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Lyr Req: Stand Up For Judas (Leon Rosselson)

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JUDAS


Related threads:
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Lyr Req: My Name is Judas (8)
Lyr Add: 'Judas' (Child 23?) by John Jacob Niles (9)
Help: JUDAS (6)
(origins) Tune Req: Judas ballad (Child 23) (3)
Lyr Req: Stand Up For Judas (Leon Rosselson) (4)


hw001@post.almac.co.uk 01 Dec 98 - 06:43 PM
skw@ 03 Dec 98 - 09:05 AM
Nielsen,DK 03 Dec 98 - 12:54 PM
skw@ 07 Dec 98 - 04:17 AM
Jon W. 07 Dec 98 - 11:02 AM
Will 07 Dec 98 - 04:21 PM
bigJ 07 Dec 98 - 06:01 PM
Joe Offer 07 Dec 98 - 09:20 PM
Jerry Friedman 08 Dec 98 - 11:29 PM
The Shambles 03 Feb 00 - 02:07 AM
katlaughing 13 Apr 01 - 05:25 AM
Stewie 13 Apr 01 - 05:50 AM
wysiwyg 13 Apr 01 - 12:18 PM
Lonesome EJ 13 Apr 01 - 12:24 PM
GUEST,Rana 13 Apr 01 - 12:36 PM
wysiwyg 13 Apr 01 - 01:03 PM
katlaughing 13 Apr 01 - 01:11 PM
Lonesome EJ 13 Apr 01 - 01:40 PM
katlaughing 13 Apr 01 - 01:48 PM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 13 Apr 01 - 04:45 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 27 Jan 04 - 05:44 PM
Margret RoadKnight 27 Jan 04 - 06:28 PM
Gareth 27 Jan 04 - 06:57 PM
GUEST,jeri 29 Dec 12 - 06:31 PM
Elmore 29 Dec 12 - 06:41 PM
GUEST,Jack Sprocket 29 Dec 12 - 07:07 PM
Elmore 29 Dec 12 - 07:42 PM
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Subject: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: hw001@post.almac.co.uk
Date: 01 Dec 98 - 06:43 PM

I'm trying to find the lyrics for these 2 fairly obscure folk songs. The first is "Stand Up For Judas" by Leon Rosselson. It is on a 1982 vinyl album of Dick Gaughan's, called "Different Kind of Love Song". The second song is "The Blues Run The Game" by Jackson C. Frank.
Is this possible ?
Thanks
Zel.
Thread #7854   Message #172743
Posted By: Steve Parkes
03-Feb-00 - 03:49 AM
Thread Name: Stand Up For Judas/The Blues Run the Game
Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.

And here's your other song - I'd already asked! "The Blues Run The Game" by Jackson C. Frank

Steve


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: skw@
Date: 03 Dec 98 - 09:05 AM

I'll bring in 'Stand Up For Judas' tomorrow or next week (if no one beats me to it). - Susanne


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: Nielsen,DK
Date: 03 Dec 98 - 12:54 PM

I have the words to The Blues Runs The Game.But I need some time to find them. Give me a reminder in a few days, and I will send the words. Mail to: nielen@post8.tele.dk

Jens Nielsen


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Subject: ADD: Stand Up For Judas (Rosselson) ^^
From: skw@
Date: 07 Dec 98 - 04:17 AM

Here are the words of 'Stand Up For Judas' as Roy Bailey sings them on Rosselson's 'Love Loneliness Laundry' (1976). Dick Gaughan changed a few words in his recording, but the only significant change is that at the end of verse 3 he changes the 'chains of misery' to 'chains of tyranny'.


STAND UP FOR JUDAS
(Leon Rosselson)

Chorus:
So stand up, stand up for Judas and the cause that Judas served
It was Jesus who betrayed the poor with his word

The Romans were the masters when Jesus walked the land
In Judea and in Galilee they ruled with an iron hand
And the poor were sick with hunger and the rich were clothed in splendour
And the rebels whipped and crucified hung rotting as a warning
And Jesus knew the answer
Said, Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, said, Love your enemies
But Judas was a Zealot and he wanted to be free
Resist, he said, The Romans' tyranny

Jesus was a conjuror, miracles were his game
And he fed the hungry thousands and they glorified his name
He cured the lame and the lepers, he calmed the wind and the weather
And the wretched flocked to touch him so their troubles would be taken
And Jesus knew the answer
All you who labour, all you who suffer only believe in me
But Judas sought a world where no one starved or begged for bread
The poor are always with us, Jesus said

Now Jesus brought division where none had been before
Not the slaves against their masters but the poor against the poor
Set son to rise up against father, and brother to fight against brother
For he that is not with me is against me, was his teaching
Said Jesus, I am the answer
You unbelievers shall burn forever, shall die in your sins
Not sheep and goats, said Judas, But together we may dare
Shake off the chains of misery we share

Jesus stood upon the mountain with a distance in his eyes
I am the way, the life, he cried, The light that never dies
So renounce all earthly treasures and pray to your heavenly father
And he pacified the hopeless with the hope of life eternal
Said Jesus, I am the answer
And you who hunger only remember your reward's in Heaven
So Jesus preached the other world but Judas wanted this
And he betrayed his master with a kiss

By sword and gun and crucifix Christ's gospel has been spread
And 2.000 cruel years have shown the way that Jesus led
The heretics burned and tortured, and the butchering, bloody crusaders
The bombs and rockets sanctified that rain down death from heaven
They followed Jesus, they knew the answer
All non-believers must be believers or else be broken
So put no trust in Saviours, Judas said, For everyone
Must be to his or her own self - a sun

[1983:] The only way to accept or reject any ideology is to subject it to critical scrutiny. I feel this side of the Christian tradition deserves examination, as it is the unquestioned assumption that Christianity is a "good" philosophy and it is only its malpractice which is "bad". (Notes Dick Gaughan, 'A Different Kind of Love Song')

[1997:] In the Christian world, the name of Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Jesus for the paltry sum of 30 pieces of silver, has become synonymous with unmitigated evil. The kiss, by which he betrayed his master to the arresting troops, has become an archetypal symbol of treachery. His deed has become an emblem of sin itself, showing the perversity of human beings who can stand in the divine presence, yet deliberately reject it. [...]
Some scholars have recently concluded that the Judas story fits uneasily into the narrative and may have been inserted later. His act of treachery seems so arbitrary. Mark, whose gospel is usually regarded as the earliest and whose account of Judas is very sketchy, gives us no motive for Judas's betrayal. It is only some 10 years later, when Matthew is writing and the story has had more time to develop, that the 30 pieces of silver are mentioned and Judas's treachery is attributed to greed.
And why was a betrayal necessary? Jesus had become a well-known figure in Jerusalem and it is hard to believe that the arrest depended solely upon Judas's identification. Further, scholars have long noted that the Greek verb 'paradidomi', which is used in the Gospels to describe Judas's act, simply means 'to hand over' - not, as it is usually translated, 'to betray'. Judas need not have been acting against Jesus's wishes: the Gospels tell us that Jesus insisted that his death was preordained and tells Judas to go ahead.
But this raises a theological difficulty. Why, it has been asked, did Jesus choose Judas as a disciple, knowing that he would prove treacherous? [...] Jesus shows that there will be no mercy for Judas: 'The Son of Man is going to his fate, as the scriptures say he will, but alas for the man by whom the Son of Man is handed over. Better for that man if he had never been born!' (Mark 14:21).
It is not surprising, therefore, that some have felt sympathetic towards Judas. [...] it is certainly true that the Gospel portrait of Judas has helped to shape the chronic anti-semitism of Christianity. [...] On Good Friday, after hearing the Gospel story of Jesus's betrayal and death, Christians would rush from the churches to take vengeance on the Jews. And the inspiration for these Easter pogroms was the figure of Judas. (Karen Armstrong, Observer, 30 March)

The day after, on 31 March 1997, the German magazine Der Spiegel printed an article in which the theologian Hans-Josef Klauck argued, even more radically, that most of Judas' supposed conduct had been inserted into the Gospel from earlier sources in an attempt to explain why Jesus failed (according to human standards) and to direct all blame away from the Romans and towards the Jews. Klauck thinks Judas may have played some kind of 'infamous' role in the events but never the iniquitous one with which he has been burdened. I can't quite remember now but I think both articles were inspired by the same publication(s). - Susanne

^^


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: Jon W.
Date: 07 Dec 98 - 11:02 AM

On the other hand, Matthew was there from the very beginning of Jesus' ministry and Mark in all probability was only there at the very end (and then as a startled observer), so who would know better? If Judas was a zealot, then he was a humanist (i.e. relying on human solutions rather than on God), (mis)using religion only to further his political goals. Just as those who perpetrated the acts mentioned in the last verse of the song misused religion to further their worldly goals - lust for wealth and power. Therefore they are closer to Judas than to Jesus. This song and the attached commentaries certainly provide food for thought.


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: Will
Date: 07 Dec 98 - 04:21 PM

Bailey's version of this is very powerful. Does anyone know if Rosselson's disks have been released on CD?


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: bigJ
Date: 07 Dec 98 - 06:01 PM

Rosselson certainly has at least two CDs out. One is called 'Wo Sind De Elefanten?' on the Fuse label (same as Roy Bailey) Serial number CFCD 002 (1991). It contains the songs : The Neighbour's Cat/ The Poet, The Wife and the Monkey/ (Title Song)/ The Juggler/ Whatever Happened to Nannerl?/ Song of the Old Communist/ Where's The Enemy/ William/ General Lockjaw Briefs the British Media/ Out of the Fires and Smoke of History. The other CD I can't find at the moment - so much for my filing system! While writing, can I recommend the book 'Bringing the News From Nowhere' - Songs by Leon Rosselson, it was first published in 1992 and contains the words and music for 'Stand Up For Judas' plusabout a hundred more.


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Subject: Stand Up For Judas - Leon Rosselson
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Dec 98 - 09:20 PM

Gee, I'm glad you posted this song, Susanne. I heard it once, many years ago, perhaps while I was still a seminary student. I can't say I agree with "Stand Up for Judas," but it certainly gives me a lot to think about. I think there IS good reason to sympathize with Judas, and it seems to me that Jesus himself could well have been quite sympathetic toward him.
The problems Rosselson brings up in the song are real problems. Christianity has done much harm to this world - but I think the harm is done by Christians who have twisted the teachings of Jesus. I don't think Jesus would approve of "Christian" activities such as the Inquisition or the Crusades - or the Holocaust. I think the main point of Jesus' teaching was the ideal of selfless love.
While there are problems in this world that may be resolved only by revolution, bloody revolutions seem to beget only more bloodshed. Long-term solutions require generosity, respect, and love. I prefer the revolutionary techniques of Gandhi, Martin Luther King, and Jesus.
Still, I really like the song.
-Joe Offer-
Oh, and I have to gloat, just a bit - I paid 99 cents for Rosselson's "Bringing the News from Nowhere" at the Tower Outlet. I just didn't realize the song was in there. It's a great collection of powerful songs.


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 08 Dec 98 - 11:29 PM

'I feel this side of the Christian tradition deserves examination, as it is the unquestioned assumption that Christianity is a "good" philosophy and it is only its malpractice which is "bad".'

Unquestioned? I don't think so.

For sympathetic views of Judas, see a wonderful story by Jorge Luis Borges called in translation, if memory serves, "A German Requiem". Though I think it was originally a Gnostic "heresy". And of course Jesus Christ Superstar, which comes down heavy on Jesus's side but still has some sympathy for Judas.


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Feb 00 - 02:07 AM

I found this on my travels and thought it might be of interest?


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 05:25 AM

refresh


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: Stewie
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 05:50 AM

Other Rosselson CDs (all on Fuse) include 'Rosselsongs' CFCD 001, 'Guess What They're Selling at the Happiness Counter' CFCD 003, 'Perspectives' CFCD 006 and 'Intruders' CFCD 005.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 12:18 PM

Interesting timing to refresh this. Unfortunately some of us who might like to respond at length will be busy over the next several days.

However in music terms, see thread ASH WEDNESDAY, LENT & MUSIC which contains a posted song and some discussion, JUDAS & MARY.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 12:24 PM

That's an interesting song, alright. The struggle between the spiritual and humanist elements in Christianity has gone on since the beginning. Since Christ's emphasis was on spiritual salvation, He was likely looked upon as a disappointment by those who sought a leader in the attempt to overthrow Roman rule. The fact that Christ was also pragmatic is often overlooked. I believe that He realized that the Zealots had a snowball's chance in Hell of overthrowing the Romans. Thus the statement "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" is only at face value a renunciation of earthly power and the will to struggle: It is basically a message to His followers that violent revolution against the most powerful occupying army the world had ever seen was futile. The key had to lie in a basic sea-change in man's behavior and beliefs. The fact that eventually this Great Empire would adopt belief in Him as its official religion was something which even Christ may not have foreseen.


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: GUEST,Rana
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 12:36 PM

Leon's Official Home page

Leon Rosselson homepage
Rana


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 01:03 PM

LEJ, I have a great teaching series on tape about the human and divine natures of Christ, touching on and based on what he did and didn't "know" in life on the planet... in reference to the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Verrrrry interesting!

~S~


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 01:11 PM

I refreshed it because someone asked in Mickey MacConnell's thread, "Is it blasphemy," for the words and though there should be a separate thread for it.


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 01:40 PM

Good job, Kat.


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 01:48 PM

Thanks, LeeJ. I guess I oculd jump in with some of the discussion, but I've done it before and find it much easier t just highky recommend two books which I find to be of great interest concerning what Jesus, Mary, and Joseph did or did not know. I've posted them before, but anyway, here they are, again:

The Mystical Life of Jesus and The Secret Doctrines of Jesus by H. Spencer Lewis, Ph.D. published in the 1930's and last time I checked, both available at www.bibliofind.com.

kat


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 04:45 PM

Here is Leon Rosselson's own Web-site"

http://www.fishdesign.com/rosselson/leon.html


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 05:44 PM

Compare "Stand Up For Jesus" with "A Roman Lawyer in Jerusalem," 1902, William Wetmore Story.
Enter Judas in Search at American Memory to find.
A long poem about a defense of Judas.


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Subject: RE: I'm looking for two quite obscure songs.
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 06:28 PM

The two websites listed above for Leon Rosselson aren't....
do a Google search


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Subject: RE: Stand Up For Judas
From: Gareth
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 06:57 PM

30 pieces of silver - As a bribe that was rather cheap !

No sense of value had Judas.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stand Up For Judas (Leon Rosselson)
From: GUEST,jeri
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 06:31 PM

jesus and christianity are still tools of capitalism. The song shows how jesus' teachings turned natural allies against each other, which is what capitalism does- why else do the poor vote against their own best interests time and again? Why do we still pass anti-immigrant laws. Why are we still so racist? Why do we allow our government to murder and maim muslim children? We allow the global capitalists to turn us against each other the better to control and oppress us. And actually I think the church is more than a tool, it is an active partner is oppressing the poor.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stand Up For Judas (Leon Rosselson)
From: Elmore
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 06:41 PM

This song is a parable. I don't take it literally.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stand Up For Judas (Leon Rosselson)
From: GUEST,Jack Sprocket
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 07:07 PM

jeri has got it bang on in spirit, parable or not. Rosselson had read and been influenced by the works of the historian Chrstopher Hill, historian of the English Revolution, whose work spanned the period from the late Elizabethan period, when Puritanism was as dangerous as Recusancy, to our Glorious Revolution, when Englishmen agreed to become respectable and concentrate on selling slaves. The Diggers' Song is from the middle of this period, and Stand Up For Judas would then have been seen as a shocking but just comment by many radicals- Levellers, Ranters, Quakers, Fifth Monarchy Men, Muggletonians, Latitudinarians and advanced Baptists. One who would have stood against was John Bunyan, he of Pilgrim's Progress. He (again according to Hill) saw the problem not as an oppressing power, but as a power oppressing the wrong people. A Christian Talib that time has been kind to.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stand Up For Judas (Leon Rosselson)
From: Elmore
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 07:42 PM

Odd (to me) that this topic came up. I recently bought the Rosselson version for my mp3, and have been playing it to death while walking on my treadmill.


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