Subject: Wanted: Irish Song From: Harald Date: 11 Dec 98 - 10:39 AM I'm looking for the original English version of the Irish Song "Sally Wheatley". In the database I only found a version from a native-speaker near Newcastle :-)) Would be happy to get the words - Thanx! HARALD |
Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song From: Wolfgang Date: 11 Dec 98 - 10:49 AM Harald, type Wheatley in the upper right search box and you have it. Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song From: Wolfgang Date: 11 Dec 98 - 10:51 AM sorry, Harald, I should have read all of your post. Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin Date: 11 Dec 98 - 07:30 PM Are you sure of an Irish original? The song as sung by Bob Fox and Stu Luckley seems to be firmly set on Tyneside, and nothing wrong with that as a provenance. Bobby Bob. |
Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song From: Harald Date: 11 Dec 98 - 07:51 PM Bobby, you maybe right. I have heard that song years ago in Ireland from a singer playing a guitar in an open key. And I know, that the Dubliners had recorded a version of Sally Wheatley. But I can't find the record and I can't find the words. So it maybe not an Irish song. Whatever - this ballad is wonderful and I would be thankful for the words :-)) |
Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song From: Ritchie Date: 12 Dec 98 - 03:48 AM Harald, I've got the words on the sleeve of 'Nowt so good 'll pass' by Bob Fox & Stu Luckley. I'll post them tomorrow , unless someone else does.. rest assured they are on the way... love & happiness Ritchie |
Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song From: skw@worldmusic.de Date: 12 Dec 98 - 08:25 AM Harald, the Dubliners version is on their 25th anniversary double album - what was it called now? 'Celebration', I think. Sean Cannon sings it. If you still want them, I'll bring the words in next week. Or maybe you could send me an eMail (see above). - Susanne |
Subject: DTADD: Sally Wheatley From: AndreasW Date: 14 Dec 98 - 01:57 AM Here is the lyrics to Sally Wheatley as sung by The Dubliners on the album 25 Years Celebration HTH, Andreas Sally Wheatley Now I'm most depressed and sad Where I once was blithe and glad I could trip about the town both trim and neatly I was happy night and morn But from all such joys and (shorn ???) Since I fell so deep in love with Sally Wheatley Chorus [after each verse, twice after last verse, last time repeat last line] And it's oh dear me What am I gonna dee Sally stole away my heart completely And I'll never get it back For she gans [= goes] with Mister Black And they say he's goin' to marry Sally Wheatley Now I never saw such a lass And I know she likes her glass She could toss a part of whiskey over neatley Now, it's right to take a drop When you know just when to stop That was just the very way with Sally Wheatley How I felt I didn't know The first time I Sally saw In a threesome reel she hopped about so neatly Well I might have had a chance If I'd asked her up to dance But I was over shy to speak to Sally Wheatley Now he must have made it right When he took her home that night Cause after work dressed up he goes to see her nightly There's great danger in delay Oh, I wouldn't be sad today If I had my heart to break for Sally Wheatley |
Subject: Lyr Add: SALLY WHEATLEY (Joe Wilson, A. Glasgow) From: Ritchie Date: 14 Dec 98 - 03:16 AM And here it is from the Bob Fox & Stu Luckley LP "Nowt s'gud'll pass"
SALLY WHEATLEY
Now I'm most depressed and sad,
Chorus;
Well I've never seen such a lass, Chorus;
How I felt I diven't knaw, Chorus;
So, as often is the case, Chorus;
Well, he must have made it right, Chorus; Love & happiness
Ritchie Click to play
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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song From: Harald Date: 14 Dec 98 - 09:17 AM Oh, thank you so much - all of you!!! Merry X-mas and a happy new year!!! |
Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song From: skw@ Date: 15 Dec 98 - 03:14 AM I've checked the Dubliners version: But from all such joys and (shorn ???) should be But from all such joys I'm shorn. Susanne |
Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin Date: 15 Dec 98 - 07:04 PM I'm pleased to see Alex Glasgow's name associated with the song. Alex has written some fine songs in his time, and I remember seeing some of his plays. I'm sorry, that's back in the 60s. Back then, he used to get time on the television with his generally left-wing songs. It doesn't particularly show in Sally Wheatley, but he was/is very much a balladeer and chronicler of the working North East of England. Bobby Bob. |
Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song From: AndreasW Date: 16 Dec 98 - 05:18 AM Susanne, I already guessed that about the "I'm shorn" part of the lyrics after reading the second version of the song in this thread. But I wanted to make sure before posting the correction and so I checked it yesterday afternoon. Today I wanted to post the correction but I see you were faster ... Andreas
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Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song From: Pegasus Date: 18 Dec 98 - 12:51 PM Sorry there is no earlier Irish Original to this, It was definitely written by Joe Wilson, a prolific song writer and music hall performer In Newcastle/tyne. The song is published in the "Complete Joe Wilson" in about 1890. and is also on the album "Joe Lives" with a tune by Alex Glasgow. I have a copy (almost in tatters but the words agree with the dubliners version given) The use of "Gan" for going is a typical geordie usage (geordie = native of Newcastle/Tyne). |
Subject: RE: Tune ADD Sally Wheatley From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Dec 98 - 04:37 PM Tune posted in this thread (click) |
Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: GUEST,ritchie Date: 02 Jul 04 - 12:22 PM amazing what you find on the internet ...have nt been on Mudcat for a while but when i was 'browsing' this thread came up ...nice one! Harald, if you are still around, check out George welch's version. regards ritchie the wanderer. |
Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: Herga Kitty Date: 02 Jul 04 - 02:26 PM Except that George Welch's version is about Dennis Wheatley, not Sally! Kitty |
Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: Folkiedave Date: 02 Jul 04 - 07:20 PM George's version on Dennis Wheatley is wonderful. It is here: Detail.CFM?messages__Message_ID=575549 Best regards, folkiedave |
Subject: RE: Wanted: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: GUEST,Tom Hamilton Date: 03 Jul 04 - 04:11 AM It was written by a man called Joe Wilson who came the North east of England. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: GUEST Date: 07 Jul 05 - 02:54 PM the song Sally Wheatley is a good auld tyneside song yer daft bugger . |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: GUEST,Betsy Date: 08 Jul 05 - 01:22 AM Stick to the message by Pegasus . He's spot on - its Geordie and another example of an Irish song which isn't. I might add another wonderful rendition apart from Bob and Stu was Tony Wilson |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: sapper82 Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:49 AM You can say that again Betsy, no wonder us English don't have many good folk songs, the bloody Irish keep pinching them! One of my favourite pasatimes at markets is to browse through cheap CDs of the "Favourite Irish Pub Songs" variety to see how many of the "Irish Pub Songs" are English. I've even found Home Lads, Home on one! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: GUEST,Betsy Date: 08 Jul 05 - 06:04 AM Sapper , we should start a thread - Irish songs that are NOT - list all of Ewan McColls , John Connoly and Bill Meek , Eric Bogle - even Johnny Cash with his 40 Shades of Green - its gone past a joke as the younger Irish generation think e.g. I'm an Englishman trying to sing Irish songs - they simply don't know any different but are the most possessive - they actually BELIEVE these songs are Irish and that a Non - Irish person has got it wrong and why don't I find some British songs to sing. Ah y'can lead a horse to water ............... |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: Dave Hanson Date: 08 Jul 05 - 06:39 AM I first heard ' Sally Wheatley ' by the Dubliners and could tell straight away it was a Geordie song, even with Sean Cannons Irish accent he sings, ' what am I ganna dee ' eric |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: GUEST,Betsy Date: 09 Jul 05 - 02:30 AM btw Eric I knew Sean well in the old days - even before he could play guitar - when he was doing gigs unaccompanied, and, you're dead right he made no secret of the song being Geordie . He ( and Luke Kelly ,Christy Moore etc before him ) loved the songs which were flying round the British folk scene and it didn't matter from where the songs came from - but they , and many other Irish performers all knew who, wrote what, and in general they remain blameless, because they properly attributed them to their writers and composers when performing the same. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: KD Withington Date: 29 Mar 07 - 01:55 PM I'm Not sure what If I can add anything of value to this discussion Wolfgang but is seems to me that oral tradition may have had something to do with this song. I sing this song on the guitar regularly and am known for it. However, my version was a mix of two versions of this song I heard many years ago. I took two separate versions about 20 years ago from singers from the northeast and merged them. Not only that but I have noticed that over time that some of the lyrics I use have undergone some subtle changes too though it does correspond more readily with Ritchies version. I have always assumed that Sally Wheately was a northeastern song and the words impy such. It interesting to note who is said to have written the song but like all good eternal folk songs I'm sure, like my version, oral tradition has some input. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 29 Mar 07 - 07:16 PM Not until quite recently; the song seems to have been long forgotten until Alex Glasgow revived it. He wrote a new tune for it because, presumably, he didn't know what the original one was. Nowadays we do know; see the other threads on the same subject (links at the top of this page) where better information is to be found than in this old, forgotten discussion. Wilson is not 'said to have written it'; there is no doubt whatsoever of that. Twenty years ago, of course, quite a lot of people were singing the song (including, once in a while, me; and not in the NE); but to Glasgow's tune, not the one its author intended. We had all learned it off records or from each other, so we didn't all know who the author was. Any 'oral tradition' involved is recent, and postdates Glasgow's involvement. |
Subject: RE: Req:English Version of Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: GUEST,Ignotus Date: 19 Jul 13 - 10:00 AM Does anyone have the tin whistle sheet music for this wonderful tune? |
Subject: RE: Req:English Version of Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: Mick Pearce (MCP) Date: 19 Jul 13 - 11:29 AM Ignotus - you can find the abc for the tune in the link posted above: Tune Req: Sally Wheatley. You can paste that abc code (from X:1 to the end w:...) in the abc converter at mandolintab.net abc converter (paste into the big white box) and it will convert it to standard sheet music and if you select Whistle from the Tablature drop-down it will add whistle-tab as well. Press Submit to do the conversion; it will show it on screen and you can download a pdf of it and a midi file it you want. Mick |
Subject: RE: Req:English Version of Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: Edthefolkie Date: 20 Jul 13 - 10:02 AM As mentioned several times in these august pages, FARNE (Folk Archive Resource North East) has Joe Wilson's oeuvre online. I might add that they beat the EFDSS to this sort of thing by several years, thanks partly to a grant from Gateshead Council. I can't seem to post links at the moment, but just Google "Farne Archive" and up will come the home page. The canny lads & lasses have scanned Joe's little song books plus the covers (which are hilarious) and somewhere there's a picture of Joe performing "Geordie Haud the Bairn" at the music hall. Have a look when you have a spare few days - because you will not escape from FARNE easily (must be the tide). |
Subject: RE: Req:English Version of Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: OlgaJ Date: 20 Jul 13 - 12:08 PM Think half the problem is the number of multi-volume collections of songs, mainly 'Soodlum's' and 'Folk Songs popular in Ireland'. They don't actually claim that the songs are Irish but most people buying them assume they are, and if an Irish band covers an English/Scottish song the Irish claim it. I was even in a session in Kerry where someone swore blind that Dougie McLean's (spelling might be wrong) Caledonia was Irish ! Would have thought the name would give it away. |
Subject: RE: Req:English Version of Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: GUEST,Black Jake Two Fingers Once of Norwich Date: 13 Mar 19 - 05:48 PM Look. I'm headin' for 82 years old and I couldn't agree more with the above comments. I used to knock about in the North-East of England in Durham for quite a while, and knew Jack Elliot of Birtley Colliery quite well, for example. There's no way that 'Sally Wheatley' is an Irish song. Nivvor in a thousand years, marrers. The song is without a doubt Joe Wilson's and he was well known in Tyneside when me Mam was a little girl. The Irish are forever claiming authorship of every folk-song under the song. Why, I even recall someone claiming Leadbelly's 'Goodnight Irene' to be an Irish song, and me old marrer Tom McConvlle the Geordie folk musician (not the Irish terrorist)to be from Newcastle County Wexford! I've nothing against the Irish, mind you. My father was a Dublin man, and there's always been an interchange of music between Tyneside and Ireland. Black Jake. |
Subject: RE: Req:English Version of Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 15 Mar 19 - 04:31 PM I'm from South Shields, but when I lived & made a living in West Cork, playing mainly Irish music in bars, 20 years ago, the few locals among the tourists would pick up on my accent & ask politely.... 'What county would ye be from, boy?' The only answer I ever gave was 'County Durham, sir' and carried on playing- this caused a certain amount of headshaking & puzzlement. |
Subject: RE: Req:English Version of Irish Song 'Sally Wheatley' From: beachcomber Date: 16 Mar 19 - 09:09 AM Probably the best explanation of why so many of the older songs , written by English people, were taken on by Irish singers is, imitation. The Music Hall performers in the Irish cities, and touring companies in the town halls, brought British acts to Ireland, singing THEIR popular British songs. The fact of the British Army being stationed here, in Barracks spread Nationwide and especially in Dublin, up to the 1920s, is another. These people came from all over Great Britain and whether as Theatre acts or as soldiers, singing for their own entertainment on their nights out in the pubs, would have inspired local people to imitate them and copy their songs , with, perhaps sometimes, changes, to render them more palatable to Irish tastes. Composition of original songs in their style would, inevitably, have followed. This is a trait that we Irish have perfected. Over the years, we have had to learn to adopt and adapt, in order to survive, so don't be surprised that Christy Moore or Luke Kelly or whoever, did just that when performing in British Folk Clubs. Because we were denied the performance of our own cultural styles, in public, for generations , may also have had something to do with the necessity to make those adjustments. Just saying.. |
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