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BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm

s6k 27 Jan 05 - 02:10 PM
Clinton Hammond 27 Jan 05 - 02:22 PM
George Papavgeris 27 Jan 05 - 03:10 PM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Jan 05 - 03:20 PM
Bassic 27 Jan 05 - 04:00 PM
Liz the Squeak 27 Jan 05 - 04:26 PM
*Laura* 27 Jan 05 - 05:51 PM
s6k 27 Jan 05 - 06:32 PM
*Laura* 27 Jan 05 - 06:35 PM
Chris Green 27 Jan 05 - 07:05 PM
kendall 27 Jan 05 - 07:48 PM
George Papavgeris 27 Jan 05 - 07:49 PM
Gypsy 27 Jan 05 - 10:41 PM
GUEST,noddy 28 Jan 05 - 03:55 AM
Stu 28 Jan 05 - 05:19 AM
George Papavgeris 28 Jan 05 - 05:26 AM
Liz the Squeak 28 Jan 05 - 08:44 AM
GUEST 28 Jan 05 - 09:26 AM
robomatic 28 Jan 05 - 10:18 AM
GUEST,SJ 28 Jan 05 - 10:50 AM
Pete Jennings 28 Jan 05 - 11:40 AM
robomatic 29 Jan 05 - 06:12 AM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Jan 05 - 05:23 PM
GUEST,SJ 30 Jan 05 - 09:45 AM
Mr Red 30 Jan 05 - 09:51 AM
robomatic 30 Jan 05 - 10:30 AM
GUEST 30 Jan 05 - 10:33 AM
GUEST,Mr Happy 30 Jan 05 - 11:45 AM
GUEST,Mr 30 Jan 05 - 11:48 AM
GUEST,Mr Happy 30 Jan 05 - 11:51 AM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Jan 05 - 01:17 PM

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Subject: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: s6k
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 02:10 PM

yes.

i have not seen it yet, so i will give it a go. then comment on it later.

i thank you


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 02:22 PM

I'm keeping an eye out for a run of "Farenhype 9/11" just to hear the other 'side'


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 03:10 PM

I'm going to watch it too - bad back, can't make it to Maidenhead tonight, so let's see what all the fuss was about. Comments later.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 03:20 PM

Here's the Channel Four page about it with a link to a webchat Michael Moore is having on the Channel Four website after the film.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: Bassic
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 04:00 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 04:26 PM

Watching it now..... still can't make any sense of Bush.....

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: *Laura*
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 05:51 PM

was out tonight so had the video in - can't wait to watch it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: s6k
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 06:32 PM

had to laugh at the ending. he just couldnt get that saying out could he!


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: *Laura*
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 06:35 PM

i'm writing an article at college entitled - "The trouble with the French is they have no word for entrepreneur.... oh dear god"


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: Chris Green
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 07:05 PM

"Our enemies are cunning and resourceful... and so are we.
They never stop thinking of ways to hurt our country... and neither do we."

It's official! Groucho Marx is not dead! He's alive and well and writing speeches for Bush!


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 07:48 PM

This idiot is such an embarrassment...


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 07:49 PM

Well, here's my take:

One has to wade through quite a few histrionics, double takes, shots from films and TV series that (for me) detract and cheapen the film. I'd have preferred it if he had told it straight (as he does, mostly, in the second half of the film). From that point of view, nowhere near as good as "Columbine".

Of course, most of what is shown I knew already, as it had appeared on other related programmes and documentaries in the UK anyway.

Lila's story is powerful indeed.

All that hullaballoo about him showing bodies of injured/dead Americans was OTT. I did not find it distasteful - in the context of the programme -, and there were more scenes of Iraqi injured/dead anyway.

He overplays some cards - like the 24 Bin Laden family members usehered out of the US in the first 48 hours after 9/11. I am happy to accept that Osama is the black sheep and an exception, and given the likelihood of their being victimised, I have no real problem with their hasty departure. Though I would have preferred it if it had also been arranged for them to make statements to the police, just for the record.

The thing that is clear already (from other sources, and in the public record) is the extent to which the American populace was duped, using their pain from 9/11, stoking up their fear, to translate it later into an attack on a country that (we now know) had nothing to do with 9/11, no intent and no capability to harm even its smallest neighbour, let alone a superpower.

And that's what I found scariest - the extent to which the country had the wool pulled over its eyes. And still has, as the recent election proves (don't start on that "minority vote" tack, I know, but the fact is the country re-elected GWB. It's their law, their constitution - they don't like it, they can change it). Britney's comment "I trust the President" is echoed still by millions. Powerful manipulative powers there...

For anyone who has had their eyes closed till now it would be a powerful wake up call. For those who have followed the news as it unravelled, especially from sources other than Fox, little that was new.

Just a bitter aftertaste. There are crimes against humanity perpetrated in our times, and I believe that sooner or later sins come home to roost. Perhaps not in my lifetime (though I hope so), but history in the end can only show the truth; ten, fifty, one hundred years from now, the events of the last 4 years will be taught in schools in their true light.

But that will be too late for Lila's son. And for the others that died needlessly. And for those who will die tomorrow. And the day after.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: Gypsy
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 10:41 PM

There was an awful lot in that movie. However, having looked up most of the salient points, Mr. Moore does put together alot of half truths, and makes pictures that ain't necessary the case, all by implying. There was quite a bit taken out of context.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 03:55 AM

Out of context WOW!
So what business is he and his family and friends in again.....?


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: Stu
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 05:19 AM

I thought it was a powerful statement, although the recent Power of Nightmares series on the BBC explained some of the other forces involved that were not really touched upon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 05:26 AM

Agree, stigweard - it was nowhere near as good as the Power of Nightmares. Now THAT is a documentary to send you to bed trembling...


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 08:44 AM

I have to say that I agreed with Mr Moore's commentary re: the power of fear and the policy of scare the bastards into submission.

Last year, I started to feel quite guilty because I seemed to be the only person who didn't give a damn about 'possible terrorist targets' despite the fact that I work in a pretty bloody obvious one. I found it difficult to understand how so many people could believe what I could see was nothing but rumour-mongering and hype. I still don't know how so many people could be so horribly duped. I don't feel so bad now, knowing that there are a few others who appear able to keep their heads.

Here in the UK, I guess we have a less personal interest. I don't mean to denigrade anything that anyone went through on 11th Sept, but I could not understand the mass hysteria that we saw on our TV screens, from people who were hundreds or thousands of miles away from New York or any other 'target'. It seems that Michael Moore was also looking further back too... so many double standards and hypocrasy. Fear is a powerful emotion, and a terrible thing to have held over you. I chose a long time ago, not to let fear have a hold over me.

And as for the woman outside the White House who told Lila it was all staged... well, I wanted to slap her, I'm surprised Lila didn't.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 09:26 AM

Mindless meaningless twaddle, turn to another channel and send a message to the creator of this shite that he should get a real job.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 10:18 AM

I have avoided seeing this movie because I suspect that GUEST is right, but I would still like GUEST to put on a moniker and please explain why that is his or her opinion.

I've been following the reports from the on the scene reporters for NPR and BBC, and to a lesser extent the columns by Friedman in the NYT.

My attitude to the war is that there is justification for it, but that it has been poorly presented to the public, and poorly strategized. I think PM Blair has been most eloquent and convincing, Bush has lesser skills in this area. The overall tactics of the militaries have been quite good, yet they are now dealing with a violent insurgency using police procedures, so are at a self-inflicted handicap, mainly to preserve civilian lives.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: GUEST,SJ
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 10:50 AM

And what might that 'justification' be for the war on Iraq?


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 11:40 AM

No justification whatsoever. And as for Blair being "eloquent and convincing", well he simply is not. He's a lying, scheming, posturing, two-faced air-head.

Pete


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Jan 05 - 06:12 AM

"Smile" when you say that, Pete! He may be all those things, but as a politician, he's been adroit and you haven't made a case against his eloquence, which I find above the norm even for an English leader.
As we've discovered, what motivates Americans in a leader is somewhat different from other countries.
Guest SJ, I think there was a lot of honest belief in WMDs, prior to the invasion. Saddam was a definite contributor to terrorism in his own country and abroad. He was a nasty piece of work who defied the UN resolutions and kicked out the inspectors so there was considerable uncertainty as to what had gone on in Iraq in their absence. Mind you, I'm not saying that invasion was the ONLY way to handle this, I am real unhappy about the way we're going about it, but if there is a fire in your neighbor's house, and you can't find a key, you might not think to break a small window, you might just knock down the door.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jan 05 - 05:23 PM

I think there was a lot of honest belief in WMDs,prior to the invasion...

I'm sure there was. But there were also a lot of people telling us things they knew perfectly well were untrue. And it seems to me pretty clear that Bush and Blair fall into that category.

The trouble is, a straightforward sober and informative documentary, suich as "Power of Nighmares" would never have had a hope in hell of getting seen by the people who saw Fahrenheit 9/11, all over the States.

But if you click on here you can see "Power of Nighmares", with a print transcript of the programme.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: GUEST,SJ
Date: 30 Jan 05 - 09:45 AM

You see, I part company with those who say that there was genuine and sincere belief in the corridors of power in Washington and London, regarding WMD. I believe that was the political justification given to do what Washington and London wanted to do. I believe the major players in the US and British governments lied to their own citizens and to the world about WMD.

Why do I believe this? Because of the results of the international weapons inspectors, who said if they were given ample time, they could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt whether Iraq had WMD or not, and that the international disarmament of Saddam in the post-Gulf War years had been successful.

GWB & TB chose to make such a hasty rush to judgment because their own intelligence was telling them WMD would not be found. So in order to get away with the invasion and takeover of one of the world's largest oil fields by the world's worst imperial marauders (the Anglo alliance of the US and UK), they had to rush into Iraq before their lies about the WMD could be exposed to the world with certainty.

The world is full of despots, and international outlaw countries like Israel, that aren't complying with UN resolutions. But the Anglo alliance doesn't invade them, overthrow their government, and move into the palace.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Jan 05 - 09:51 AM

you can see a lot of the mechanism.

But the facts can be challenged. I suspect they will hold-up without sweating.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Jan 05 - 10:30 AM

GUEST SJ: I don't say you're wrong, I don't think you've got a proven position however. Funny out of N.Korea, Saudi Arabia, Myanmar/Burma, Rwanda, Sudan, Central African Republic, Pakistan, Zaire, and a few other 'troubled and troublesome' entities you should narrow in on Israel. The reason we don't invade and 'cure' is simple. We're not sure we'd win. Oh, and they do this thing called 'holding elections.' I think you are 'unclear on the concept' of the whole Iraqi affair.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 05 - 10:33 AM

"I don't think you've got a proven position however."

So where are the WMD then?


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: GUEST,Mr Happy
Date: 30 Jan 05 - 11:45 AM

Have a listen here for a good chortle as I did: bushmp.mp3


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: GUEST,Mr
Date: 30 Jan 05 - 11:48 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: GUEST,Mr Happy
Date: 30 Jan 05 - 11:51 AM

Drat!! it didn't work.

Try here: http://www.mrsackroyd.com/

then click on bushmp.mp3


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Subject: RE: BS: Farenheit 9/11 on Tonight C4 UK 9pm
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jan 05 - 01:17 PM

I suppose, robomatic, one thing might be that that out of those countries, Israel is the only one with a really sizeable nuclear arsenal.


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