lyr req: jump n' jivin'

Subject: RE: lyr req: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 07:34 PM

The discussion about the slang term "gate" provides us with an opportunity to give well deserved "props" to Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown;

Here's an excerpt from his Wikipedia page:

Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown (April 18, 1924 — September 10, 2005[1]) was a Louisiana and Texan American blues musician.

He was an acclaimed multi-instrumentalist, who played an array of musical instruments such as guitar, fiddle, mandolin, viola as well as harmonica and drums. He won a Grammy Award for Traditional Blues in 1983 for his album, Alright Again!

Born in Vinton, Louisiana, Brown was raised in Orange, Texas. His professional musical career began in 1945, playing drums in San Antonio, Texas. Tagged with the "Gatemouth" handle by a high school instructor who accused Brown of having a "voice like a gate," Brown has used it to his advantage throughout his illustrious career.[1] He took note, and his fame took off, during his impromptu fill-in in a 1947 concert by T-Bone Walker in Don Robey's Bronze Peacock Houston nightclub.[1] When Walker became ill, Brown took up his guitar and played "Gatemouth Boogie," to the delight of the audience."

-snip-

Gatemouth Brown's nickname is similar to that of the great jazz trumpeter & singer "Satchmo" Louie Armstrong . "Satchmo" is short for "Satchelmouth". See this quote from http://ask.yahoo.com/20021111.html

"Some say his nickname [Satchelmouth]* stemmed from his wide, infectious grin, while others state it was a nickname he earned in band class as his cheeks blew up when he played the cornet.

Regardless, "Satchmo" was coined during a 1932 trip to London when a magazine editor greeted Armstrong with "Hello, Satchmo." Armstrong liked the shortened version of his nickname so much he used it as an album title. It stuck."

* a "satchel" is a large bag with shoulder straps

Subject: RE: lyr req: jump n' jivin'
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 07:01 PM

Jim Dixon, my post from earlier has disappeared-- I heard that line as JAKE, not "Gate" and one word less in that line. I get:

I'm sorry, Jake, but you got here late. All the jive is gone.

~S~

Subject: RE: lyr req: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 06:54 PM

Then there's the phrase "shuckin and jivin." Here's an entry from http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006051720041 that was submitted by an anonymous Professor X who wrote that he or she teaches African American Studies courses:

"To shuck and jive" originally referred to the intentionally misleading words and actions that African-Americans would employ in order to deceive racist Euro-Americans in power, both during the period of slavery and afterwards. The expression was documented as being in wide usage in the 1920s, but may have originated much earlier.

"Shucking and jiving" was a tactic of both survival and resistance. A slave, for instance, could say eagerly, "Oh, yes, Master," and have no real intention to obey. Or an African-American man could pretend to be working hard at a task he was ordered to do, but might put up this pretense only when under observation. Both would be instances of "doin' the old shuck 'n jive."

Today, the expression has expanded somewhat from earlier usage, and is now sometimes used to mean "talking pure baloney," "goofing off," or "goofing around." The original meaning of deceit often remains, however."

Subject: RE: lyr req: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 06:49 PM

Here's some more information about the etymology of the word "jive":

http://everything2.com/title/jive 's entry for the word "jive" indicates that

"The word appears to have originated in black American English; the exact origin is "unknown". Meaning number one is our favorite. It's a noun: "Talk that is misleading, untrue, empty". It's a verb, too: L. Armstrong, 1928: "Don't Jive Me", "title of phonograph record". There's even an adjectival form: "jive-ass", first appearing in print 1964"...

-snip0

That entry goes on to provide another adjectival form that has something to do with a person's mother. Since I'm such a good girl, I substitute that jive-ass adjectival form for "jive bucket-head". I've no idea where I got that from). And I can't bring myself to write that other form, let alone say it to someone.

The editor of Everything.com also writes that "The OED tells us that the noun "jive" first appeared in 1928, in the capable hands of somebody named R. Fisher Wells, in a book called Walls of Jericho, and then again a year later by T. Gordon in Born to Be. Born to be what? Dunno. Both used it in sense one, as above. Over time, we see the world change: The last citation given for sense one is from Black World, October 1973: "...total liberation, unification, and empowerment of Afrika... Anything short of that is jive."

There are other minor meanings: "A fast, lively type of jazz"; "lively and uninhibited dancing... jitterbugging"; marijuana, or a joint thereof (the alternate spelling "gyve" is given as found in the San Francisco Call-Bulletin, 1938; we're not convinced that the good folks at the Call-Bulletin knew what they were talking about).

The other big meaning there is a variety of American English associated with Harlem, with black Americans, and with jazz musicians; "see also jive talk", it says, but doesn't mention the Bee Gees. That's probably just as well. What's best, though, is that the first citation given for this sense is from 1938, from a man identified as "C. Calloway", and a work identified as "Hi De Ho". And of course we all remember that fine cinematic milestone Airplane, and the nice, helpful old lady who announces, "I speak jive!"

**

Speaking of Africa (or Afrika, which is the Black nationalist spelling of that continent's name),in his 1994 dictionary of African American slang Juba To Jive editor Clarence Major writes that 'jive' is "a Wolof [West African word] meaning "gossip, false talk, con game, loose talk, to sneer".
-snip-

I have a friend who is Wolof who immigrated to the USA years ago from The Gambia. I asked him about this etymology, and he agreed with Clarence Major. But maybe he was jivin me.

Subject: RE: lyr req: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 06:10 PM

Here's a link to a YouTube sound file (with a cover photo) of
Java Jive Ink Spots

And here's a YouTube video of Java Jive - The King Sisters (1941)

"In this Soundie from 1941, the four King Sisters (Luise, Alyce, Donna, and Vonnie), accompanied by Alvino Rey and his Orchestra, with Skeets Herfurt and Dick Morgan, perform the song "Java Jive"."

Subject: RE: lyr req: jump n' jivin'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 06:04 PM

A few more. These titles contain the word JIVIN' or JIVING but not JIVE.

HIGH JIVING, Ernie Fields & His Orch, 1939
JIVIN BIG BILL BLUES, Blind Boy Fuller, 1939
JIVIN' JELLY ROLL BLUES, Bee Turner, 1930
JIVIN' JOE JACKSON, Count Basie & His Orchestra, 1945
JIVIN' MR FULLER BLUES, Big Bill Broonzy, 1940
JIVIN' THE BLUES, Sonny Boy Williamson, 1940
JIVIN' THE MISSOURI WALTZ, Erskine Butterfield Blue Boys, 1940
JIVIN' THE VIBES, Lionel Hampton & His Orch, 1937
JIVIN' WITH JARVIS, Hampton's Rhythm Boys, 1940
JIVIN' WOMAN BLUES, Blind Boy Fuller, 1938
JIVING MAN BLUES, Leroy's Buddy (Bill Gaither), 1937
JIVING THE JEEP, Red Norvo And His Orch, 1937
JUST JIVIN' AROUND, Sam Price & His Texas Blusican, 1941
LITTLE JIVIN' WOMAN, Curtis Jones, no date
MY JIVIN' WOMAN, James Hall, 1938
QUIT YOUR JIVING, Alfred Fields, 1939
RIDIN' AND JIVIN', Earl Fatha Hines, 1939
STOP JIVIN' ME MAMA, Blind Boy Fuller, 1938
SWEET JIVIN' MAMA, Blind Blake, 1929

Subject: RE: lyr req: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 06:03 PM

Wow! Thanks, Jim.

The titles on that list that I think are most "interesting" are:

YOU'RE JUST FULL OF JIVE, Lil Green & Her Trio, 1941

CRAPSHOOTER JIVE/A WELL TAKE UM A JOE, Slim & Slam, 1939

DO YOU DIG MY JIVE?, Sam Price's Texas Blusicians, 1941

and

YODELING JIVE, Abe Lyman & His Californians, 1939

But given the definition change in the meaning of the word "jive", in my opinion, the winning title is "You're Just Full Of Jive", though I wish I knew how "Yodeling Jive" sounds.

:o)

Subject: RE: lyr req: jump n' jivin'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 05:50 PM

I found all these titles using honkingduck's search of the Online 78-rpm Discographical Project database. It may not be complete.

47TH STREET JIVE, Andy Kirk & Clouds of Joy, 1941
47TH STREET JIVE, Honey Dripper (R. Sykes), 1941
ALL THE JIVE IS GONE, Andy Kirk & Clouds of Joy, 1936
ARE YOU HEP TO JIVE, Cab Calloway & His Orchestra, 1940
BASS MAN JIVE, Ocie Stockyard's Wanderers, 1941
BEER PARLOR JIVE, Hi-flyers, 1941
BLACKSNAKIN' JIVER, Blind Boy Fuller, 1938
CRAPSHOOTER JIVE/A WELL TAKE UM A JOE, Slim & Slam, 1939
DO YOU DIG MY JIVE?, Sam Price's Texas Blusicians, 1941
DOIN' THE JIVE, Glenn Miller & His Orchestra, 1937
DON'T GIVE ME THAT JIVE, Fats Waller & His Rhythm, 1941
DON'T JIVE ME (by Lil Hardin), Louis Armstrong & Earl Hines, 1928
DON'T JIVE ME BABY, Buster Bennett Trio, 1946
DON'T JIVE ME MAMA, Tampa Red, 1942
DON'T TRY YOUR JIVE ON ME, Edgar Sampson & His Orchestra, 1939
DON'T TRY YOUR JIVE ON ME, Fats Waller & His Rhythm, 1938
FARISH STREET JIVE, Little Brother Montgomery, 1936
G.I. JIVE, Johnny Mercer, no date
G.I. JIVE, Louis Jordan Tympani 5, no date
GREEN GOON JIVE, Jan Savitt & His Orchestra, 1941
HEP TEE HOOTIE (JOOK BOX JIVE), Jimmy Dorsey & His Orchestra (Helen O'Connell, vocalist), 1940
HERE COMES THE MAN WITH THE JIVE, Stuff Smith & Onyx Club Boys, 1936
HIT THAT JIVE, JACK, King Cole Trio, 1941
HIT THAT JIVE, JACK, Skeets Tolbert Gentlemen Swing, 1940
I'M WISE TO THE JIVE, Monkey Joe, 1939
I'M WISE TO YOUR SWEET LINE OF JIVE, Leroy's Buddy (Bill Gaither), 1937
JAM AND JIVE, Wingy Manone & His Orchestra, 1941
JAM AND JIVE (PT.2), Wingy Manone & His Orchestra, 1941
JAM AND JIVE (PT.3), Wingy Manone & His Orchestra, 1941
JAM AND JIVE (PT.4), Wingy Manone & His Orchestra, 1941
JAM AND JIVE (PT.5), Wingy Manone & His Orchestra, 1941
JAM AND JIVE (PT.6), Wingy Manone & His Orchestra, 1941
JAVA JIVE, Al Donahue & His Orchestra, 1941
JAVA JIVE, Four King Sisters, 1946
JAVA JIVE, Ink Spots, 1940
JAVA JIVE, Maurice Rocco & Rockin' Rhythm, 1941
JAVA JIVE, Modernaires, 1950
JERSEY JIVE, Ozzie Nelson & His Orchestra, 1941
JERSEY SIDE JIVE, Charles Mitchell, no date
JITTERBUG JIVE, Bill Boyd & Cowboy Ramblers, 1941
JIVE (PAGE ONE OF THE HEP DICTIONARY), Cab Calloway & His Orchestra, 1938
JIVE AFTER FIVE, Carl Perkins, no date
JIVE AND SMILE (AIN'T GONNA BE NO AFTERWHILE), Bob Skyles & His Skyrockets, no date
JIVE AT FIVE, Count Basie & His Orchestra, 1939
JIVE BLUES, Andy Boy, 1937
JIVE BLUES, Peter Chatman Washboard Band, 1940
JIVE FORMATION PLEASE, Cab Calloway & His Orchestra, 1939
JIVE IS HERE, Rosetta Howard Harlem Serenad., 1939
JIVE IS JUMPIN', THE, Four Clefs, 1939
JIVE LOVER, Bea Foote, 1938
JIVE LOVER, Leola Wilson, 1932
JIVE MAN BLUES, Frankie Halfpint Jaxon, 1929
JIVE ME BLUES, Clifford Gibson, 1929
JIVE ME, BABY, Johnnie Temple, 1940
JIVE OF MINE, THE, Bumble Bee Slim, no date
JIVE STOMP, Duke Ellington & His Orchestra, 1933
JUMPIN' JIVE, Van Alexander & His Orchestra, 1939
JUMPIN' JIVE, THE, Cab Calloway & His Orchestra, 1939
JUMPIN' JIVE, THE, Jimmy Dorsey & His Orchestra, 1939
JUMPIN' JIVE, THE, Lionel Hampton & His Orchestra, 1939
JUMPING JIVE, THE, Andrews Sisters, 1939
JUNGLE JIVE, Tommy Reynolds & His Orchestra, 1940
KILLIN' JIVE, Cats and the Fiddle, 1939
LINE A JIVE, Blanche Calloway & Her Band, 1935
MINOR JIVE, Frankie Newton & His Orchestra, 1939
NO NAME JIVE, Charlie Barnet & His Orchestra, 1940
NO NAME JIVE, Charlie Barnet & His Orchestra, 1940
NO NAME JIVE, Gene Krupa & His Orchestra, 1940
NO NAME JIVE, Glen Gray Casa Loma Orchestra, 1940
PICADILLY JIVE, Glen Hardman's Hot Five, 1940
SLIP HORN JIVE, Glenn Miller Orchestra, 1939
SOLID JIVE, Curtis Jones, 1940
STATE STREET JIVE, Cow Cow Davenport, 1928
STRICTLY JIVE, Chick Webb & His Orchestra, 1937
TIRED OF YOUR LINE OF JIVE, Leroy's Buddy (Bill Gaither), 1936
UPTOWN JIVE, Variety Boys (3 Bits), 1941
WHY DO YOU JIVE ME DADDY?, Ruth Ladson & 3 Shadows, 1941
WINDY CITY JIVE, Earl Hines & His Orchestra, 1941
YO YO JIVE, Doc Peter Clayton, 1935
YODELIN JIVE, Ranny Weeks & His Orchestra, 1940
YODELIN' JIVE, Andrews Sisters, 1939
YODELING JIVE, Abe Lyman & His Californians, 1939
YOU'RE JUST FULL OF JIVE, Lil Green & Her Trio, 1941

Subject: RE: lyr req: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 01:49 PM

Hello, Jim.

Thanks for sharing that song. And, yes this thread is for songs that have "jive" in the title and/or in its lyrics.

Why? Because the information about these songs and the videos of these songs are interesting.

Btw, the slang word "gate" is included in that dictionary of jive talk whose link I posted on 09 Mar 09 - 01:35 PM:

Gate (n.) -- a male person (a salutation), abbr. for "gate-mouth."

Subject: Lyr Add: ALL THE JIVE IS GONE
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Mar 09 - 01:30 PM

Are we collecting songs that have "jive" in the title? Here's one more, from RedHotJazz.com.


ALL THE JIVE IS GONE
Click to play
As sung by Andy Kirk and His Twelve Clouds of Joy, 1936. Decca 744B.

The ladies crave, the countries rave, this jive, jive, jive.
This modern treat makes life complete. Jive, jive, jive!

All the jive is gone. All the jive is gone.
I'm sorry, Gate(?), but you got in here late. All the jive is gone.

All the jive is gone. All the jive is gone.
So come on in and drink some gin. All the jive is gone.

All the jive is gone. All the jive is gone.
Things won't be quite so bright tonight 'cause all the jive is gone.

All the jive is gone. All the jive is gone.
What an awful fix! Can't get my kicks 'cause all the jive is gone.

Jive's gone. (Jive's gone.) Jive's gone. (Jive's gone.)
Round you go to Mexico. All the jive is gone.

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 10:26 PM

Here's MORE vintage swing jitterbug lindy hop style Day @ Races

"MORE vintage swing jitterbug lindy hop style African american tap hoofin"

-snip-

This clip from the 1937 Marx Brothers film "Day At The Races" also features "Whitey's Lindy Hoppers".

Btw, given the dates of this film, and the other clips of scenes of Black folks in American movies, it's not surprising that there are elements of subtle racism and negative stereotyping in these films (for instance the little Black girl whose hair is styled like a pickaninny in the "Groovie Jive Dance video" and the obligatory shot of the Black man rolling his eyes at about 1:12 in the "Day At The Races" clip). And what song does that Black woman in that "Day At The Races" scene so ably sing? "All God's children got rhythm".
[Oh, is that so??]

After she sings this song, the Black woman dances with a heavyset Black man, and they both do a very good job of it as do the other dancers who are shown. But my bet is that that scene showcased an overweight Black man dancing for comic relief. It seems that short clips of Black people dancing and/or singing like we don't have a care in the world and Black people as comic relief were standard features of quite a few vintage Hollywood movies.

And-unfortunately-the beat goes on.

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 09:48 PM

Here's a link to a video of real jazz dancing:
Whitey's Lindy Hoppers performing the Big Apple (1939)

"Whitey's Lindy Hoppers performing the Big Apple followed by some crazy Lindy Hoppin'. From the movie Keep Punching, 1939"...

And here's a link to Groovie Movie (1944). Funny jitterbug instructional video.

"Groovie Movie" by Metro Goldwyn Mayer, 1944. Funny jitterbug instructional video."

-snip-

The end of the movie features some actual jitterbug dancing.

[This video features the narrator's use of jive talk.]

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 09:10 PM

Here's the words to the song "Born To Hand Jive" from the Broadway musical and movie
Grease

Born To Hand Jive

Before I was born late one night
My papa said evrythings all right
The doctor let my ma lay down
With her stomach bouncin on the rack

cause a bebop stork was about to arrive
Mama gave birth to the hand jive

I could barely walk when I milked a cow
When I was three I pushed a plow
While chopping wood I moved my legs
And started dancing while I gathered eggs

The townfolk laughed
I was only five
Hell out dance em all
Hes a born hand jive

Born to hand jive baby!
Born to hand jive baby!

Now you can hand jive baby
Oh can you hand jive baby
Born to hand jive baby
Born to hand jive baby
Oh yeah! oh yeah! oh yeah!
Born to hand jive oh yeah!


http://www.icelebz.com/lyrics/olivia_newton-john/grease/born_to_hand_jive.html

There's no information about who wrote this song and composed the music.

**

Here's a link to Born to Hand Jive from Grease (from the movie)

And here's a very short clip of Born To Handjive-Grease on Broadway

**

Presumably, the "Willie and the Handjive" song was danced this way too.

The summary of the clip from the movie reads:
"Who hasn't never ever danced [this]once?"
-snip-

I'm raising my hand.

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 03:55 PM

Here are links to two songs with the word 'jive' in the title:

Cab Calloway & Nicholas Brothers - Jumpin' Jive(1943)

[This is a very high quality video-in sound and film quality]

and

Jive Talkin- Bee Gees
[This is a 1989 performance of the group's 1975 hit Pop song]

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Jayto
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 02:22 PM

Western Kentucky. Cutting a rug is way more common than rug cutters though.It is VERY common here though. You cannot go where there is any dancing at all without hearing the phrase from someone. Whites seem to use it a whole lot more here. It doesn't even have to be good dancing it basically is used to cover anyone that puts thier all into dancing. If they are really moving and having fun they were "cutting a rug." You could walk up to anyone around and "You cut a rug lately?" and they would know what you meant and respond accordingly. I had no idea this was a jive term because once again I have heard it my whole life. I mean alot not just a few times. Age doesn't matter on this phrase either it spans the generations. Like I said I love this thread because I am learning alot from it.

Race relations around here have always been really good. It is a poor area and races have always mixed openly and really good. You can hear it in the music from this area. Musicians have always hung out regardless of race. I never realized how much of the word usage have mixed until this thread. I have read books (or parts of books I have found on the internet) where they have talked about how well race relations were and are in this are and how much musical and cultural barriers blurred here. The more I pay attention the more I see it and once again today I find another example. Food is another thing that totally blurs cultural differences around here. Soul food and home cooking are the same thing. I remember the first time I had Soul Food when I went on my first trip to the west coast in my teens. I was surprised to find it was nothing other than what I had been eating my whole life . my mom cooked it and my friends moms cooked it and I had never heard it called soul food. It was a new experience that was not new at all just the name lol.
Thanks again for this thread I am enjoying this one more than any I have seen in a while.
cya

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 01:59 PM

Btw, Mudcat has a thread on children's rhymes that is called:
Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives

I've seen the phrase "handjive" used to mean "hand clap rhymes" and "performing hand clap games or routines". But, again, I've never known any African American who've used that term-which is not to say that no African American uses it, or used to use it.

I'm assuming that this meaning came from the pattin juba
(hambone) motions that Jayto mentioned earlier in this thread.

As an aside, "pattin juba" also lives on in the steppin' performances of Black Greek letter fraternities and sororities. For those who may be interested, here are links to two sections of my Cocojams.com website that are devoted to fraternity & sorority chants and steppin':

Fraternity & Sorority Chants

and

Internet links to fraternity steppin and stroll videos

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 01:47 PM

No problemo, Jayto. I love stuff like this, too.

You mentioned that you hear "rug cutter" and "cutting a rug" all the time here (with those terms meaning "dancer" and "dancing").
If you don't mind me asking, where is "here" and are the people using those phrases Black or non-Black? (given the demographics of this country, I mostly mean "White" wheh I say non-Black) or do Black people and White people use these phrases in "everyday" conversation where you live?

I know what they mean, but I've never heard any Black people describe themselves as a "rug cutter" or say that they are "cutting the rug" when they mean they are dancing. If a Black person I knows says he or she is "cutting a rug" they mean they are making a rug smaller to fit a floor.

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Jayto
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 01:38 PM

I hear rug cutter and cutting a rug all the time here. They are still really popular phrases. Everytime there is dancing you hear that phrase around here. It is really common for someone going out (dancing or not) to say "we're going to cut a rug" or "we're going rug cutting"

This is a great thread thank you Azizi I am really enjoying it. I am a big word geek anyway. I read alot about word usage and formation so this is right up my alley.
Thanks

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 01:36 PM

Hey, Jayto!

I knew you would be hep to the jive, without being jive (if you know what I mean).

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 01:35 PM

Here are some entries from http://cabcalloway.cc/jive_dictionary.htm

Apple (n.) -- the big town, the main stem, Harlem.
Blip (n.) -- something very good. Ex., "That's a blip"; "She's a blip."
Cat (n.) -- musician in swing band.
Chick (n.) -- girl.
Cop (v.) -- to get, to obtain (see collar; knock).
Freeby (n.) -- no charge, gratis. Ex., "The meal was a freeby."
Gimme some skin (v.) -- shake hands.
Gut-bucket (adj.) -- low-down music.
Hep cat (n.) -- a guy who knows all the answers, understands jive.
Hincty (adj.) -- conceited, snooty.
Jitterbug (n.) -- a swing fan.
Jive (n.) -- Harlemese speech.
Joint is jumping -- the place is lively, the club is leaping with fun.
Kopasetic (adj.) -- absolutely okay, the tops.
Licks (n.) -- hot musical phrases.
Lock up -- to acquire something exclusively. Ex., "He's got that chick locked up"; "I'm gonna lock up that deal."
Mellow (adj.) -- all right, fine. Ex., "That's mellow, Jack."
Nix out (v.) -- to eliminate, get rid of. Ex., "I nixed that chick out last week"; "I nixed my garments" (undressed).
Nod (n.) -- sleep. Ex., "I think I'l cop a nod."
Off the cob (adj.) -- corny, out of date.
Off-time jive (n.) -- a sorry excuse, saying the wrong thing.
Pad (n.) -- bed.
Queen (n.) -- a beautiful girl.
Riff (n.) -- hot lick, musical phrase.
Rug cutter (n.) -- a very good dancer, an active jitterbug.
Salty (adj.) -- angry, ill-tempered.
Send (v.) -- to arouse the emotions. (joyful). Ex., "That sends me!"
Square (n.) -- an unhep person (see icky; Jeff).
The man (n.) -- the law.
Threads (n.) -- suit, dress or costuem (see drape; dry-goods).
Unhep (adj.) -- not wise to the jive, said of an icky, a Jeff, a square.
Vine (n.) -- a suit of clothes.
What's your story? -- What do you want? What have you got to say for yourself? How are tricks? What excuse can you offer? Ex., "I don't know what his story is."
Yarddog (n.) -- uncouth, badly attired, unattractive male or female.
Zoot (adj.) -- exaggerated
Zoot suit (n.) -- the ultimate in clothes. The only totally and truly American civilian suit .

-snip-

Some of these words & phrases are still in current used (like "salty", "threads", and "the man").

Some of these words have been retired because they are considered too old-fashioned. An example from the list above would be "send" (as in the song "Darling, you send me").

And some of these words and phrases aren't used at all nowadays like "rug cutter", "off-time jive" and "off the cob" because-well because they didn't make the cut. :o)

And the meaning of some of those words might even have the completely opposite meaning nowadays. For instance, I've heard and used the word "blip" before as in the sentence "Ain't that a blip?" (Btw, this isn't really a question) That sentence means "Ain't that something?" (with "something" meaning "a mess", something that's "jacked up", something bad" [not good].

One thing this dictionary of jive talk suggests is that all vernacular words and phrases are not created equally.

:o)

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Jayto
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 01:18 PM

I talk alot of jive according to that lol. Thanks Azizi I enjoyed that. I am just wondering where I picked it up. I never realized me and my friends speak so much jive to each other. I am a huge huge swing fan but most of my friends aren't. Interesting real interesting I just learned something about myself. Thanks

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 01:09 PM

Here's a link to an online dictionary of jive talk that is purported to be from Cab Calloway.

http://cabcalloway.cc/jive_dictionary.htm

The editor of that page mentions the song by Cab Calloway / Are You Hep to the Jive ?
[YouTube video-song with still photos]

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Jayto
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 12:54 PM

Oh yeah the older men will clog dance along with the hambone. They create thier own beat and will dance along and/or sing as they do it. When I was younger it used to be a running joke about it. Whenever anything good would happen someone somewhere without fail woud yell out " that needs a hambone!" and someone would always break out with a clog and hambone lol. Man I forgot about that it never failed to be hillarious because it was always very overly exaggerated.

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Jayto
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 12:51 PM

I always heard that (hand jive) called hambone. I have heard ot called hand jivin as well though. What is the difference or is there any? I know in hambonin they use all body parts to produce sound eg slapping knees, elbows, chest, feet whatever they can reach.

Most of the time I hear non-musicians use the phrase talkin jive. Younger cats use it the most.

Hand jivin or whatever is really popular with older men in Ky. They will sing and do it if there is no instrument around. I grew up watching them hand jive (or as they called it hambone) and learned several songs that I play on the guitar this way. I don't do it but it is a strong memory.

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 12:45 PM

Susan, we cross posted.

Great minds thinking alike and all that jazz.

:o)

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 12:44 PM

Here's a link to a vintage video of Johnny Otis' 1958 hit song "Willie And The Handjive"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9Bqf_IxGJU&feature=related

-snip-

In the context of that song, "doin that crazy handjive" is a
Rock n' Roll dance or at least some hand motions that is done while dancing to Rock n' Roll music. The implication in the song is that the person doing "the handjive" is "cool" or "hip" (these being two other vernacular terms that have, for the most part, are no longer used by African Americans and other people who stay up to date with the latest slang words & sayings).

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 12:43 PM

In rock and roll, "Hand Jive" I believe referred to a hand-dance and this may have been the title of the song I'm thinking of with the line, "Doing that crazy hand jive."

Thanks for adding to this great thread, Azizi.

I'll ask our Bishop about "talking Jive" in jazz terminology. I suspect there is a musicians' shorthand called this. If so it would be similar to the shorthand bluegrass and oldtime musicians use, to cue each other into key changes, modulations, chord names (numerical Nashville system), verse repetitions, timing of endings, intros to songs, etc.

Or it could be the jazz equivalent of Talking Blues.

All great areas to explore.

But my point is that most genres of music have a shorthand used by players to convey quick info on stage or in jams, unobtrusively. (Even a capella gospel quartets use one, which I have heard in vintage rehearsal recordings.)

A Jive jazz musician might even use the term to refer to playing musician, not speaking at all.

~Susan

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Jayto
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 12:25 PM

In the modern context I always hear it meant as talking bad about someone or something. I hear it used alot and normally there is trouble brewing when I hear it. It is always used by somebody being told someone is bashing them or something they care about. "I heard he's been talking jive about... or I heard he has been jive talking me when I am not around." I know the historical meaning but that is the most common usage I hear today. Same usage as talking trash ,smack , 11's whatever.
cya
JT

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 12:19 PM

http://dictionary.infoplease.com/jive provides these definitions for the word "jive":

jive

Pronunciation: ( jîv), [key]
—n., v., jived, jiv•ing,
—adj.

—n.
1. swing music or early jazz.
2. the jargon associated with swing music and early jazz.
3. Slang.deceptive, exaggerated, or meaningless talk: Don't give me any of that jive!

—v.i.
1. to play jive.
2. to dance to jive; jitterbug.
3. Slang.to engage in kidding, teasing, or exaggeration.

—v.t.
Slang.to tease; fool; kid: Stop jiving me!

—adj.
Slang.insincere, pretentious, or deceptive.

-snip-

I'd also add the definition "corny, no good, untrustworthy, cheap, worthless, trash".

This is usually what "jive" means now when I hear it or when I use it. A person is "jive" because he or she is "no good". A "jive" product is one that is cheap, unlikely to work well, and/or breaks apart after a short amount of use. A movie is "jive" because it is corny, is cheaply made and/or badly acted.

These uses of the word "jive" probably come from the "meaningless talk" definition of that word and/or the "insincere, pretentious, or deceptive" definition of that word.

As to how that definition got here from there-wel, if people don't know the meaning of the slang another person is using, then they could believe that person is talking nonsense. And if a person is thought to purposely talk nonsense in order to gain some advantage over another person, then the "deceptive" definition of jive would kick in. And cheap things are usually worthless. So there ya go.

Another Black vernacular phrase that is used instead of saying that a person is talkin jive is that they are "talkin trash". That negative meaning is quite a distance away from the being hip and being cool meaning of "jive talk". But it seems to me that the definition of jive talk (being so hip that you know the latest slang and can appropriately speak it) has long since been retired by Black folks. In other words, a person can be considered jive (meaning corny) if they still use the word "jive" to mean "the latest slang words & phrases".

And very few people I know associate the word "jive" with the musical genre Jazz. But then again, not that many people I know are "in to" Jazz...

which is a shame on a whole 'nother level.

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 12:01 PM

Someone I met online mentioned to me that she "talks jive". She told me she was quoting a saying from the 1980 movie Airplane. Given the quotes that I read from that movie from various stereotypical "jive dudes", I'm glad I haven't seen that movie.

But those exchanges (the online messages and the movie script) got me thinking about how that word "jive" has a lot of different meanings. It also got me thinking of how this word is used in other titles or lyrics of song.

Rather than start a new thread, I'm going to add some thoughts about the word "jive" that I hope won't be jive (in the negative sense of that word). And I also will add a couple more titles of songs that include the word "jive".

It would be interesting if other folks would also add to this thread.

Subject: RE: jump n' jivin'
From: takeo
Date: 30 Nov 98 - 12:48 AM

cab calloway also recorded "jumpin' jive" and this is one of our band's repertoire. if you search this version of song lyric, perhaps we have lyric card of this cool jive talk tune, so tell me. i learned this song from joe jackson's "jumpin jive" album, still one of my top favorites. -takeo

Subject: Lyr Add: JUMP, JIVE AN' WAIL (from Louis Prima)
From: rosebrook
Date: 29 Nov 98 - 04:10 PM

Hi John,

Correctly titles "Jump, Jive An' Wail", this is a song that I fell for over 30 years ago when recorded by Louis Prima. If you like this song, I'd really encourage you to listen to some other songs by Prima, also! (The instrumental breaks on Prima's original version of this song far outshine the re-do, IMO)

Rose

JUMP, JIVE AN' WAIL

Baby, baby it looks like it's gonna hail
Baby, baby it looks like it's gonna hail
You better come inside
Let me teach you how to jive and wail

Chorus:
You gotta jump, jive and then you wail
You gotta jump, jive and then you wail
You gotta jump, jive and then you wail
You gotta jump, jive and then you wail
You gotta jump, jive and then you wail

Papa's in the icebox lookin' for a can of ale
Papa's in the icebox lookin' for a can of ale
Mama's in the backyard learning how to jive and wail

Chorus

A woman is a woman and man ain't nothin' but a male
A woman is a woman and man ain't nothin' but a male
One good thing about him
He knows how jive and wail

Chorus

Jack and Jill went up the hill to get a pail
Jack and Jill went up the hill to get a pail
Jill stayed up she wants to learn how to jive and wail

Chorus

Subject: jump n' jivin'
From: john s.
Date: 28 Nov 98 - 03:13 AM

looking for lyrics to "Jump N' Jivin'" swing song.