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BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter

Richard Bridge 28 Mar 06 - 02:45 AM
Big Al Whittle 27 Mar 06 - 12:43 PM
Wolfgang 27 Mar 06 - 11:36 AM
Big Al Whittle 27 Mar 06 - 10:32 AM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 27 Mar 06 - 05:56 AM
Manitas_at_home 26 Mar 06 - 12:58 PM
Flash Company 26 Mar 06 - 10:02 AM
GUEST 25 Mar 06 - 06:50 PM
Richard Bridge 25 Mar 06 - 03:00 PM
GUEST,thurg 25 Mar 06 - 11:43 AM
Richard Bridge 25 Mar 06 - 04:27 AM
Richard Bridge 25 Mar 06 - 04:18 AM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 25 Mar 06 - 04:08 AM
Richard Bridge 25 Mar 06 - 03:50 AM
Manitas_at_home 25 Mar 06 - 03:06 AM
melodeonboy 24 Mar 06 - 12:47 PM
jacqui.c 24 Mar 06 - 12:26 PM
Wolfgang 24 Mar 06 - 12:09 PM
Wolfgang 24 Mar 06 - 11:50 AM
Mr Red 24 Mar 06 - 09:56 AM
Wolfgang 24 Mar 06 - 08:01 AM
robomatic 24 Feb 06 - 02:30 PM
Richard Bridge 24 Feb 06 - 01:02 PM
McGrath of Harlow 24 Feb 06 - 12:39 PM
GUEST 24 Feb 06 - 11:23 AM
Wolfgang 24 Feb 06 - 11:08 AM
Wolfgang 08 Mar 05 - 06:44 AM
Boab 08 Mar 05 - 01:02 AM
jacqui.c 07 Mar 05 - 11:35 PM
jacqui.c 07 Mar 05 - 11:35 PM
Mr Red 07 Mar 05 - 07:33 PM
Ian 07 Mar 05 - 04:06 AM
GUEST 06 Mar 05 - 01:17 PM
robomatic 05 Mar 05 - 07:37 PM
Mr Red 05 Mar 05 - 09:35 AM
Richard Bridge 05 Mar 05 - 04:40 AM
GUEST 04 Mar 05 - 10:58 PM
GUEST,Simo 04 Mar 05 - 10:44 PM
Strollin' Johnny 23 Feb 05 - 08:18 AM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Feb 05 - 07:22 PM
akenaton 22 Feb 05 - 07:21 PM
Mr Red 22 Feb 05 - 06:23 PM
GUEST,POET 22 Feb 05 - 05:54 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Feb 05 - 05:51 PM
George Papavgeris 22 Feb 05 - 02:52 PM
Wolfgang 22 Feb 05 - 02:47 PM
Richard Bridge 22 Feb 05 - 02:29 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Feb 05 - 02:06 PM
GUEST,Mk 22 Feb 05 - 01:46 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Feb 05 - 01:46 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 02:45 AM

I just love the fact that Ken has called the US ambassador to England a "cheap crook" for refusing to pay the congestion charge that every other road user in central London (even the UK government) pays.

Ken's rationale is that it is not a "tax" but the price of a commodity, and the ambassador pays for bananas if he buys them in a shop so why not his road use too.

I am inclined to agree.

Perhaps Ken could get some wheelclampers to clamp US embassy cars found stationary in the C-charge area if not having paid the charge? Perhaps some trigger happy wingnut (person with short hair and big ears) would then pull a gun - as happened in the US embassy once when I short-cut the empty zig-zag tape queuing lines by ducking under the tapes to get to the available staff at the counter.

Maybe Shrub would then send a gunboat up the Thames.

What is it with Americans? We gave them civilisation. Evidently we did not give them enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 12:43 PM

wolfie, ken's one of the good guys......bit of left wing , politically correct bore - well quite a lot of one actually!

but theres no nastiness, no intention to be anything but a nice guy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish repor
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 11:36 AM

go back to Iran and try their luck with the ayatollahs
What is worrying about that remark is less the attack on a pair of brothers who may be everything from mildly unpleasant to crooks (I just don't know and don't care) but the thinly disguised racism in Livingstone's remarks. 'Iran' (who cares about Iran or Iraq, they are all just the same dark-skinned crowd) in Livingstone's remark is a place that compares badly with a shining London governed by Livingstone in that comparison and 'ayatollahs' too are bad. The choice of his comparison shows what he really thinks deep under his patina of anti-racism. Usually the 'go where you came from' remark is used by people from the right and is recognised as racist. (But mnaybe he was drunk again which is always a good excuse for racist remarks?)

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 10:32 AM

I don't know who is the right or wrong of this malarkey, and reading through this thread hasn't really been all that informative.

However the thread does put me in mind of one day about a couple of years ago - I was gigging at an old peoples residential home somewhere in the depths of Linclonshire.

There was this old cockney lady and she said to me, 'That Ken Livingstone! He's a wonderful man! Yer know, he sticks up for us Londoners!'


with support like that, I think the reporter would have done well to pick on someone his own size.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 05:56 AM

Nice one, guest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 12:58 PM

Yeah, but the developers weren't Iranian. They were born in India of Jewish Iraqi parents. Ken may not be anti-semitic but he ought to think twice about how he says things. After all it's not the Reuben brothers' background that's the problem but how they are acting now ie. upsetting Ken's Olympic plans.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Flash Company
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 10:02 AM

Well, Ken has now proved he is not Anti-semetic by making an Anti-Iranian commentto a developer, along the lines of 'Why don't you go back to Teheran and try your luck with the Ayatollahs?'

FC


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 06:50 PM

So a reporter's feelings got hurt. Boo bloody Hoo. Ken Livingstone has said plenty of stupid and insensitive things in his time. He has also consistently stuck his neck out for London and got up the noses of those in power in Westminster, to the extent that the tories even abolished an entire city council to try and get rid of him in the 80s. If you sack every politician who makes a fool of himself from time to time soon no-one will be running the country. Livingstone was elected by the people of London in the face of opposition from the government and his own party leadership. They, and only they, have the right to get rid of him.

Posted by Chris and wholly endorsed by a very happy Londoner who is proud to be represented by Ken. If we didn't want him holding the position he has we would have voted otherwise. And if he stands again he will get in again. A true prince among thieves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 03:00 PM

The current British political climate is that any apology or compromise is weakness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 11:43 AM

Wolfgang has made several good points. I think he's right about cultural differences. From the point of view of this outsider (Canadian), it's hard to understand why a public figure of Livingstone's apparent stature wouldn't just make a simple apology ("Sorry to anyone who was offended ..."), and then move on. Why would he want to waste time and energy defending some thoughtless and insensitive remarks he made in anger to an insignificant person? And equally hard to understand why so many on a board such as this would see a simple apology as some kind of surrender to the forces of evil.

I live in a province (Alberta) the premier of which makes a public apology about once a month - the latest was for throwing a book at a young page (as in servant, not paper!) in parliament. That barely made the news. Usually his apologies are met with rolling of eyes, heaving of sighs, and some editorializing ... So - cultural differences?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 04:27 AM

Here is some information aboutthe Reubens Brothers. But note the url.

http://www.reubenbrothers.com/article50.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 04:18 AM

Hmm...a little rummage seems to indicate that the Reubens story was started by the Evening Standard. The dangers of a hostile press seem to be well revealed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 04:08 AM

So a reporter's feelings got hurt. Boo bloody Hoo. Ken Livingstone has said plenty of stupid and insensitive things in his time. He has also consistently stuck his neck out for London and got up the noses of those in power in Westminster, to the extent that the tories even abolished an entire city council to try and get rid of him in the 80s. If you sack every politician who makes a fool of himself from time to time soon no-one will be running the country. Livingstone was elected by the people of London in the face of opposition from the government and his own party leadership. They, and only they, have the right to get rid of him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 03:50 AM

Have we bothered to check what actually caused the remark?

Do not necessarily believe all assertions.

Remember the "evidence" that apparently convinced the standards committee that Finegold had not been homophobically provoking guests was....Finegold's tape recorder. Oh, of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 03:06 AM

The reporter was shit-stirring but he was also dead right. Ken espouses political correctness and shouldn't have spoken like that quite apart from the fact that as a public figure he should expect to be harrassed by the press. Now he's done it again. He's told someone to go back to their own country, just the sort of comment he's supposed to fight against. And then it turns out that Finegold and the Reubens are co-religionists so Ken has now laid himself open to charges of anti-semitism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: melodeonboy
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 12:47 PM

Gutter press hacks are notorious for causing great distress to various individuals and groups, albeit, in most cases, in a way which does not fall into the category of verbal or racial abuse.

Considering that the "reporter" in question decided to take up such disreputable employment in an industry where abuse and character assassination is so common, I find it remarkable that he's been taken so seriously.

If I ever have the misfortune to be pestered by people like that, they'll get far more than a throwaway sarky comment about prison guards!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: jacqui.c
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 12:26 PM

So what exactly did the Reubens do that upset the lad this time?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 12:09 PM

Words are mostly older than the present day meaning. One can quarrel about words without end.

However: Holocaust comes from the Greek and means 'completely burned' (of an animal offering). In this sense, its first use we know of was by Xenophon, roughly 2400 years ago. Well over a hundred times it is found in the Greek bible. I have no idea how this word is translated in the English bible.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 11:50 AM

Mr. Red,

Romani Rose, chairman of the central committee of the German Sinti and Roma, speaks about up to 500,000 (lower estimate: 200,000) Sinti and Roma being killed during the holocaust. He wouldn't use a too small number.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 09:56 AM

robomatic - read what is put not what you want to.

the Cossaks fought with the Germans in ww11 "because of history". the word Holocaust was coined to describe the Tsarist treatment of Ukranians which has been described as killing more people than the German campaign against Jews. And was Stalin any better? - as a result they had a grudge to settle by 1939.

FWIW Russians will tell you that Hiltler's war killed more Russians than Jews. Statistics are meaningless without context. And need an open mind to focus properly. Now about weapons of mass destruction and their existence.......................

And as for the number of Roma people, it is not something that can be counted as easily. I defer to my informants - who can get it wrong - the BBC.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 08:01 AM

Some silence would be welcome

Mr Livingstone apparently said the Reubens could "go back to Iran and try their luck with the ayatollahs, if they don't like the planning regime or my approach"....
Mr Livingstone's aggressive and intolerant streak now roams widely in search of any opponent he thinks weak and unpopular enough to pick on. ...
he should learn that sometimes the best thing he could do is shut up.


It seems to be a repeating pattern with this man.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Feb 06 - 02:30 PM

Mr Red you are a fount of (mis) information.

Term Holocaust as a reference to the Nazi extermination of the Jews didn't come about until well after WWII. The term you refer to vis-a-vis Ukrainians is possibly an English translation from an existing Ukrainian or Russian term. Why not do a bit of honest research and start your own thread.

It is true that "ethnic cleansing" occurred among many minorities in Europe over the past few hundred years, Jews not excepted.

I've read that about 2 million Gypsies were killed as part of the Holocaust.

The facts are out there, if you are willing to deal with them and not try to make them fit your preconceived notions and stories.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Feb 06 - 01:02 PM

The principal UK reportage so far is in the Evening Standard. Now why do I not feel inclined to trust that?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish repor
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Feb 06 - 12:39 PM

Tony Blair must be very glad that this business of "doing damage to the reputation of his office" doesn't apply to Prime Ministers.

I'm puzzled how an unelected body, which has no juridical ststus, has the power to suspend an elected official.

Comparing someone to a Nazi prison guard may be bad manners and over the top, but there's no suggestion that Ken broke any law. It was a question of bad taste. In an episode of Seinfeld some authoritarian proprietor of a caff was described as "the Coffee Nazi" - would that have been a reasonable justification for a witch-hunt?

I think Ken wold have done better to button his lip - that kind of insult should be reserved for situatons like Abu Ghraib rather than wasted on some reporter who's stirring. But I'd think that this kind of proceeding by "the Adjudication Panel for England" (daft title) should at most be reserved for cases of deliberate lying and underhanded behaviour in office (for example if Ken Livingstone had acted like Tony Blair did in getting us into his war).


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 06 - 11:23 AM

He was democratically elected and only the electorate should decide if suspension is in order. Which it isn't IMO. He is the most unlikely closet racist on this earth and the Daily Mail are just trying to score cheap political points and destablise democracy. The reporter was being provocative and intrusive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Feb 06 - 11:08 AM

A follow up. I guess one can predict safely from the original posts who of us is pleased or displeased with this (preliminary) outcome.

Livingstone suspended for a month

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish repor
From: Wolfgang
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 06:44 AM

When did Ken state that some one was a Nazi or make reference to Jews? (Ian)

No, he used the word 'German' and not 'Nazi' to give the impression he intended which I have complained about already. No, he didn't use the word 'Jew', he only immediately after the reporter told him he was a Jew compared him to a concentration camp guard. What a sophistic defense!

It is interesting to see the cultural differences in this thread. It might be a consequence of our history, perhaps, but any German politician whatever his prior acceptance would have been would have lost his job with or without apology had he said what Livingstone has said. Support for such a politician would only have come from the far right. In 1991, even the chairman of the Green party, Stroebele, has been forced to renounce for one sentence in an interview which in Mudcat would be considered mainstream opinion.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Boab
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 01:02 AM

It is my opinion that if politicians down through the ages had comprised totally of humanitarians of the Ken Livingstone stamp, there would have been no cause arising for the present discussion. I don't agree with all of the man's political statements, but a glance at the ranks of his detractors tends to put him in a good light!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: jacqui.c
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 11:35 PM

100


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: jacqui.c
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 11:35 PM

It would seem that there have been even more recent concentration camps, as a result of the Yugoslavian conflict at least. It's just that the German camps were easily found and publicised so widely that the name has become synonymous with that particular era. Even the Japenese camps have not had the enduring infamy of the Eurpean camps. Thus it would be quite natural to make reference to German guards when addressing a hectoring journalist in that way.

From what I can see the man just made capital out of a throwaway remark.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 07:33 PM

1) Boar War. Mostly women and children, many died

2) Roma people lost almost as many as the Jews - but they lacked a cohesive voice.

3) the word holocaust was coined during the Tsarist pograms of Ukraine. The Cossacks fought in WWII with the Germans against the Russians because of the history. I have heard it said that the Russian offensive that created the word Holocaust killed more Ukrainians over a longer period of time. They used to cut off the two fore-fingers of the bandura players because it was seen as a political statement to play the Ukranian music. And the musicians were the lucky ones.

But it was a longer time ago and further away so it didn't happen OK? And wasn't as bad as the Jewish holocaust anyway.

Yea sure........ if you say so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Ian
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 04:06 AM

When did Ken state that some one was a Nazi or make reference to Jews?
As far as I recall Concentration Camps were a British inovation in South Africa. The guards were British from a multitude of religious backgrounds. It is also highly posible that the guards did not speak in a respectful manner to their charges.

It is also highly probable that in the German concentration camps not all guards were Nazis and not all prisoners were Jews.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 01:17 PM

If these silly lefties invent all this political correct, lets-celebrate-multi-culturaly-enriched-diversity crap, then they have to abide by it.

Ken Livingstone, what a odd man


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 07:37 PM

There was another thread recently on Mudcat regarding commemmorating Auschwitz (and other) mass murder in which there was more than one comment on whether there was a point in re-hashing Jewish consciousness of terror, loss and grief. That thread went rather well I thought but here I am tempted to make such a comment myself because I think possibly both sides demean the reference by utilizing it in rather off-hand personal jibes. In these cases, in America, which do occur, and have personally occurred to me, I treat it strictly as one-on-one, because nine times out of ten the remark is thoughtlessly generated out of temporary stupidity, fatigue, or a misplaced attempt to be humorous. I have been personally as prone to error in this regard as anyone else.

This affair makes me want to give each of the participants a little shake and the question: "Are the next words out of your mouth going to make things better or not?"

There was a Seinfeld episode where he rather cruelly tricks his uncle into breaking up with his girlfriend on the (made-up) pretext that she is an anti-semite. After the damage is done, Seinfeld realizes he has made things worse for himself and he works on his uncle to get back with her. "But she's an anti-semite!" the uncle says. Seinfeld gives him a look and says "Can you blame her?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 09:35 AM

McGrath of Harlow - and you support the paparatzi in everything they do?

Not the whole truth and you know it. Even a drunk driver at 30 miles an hour can crash, but is unlikely to kill. The car travelled at speed because of the baying hounds who were so considerate they felt that photographs of a dying woman in the carnage was just what the public wanted.

I think the public told the media what they wanted at the funeral, but the media have the microphone so they record history. And most of it is celebrety obsessed lies fed by the publicity seeking "wannabe rich".

Not to people with half a brain they don't.

That car had been taken apart for 6 months to look for eavedropping/location devices. Who placed them there? MI5, scum, blackmailers, tick at least one of the above.

The media needs to be contrite now - not 1 month after Di's death. WE speak for her, who will speak for McGrath of Harlow when he is caught in a story not of his making and unable to avoid the scum? Only those with that half a brain obviously.

Ken was hounded until he snapped. The story was engineered. It is not news, it is not a newspaper. It is a comic and they are just stories. The media have to earn respect as much as politicians and neither are doing too well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 04:40 AM

I got a reply to my email I sent supporting KL. It seems Londoners supported him between two to one and three to one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 10:58 PM

It is time this ideology stopped. It is just unacceptable to be anti-christian anti-hindu, anti muslim,...is the rest of the world less equal? It has become a tactic to use anti-semetism shield to protect a small minority's huge interests and increase their power to the extent that they now can threaten a high ranking government official's career. Would you fall for such a claim if it was propagated by the American Indians? Go figure!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: GUEST,Simo
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 10:44 PM

It is time this ideology stopped. It is just unacceptable to be anti-christian anti-hindu, anti muslim,...is the rest of the world less equal? It has become a tactic to use anti-semetism to protect a small minority's huge interests and increase their power tom the extent that they now can threaten a high ranknig government official career. Would you fall for such a claim if it was propagated by the American Indians? Go figure!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 08:18 AM

Ken's refused to apologise once again this morning, and harangued the press in general, and this journalist and his paper in particular, about their objectionable behaviour in pursuing him when he clearly indicated he was unwilling to be interviewed.

Maybe we need more politicians like Ken, who have the courage to stand up for what they believe in and won't kow-tow to political-correctness and the demands of the thought-police?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish repor
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 07:22 PM

Princess Di died because she climbed in a car with a drunk driver, and couldn't be bothered to put on her seat belt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 07:21 PM

Good on you Ken...

Now thats how all our politicians should behave, with spirit, principle and true to his beliefs.
Contrast Kens words to those of Tony "the weasel" Blair, "Just apologise and move on", as if truth had no meaning or importance.

As I said earlier, I hope ken makes an issue of this, and the people of London and the whole country give him their support.
Maybe its the beginning of a fightback against lies, spin and cynical manipulation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 06:23 PM

Red Ken is not my most favourite politician. Well favourite in that context is a misnomer. However news reporters are not exactly the most considerate of scum. They think that because politicians are mendatious and coniving it makes them fair game. Trouble is that the likes of you and I come in for the same treatment. A simple inconsequential question with evasive answers can invoke an interrogation.
I speak from personal experience.

Princess Di was hounded to death by the scum. Remember that.

they do not do it in my name


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: GUEST,POET
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 05:54 PM

I DO NOT HATE THE GERMANS BECAUSE THEIR FATHERS BOMBED OUR ROAD.
I WOULD NOT APOLOGISE TO GERMANY BECAUSE MY FATHER BOMBED BERLIN.
I HATE THE MAN WHO RAPED MY GIRL BUT HIS SON DIDN'T COMMIT THAT SIN.
I FEEL NO GUILT FOR HISTORY MY FOREFATHERS MUST CARRY THAT LOAD.

IT PROBABLY DOESN'T SCAN BUT I HOPE YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN,
FROM HATE AND GUILT COMES ONLY DESTRUCTION.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish repor
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 05:51 PM

Well I couldn't swear what "race" the alien concerned is actually supposed to be. But to me he looks distinctly like a caricature of someone from the Middle East, what with that nose an all. And the kind of racism that's been endorsed here doesn't necessarily worry too much about details.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 02:52 PM

Kevin,
in fairness - the cartoon you point at is not racist (no race obvious in the drawing). It certainly is chauvinist and xenophobic. Not that the Mail is not well known for its racist attitudes, just that this particular example might not be the best.

Richard,
I do indeed admire Ken for his stance and I hope he sticks to his guns. I think he's wrong on many things, but not in matters of racism and inclusiveness. The Mail has shot itself in the foot in my book, by letting its agenda show.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish repor
From: Wolfgang
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 02:47 PM

McGrath,

in my eyes, the attitude 'I would withdraw my comments if the other guy first..." fits not well with 'You are responsible for your own actions'.

What hinders Livingstone to take responsibility for his own action and not to hide behind a 'he first' like any schoolboy found out.

I have never liked the newspaper involved, but Livingstone has lost in my eyes here too. If he feels he has the right to fight back to a reporter I'm with him. But why he choose to say 'concentration camp guard' immediately after the reporter has told him he was Jewish insteda of 'obnoxious prick' 'pain in the arse' or 'hireling'. Of all those people who do things just because they are paid for it he only comes up with 'concentration camp guard' as a comparison for the reporter?

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 02:29 PM

And today he has gone to bat against the Mail again. You have to admire the man for his balls of steel!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish repor
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 02:06 PM

Surely that's more or less what he did say?

"...He added that over the past two weeks his "main concern" was for many Jewish Londoners, and regretted if his comments "may have been seen to downplay the horror and magnitude of the Holocaust".

"I wish to say to Londoners my words were not intended to cause such offence and that my view remains that the Holocaust against the Jews is the greatest racial crime of the 20th century...."


As for the suggestion that the newspaper group involved has any right to point accusingly at anyone for racism - once again I draw your attention to a vile racist cartoon which was published in the Daily Mail only last week.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish reporter
From: GUEST,Mk
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 01:46 PM

Its about time someone stood up to the racist press, even resulting from this - so well done to KL for this.

However it might be best for London if he says "no offence was meant but regrets any that may have been caused" and then with even more credibilty, make his political statement by continously and relentlessly championing the anti racism stance against racist media.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ken Livingston's Nazi jibe to Jewish repor
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 01:46 PM

Reading that through, it gets a bit confusing, what with all those "he's". So again:

They seem to go perfectly well together to me. Ken says that his comments were a response to the journalist's behavour, for which the journalist was personally responsible (ie no "I was only obeying orders"). If the journalist had expressed regret for that behaviour, Ken said that he would have been happy to withdraw his own comments.   

Where's the inconsistency? It's not as if Ken was saying that someone else was responsible for his own actions or words.


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