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Req:English Version of Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'

DigiTrad:
SALLY WHEATLEY


Related threads:
Sally Wheatley (18)
Who Wrote Sally Wheatley (11)
(origins) Origins: Sally Wheatley and Mr. (Charley) Black (10)
Chords Req: Sally Wheatley (12)
Tune Req: Sally Wheatley (4)
Lyr Add: Bonny Sally Wheatley (6)
Lyr Req: Dennis Wheatley - Sally Wheatly paro (14)


In Mudcat MIDIs:
Sally Wheatley


Harald 11 Dec 98 - 10:39 AM
Wolfgang 11 Dec 98 - 10:49 AM
Wolfgang 11 Dec 98 - 10:51 AM
Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin 11 Dec 98 - 07:30 PM
Harald 11 Dec 98 - 07:51 PM
Ritchie 12 Dec 98 - 03:48 AM
skw@worldmusic.de 12 Dec 98 - 08:25 AM
AndreasW 14 Dec 98 - 01:57 AM
Ritchie 14 Dec 98 - 03:16 AM
Harald 14 Dec 98 - 09:17 AM
skw@ 15 Dec 98 - 03:14 AM
Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin 15 Dec 98 - 07:04 PM
AndreasW 16 Dec 98 - 05:18 AM
Pegasus 18 Dec 98 - 12:51 PM
Joe Offer 23 Dec 98 - 04:37 PM
GUEST,ritchie 02 Jul 04 - 12:22 PM
Herga Kitty 02 Jul 04 - 02:26 PM
Folkiedave 02 Jul 04 - 07:20 PM
GUEST,Tom Hamilton 03 Jul 04 - 04:11 AM
GUEST 07 Jul 05 - 02:54 PM
GUEST,Betsy 08 Jul 05 - 01:22 AM
sapper82 08 Jul 05 - 02:49 AM
GUEST,Betsy 08 Jul 05 - 06:04 AM
Dave Hanson 08 Jul 05 - 06:39 AM
GUEST,Betsy 09 Jul 05 - 02:30 AM
KD Withington 29 Mar 07 - 01:55 PM
Malcolm Douglas 29 Mar 07 - 07:16 PM
GUEST,Ignotus 19 Jul 13 - 10:00 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 19 Jul 13 - 11:29 AM
Edthefolkie 20 Jul 13 - 10:02 AM
OlgaJ 20 Jul 13 - 12:08 PM
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Subject: Wanted: Irish Song
From: Harald
Date: 11 Dec 98 - 10:39 AM

I'm looking for the original English version of the Irish Song "Sally Wheatley". In the database I only found a version from a native-speaker near Newcastle :-)) Would be happy to get the words - Thanx! HARALD


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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Dec 98 - 10:49 AM

Harald, type Wheatley in the upper right search box and you have it.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Dec 98 - 10:51 AM

sorry, Harald, I should have read all of your post.
Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song
From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 11 Dec 98 - 07:30 PM

Are you sure of an Irish original? The song as sung by Bob Fox and Stu Luckley seems to be firmly set on Tyneside, and nothing wrong with that as a provenance.

Bobby Bob.


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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song
From: Harald
Date: 11 Dec 98 - 07:51 PM

Bobby, you maybe right. I have heard that song years ago in Ireland from a singer playing a guitar in an open key. And I know, that the Dubliners had recorded a version of Sally Wheatley. But I can't find the record and I can't find the words. So it maybe not an Irish song. Whatever - this ballad is wonderful and I would be thankful for the words :-))


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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song
From: Ritchie
Date: 12 Dec 98 - 03:48 AM

Harald,

I've got the words on the sleeve of 'Nowt so good 'll pass' by Bob Fox & Stu Luckley.

I'll post them tomorrow , unless someone else does.. rest assured they are on the way...

love & happiness

Ritchie


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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song
From: skw@worldmusic.de
Date: 12 Dec 98 - 08:25 AM

Harald, the Dubliners version is on their 25th anniversary double album - what was it called now? 'Celebration', I think. Sean Cannon sings it. If you still want them, I'll bring the words in next week. Or maybe you could send me an eMail (see above). - Susanne


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Subject: DTADD: Sally Wheatley
From: AndreasW
Date: 14 Dec 98 - 01:57 AM

Here is the lyrics to Sally Wheatley

as sung by The Dubliners on the album 25 Years Celebration

HTH, Andreas

Sally Wheatley

Now I'm most depressed and sad
Where I once was blithe and glad
I could trip about the town both trim and neatly
I was happy night and morn
But from all such joys and (shorn ???)
Since I fell so deep in love with Sally Wheatley

Chorus [after each verse, twice after last verse, last time repeat last line]
And it's oh dear me
What am I gonna dee
Sally stole away my heart completely
And I'll never get it back
For she gans [= goes] with Mister Black
And they say he's goin' to marry Sally Wheatley

Now I never saw such a lass
And I know she likes her glass
She could toss a part of whiskey over neatley
Now, it's right to take a drop
When you know just when to stop
That was just the very way with Sally Wheatley

How I felt I didn't know
The first time I Sally saw
In a threesome reel she hopped about so neatly
Well I might have had a chance
If I'd asked her up to dance
But I was over shy to speak to Sally Wheatley

Now he must have made it right
When he took her home that night
Cause after work dressed up he goes to see her nightly
There's great danger in delay
Oh, I wouldn't be sad today
If I had my heart to break for Sally Wheatley


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Subject: Lyr Add: SALLY WHEATLEY (Joe Wilson, A. Glasgow)
From: Ritchie
Date: 14 Dec 98 - 03:16 AM

And here it is from the Bob Fox & Stu Luckley LP
"Nowt s'gud'll pass"

SALLY WHEATLEY
(words Joe Wilson ... music A. Glasgow)

Now I'm most depressed and sad,
When I once was blithe and glad,
I could trip around the town both trim and neatly.
I was happy night and morn,
But of all such joys I'm shorn,
Since I fell so deep in love with Sally Wheatley.

Chorus;
And Oh dear me, what am I ganna de,
Sally's taken me heart away completely,
And I'll never get it back ,
'Cos she gans with Mr Black,
And they say he's gan te marry Sally Wheatley.

Well I've never seen such a lass,
And I know she liked her glass,
She could toss a pot of whisky over sweetly.
Well its right to take a drop,
If you know just when to stop,
That was just the very way with Sally Wheatley.

Chorus;

How I felt I diven't knaw,
The first time I Sally saw,
In a threesome reel she hopped about se leetly.
And I might have had a chance,
If I'd asked her up to dance,
But I was ower shy to speak to Sally Wheatley.

Chorus;

So, as often is the case,
You'll find others in your place,
If ye diven't shove ahead and fettle reetly.
For I'd scarcely turned me back,
Aye, and there was Mr Black,
He was jigging round the room with Sally Wheatley.

Chorus;

Well, he must have made it right,
When he set her home that night,
'Cos after work, dressed up, he goes to see her neetley.
Well there's great danger in delay,
Or I wouldn't be sad today,
If I had a heart I'd break it for Sally Wheatley.

Chorus;

Love & happiness

Ritchie


Click to play


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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song
From: Harald
Date: 14 Dec 98 - 09:17 AM

Oh, thank you so much - all of you!!! Merry X-mas and a happy new year!!!


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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song
From: skw@
Date: 15 Dec 98 - 03:14 AM

I've checked the Dubliners version:
But from all such joys and (shorn ???) should be
But from all such joys I'm shorn.
Susanne


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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song
From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 15 Dec 98 - 07:04 PM

I'm pleased to see Alex Glasgow's name associated with the song.

Alex has written some fine songs in his time, and I remember seeing some of his plays. I'm sorry, that's back in the 60s. Back then, he used to get time on the television with his generally left-wing songs. It doesn't particularly show in Sally Wheatley, but he was/is very much a balladeer and chronicler of the working North East of England.

Bobby Bob.


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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song
From: AndreasW
Date: 16 Dec 98 - 05:18 AM

Susanne,

I already guessed that about the "I'm shorn" part of the lyrics after reading the second version of the song in this thread.
But I wanted to make sure before posting the correction and so I checked it yesterday afternoon.
Today I wanted to post the correction but I see you were faster ...
Andreas


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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song
From: Pegasus
Date: 18 Dec 98 - 12:51 PM

Sorry there is no earlier Irish Original to this, It was definitely written by Joe Wilson, a prolific song writer and music hall performer In Newcastle/tyne. The song is published in the "Complete Joe Wilson" in about 1890. and is also on the album "Joe Lives" with a tune by Alex Glasgow. I have a copy (almost in tatters but the words agree with the dubliners version given) The use of "Gan" for going is a typical geordie usage

(geordie = native of Newcastle/Tyne).


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Subject: RE: Tune ADD Sally Wheatley
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Dec 98 - 04:37 PM

Tune posted in this thread (click)


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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'
From: GUEST,ritchie
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 12:22 PM

amazing what you find on the internet ...have nt been on Mudcat for a while but when i was 'browsing' this thread came up ...nice one!

Harald, if you are still around, check out George welch's version.

regards

ritchie the wanderer.


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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 02:26 PM

Except that George Welch's version is about Dennis Wheatley, not Sally!

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 07:20 PM

George's version on Dennis Wheatley is wonderful. It is here:

Detail.CFM?messages__Message_ID=575549


Best regards,

folkiedave


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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'
From: GUEST,Tom Hamilton
Date: 03 Jul 04 - 04:11 AM

It was written by a man called Joe Wilson who came the North east of England.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 02:54 PM

the song Sally Wheatley is a good auld tyneside song yer daft bugger .


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 01:22 AM

Stick to the message by Pegasus . He's spot on - its Geordie and another example of an Irish song which isn't.
I might add another wonderful rendition apart from Bob and Stu was Tony Wilson


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'
From: sapper82
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:49 AM

You can say that again Betsy, no wonder us English don't have many good folk songs, the bloody Irish keep pinching them!
One of my favourite pasatimes at markets is to browse through cheap CDs of the "Favourite Irish Pub Songs" variety to see how many of the "Irish Pub Songs" are English. I've even found Home Lads, Home on one!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 06:04 AM

Sapper , we should start a thread - Irish songs that are NOT - list all of Ewan McColls , John Connoly and Bill Meek , Eric Bogle - even Johnny Cash with his 40 Shades of Green - its gone past a joke as the younger Irish generation think e.g. I'm an Englishman trying to sing Irish songs - they simply don't know any different but are the most possessive - they actually BELIEVE these songs are Irish and that a Non - Irish person has got it wrong and why don't I find some British songs to sing.
Ah y'can lead a horse to water ...............


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 06:39 AM

I first heard ' Sally Wheatley ' by the Dubliners and could tell straight away it was a Geordie song, even with Sean Cannons Irish accent he sings, ' what am I ganna dee '

eric


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 02:30 AM

btw Eric I knew Sean well in the old days - even before he could play guitar - when he was doing gigs unaccompanied, and, you're dead right he made no secret of the song being Geordie . He ( and Luke Kelly ,Christy Moore etc before him ) loved the songs which were flying round the British folk scene and it didn't matter from where the songs came from - but they , and many other Irish performers all knew who, wrote what, and in general they remain blameless, because they properly attributed them to their writers and composers when performing the same.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'
From: KD Withington
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 01:55 PM

I'm Not sure what If I can add anything of value to this discussion Wolfgang but is seems to me that oral tradition may have had something to do with this song. I sing this song on the guitar regularly and am known for it. However, my version was a mix of two versions of this song I heard many years ago. I took two separate versions about 20 years ago from singers from the northeast and merged them. Not only that but I have noticed that over time that some of the lyrics I use have undergone some subtle changes too though it does correspond more readily with Ritchies version.
I have always assumed that Sally Wheately was a northeastern song and the words impy such. It interesting to note who is said to have written the song but like all good eternal folk songs I'm sure, like my version, oral tradition has some input.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 07:16 PM

Not until quite recently; the song seems to have been long forgotten until Alex Glasgow revived it. He wrote a new tune for it because, presumably, he didn't know what the original one was. Nowadays we do know; see the other threads on the same subject (links at the top of this page) where better information is to be found than in this old, forgotten discussion.

Wilson is not 'said to have written it'; there is no doubt whatsoever of that. Twenty years ago, of course, quite a lot of people were singing the song (including, once in a while, me; and not in the NE); but to Glasgow's tune, not the one its author intended. We had all learned it off records or from each other, so we didn't all know who the author was. Any 'oral tradition' involved is recent, and postdates Glasgow's involvement.


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Subject: RE: Req:English Version of Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'
From: GUEST,Ignotus
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 10:00 AM

Does anyone have the tin whistle sheet music for this wonderful tune?


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Subject: RE: Req:English Version of Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 11:29 AM

Ignotus - you can find the abc for the tune in the link posted above: Tune Req: Sally Wheatley. You can paste that abc code (from X:1 to the end w:...) in the abc converter at mandolintab.net abc converter (paste into the big white box) and it will convert it to standard sheet music and if you select Whistle from the Tablature drop-down it will add whistle-tab as well. Press Submit to do the conversion; it will show it on screen and you can download a pdf of it and a midi file it you want.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Req:English Version of Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 10:02 AM

As mentioned several times in these august pages, FARNE (Folk Archive Resource North East) has Joe Wilson's oeuvre online. I might add that they beat the EFDSS to this sort of thing by several years, thanks partly to a grant from Gateshead Council.

I can't seem to post links at the moment, but just Google "Farne Archive" and up will come the home page. The canny lads & lasses have scanned Joe's little song books plus the covers (which are hilarious) and somewhere there's a picture of Joe performing "Geordie Haud the Bairn" at the music hall.

Have a look when you have a spare few days - because you will not escape from FARNE easily (must be the tide).


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Subject: RE: Req:English Version of Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley'
From: OlgaJ
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 12:08 PM

Think half the problem is the number of multi-volume collections of songs, mainly 'Soodlum's' and 'Folk Songs popular in Ireland'. They don't actually claim that the songs are Irish but most people buying them assume they are, and if an Irish band covers an English/Scottish song the Irish claim it. I was even in a session in Kerry where someone swore blind that Dougie McLean's (spelling might be wrong) Caledonia was Irish ! Would have thought the name would give it away.


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