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Crusades, Holy War, Jihad:Trad. Ballad?

GUEST,larepole 01 Feb 05 - 08:17 PM
John C. 02 Feb 05 - 03:02 PM
mg 02 Feb 05 - 03:17 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Feb 05 - 03:30 PM
GUEST,folkiefrank 02 Feb 05 - 07:11 PM
Wolfgang 03 Feb 05 - 11:09 AM
GUEST,Laurent 03 Feb 05 - 12:55 PM
Amos 01 Nov 09 - 06:05 PM
Jack Campin 02 Nov 09 - 01:00 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Nov 09 - 04:02 PM
Monique 02 Nov 09 - 06:11 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Nov 09 - 06:33 PM
agingcynic 03 Nov 09 - 11:06 AM
oldhippie 03 Nov 09 - 07:42 PM
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Subject: Crusades, Holy War, Jihad:Trad. Ballad?
From: GUEST,larepole
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 08:17 PM


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Subject: RE: Crusades, Holy War, Jihad:Trad. Ballad?
From: John C.
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:02 PM

What? Umm - yes and no - possibly?


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Subject: RE: Crusades, Holy War, Jihad:Trad. Ballad?
From: mg
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:17 PM

Isn't Fairest Lord Jesus from the Children's Crusade? Pretty words. Who wrote them? mg


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Subject: RE: Crusades, Holy War, Jihad:Trad. Ballad?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:30 PM

Fairest Lord Jesus written as Schönster Herr Jesu by German Jesuits, published in 1677; English version by Seiss, 1973. Music a Silesian folk song, pub. 1842, arr. Willis, 1850.
Cyberhymnal: Fair Lord Jesus

Little is known of the church music of the time. Joe Offer has commented on a couple, but I have forgotton the names and threads.


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Subject: RE: Crusades, Holy War, Jihad:Trad. Ballad?
From: GUEST,folkiefrank
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 07:11 PM

The Lampton Worm?


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Subject: RE: Crusades, Holy War, Jihad:Trad. Ballad?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 11:09 AM

Als Kaiser Rotbart lobesam

written much later, but it's about one crusade. Often only regarded as a poem I have heard it sung.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Crusades, Holy War, Jihad:Trad. Ballad?
From: GUEST,Laurent
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 12:55 PM

This one in old French (13th century). You can find this song on many CDs.

Thibaud de Champagne
Seigneurs, sachiez: qui or ne s'en ira... (chanson de croisade)

Seigneurs, sachiez: qui or ne s'en ira
En cette terre où Dieu fut mort et vif
Et qui la croix d'Outremer ne prendra,
A grand peine ira en Paradis.
Qui a en soit pitié ou souvenance
Au haut Seigneur doit quérir sa vengeance
Et délivrer sa terre et son pays.

Tous les mauvais demeureront deça,
Qui n'aiment Dieu, bien ni honneur ni prix;
Et chacun dit: "Ma femme, que fera?
Ne laisserai à nul prix mes amis."
Ceux-ci ont chu en trop folle attendance,
Qu'il n'est ami fors Celui, sans doutance

Or s'en iront ces vaillants bacheliers
Qui aiment Dieu et l'honneur de ce monde,
Et les morveux, les cendreux resteront;
Aveugle est, de ce je ne doute mie,
Qui secours ne fait à Dieu dans sa vie
Et pour si peu perd la gloire du monde.

Dieu se laissa pour nous en croix peiner
Et nous dira un jour où tous viendront:
"Vous qui ma croix m'aidâtes à porter,
Vous en irez là où mes anges sont;
Là me verrez et ma mère Marie
Et vous par qui je n'eus onques aide
Descendrez tous en Enfer le profond."

Chacun cuide demeurer tout joyeux
Et que jamais ne doive mal avoir;
Ainsi les tiennent ennemi et péché
Car ils n'ont sens, hardiesse ni pouvoir.
Beau sire Dieu, ôtez leur tell' pensée
Et puis nous mettez en votre contrée
Si saintement que nous vous puissions voir!

Douce dame, reine couronnée,
Priez pour nous, Vierge bienheureuse!
Et après nul mal ne nous peut échoir.


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Subject: RE: Crusades, Holy War, Jihad:Trad. Ballad?
From: Amos
Date: 01 Nov 09 - 06:05 PM

C'est tellemtn le mauvais forum, mon apachre, et le mauvais avis pour poster aussi. Va chercher un gros bande en autre environs.


A


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Subject: RE: Crusades, Holy War, Jihad:Trad. Ballad?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Nov 09 - 01:00 PM

Walther von der Wogelweide's "Nu alrest lebe ich mir werde" was written as a rallying call for the Fourth Crusade.

It worked. Very well indeed.

Walther appears to have had regrets when he came to see what he'd done. A bit late though.


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Subject: RE: Crusades, Holy War, Jihad:Trad. Ballad?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Nov 09 - 04:02 PM

Interesting to see the way that French has changed a lot less since the 13th century than English has. That's a lot easier to follow than Chaucer is.


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Subject: RE: Crusades, Holy War, Jihad:Trad. Ballad?
From: Monique
Date: 02 Nov 09 - 06:11 PM

Well, look at the text the way it was written then. It's far less clear. You can find the text with a score here

Signor, sachiez qui or ne s'en ira;
En celé terre, où Diex fu mors et vis,
Et qui la crois d'outremer ne prendra,
A peine mais ira en paradis.
Qui a en soi pitié et remembrance
Au haut Seignor, doit querre sa vengeance
Et délivrer sa terre et son païs.

Tout li mauvais demorront par deçà,
Qui n'aiment Dieu, bien, ne honor, ne pris.
Et chascuns dis : — Ma feme que fera?
Je n' la lairoie à nul fuer mes amis.
Cil sont assis en trop foie atendance;
Qu'il n'est amis, fors que cil sans doutance
Qui pour nos fut en la vraie crois mis.

Or s'en iront cil vaillant bacheler ,
Qui aiment Diex etl'onour de cestmond,
Qui sagement veulent à Diex aler ;
Et li morveus , li cendreus demourront.
Avugles est, de ce ne dout' je mie,
Qui un secours ne fait Diex en sa vie,
Et pour si poc pert la gloire del mond.

Diex se laissa por nos en croix péner
Et nous dira, aujouroùtuit venront :
—Vos, qui ma croix m'aidâtes à porter,


Vos en irez là où mes anges sont :
Là me verrez et ma mère Marie.
Et vos, par qui je n'oi onques aïe r
Descendez tuit en enfer le parfond.

Chascuns cuide demourer tôt haitiés ,
Et que jamais ne doive mal avoir :
Ainsi les tient ennemis et péchiez ;
Que ils n'ont sens, hordement ne pooir.
Biau sire Diex, ostez nos tel pensée ,
Et nos metez en la vostre contrée
Si saintement, que vos puissons véoir !

Douce dame, roine coronée,
Proiez pour nos, Vierge bien eurée !
Et puis après ne nos puet meschéoir.


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Subject: RE: Crusades, Holy War, Jihad:Trad. Ballad?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Nov 09 - 06:33 PM

There was probably some early version of "Here we go, here we go, here we go..."


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Subject: RE: Crusades, Holy War, Jihad:Trad. Ballad?
From: agingcynic
Date: 03 Nov 09 - 11:06 AM

i have a newer song on the subject of jihad, holy wars, etc

it's called 'virgins in heaven'

you can find it on my music page if you want to have a listen

it's not as pretty as 'FLJ' but i'm trying


http://daveshiflett.com


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Subject: ADD: What You Preach (Sarah Crews)
From: oldhippie
Date: 03 Nov 09 - 07:42 PM

Here's another newer one.


WHAT YOU PREACH
[ folk -- written by Sarah Crews; Prescott, AZ ]

   We are living in dangerous days
   And I am frightened by what you say
   We are bound to guard our borders
   Sacrifice our soldiers

   What kind of world is this
   Where hatred can persist?
   It chills right to the core
   This talk of holy war

   Really love your brother
   Love your neighbor like that too
   And only do to others
   What you would want them to do to you

   What they did in New York City
   Is the darkest kind of crime
   What can we tell our children
   If we respond in kind?

   We only teach them violence
   It is how the West was won
   Destroy the man who is different
   Than your own begotten son

   And really love your sister
   Love your neighbor like that too
   And only do to others
   What you would want them to do to you
   What you would want them to do to you


   We are living in dangerous days
   And I am frightened by what you say
   It chills right to the core
   This talk of holy war



Copyright © 2001 by Sarah Crews ASCAP
Copyright © by Freedom Tracks Music ASCAP


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