill in all the fields, and I get a http500 error message.
Giok

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 11:34 AM

OK, John, I've got a few of my own access problems here (my test IIS I use to check code before putting it onto the live site is refusing to play) today but it looks like there is a bug with apostrophies in the Username.

Try John (Giok) Mackenzie for now. I think you will find it will work. It can be changed later.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: nutty
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 11:44 AM

I had no problem getting in this morning (approx8.45am) although it was a little slow loading.

Remember New York and the East Coast, where I believe Max lives, are experiencing the worst weather conditions for years.

Although this may be frustrating for you as individuals a little patience and understanding would not come amiss.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 11:52 AM

...patience and understanding. Yes. Also, why say !!??? when ? will do?

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 12:31 PM

Sorted thanks Jon I am now bracketted.
Giok

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Bassic
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 01:11 PM

I think the frustration comes from lack of information.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Bassic
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 01:19 PM

This was on the help forum from John

Subject: RE: Down?
From: John In Kansas
Date: 25-Jan-05 - 08:52 AM

I'm getting the same symptom as before. The main thread site starts to open, no error message, just sits and waits. Apparently the "search engine" associated with the crud Max asked us to clean up just sends so many "search results" that it monopolizes the server. The server appears to be running, but it's just too busy to finish the page download with my slow connection.

The guess is that someone who has the "search bar" on their machine has visited again, and it's doing its search all over again - probably with multiple bots all running, since this thing apparently puts a new bot on every page you visit, if you're a carrier. (breeder might be a better term here.) Typhoid Mary(s) on the web.

John

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: MBSLynne
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 02:05 PM

leeneia, the reason for the !!??? is that ? wouldn't do. I was annoyed and frustrated that we are still not being given any infomation despite the fact that this problem has been going on since Christmas. If you want patience and understanding, making comments that are only likely to annoy and enrage is not the way to go about getting it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In fact, now I come to think of it...get stuffed!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 02:28 PM

Just a little point... when you put Mudcat into a search engine and click on the link to Mudcat.org provided, it seems to be trying to log on via Loki. I thought Loki was no longer available...

Could it be someone is getting frustrated at always getting sent up a dead end?

LTS

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 02:29 PM

Sounds like necrophilia that Liz

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 02:58 PM

Liz, I get Mudcat through my 'favorites' list, but tried search on google and Mudcat was at top of the list. Quick access.

When was all this trouble? Looked at 8:30 PM MST last night and everthing was fine, and fine again when I looked this morning at 10:30 AM MST.
(Of course if you don't keep proper Amurican hours...)

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Teresa
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 03:03 PM

I think discussion of Mudcat problems might get more replies if you go to the help forum and post. http://help.mudcat.org From there you can also send pm or email to Max or Joe or Jeff.

Teresa

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 03:16 PM

Well said Teresa,someone has a brain and its not me,lol.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: nutty
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 03:57 PM

I really fail to see what such outbursts of frustration achieve except to try and make the situation appear greater than it actually is.

A posting at 6.30am hardly means that the Mudcat had been down all day in fact when checking back through the postings it seems that it had only been off line for about half an hour at that time ......

In fact, it was only down for about 3 hours which given the weather conditions could have been something entirely out of Max's control.
And also, given the weather conditions, I am sure he has had more to worry about than just Mudcat.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: MBSLynne
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 05:26 PM

No Nutty..it was actually down, as far as the front door goes, for 6 1/2 hours.And I can't see that recent weather conditions can have anythign to do with it, given that this same problem (ie being down between about 9 and 3 UK time every day) has been going on since New Year.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: nutty
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 05:51 PM

Sorry to contradict Lynne but if you check, as I did, through the times of the postings for the last 3 days you will see that there has not been a 6 hour gap.
Which means that although you may not have been able to access Mudcat other people have.

I run 3 browsers and often get access through one when I can't with another .....

The fact that I can't get access with Netscape or IE has nothing to do with Mudcat but with the vageries of my system.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Snuffy
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 06:34 PM

I think Lynne is saying that www.mudcat.org has indeed often been down for 6 hours at a time, although people (myself included) have been able to get in via other routes like 207.103.108.99.

Coming in by this route you are forced to be a guest and cannot access PMs , chat etc.

It has been going on too long for it to be the weather: Max's own explanation for the problems is at the top of the threads page and here.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: hesperis
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 07:13 PM

Well, the Santy worm is being annoying lately as well and has caused bottlenecked traffic all over the internet. As ISPs install filters for it this slowdown should clear up.

So, make sure your computer is clean of spyware and adware... and always remember that the internet isn't a rock-solid thing so it might not be a server problem.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 08:07 PM

Shouldn't this thread be- What's down with Mudcat...?

Hush! hush! hush! hush!
We're all tumbled down.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Rosie
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:28 PM

It should say?
Hush!hush!hush!hush!
we're all tumbled down Lynnes front!!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Bassic
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 05:44 AM

Well it looks like the Mudcat.org front door approach is down yet again.....Last post by someone able to post with a Cookie looks to have been about 5.15 am Mudcat time, 10.15 am Uk time. Things had started to get slower for the previous half hour. If John in K is correct, I wonder if it could be someone in the UK, arriving at work about 9ish, and logging into MC and inadvertantly letting loose the "Bot" attack each time? If it is a "Work" PC then unless they have authorisation to run software like Spybot, it may be that they are infected and not aware, and not allowed to run Spybot to check either. Speculation I know but in the absence of any other info there is not much else to do.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Wrinkles
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 06:02 AM

Well it's Wednesday 10.44am in frosty Berkshire and I've had to use the backdoor yet again

Thanks Bassic, I was baffled when I read the Funweb explaination because it seemed to say the problem was in our own computers, not mudcat, yet the browser I use is safe from most adware/spyware (that is I can pick them up but there's nothing for them to get a handle on and get out again or effect operations) and my regular housekeeping rids my comp of them every couple of days. You're saying however that someone with Funweb "infects" the Cat which buggers it for everyone?

I do hope a cure is found soon; PM and Chat as well as threading had become part of my morning routine and I miss the bits of the Cat I can not get to via the back door.

Barbara

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,JennyO
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 06:03 AM

Just like last time - you can almost set your watch by it. So if it runs true to form, it will be up again in about 6 hours. Ho hum.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Giok P'd Off too
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 06:34 AM

Yep I got in earlier OK, and now it's time for a 99 again. No raspberry sauce on mine thanks!
Giok

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 08:28 AM

So, all that said, what's up?

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,JennyO
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 08:39 AM

Come on over folks, Backdoor Tavern 99 is open and the Guinness is on the house!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 09:12 AM

Well, I tried but I got an error message for the Backdoor Tavern..so I guess patience is a virtue...

so I'll check back to this discussion forum later. I guess I'm supposed to do work instead..

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 10:15 AM

I couldn't get in the back door either.. The 'Cat was lethargic at 10.55am (GMT UK), stopped at about 11.00am and is back now at 3.00pm.

I would be inclined to agree with Bassic and Lynne, the regular time slot is a bit suspicious and could warrant investigation.

LTS

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: JennyO
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 10:24 AM

Yes, I agree. However it wasn't down for so long this time. The last post from a member was at 5.14am mudcat time, and the first post from a member after it came back was at 9.27am mudcat time. So it was only down for a bit over 4 hours, instead of its usual 7 or so. All of which means.......I have no idea!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: nutty
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 10:44 AM

Given that the entire internet (not just Mudcat) is affected by this adware problem ..... it could just be that the web slows as traffic increases.

Between 6 and 7am being the time when the US is starting to come online.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 10:49 AM

There is the other possibility that it is being done intentionally, and whoever it is was on holiday for the last week or so.
Giok

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: nutty
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 11:02 AM

I'm not sure I follow you Giok

Do you mean that the who web episode is intentional or that Mudcat is being targetted specifically??

And if Mudcat ...... by a member or guest???
I'd be interested to view the evidence on which you have based such a supposition.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: JennyO
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 11:13 AM

I can't imagine internet traffic increasing dramatically at 5 in the morning. It's a bit too early for that. Also, I seem to remember that last time this happened, it started about an hour earlier, at almost the same time day after day (or night after night here in Oz). There's some sort of pattern in it, I think, and probably a good reason, but I don't think we've heard it yet.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Bassic
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 11:23 AM

I see no evidence of other sites that I access slowing down or becoming unavailable at the same time as we seem to be having the regular occurance here on MC......so that would suggest that it it an MC specific problem rather than the web as a whole slowing down to a crawl. The "evidence" that I presume Giok bases his speculation on, is the regularity of the time........the lack of pre notice or warning of a "planned" outage as I would expect from a maintenance activity, (Max did warn us a couple of weeks ago of such an event), and the fact that we have all been warned of the Funweb problem and how to fix it.The logocal hypothesis is that, if it is due to a funweb problem, then either it is comming from a regular user who has NOT disinfected their machine for some reason, or as Giok suggests, it is being done deliberately for some reason. If it was a random infection caused by an occasional visitor looking for song lyrics, then the regularity of the time that this happens would seem to argue against that. People do do malicious things on the WWW....thats what viruses are all about. That doesnt mean to say there may not be other reasons for it, but speculation is a fairly harmless activity in this case I would think?

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 11:40 AM

Okay, folks, let's put an end once and for all to this perpetual speculating about Mudcat downtime. Here's the plain and simple, factual truth of the matter:

Max is a very smart and caring fellow. He realizes that if the Mudcat were up all the time, many of us would stay on it 16 hours a day except for occasional bathroom, food and sex breaks. In his wisdom, Max has planned these outages so as to give us a little time to practice our instruments, learn new material and write songs. The fact that the outages seem to be totally at random is yet another testimony to Max's wisdom. Since Mudcat membership stretches around the globe through all time zones, the seemingly random nature of the outages merely serves to give all members equal amounts of practice time.

Those are the facts. And, if they aren't, at least they're a pretty good lie.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: mooman
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 12:04 PM

I noticed I was the last member to post before things went odd again. However, I've just done a full system scan (I run the latest updated version Ad-Aware SE every day by the way) and can't find anything untoward. Certainly no new search bars or particularly odd adware apart from the usual rubbish one collects in a normal working day (which is not inconsiderable and requires no effort on one's part!).

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 12:08 PM

Nutty I was just postulating the theory that it could be being done intentionally with malice aforethought, no evidence, just an idle paranoid thought;~)
Giok

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 12:13 PM

Nutty, I'm reluctant to post here but, I can offer these facts.

1. The article Max provided was written in 2003 (12/10/03) which ever way you care to read it. Funweb products have been around and used by many for a long while.

2. The server logs at the Annexe do show that some members of Mudcat still have it on thier system. What I can't find is any evidence of it spidering or otherwise hammering our site with page requests or any other reason such as unexpected downtime to justify me attempting to put a block on it.

3. I check into my ISP's forum daily. There is no mention of a new and current threat from funweb products there.

It could be that Mudcat is being hit by a new and more damaging version of the software, that the news is slow reaching me, and in a few days time I do find I have problems but if I was a gambler I'd put my money on the problem being something else.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Giok P'd Off too
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 05:29 AM

Well it just died again at approx 10:20 am UK time, as I was in the middle of posting.
Giok :~(

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,JennyO
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 07:51 AM

Yep, same time AGAIN. See you in the Backdoor Tavern.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 08:35 AM

Phhhhhzzzztttt!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Josher Via the back door
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 11:20 AM

This is getting silly

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 11:35 AM

back again peek a boo!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: MudGuard
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 06:12 AM

Something is different today - Mudcat is still up ;-)

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Bassic
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 06:23 AM

Shhhhhh!! Dont say anything else it might go away again ;-)

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Giok
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 06:16 AM

We seem to be using the back door again, that's two days running for me. Is the bug back again?
Giok [Open that tavern]

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 06:31 AM

I'm still trying to look into this but the idea that funweb products is the cause becomes increasingly unlikely.

Can anyone point me to a recent (the other link is to old) link to an article that would support the argument that funweb products are driving web masters crazy? I can find plenty from a users point of view and I wholeheartedly agree that one should get rid of it but I have been unable to find an article from the hosts side - except that it carries the minor irritation of lengthening the browser details with the addtion of "funweb products" - a slight addition of length to the server logs. That's how I see it on my own logs and I don't get the supporting "assult" evidence.

I also become more and more baffled as to why this program should be singling out just one MC server.

I'm addtionally baffled as the first report of the problems here started with "website under construction". This could be consistant with Allan C's report of a new installation but I find it incredibly hard to believe something like funweb could have deleted index.html or other default page.

Jon

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Leadfingers
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 06:42 AM

I logged into the Cat in the normal way at o920 gmt - Quick look - No One in Chat so had a browse through the forum . At about ten fifteen
It became impossible to get any threads up , although the 'back' button put me back to the forum . I logged out , and couldnt get back in except through '99' (The Back Door) . This would seem to tie in with the suggestion that someone is coming in mid morning and blowing the whole thing up !

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,eric the frustrated
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 06:49 AM

I experience this every day, OK early to mid morning then it goes down.

eric

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 06:50 AM

I had a very similar experience to Leadfingers' - it pooped out on me in the middle of trying to post to the Carolyn Hester thread, which I eventually did through the back door (which will pinpoint the time).

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 06:54 AM

Interesting, Leadfingers. That would blow my thoughts of a different installation away if it is timed.

I still do not believe it is funweb (however undesirable it is) doing the damage though.

If anyone can point me to the evidence I've asked for, I would be greatful as if I'm wrong, I could too find I suffer.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,JennyO
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 07:24 AM

I agree with you Jon - I have serious doubts about it being anything to do with funwebproducts, and like I have been saying all along, there is definitely a pattern to it, timewise. I don't think it's somebody logging on. I think it's more likely something internal that is timed. I don't know enough about computers to make a guess as to what it could be though.

Also, as I have said before, I don't think we have yet heard the real reason for what is happening - if in fact, anyone knows what the real reason is.

Meanwhile, I guess we should open up Backdoor Tavern 99 again.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 07:37 AM

Apologies Jenny, not that I can do anything about a MC problem, perhaps I should have "listened" to you more carefully than I did when you gave your observations a few weeks ago. At that point, I thought the timing was the "tired server" - one that may last out a few hours but would not last out over night and the start up time does seem to tie in line with Max getting up to re-boot. The comments here do suggest that it may be more than that but I haven't a clue what.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 08:59 AM

Jon –

The link that Max posted re the FunWebProducts was a NetworkWorldFusion commentary by Mark Gibbs, marked as a Network World Applications Newsletter, 12/10/03. ( http://www.nwfusion.com/newsletters/web/2003/1208web2.html ). I'm sure you've seen that one already.

I agree that it seemed like rather old news, but it may just be the best short explanation that was available for Max to post. In the absence of further explanation from Max, it must be assumed that he found something on the 'cat servers to implicate FunWeb; but he's the only one who knows.

There are numerous "product makers" who's reputations are no better than FunWeb's. The typical difficulty with many of them arisises from their practice of allowing virtually anyone to "bundle" or "embed" their bot/search/hijack components into arbitrary other "free stuff." The makers make no attempt to control who uses their "engines" so it's impossible to tell who's actually responsible. Of course the core engine that gets used is identifiable, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they directly intended the use that appears. One other similar maker is 180Solutions, cited as the culprit in the recent COAST Collapse ( eWeek at http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1761466,00.asp )

The "symptom" I get is that mudcat is up and running. I get a "web site contacted, waiting for reply." Usually the "progess bar" indicates intermittent clusters being sent, but I'm on a LAN connection so I don't get a meaningful byte count. Progress stalls, and the connection just sits there.

My amateur reading of this is that a request for connection has priority and is answered. The page requested starts sending, but can be interrupted if a higher priority request appears, i.e. a new request for connection. When the transmission to me is interrupted, my request goes to a que until it's next in line for response. If there's too much traffic, the que fills and my request probably gets pushed off the bottom – or the traffic just prevents my request from ever getting back to the top of the que.

A possible mudcat-specific explanation might be that Max doesn't have a large enough que to handle peak traffic, and/or doesn't have "que full" detection and/or overflow handling set up optimally. I've seen some vague comments about the possibility of managing the que so that a "senior request" gets moved up in priority, but that kind of management appears to require a few extra bells and whistles.

The regular appearance of the problem seems to be just about the time London goes to work, or perhaps at morning tea break, so it's possible that it's a simple "too many Brits" thing. While that's a politically popular opinion, the posted traffic doesn't really show that much of a bump.

If the 'cat is being hit with an indexing/search utility, I can speculate that something of this sort might have special effects on the 'cat. Sending results home probably must be "scheduled" for any non-trivial site, since otherwise the receiving site would have to have a continously open connection to every site it's searching. The roughly 04:00 – 05:00 US Eastern time would be a reasonable time for typical US sites if the bot is looking for a time when US traffic is low. (That's 01:00 – 02:00 Western US time)

The regular appearance might also be because one user, who comes in at a regular time, is dropping the same specific and unusually disruptive bot at the same time every, or nearly every, day.

Most search engines rely on following links to find what's on a site. Every page at the 'cat has, typically, a dozen of more links at the top for related info, a list of posts with a link to each post, each post has a link to the person posting – which also executes search. Each request to open a link is a "new request to connect" which has priority at the top of the que. So how much traffic happens if "someone or something" goes to the 'cat at 04:00 every day and says "open all the links?" The search behavior of a crudely programmed bot might not even be visible at many sites, but at the 'cat I can see a very stuffed buffer.

Plausible(?), but of course no proof. (Of course, I may not understand how this stuff works, and I'll go with the experts when they're ready to talk.)

John

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 09:20 AM

"In the absence of further explanation from Max, it must be assumed that he found something on the 'cat servers to implicate FunWeb; but he's the only one who knows."

Agreed John.

The problems I have there though are that I have mudcat members vist the Annexe, and even though I'm on a shared hosting server I do get to view my own raw logs and there is evidence to support mudcat members having funweb. What I don't see is anything that would support the notion that it is hammering either me or my host.

That, coupled with the fact that I can't find any current article suggesting web masters are being driven crazy all over the world by funweb is sufficient for me to think Max has read this one wrongly.

I could be wrong of course...

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 11:35 AM

Jon -

Relative to those who log on to the regular 'cat site, the catters who go to your site when the 'cat is too busy to connect are probably a very small subpopulation. It could just be that the one (or more) who have, or have had, the bug just aren't in that group.

And, as I suggested, even if Max has found the "FunWeb" search engine, it could have been attached or embedded in almost anything, if I read how these things work and are being used. From what I've seen/heard, there's virtually no "pure FunWeb" stuff very active, as mostly it's bundled into downloaders, pornsite logins, etc., by individual "site mismanagers" and it's freely available to anyone who wants to mangle it. There's also the difficulty that FunWeb has quite a few different programs available for people to misuse, so you may just be seeing "the good ones," or just not seeing the isolated mismangled one(s).

I would expect that a typical search bot would try to collect a few bits of stuff and send it's findings home immediately. I would also expect that it might incorporate a "try again later" if it ran into too much info or didn't get a connection "at home," since otherwise it could stall and/or swamp the receiving site. Given the 'cat heavy use of links, everything is linked to everything else, tied up into loops and knots of links, so a search bot that blindly follows links is going to end up trying to send the entire 'cat server back multiple times. It may have a "time out and try again" that just turns it on and makes it "run til failure and reschedule" - or some such mechanism, that makes it come back every morning to try again?

Most sites have a few, or even quite a few, links that go somewhere, and maybe go to a page with a few additional links, but on most sites the links end somewhere - or lead off the site. On the 'cat no chain of links ever ends. I know that there are mechanisms to limit the depth of search by bots, but if the searchers are as dumb as implied by what I've seen about the FunWeb machines, I'd not be surprised if the 'cat server is full of the little vermin, happily spawning new bots and looking for the end of the links - and there ain't any ends.

Or it may just be too many Brits having tea.(?)

Of course, again, I'm just imagining what might be, so it's of no real help to the stranded 'catters or to Max.

John

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 12:18 PM

John,

There is no probability about the sub population. I only get a fraction - 500th or maybe less that that of regualrish posters here,

What I would expect to find if I was getting hit by a MC member wuth funweb products on if it is doing the sort of hits I'd imagine would be needed to break a site would be evidence like that one "visitor" had been to everywhere and to every thread in a short time. Such evidence does not exist and being, as you rightly say, quiet, it does make it very easy for me to search through my logs.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 12:32 PM

Of course my bigger problem is not one of reading the logs but not managing to google and find an article leading one way or other, Such supporting evidence really would be handy.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 12:40 PM

Jon -

If the search bot spawns a new bot to follow a branching thread, only one "visitor" would be required, and only one "parent" bot need be deposited. There might well be an "incubation period" but with the 'cat structure of crosslinked and never ending strings of links, any replication of bots would soon - or eventually - lead to massive crowds of the vermin.(?)

My understanding is that the "reputable" search indexing people usually place a bot at a known place, with instructions to search "n deep" and then go home. When the bot dies, they launch a new one with similar limited range if there are unexplored links they want to check out. An indexing system that tries to use "free-roaming" bots, especially if they rely on surreptitious "planting" as FunWeb apparently does (and several others do), would likely be able to "benefit" if the bots could replicate. Even with very slow replication, this could easily saturate the resources of a site like the cat. They don't know where their bots are, so they'd need to make them persistent.

Still just guessing.

John

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 01:05 PM

John, even then, I would expect an explosion in the size of my logs at sommme time, even if I wasn't able to detect it.

Regardless of that sort of thing, the lack of a google result indicating others have the same problem remains my biggest concern,

The other is that only one of two Mudcat servers gets it, I know of no other site that does, etc. and as for resources available, surely on £50 pa, I'm smaller than MC and have less to play with by far?

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 01:09 PM

There are times I can't get mudcat but I agree there are other sites that have become slow or simply inaccessible recently. Hotmail.com is virtually unusable on both my computers running IE5.5 or IE6. Pages get half way loaded then just hang and will not refresh. They work OK using Firefox - but very occasionally I get the same problem using this browser too. Why I ask myself. Most other sites are fine. Hotmail.co.uk (a new site) is much faster, I guess because it is a different and less heavily used server. Ebay is quicker with Firefox. Don't understand it.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 01:29 PM

Jon -

I don't generally go into the "webmeister" sites, so I don't know much about what they talk about, except what arrives in the couple of newletters I get. The "user help" sites do have quite a lot of chatter from people who have difficulty getting rid of Fun Ware stuff. The difficulty is that the "FunWare" kits can be bundled into any kind of crudware someone wants to attach it to, so you can't really tell much about what additional felons are actually responsible for spreading a specific version, or whether the removal difficulties are Fun Ware design or something someone's tacked on.

Since COAST collapsed, about the only semi-organized anticrud group I've hit on has been Alliance of Security Analysis Professionals. I don't know anything about the "Alliance" although I see several individual "help" web sites that I recognize by name.

Several of the "members" linked in the sidebar require a login to look at what they've got, so I haven't gone to many of them. One "member site" with whom I happen to have some familiarity, TomCoyote, shows 51 hits for a site search for "Fun Web" (0 for FunWeb). The few I looked at seem to be all individuals trying to get rid of search toolbars. Apparently there are several "added gimmicks" in stuff that bundles the Fun Ware components into some of their own stuff.

Nothing too helpful, I'm afraid.

Incidentally, the main site is back up apparently. I got in at about 11:40 or so Central US time (~12:40 'cat time), if you're still on the other server.

John

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 01:31 PM

Loads of possibilities Steve, including spyware & adware slowing up a computer. Please don't let my doubts about this particular diagnosis put you off considering a program like spybot. Even when I was on Windows I managed to muddle through without a need but it wasn't so long back Pip asked me to look at hers (for those that know the machines, I'd say a 1ghz machine was running more like a 486) and what I found on it was a sort of horror story - it was no wonder things were slow and it took me hours by hand to get it clean again.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 01:36 PM

Off for an after tea sleep now but thanks John. That's about all I've come up with too - users either being advised to or wanting to get shut of the pest.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 02:55 AM

I resent the remark that it is the fault of us 'Brits drinking too much tea'....

I hate tea and consequently never drink the stuff..

But Mudcat goes down on me quite regularly : )!

LTS

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 05:05 AM

Lucky you!!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Peace
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 05:07 AM

Be still my beating heart.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 05:20 AM

That's it 10:15 UK time on the dot, seized up again. Max must be tearing his hair out. I'm still a bit curious that this round of problems although blamed on Fun Web coincided with a new bit of software, anyway good luck Max in sorting it out.
Giok

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 05:25 AM

It was 3:15 AM Alberta time. Same thing.

Brucie

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 05:26 AM

I agree, 10:15ish and it goes kaput!
Maybe we should keep a record of this!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 05:34 AM

I tried at 5:31 AM Eastern time...and couldn't get in the front door..

but it may have been locked before then.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 05:36 AM

I could ask Brucie don't you have better things to do at 3:15 AM..
But I guess he could ask me the same thing at 5:31 AM..

So I'll keep my mouth shut ;o))


Azizi

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 05:57 AM

"I agree, 10:15ish and it goes kaput!
Maybe we should keep a record of this!"

Won't find anything to play it on. Keep a CD instead.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,wrinkles
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 06:31 AM

well I must admit I'm getting used to this

Mudcat is down in the nornings after about 10am or so (UK Time) abd back up around sometine in the after noon and one has to used the back door.

It's like dealing with a manager who dosn't want to pay you!

Wrinkles

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 07:24 AM

I suppose it provides a good way of demonstrating that, when picky people like me complain about GUESTs, it's not GUESTs we are complaining about, just the ones who insist on not putting anything in the "From" box.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 07:25 AM

...like I'm doing here.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,pavane
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 08:23 AM

So why is the 'backdoor' not susceptible to this problem? Is it related to the login process? Is that the only difference?

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Giok 99
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 08:31 AM

You're very picky today Mr McGrath!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 09:09 AM

The backdoor is on a different server. And the reason you don't have (can't get) a cookie here is that all the login stuff is on the server that's bogged down. If you ask for a cookie here, this server has to go to that server to make you one, and this server can't get into that server any better than we can.

If you come back in through the backdoor when the main server is accessible, you can get a cookie here - but then you'll have to get another one when you go back to the main server. (been there, done that, just to check it out)

The main complaints I found on the web that are remotely similar are all about the "new" MSN bot. I don't find many that complain about the traffic. Mostly just people that don't want MSN stomping around in their servers.

Three or four descriptions of similar buffer stuffing from bots weren't able to identify the crawler that's causing it. One estimate is that there are over n,000 crawlers out there from decent law-abiding search engines, and quite a few individual users have their own home-made ones; but none of these seem to cause much problem.

Three complaints about heavy traffic all appeared to point to some lawyer that hit once, copied everything on the site, and never came back. Apparently the same lawyer in two of the three. Copyright chaser?

One possibly applicable note that a hard limit on the number of processes the server can start might keep the server from stalling, but it would mean you'd get an error message if the que was full instead of just looking at a blank screen. The experts who were discussing it didn't seem able to come with how to limit the number, and I don't know how similar their front end is to what Max is using now.

John

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 09:18 AM

Max, according to Netcraft is running O'Reily Website Pro on Win2K. I    don't know when O'Relly stopped doing it but I'd feel fairly safe in suggesting it's an unusual combination, possibly stranger still with Cold Fusion on top.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 09:35 AM

Also, the cookie bit is innacurate. Cookie data is acutualy picked up by a browser (it's stored on your machine) and sent with a page request. The server acts on the cookie data you send it. I'm not sure what this cookie problem is though.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Giok 99
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 09:48 AM

Also the site becomes inaccessable at a time when the traffic is lightest, US night time, which means that it can't be caused by the weight of traffic.
Giok

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 09:51 AM

"...an unusual combination,.."

But one that has proven to work better than this in the past.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 11:08 AM

Back in front door 16:05
G

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 11:20 AM

Front door 16:19pm. What a pain in the sphincter this all is!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 04:46 PM

Jon -

The backdoor site apparently uses a little different cookie than the main one. If you have a cookie for the main one, it doesn't work when you go to the backdoor. Hence you're GUEST there.

If you get a new cookie by logging in while you're at the backdoor, it appears to overwrite the one from the main server, and you'll be logged in there.

When you come back here (main server), with the cookie you got at the backdoor, you'll be GUEST here until you log in again.

If the main server is bogged down, you can't log in at the backdoor, because the member info needed to verify the login (your name/password) apparently is only on the main server. If you have a backdoor cookie it will work there but not on main. You can't log in and get a backdoor cookie unless the main server is available.

Apparently you can't have cookies valid on both sites on your own machine at the same time. (You could perhaps export one of each into separate folders, and restore whichever one you need, if you want to be logged in on either site.)

At least that's how it worked when I tested it by logging in (while main was accessible) at the backdoor.

John

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 08:09 PM

John, I don't understand why it doesn't work on the back door but I can assure of this.

The "main" MC cookie passes on your usereID (which should be seperate for cookie each server) - a number to recognise you. This will be looked up on the database in the same way things like posts are. That's how 2 servers work here - there is a common database and your Id number with assosciated details will be stored in exactly the same place as posts are stored - but if that went, you would not even be reading posts.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 04:54 AM

Jon -

I can't say for sure why it doesn't work, but if I have a cookie from the main server, I'm me here, but GUEST if I go to the backdoor server. Apparently that happens to everyone.

I can log in at the backdoor if the main server is up but I can't if the main server doesn't answer. Several people have commented about not being able to log in at the backdoor. If they went there while the main server was responding, I'm pretty sure they could log in there. I've done it.

If I log in at the backdoor, I'm me until I come back here. When I bring the backdoor cookie here (main server) I'm GUEST until I log in on the main server and get a new cookie.

While it surprised me, the cookie I get here, and the cookie I get at the backdoor, are not interchangeable and it won't let me keep both at the same time. (Observed and confirmed by three separate cycles, both servers up, logged in, go to other server and I'm not logged in. Log in on other server, verify login, go back to first server and I'm not logged in. If main server is not responding, I can't log in on the other one.)

Note that when you go to HELP with a cookie from the main server, you're GUEST there too. I frankly haven't tried to log in there, since it's an occasional, and relatively rare, trip. Since HELP is usually up when the main server doesn't respond, it's assumed it's on a different server, but I don't know if it's the same server as the backdoor threads.

I would expect both servers to have the member name list(s); but the backdoor is missing some information, possible the passwords?, that prevents it from letting you log in if the main server isn't there. At least that's been what I've seen on several tries.

If we're on schedule, I suppose the main server should quit responding in about a half hour. I may not stay up for it, since it's 03:52 local now.

John

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 05:03 AM

John, you are part right.

A cookie is sent to the site/server, eg. if you were to visit the Annexe, your machine would send me the cookies assosciated with jonbanjo.com and not any other site.

Help and this 99 backdoor are actually the same machine at the moment. www is a different server.

The situation with the help forum is different though. The base of Mudcat was a Cold Fusion tutorial program and help pretty much reflects that old program. It doesn't cater for things like members that were later additions produced by Max/Mudcat.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 05:03 AM

fogrot to put my name in the last post - sorry.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: JennyO
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 05:10 AM

Well if it's gonna go down today (tonight 9.10pm here in Oz) and if it runs true to form, we've got about 5 more minutes or so before it happens again.

Jenny

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 05:16 AM

Oh and John, if you are interested, the old original base source code still exists on the web. I've just found it here

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 06:05 AM

Interesting - Saturday NOT a normal working day in UK and the cat seems to be perfectly normal ! Does this help the idea that it is being triggered by someone with a bug on a work 'puter ??

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 06:16 AM

FWIW Leadfingers, I do think something along those lines is a possibility (and that perhaps the under construction first time round was co-incidence - it is a commonish one when you install a server but don't set pages up). I just don't believe that funweb products is the culprit if it is anything like that.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Giok in the blizzard.
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 01:55 PM

It has just died again here at about 18:30 GMT after having been a bit 'iffy' for 10 mins or so.
Giok

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,catsPHiddle
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 02:14 PM

Its 19:15 GMT here and the only way in is through the back door!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Giok 99
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 02:26 PM

Hello Miss Pettigrew [what a good Scottish name]how's your limp?
Giok

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,jacqui.c
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 02:26 PM

it's 14.26 here and it's still out.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 03:02 PM

Ooh That Kendall what's he like? Tell him to put it away there's a dear!
Giok¦¬]

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 03:24 PM

Back again 20:20

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 04:11 PM

Giok...the limp is ok although I hope not to have a limp by the end of all the physio!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Giok 99
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 08:43 AM

13:30 GMT a funny time to die!!
G

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 08:46 AM

Back again within 10 mins; odd!!
G

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 12:40 PM

Just got back after the weekend away and tried to get in, but the only way is the back door again. It's 5.41pm in England. That tends to blow the idea of it being someone's work computer a bit.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 03:47 AM

After managing to stay up, as far as I could tell ALL DAY yesterday, it's gone really early this morning. I tried to get in at 8.15am English time and had to use the back door.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 04:43 AM

Are you sure it was that this time Lynne? I am getting in through the front door and I doubt very much that Max would have got up at this time to re-boot a server. He must need sleep...

I've had terrible problems with the Internet over the last couple of day. Vartec my broadband supplier went down several times, some of which I believe was down to a major country wide BT problem.

I use freeuk for a back up dial route in and that has taken me up to 1/2 hour to get a dial in. So that's 2 ISPs who had problems.

It's possible if there were big national Internet problems, it might have been co-incidental timing that allowed one route to work for you but the other not.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 05:45 AM

Well as I said before I couldn't get in either door at 13:30 on the 12th, and the same happened again last night at about 22:30 when there was a mass dooring in the Mudchat dept.
Giok

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: MBSLynne
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 06:12 AM

Well I don't know Jon, being a total techno-idiot. All I know is that I got a message about "unable to find the server mudcat.org", but I got straight in by the back door. I tried again before I went off line and could still not get in. I went straight in this time through the front door though, at just after 11.00 am English time.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 06:37 AM

That could be either Lynne. While I do like tech and could even run to writing small trivial programs in a variety of languages (pascal like, basic like or c like), but nothing complicated, a lot of my attempts at diagnosis don't really demand anything tech headed.

An indication of where a problem lies can be to try to reach other sites. If I can reach 20 others without problem and I can't get to Mudcat or Mudcat is slow for example, it is a pretty reasonable indication that the problem is with Mudcat and not with the Internet in general. I do things like that quite often when things don't work for me.

My router is also helpful as is the case now - (assuming I haven't got the post through and this is a duplicate. It is telling me at the moment it can not connect to Vartec [again]) The number of times this ISPP has fallen over in the past week is getting to be really annoying.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Leadfingers
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 07:19 AM

Just a thought , allowing for the fact that I am NOT a 'puter geek at all , but its been OK in the morning both days this week - and its Half term in UK isnt it ? Could this be trigered by a SCHOOL 'puter ??

The odd drop outs at different times could be caused by a number of different things - A Hiccup with a line in Mudcat County , or whatever . I was in Mudchat last night and we all got bunged out for about ten minutes !

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: MBSLynne
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 07:27 AM

Well I went into a couple of other sites with no probs this morning so it did seem to be only Mudcat.

Terry...half term was last week..

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 07:49 AM

Could be Leadfingers but I honestly don't know. The general uptime for Mudcat see here is poor but there certainly to me seems to be more problems than just that at the moment.

I do have my doubts as a general principle over things like Mudchat that use the main server to hold chat variables and serve pages to participants on a server that is already (IMO) unstable but there is no way I can identify that as a cause of problems, and given that as far as my best guest would be, most chats would be at MC night time and problems appear mostly at MC early morning, I would suspect my own doubts are unfounded in terms of the cause.

It also needs to be remembered that MC has run more reliably as this with chat running.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 03:10 PM

Down again at 8.12 after having been up all day again. It's changed it's time it seems!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 03:40 PM

A subtle change noted: Previously when I went to the backdoor and logged in (while the main server was up) my cookie for the main server got crunched and I had to log in again when I returned to the main one. I tried it again over the weekend, and managed to get a cookie (or maybe it's two?) that seems to let me be a real person both places - or at least that did all day Saturday.

John

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: nutty
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 04:17 PM

I had to stay in today as I was waiting for a delivery. I accessed Mudcat (in the normal way) at various times throughout the day with no problems at all.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 12:01 PM

" The general uptime for Mudcat is poor"

There's an understatement...

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Giok 99
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 12:03 PM

Locked out again

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Flamenco ted
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 12:06 PM

ditto!!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 12:20 PM

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,pavane
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 12:45 PM

From the thread so far, can we make the following statements?

1. The problem sometimes clears by itself
2. At other times, it is cleared by a reboot
3. It does not depend on the NUMBER of people logged in
4. It does NOT seem to be associated with spyware, adware etc

If so, it would seem likely that it is caused by someone external
accessing the site.

In which case is it the same person/site each time, or a different one? Is there any way to check the access stats and find out?

Does the server software allow sufficient monitoring that could detect someone downloading the whole site? Has anyone been able to monitor the system while it is 'down' and look at the disk & CPU utilisation?

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Charley Noble
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 12:52 PM

Well, I was doing a Forum search for threads about Rudy Vallee and Tattooed Lady song. It never recovered from that search.

I promise never to do it again.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,PoppaGator
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 01:00 PM

Had to use the "backdoor" today for the first time in almost a week. This was an everyday occurence every day for the previous week.

My last two or three posts are showing up as "GUEST," unidentified; I tend to forget when I'm "cookieless."

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: JeZeBeL
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 02:45 PM

What's the backdoor for mudcat as I tried ragtime and that didn't work and I haven't been able to get on all day and I've been bored at work......

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Azizi
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 02:53 PM

jeZebel,

Here's what I use when the front door doesn't work:
http://207.103.108.99/threads.cfm

I've also seen this in a post, but I've never used it.
or
http://buddy.mudcat.org/threads.cfm



Azizi

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: MBSLynne
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 03:54 PM

buddy hasn't worked for me for ages.

I was in at lunch time (12-1.30 in England) and again at 2.30-3.00, and got straight in this time too...it seems to be down sometimes, but usually seems to be up again much quicker than it was for a while, and for more of the time

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: annamill
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 04:01 PM

HEY!! Max's doing the best he can with what he has. He has a wife and child to support and a job he goes to and still somehow manages to keep Mudcat going. He could use a little help you know!! How about putting up or shutting up? We don't need a whole thread full of complainers! Just enjoy it.

I'm sorry! All this complaining has finally made me mad.

Now here is a thread that should be censored!

Annamill

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: MBSLynne
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 04:07 PM

I don't think most people are complaining, I think they are trying to work out what the problem is

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Azizi
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 04:17 PM

I agree with MBSLynne.

I appeciate Max's efforts.

I think that we're glad that Mudcat is here and wemiss it when it's down.

I for one have not a clue what the technical posts are 'saying'.
It's all mumbo jumbo to me.

I just read this thread to confirm that I wasn't the only one who experienced trouble getting in the door..

So I guess that means I'm addicted to Mudcat. It's a good thing that most of the time I can check in to threads that interest me and do my work too.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 04:24 PM

Not complaining ~ just logging information that *might* help someone diagnose what's going on.

I'm back in via the front door as of 3+pm CDT time (US). I have a couple of PM exchanges going on, so I tried logging in about once an hour throughout the day ~ kept striking out until 10-20 minutes ago.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 05:18 PM

Yep Annamill I think perhaps you misunderstand, if we were just pissin' an' moanin' why would we give info like times etc to try and help Max pin down the glytch. Easy there pardner let them reins dangle on your horses neck for a bit.
Giok ¦¬]

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: annamill
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 01:33 AM

Sorry I went off like that. I guess I'm over protective. I apologize for my uncalled for explosion.

Annamill

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Snuffy
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 08:48 AM

I usually come in here between 1.00 and 2.30 pm UK time, and it's been perfectly well-behaved every day this week, whereas last week I had to use the back door every day. No trouble early evening or midnight/1am this week either.

Is it now playing up at bad times for US Catters, or is it "reliable" now.

And here's how we amused ourselves a few years ago when the Cat kept going down Cat Down

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 09:19 AM

Today, Thursday, I got "Mudcat.org not found" at 8:50 a.m. Eastern STANDARD time. Came in the back door. Reading this thread, I decided to try how it is now. Exited to the Desktop, got on again, and:

At 9:15 a.m. Eastern STANDARD time, Mudcat home came up just fine.
Of course I don't know how long there had been a problem before I came on at 9:50.

DAve Oesterreich

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 06:01 AM

JeZeBeL - the old alternative entrances to Mudcat - Ragtime, Buddy etc. became redundant quite a while back when Max replaced his old computers with a new set of hardware. These do not have the same set of names which the old servers had. Now to contact the ain regular setup you just use "www.mudcat.org".
The new "Back Door" is a separate thing (I think it is on the same machine as the Mudcat Help forum), which people such as Jon and John have spotted and is often working when the main system has been unreachable.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 06:38 AM

Geoff, that is not quite accurate. There have for example been times where some of the names have been the same machine and others when they weren't. I think the best machine was one Max had when in buisiness. Loki at one time reported itself to netcraft as an AS/400. It later reported itself as having the same IP address (and a Win PC) as www.

A ns lookup now for mudcat.org reveals 3 web servers

Help is on 99

Buddy does still show his presence on Mudcats public records as 110

www, loki, ragtime, shorty and taj are names assigned to 105.

They may or may not be accessible and if they are, may or may not be the same copy of the server programs (though the database they use would have to be common). It can be difficult to work out what is what as a server can host many sites and a default web site for an IP number can be set. At the moment, for example although help is on 99, the default for that IP address brings up a copy of the main forum..

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 07:21 AM

Just tried http://buddy.mudcat.org to see if it still works. It looks a pretty good mp3 site! Well worth a visit.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 08:01 AM

Listening to Peggy Lee singing Fever as I type... I don't really know anything about her but I still love her singing of this. Perhaps she (in the late category) could be another candidate as being an expressive singer.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 10:08 AM

Well it seems to be up and down like a whore's drawers today. One minute I'm in the chat...next minute I'm out and can't get back into the site, a few minutes later it's ok so I go back in and then it chucks me out again and the site's down. I'm getting dizzy!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Giok
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 10:17 AM

Just lie down till it goes away dear
¦¬]

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 12:05 PM

Looks like the weekend crash is becoming a steady state

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 02:54 PM

Steady state?

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 11:52 AM

I hate to drag this thread up again, but is it just me?
I've been trying to log on for 7 hours here in the UK, but now I've managed all seems like normal. Has anyone else had a problem, am I going mad, should I just go away and lie down till I feel better?
Giok ¦¬]

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 11:54 AM

4.45pm Hull time, only just got in. Tedious to say the least.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 11:54 AM

I think John it was all of us in the UK who could not sign in,so dont go and lie down.
Scooby

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: sue exhull
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 11:55 AM

Im also UK and I havent been able to get on all day until just now (4.45pm) it just keeps saying page cannot be displayed. Dont know why! But at least Im on now :)

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 12:03 PM

Well I've just looked at the 'Threads since you last posted', and it appears to have been off for 9 hours, so it's not just us. I think it waits till poor old Max goes to beddy byes, and then it sneaks off to see some pretty little server wench down the street.
Giok

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 12:03 PM

Welcome back - but if you keep leaving me like this you can go for ever!!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 12:15 PM

5pm gmt and its all up and running - Several of us in Chat already

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Giok
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 12:32 PM

You mean were on chat!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Leadfingers
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 12:32 PM

That'll teach me to keep quiet !!It lasted half an hour !!

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Peace
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 12:34 PM

I tried to get in just as you guys got the boot. When I got there the cupboard was bare.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: MBSLynne
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 01:57 PM

Couldn't even get in the back door at all today. Hopefull it'll stay up long enough for a bit of chat tonight...

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: Peace
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 01:59 PM

This IS tonight where you are.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: GUEST,Scooby
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 05:04 AM

Mudcat went down GMT 10.00 today.

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: MBSLynne
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 05:24 AM

Well Brucie, I went in to the chat on my own and sat waiting for others to come in and the whole thing fell over on me again so I gave up.......

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: What's up with Mudcat this time!!???
From: MuddleC
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 08:00 AM

Use stronger glue next time Lynne..