Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing

Subject: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs.
From:
Date: 25 Nov 98 - 08:54 PM

I am engaged in a long-term research project on the phenomenon of mixed language lyrics. I start from Irish/English, but have an input to Scots Gaelic/English, Welsh/English, Spanish/Catalán etc. I suspect that in modern terms, Macaronics has to do with languages/cultures in contact/conflict. My ideas are based on the Irish/English parameter, but I am sure that we are not unique in this respect. I would be grateful for any thoughts, ideas, examples, pointers in this field. I find it inconceivable that I am the only specialist in this area of study. Contact me. Harry O'Prey, 46 Brookvale Ave., Belfast, BT14 6BW, Ireland.

Subject: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs
From: Annraoi Ó Préith
Date: 28 Nov 98 - 09:46 PM

Macaronic Songs are songs in which more than one language is used for effect. The phenomenon is well-known in Ireland especially since the Seventeenth Century. However, I am convinced that it exists in other communities where two or more languages / cultures are in contact / conflict. Does anyone out there have any examples of same ? I seems to me to be a very neglected area. Annraoi

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs
From: Barry Finn
Date: 28 Nov 98 - 11:44 PM

Hi Annraoi The area of sea shanties might be a type you'd be intrested in. With multi national crews trading songs, there seems to be a mix. I found a songs maybe 20 yrs back, the name I had for it was "Slav Ho" (see Colcord). The verses are in english & the chorus in ? (sounds like slav ho, slav eata, brav si ya marita, slav ho). About 3 or 4 yrs back I heard David Parry doing a full english version called the "Saltpetter Shanty" (see Hugill, Shanties of the Seven Seas). Also in his book find the interesting shanty "Eki Dumah" where the verses are in pidgin English & the chorus he belives in Hindustani. Both Hugill & Doerflinger have "Yaw, Yaw, Yaw" or "Ja, Ja, Ja" (yes, yes, yes), Dutch & again pidgin English. In Hugill's Songs of the Sea he has what he calls the "Samoa Song" in Samoan & pidgin English. Hope I've been helpful. Good Luck. Barry

Subject: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing
From: Annraoi
Date: 04 Dec 98 - 08:07 PM

A thread some time ago resulted in only one reply. I find this incredible, especialiy in a multilingual situation as exists in the States. I have learned that songs using Welsh and English exist. What about Bobby Bob in Mann ? Do you have them oveer there? Slane lhiat

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 05 Dec 98 - 02:04 PM

I'm having problems at the moment. I'll try again now.

The short answer is no. Songs have generally been written Manx Gaelic with occasional loan words. There haven't really been that many in English about Mann.

The most famous has been the 1853 song by Eliza Craven Green, an actress from Leeds who did summer seasons in Mann and loved it. The song has recently been recorded by The BGs, who were born in Mann. Most people seem to think they were born in Australia, but they emigrated later.

So back to the original question, yes there are odd examples, but generally no.

Shoh slaynt,

Bobby Bob

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Barbara
Date: 05 Dec 98 - 03:26 PM

I assume you are looking for something more complex than a song with a verse in one language and a chorus in another, since there are quite a number of English/Gaelic songs that cross that way. Like Shul a Roon (Irish)and Sad Am I Without Thee (Hebrides, I think).
Is a Macaronic song one that uses occasional words from another language? It would help if you could explain what it is you are looking for.
Thank you.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Annraoi
Date: 05 Dec 98 - 04:38 PM

To Bobby Bob,Go raibh maith agat as an fhreagra. I'd be glad if you could let me know where I might lay my hands on those songs you mentioned. Shoh slaynt. Barbara. Thanks for your interest and help. Songs with foreign words scattered throughout at random are not covered by my idea of Macaronic. Rather,the use of two or more languages in a structured way. Thus, one might have alternate lines / couplets / quatrains / verses / half-lines even in the languages concerned. The use of the "other" language might be translatory or - more interestingly - as an integral part of the narration, if that is the type of composition involved. One example of the latter is "One morning in June agus mé 'dul a' spaisteoireacht, Casadh domh cailín 's ba ró-dhdeas a gnaoi," etc. A bilingual conversation might be the chosen form as in "Do bhí mé lá ar thaoibh an chnoic" where the ploughman and the girl converse in alternate stanzas, he in Irish, she in English. Is this any help? What is even more interesting is if the Macaronics is carried over in the metrics of the song. Ádh mór, Annraoi

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 05 Dec 98 - 04:40 PM

I don't know about songs, but here's a macaronic bit of the poem "Philip Sparrow" by John Skelton, who lived around 1500, and who is the first person the word "macaronic" reminds me of. The poem is about the death of a pet sparrow.

Alas, it will me so
That Philip is gone me fro!
Si in i qui ta tes,
Alas, I was evil at ease!
De pro fun dis cla ma vi
When I saw my sparrow die!

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Annraoi
Date: 05 Dec 98 - 04:44 PM

Thanks Jerry, that certainly fits the bill. But my own interest is confined to the last three centuries and in living languages. But I very much appreciate the trouble you took to reply.

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 05 Dec 98 - 05:54 PM

And thank you for being more polite than I was--I should have let you answer for yourself.

If you're interested in pop songs, I can think of "Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen", "Vaya con Dios" (preferably pronounced in Spanish instead of "Di-os"), "Michelle", "San Tropez" (I think that's the name--"Viens chez moi, le soir ne va pas terminer, nous resterons toujours ensemble"--wow, not a single accent), and "Hey Baby, Que Paso". But I'll bet that's not what you're looking for.

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 05 Dec 98 - 05:57 PM

I seem to have cut myself off there. I was just going to agree: I live in a bilingual area (English and Spanish), so I find it strange that I can't think of any bilingual songs. But then I don't exactly know all the local songs.

I should add that I'm not sure of the title of the country song that begins "Hey Baby, Que Paso?" (Accents on the e and o.)

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 05 Dec 98 - 07:11 PM

Annraoi Weren't there some example of Irish/Latin macaronics?

regards

Yes, I know I should have done this in Latin, but the residuals are fading.......

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 05 Dec 98 - 08:12 PM

Did you ever hear the song 'Deus meus' by Na Fili on their 'A Kindly Welcome' album? That's exactly the form, with a line in Latin, the international language, and a line in the language of a particular area, in this case Irish.

I think pedantically speaking that a macaronic is actually Latin mixed with another language, but has come to be applied to any two language mix.

I don't think the full lyric is given on the record sleeve notes - another piece of vinyl I can only sit and remember at the moment. The agonies of lost technology. Then again, after an unexpected storm whilst my son was on-line the other week, I can now genuinely include in a Manx phrase book,

'My modem has been struck by lightning'.

My vannaght lhiat,

Bobby Bob

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 06 Dec 98 - 08:50 AM

Bobby

Welcome to the modem-struck-by-lightning club! Happened me about three months ago.

Yes - I think Deus Meus was the one lurking in my head, alright. "Pedantically speaking" - what do you think the ethymology of "macaronic" is?

Subject: Lyr Add: DEUS MEUS
From: Philippa
Date: 06 Dec 98 - 09:27 AM

Yes, I would like the answer to Martin's question too. I think I've heard an explanation, but I forget it.

See 'Gie Dedanken Sind Frei' in the DT. Second verse. Does it qualify?

I'm looking for words for a Scottish macaronic I've heard, appropriately about a Highlander in Glasgow. If I get it, I'll post the lyrics.

Are there any partly Yiddish Macaronic songs?

Bobby Bob, if you want the words to Deus Meus; this is how I remember them - it should be substantially correct and maybe Annraoi or someone else can refine them.

Deus meus adiuva me,
Tabhair dom do dhearc a mhichíl Dé,
Tabhair dom do dhearc a mhichíl Dé,
Deus meus adiuva me

Domine da quod peto a te,
Tabhair dom go dian a ghrian glán glé,
Tabhair dom go dian a ghrian glán glé ,
Domine da quod peto a te

Domine, domine exaudi me,
m'anam bheith lán ded ghrá a Dhé,
m'anam bheith lán ded ghrá a Dhé,
Domine, domine exaudi me

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 31-Mar-02.

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Annraoi
Date: 06 Dec 98 - 11:17 AM

Martin, bobby bob agus Philippa. Thank you all for your interest. The earlist occurrences of Latin/Irish lyrics date from the 7th Century and the "Deus Meus Adiuva Me" is a composition of the cleric Maol Íosa Ó Brolcháin who wrote in the 11th Century. This latter is still to be heard occasionally !! It has been recorded by several artists, including "na Filí" if my failing faculties delude me not. Your version, Philippa, contains some textual innaccuracies which I here set right, i gcead duit:- do dhearc = do shearc; a mhíchíl = a Mhic dhíl Dé; a ghrian ghlan gle = a ghrian ghlan ghlé; next verse- Tuum amoren sicut vis, Tabhair domh go tréan a déarfad arís (bis) Tuum amorem sicut vis.

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Annraoi
Date: 06 Dec 98 - 11:23 AM

There I go again, repeating myself. I don't know how this happens. I try to compose long stuff offline and then post it online. But why the repetition ?? By the way, the origin of "macaronic" seems to stem from a mediaeval Italian practioner called Teofilo Folengo who likened this form of verse to macaroni. I don't think it really matters so long as we all know what we're talking about. Philippa, you mentioned a Scots Gaelic song about a Highlander in Glasgow. This sounds exactly what I'm looking for. Any chance of the words (+ Tune) ?

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Philippa
Date: 06 Dec 98 - 01:11 PM

James Ross. 'A Classification of Gaelic Folk-Song'. "Scottish Studies" 1, 1957 pp 95-151. 2.2 [p.130] Macaronics "Macaronics, poems composed in alternating lines and phrases from two languages, one of them usually Latin, were fairly popular in Western Europe during the late mediaeval period. "Macaronic songs having both English and Gaelic words and phrases as compositional elements first appear in the eighteenth century. These songs are for a bilingual people and cannot be understood by reference to the English or Gaelic elements alone. The purpose of using the two languages where the poet could presumably compose in either one of them appears to be to exploit the peculiar humorous effects that can be obtained by the metrical combination of both languages. To the bilingual the chief humourous element consists of an exaggerated bathos."

examples given: 1)Ma thilleas tu fhathast ' s tu m'aighear 's mo run [if you return, my beloved] perhaps I will marry you 's t-earrach co-dhiubh [in the springtime, anyway]

2)from a song describing a stay in hospital: O madam you surprise me bheil thu dol as do chiall, [are you taking leave of your senses?] chan fhaod thu tigh'n cho teann orm [you mustn't come so close to me] I'm minus all my gear 'S ann thuirt i 'd i smileadh rium [it's then she said to me] you're very shy ma's fhior [if it's true] ach chi mi aig an danns thu [but I'll see you at the dance] if you do not die in here.

So these songs are sort of art form, a clever exploitation of bilingualism. They seem to me not to represent a conflict between the languages nor the adaptation of songs so that more people will understand them (rather the contrary), but a pride in being eloquent in two languages. It's like the bilingual jokes we have today, such as - What do you call the one-eyed Kerryman? Seán Ó Súilleabháin; What did the farmer say when he lost his mechanical baler? "An bhfaca tú mo Sheamaisín" Unfortunately Ross doesn't give a footnote to his first sentence about macaronics in Western Europe. Anyway, Annraoi, you said you wanted to study more recent songs, and I suppose your study could include other sorts of bilingualism in songs besides the sort represented in the lyrics quoted above. Ross does give sources for the excerpts of Gaelic song. You can look up the article as I imagine Queen's Uni. library would keep volumes of "Scottish Studies".

Annraoi, did you get my private e-mail messages, such as the forwarded copy of Die Gedanken sind frei from the DT, and some ideas of who else you might get in touch with concerning your project? / I'm asking around for the song of the highlander's visit to Glasgow - I wanted the lyrics from ever I first heard it anyway, now you've given me the incentive to ask more people more persistently. I hope I'll get the words soon and can post them./Since you seem quite expert in this realm, could you do Mudcat a favour and correct the disgraceful transcription of an Ghile Mear that's on the DT? There was a recent thread on the song, someone saying the words on the DT didn't match the ones on the recording, so I looked at the DT and I was shocked. One problem seems that everywhere a 'é' is wanted an 'i' came out, so we see 'shiimh' and 'chiile'. Which by the way reminds me of the letter to 'Doire Cholm Chille" which ended up in Santiago, Chile - seriously; the incredible thing was it was posted in Galway. --sorry for going off on a tangent, bye for now - Philippa

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 06 Dec 98 - 04:18 PM

Gura mie mooar eu - thanks very much. I hadn't been expecting to get the full lyrics for Deus Meus.

For a meaning of "macaronic", I went to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, still keeping to the old name despite being printed in Chicago now. In Book 7, p. 603 column c there's this:

"originally comic Latin verse form characterized by the introduction of vernacular words with appropriate but absurd Latin endings; later variants apply the same technique to modern languages. the form was invented in the early 16th century by Teofilo Folengo, a dissolute Benedictine monk who applied Latin rules of form and syntax to an Italian vocabulary in his burlesque epic of chivalry Baldus (1517; Le maccherone, 1927-28). He described the macaronic as the literary equivalent of the Italian dish, which, in its 16th-century form, was a crude mixture of flour, butter, and cheese. The Baldus soon found imitators in Italy and France, and some macaronics were even written in mock Greek. The outstanding British poem in this form is the Polemo-Middinia inter Vitarvam et Nebernam (published 1684), an account of a battle between two Scottish villages, in which William Drummond subjected Scots dialect to Latin grammatical rules. A modern English derivative of the macaronic pokes fun at the grammatical complexities of ancient languages taught at school, as in A.D. Godley's illustration of declension in "Motor Bus":

Domine defende nos Contra hos Motores Bos

("Lord protect us from these motor buses").

The form has survived in comic combinations of modern languages. The German-American medleys of Charles G. Leland in his Hans Breitmann's Ballads (first published under that title in 1884) are examples of the modern macaronic, in particular his warning "To a Friend Studying German":

Vill'st dou learn die Deutsche Sprache? Den set it on your card Dat all de nouns has shenders, Und de shenders all are hard."

Thus the Encyclopaedia Britannica, anyway.

Shoh slaynt,

Bobby Bob

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Susan of DT
Date: 06 Dec 98 - 04:30 PM

See the Boar's Head Carol and Old Bangum for Latin/English. Not knowing Latin, i'm not sure how badly corrupted the Latin in Old Bangum is

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Philippa
Date: 07 Dec 98 - 11:46 AM

Bobby Bob gave us a bit from Leland from Encyclopedia Brittania. I found this excerpt from Leland on the web: "[OCTAVE DELEPIERRE ]often spoke of Breitmann's "Interview with the Pope" as his favorite Macaronic poem, which, as he had published two volumes of Macaronea, was praise indeed. His theory was, that as Macaronics were the ultra-extravagance of poetry, he who wrote most recklessly in them did best; in fact, that they should excel in first-rate BADNESS; and from this point of view it is possible that Breitmann's Latin lyric is not devoid of merit, since assuredly nobody ever wrote a worse. "

The German lesson quoted reminds me of similar Germanized English that used to be in issues of MAD magazine - which I'm sure some Mudcatters can remember. And also - Annraoi will appreciate this - of the time someone asked me "Sprechen sie Deutsh" and without thinking I replied "Ní spreichim"!

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 07 Dec 98 - 06:37 PM

I've checked on Manx macaronics. The only two I've come across are poems, one by William Kennish and one by Tom Shimmin. William Kennish wrote The Manxman's Farewell, which started like this:

A Manninagh dooie, from the clean I was troggit Close by the foot of the bridge of Cornaa Whose keystone was fix'd in the year I was ruggit Three miles and a half from the town of Rhumsaa.

A true Manxman, from the cradle I was raised . . .

Whose keystone was fix'd in the year I was born . . .

The Cornaa/Corrany/Corony Bridge was finished in l799. I don't know if this is the only part of the poem which is a macaronic, as I don't have a copy to hand. The rest of his output was in English about Mann, and not without folkloric and historic interest.

As a matter of interest, at the New York banquet to celebrate the opening of the Panama Canal, Ferdinand de Lesseps praised William Kennish as the man who had discovered the only possible route to join the Atlantic and Pacific without using locks. This would have been via two navigable rivers in Ecuador which he proposed to join by means of a 3 mile tunnel through the Cordillera mountains. Kennish was also an inventor who came up with a number of things used for many years by the Royal Navy.

Anyway, that's William Kennish from the north of the Island. Tom Shimmin, from the south, was known as Tom the Dipper. He was something of a rag gatherer, but also a bit light-fingered. There was a story of how Tom was delivering some sort of sermon, and he got the people to look up to heaven. While they were looking up, he slipped a block of cheese under his coat. On another occasion, a shopkeeper saw him slip a pound of butter into his cap. So he invited Tom into the back room for a cup of tea in front of the fire. The shopkeeper amused himself watching Tom getting agitated, and going out with a cap into which all the butter had melted. At the age of 78 he built his Cottage in the Heather to live with his wife up in the hills.

Tom the Dipper was a writer of doggerel, but he produced one macaronic. There are quatrains. This is already rather long, but if you're interested, I'll copy that for you as well.

Mish, lesh firrinys,

Bobby Bob

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 07 Dec 98 - 07:30 PM

. . . seven quatrains . . .

Gow my leshtal.

Bobby Bob

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Annraoi
Date: 07 Dec 98 - 09:04 PM

Bobby Bob, You still haven't answered my question - are you Bob Carswell who used to broadcast on Manx Radio some years ago. And do you know Seán Ó Brádaigh ? Shoh slaynt, Annraoi

Subject: Lyr Add: TOM THE DIPPER'S MACARONIC
From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 08 Dec 98 - 01:39 PM

Gow my leshtal. You may have noticed in one of my previous outings that I mentioned I'd been having trouble. One of them must have been my missing reply to your query. The answer is yes, and I still do my bilingual programme called 'Claare ny Gael' on a Sunday evening on Manx Radio, but now it's from 6.30 pm to 7.45 pm, and also goes out on AM as well as FM. We've also got a 15 minute bilingual magazine programme, 'Traa dy Liooar' on a Wednesday evening at 9.45 pm.

The Claare ny Gael format is two distinct threads, one in Manx and the other in English, not the same stuff in both languages. The 'Traa dy Liooar' format is the same information in both Manx and English.

And yes, Sean O Bradaigh has been an excellent friend to Yn Chruinnaght, the annual Celtic festival in Ramsey, and to the Manx language, which he and Blaanid have learned, partly through attending Dr Brian Stowell's summer schools, and mainly through much dedication and effort with the help of tapes and books at home in Ireland.

But back to macaronics. This is Tom the Dipper's macaronic (eight quatrains - I can't count):

I was born at the Ynnagh where stands yon Big Mill
Ayns shen hooar mee'n chied greme ve curt ayns my veeal
[There I got the first bite (of food) that was put in my mouth]
On the fifteenth of May Eighteen hundred and Nought
Eisht dooyrt ny shenn vraane ver mayd eaddagh mie ort
[Then said the old women, "We'll put good clothing on you"]

Not long I remained down there it is true
Gys cheu Ballacross va mee choyrt lesh dy bieau
[To Ballacross side I was brought quickly]
My uncle he loved me an infant forlorn
Eisht churt lesh va mee dys thie Ballagawne
[Then I was brought to Ballagawne house]

Not long I remained my youth to regale
Eisht churt lesh va mee dys Ballcashtal
[Then I was brought to Castletown]
While there I was sent to school and to trade
As schollhear mie va mee ec three bleeney jeig
[And I was a good scholar ec thirteen years]

I began to improve in the shoemaking trade
As greasee mie va mee ec nuy bleeney jeig
[And I was a good cobbler ec nineteen years]
I soon became foreman, which was no disgrace
Eisht phoost mee shenn ven erskyn daeed blein dy eash
[Then I married an old woman above forty years of age]

Full thirty long years - I then lost my bride
As dooinney treogh va mee ec jeih blein as daeed
[And a widow man was I at fifty years]
Again I got married to a good woman true
Agh boggey ayns paitchyn cha row ad aym rieau
[But joy in children I never had]

Bred and born in the Lowland I upwards would go
Son cha row mee booiagh dy ve injyl myr shoh
[For I was not content to be lowly like this]
I am rising up higher again and again
Ta mee nish beaghey ayns Kirkdale ec Slieau ny Garnane
[I'm now living in Kirkdale (Kirkill) on Carnane mountain]

And shortly like Moses on top of the hill
Yn cheer roym cha baghtal lane bainney as Mill
[The country before me so conspicuously full of milk and honey]
But do not mistake me, I now mean the soul
Ta mee nish taggloo jeh'n cheer spyrrydoil
[I'm now taklking of the spiritual country]

Now I am getting old and death will devour
Dy jean Chreest leeideil as cur bea nooghyn my chour
[May Christ lead me and give a saintly life for (to) me]
Then the great judgement when all shall appear
Goit seose marish Yeesey dys thie mooar yn Ayr
[Taken up with Jesus to the great house of the Father]

Not exactly a comic verse, is it? I've thought of a couple more of short rhymes -

Cronk ard, high hill
Mwyllin geayee, windmill
Skynn gyere, sharp knife
Cloie y feddan, play the fife

Up 'faie Comish' and over at the 'Noe'
Go in 'thie Kirree' and they'll tell you where to go
Big 'thie thoot' and a little 'thie sclate'
A big 'chibbyrt-buckad' on the middle of the street
Big 'muck arkagh' lying on the turf stack
That's the way to find the road to Ballayack

'faie Comish' is Comish's (a personal surname) home-field or flatt
'Noe' is a place name
'thie Kirree' is Kirree or Kitty's house
'thie thoot' is a thatched house
'thie sclate' is a tiled house
'chibbyrt-buckad' is a well with a bucket in it
'muck arkagh' is a sow in pig
Ballayack is a farm name - Jack's balley, or farmstead. You notice in Tom the Dipper's piece that there's Ballacross and Ballagawne, following the same pattern.

Hope I haven't bored you too much.

Slaynt dy mie,

Bobby Bob

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 31-Mar-02.

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 08 Dec 98 - 11:12 PM

Wow.

Philippa, funny you should ask about partly Yiddish, when there's a short Yiddish-Hebrew parodic macaronic in the "Tsena Tsena" thread (as you may already know).

I love "My modem has by struck by lightning" in a phrasebook! Now what's the Manx for "My hovercraft is full of eels"?

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Philippa
Date: 09 Dec 98 - 06:37 AM

From: allan.S Date: 07-Dec-98 - 07:40 PM

We once sang a yiddish version that went Tzena, Tzena, Tzena, Ich hob faltza Tzena Teath, Teath, Teath I have false teath

Allan's contribution reminds me of the way John Harley (and some others) sing the Gaelic 'Eilean nam Bo' -

'Bord na Móna, móna, Bord na Móna, móna, Bord Fáilte'

(The Turf/Peat Board, the Tourist Board : Irish Gaelic titles that even the non-fluent know.)

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 09 Dec 98 - 01:45 PM

Annraoi, as my original reply to your question didn't get posted properly, neither did my little tale of a macaronic written by me a good few years ago. I was at a festival in Cornwall, and I sang it as the first person up to break the ice in what was nominally a competition, but I don't think anyone took it too seriously. One of the judges was the late Brenda Wooton, and I think she was disgusted with my macaronic - not the content, merely the fact that there was English in it. My appalling singing probably didn't help either. But this, for what it's worth, is how it went:

One bright summer's morning, while going to Yn Chruinnaght
Harrish ny sleityn gys Balley Rhumsaa
[Over the mountains to the town of Ramsey]
Quoi haghyr mee er, agh ben aeg cho aalin
[Who did I happen on, but a young woman so beautiful]
She was fine to behold, she was handsome and fair.
Says I, "My young maid, will you come in the heather
As neemayd goaill spoyrt choud as ta shin nyn lhie"
[And we'll have sport whilst we are lying down]
Smiling then, hug ee e glioon ayns my vaggleyn
[She put her knee in my . . . well, you get the idea]
As choud's v'ee faagail, [And whilst she was leaving] there was a tear in my eye.

Yn Chruinnaght is, as I mentioned, our annual Celtic festival in Ramsey (Rhumsaa).

I forgot to ask how you come to ask about Radio Vannin and Sean, etc. And also to say that I understood your question in Irish, despite the funny way it was spelt :-)

The phrase you're looking for, Jerry, is

Ta'n saagh crowal aym lane dy astanyn.

Bobby Bob

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 31-Mar-02.

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Philippa
Date: 09 Dec 98 - 05:24 PM

A funny coincidence about Bob's surname. I attended a talk by Mark Wringe about Seon Carsuel, John CARSWELL, who was responsible for the first printed book (as opposed to handwritten manuscripts) in Gaelic, a 1567 translation of John Knox's Book of Common Order. Carswell included a statement calling for the publication of the Bible andother books in the Gaelic of Scotland and Ireland as they were in Latin and English. Carswell had classical training, so he used the learned form of Gaelic rather than the common local speech, but because of this training he used proper Gaelic spelling rather than the 'Gaylick' which Gaelic speakers who had only learned to read and write in English wrote. So it may be thanks to Carswell that in Scotland we don't write as the Manx do. Of the three presently used systems, Scottish, Irish and Manx, my amateur opinion is that Scottish Gaelic orthography best represents the sounds of the language.

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 09 Dec 98 - 05:49 PM

We had Dr Nicholas Williams from UCD here for Feailley Ghaelgagh a week or so ago, and he mentioned an affinity with the 'Gaylick' spelling Philippa mentions.

As to Bishop John, I doubt very much my family claims descendency. I have a feeling they were sheep stealers who left Scotland and changed the name to protect the guilty somewhere along the line.

To Annraoi, I thought my reply to her question was lost during my period of strife, but actually it was posted to the Mrs McGrath thread, and read:

Shen kiart, Annraoi, as ta mee foast jannoo ny naightyn myr ayrn jeh'n chlaare aym fastyr Jedoonee er Radio Vannin, 'Claare ny Gael'.

Bobby Bob

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 10 Dec 98 - 11:52 AM

Thank you, Bobby Bob! I now have to learn Manx Gaelic so I'll be able to give your translation the laughter it deserves. But that's nothing to the time I now have to spend looking for an occasion to use that sentence.

Thanks also to everyone who has allowed me to interrupt this fascinating thread with trivialities.

Shoh slaynt, whatever that means,

Jerry

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: the doppelganger
Date: 10 Dec 98 - 03:39 PM

Subject: RE: Lyrics for Tzena, Tzena From: Jerry Friedman Date: 10-Dec-98 - 11:39 AM

Another treat, on a public-TV special, was Arlo Guthrie explaining this as a Gaelic folksong about sweet young Tsena Tsena Tsena Tsena, who is in love with "handsome, heavy-duty Alna Alna Alna Alna".

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Wallace
Date: 10 Dec 98 - 08:06 PM

Another heavy-handed Anglo-saxon attempt at wit. When willthey ever learn ? to coin a phrase. Wallace

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 10 Dec 98 - 10:52 PM

A Yiddish/Hebrew macaronic song that comes to my mind is "Lomir Alle Zingen a Zemerel" [Let's all sing a Zemer (Sabbath drinking song)]. The lyrics are in Yiddish, but give a translation and explanation of the the Hebrew song "Yom Zeh Mekhubad" {This is the Day Which Gives Honor]. Many of the words to the Hebrew song are embedded in the Yiddish, and the translation is largely comic. ("What does 'basar' [meat] mean? At the rich man's table, 'basar' is a slab of beef, but with us, 'basar' is a small taste in the middle of the stew." Likewise for "dagim" [fish] and "kol matamim" [all tasty foods]).

Jerry Epstein of New York sings some Yiddish/English macaronic songs, many of which came out of the Yiddish theatre as it adjusted to an audience that was learning English.

--Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 11 Dec 98 - 12:15 AM

Greetings:

You might want to check out "Perrie, Merrie, Dixi, Domini" in Linscotts Folk Songs of Old New England. It's a naive version of "The Riddle Song" with a corrupted Latin refrain line:

I had four brothers over the sea,
Perrie, Merrie, Dixi, Domini.
They each sent a present unto me.
Petrum, partrum, paradisi tempore,
Perrie, merrie, dixi, domini.

It goes on with such lines as "The first sent a cherry that had no stone. The second sent a chicken that had no bone." And so forth. Maybe Joe Offer, or one of the more experienced users of Digitrad, can help locate it here. I'm a novice who can only visit one area of the site at a time!

There's also a neat macaronic song in Chapell (is the book titled Popular Music of Olden Time?) called "We Be Soldiers Three." It alternates lines between English and French. My wife and I sing it, but I can't write the French, I'm afraid. I'm a high-school drop-out, still playing catch-up.(:-)) But it, too, may be in the Digitrad data base.

Sandy (Folk-Legacy's resident folk fogey)

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 11 Dec 98 - 12:21 AM

Oops! One of my "senior moments." I should have mentioned that Margaret MacArthur sings a version of the "Perrie, Merrie" riddle song. Hers, I think, is from the Flanders collection, slightly different from the Linscott version. Good though!

Sandy (again)

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Philippa
Date: 11 Dec 98 - 11:53 AM

Sandy - I remember that song! "We be soldiers three, Pardonnez moi, je vous en prie" - and it's in the DT (with only that line in French and not spelt Frenchly)

Jerry - Have you pondered the etymological connections between 'shalom', 'Shoh slaynt' and 'so long' - it's been good to know you

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Ralph Butts
Date: 11 Dec 98 - 02:39 PM

Freddy Fender's "Before the Next Teardrop Falls" alternates English and Spanish verses.

.....Tiger

Subject: Lyr Add: CIAD TURAS MHIC DHÒMHNAILL A GHLASCHU
From: Philippa
Date: 11 Dec 98 - 05:21 PM

Here's a Scottish Gaelic macaronic:
"CIAD TURAS MHIC DHÒMHNAILL A GHLASCHU" (Uilleam Marshall, an t-Eilean Sgitheanach)

When I came to Glasgow first
a-mach air tìr nan Gall
I was like a man adrift
Air iomrall 's dol air chall -
The noise it seemed like thunder,
chuir e tuainealaich nam cheann,
And oftentimes I wished I was
Air ais an tìr nam beann.

Am fuaim a bh'aig na tramway cars
Was rumbling in my ear,
Nuair chaidh mi sìos am Broomielaw
My eyes were full of tears,
Mi guidhe gun robh mi air ais
In my dear native home -
Gur truagh an nì gur Gàidheal mi
In Glasgow all alone.

Na fireannaich 's na boireannaich
Who met me on the way,
An dòigheanna cha do chòrd iad rium -
They had too much to say!
Bha cuid dhiubh ag iarraidh airgead orm
And when I said "clear away!"
Gun do chuir iad a-mach an teanga orm
And nasty things did say!

Thog sin suas mo nàdar-sa,
My temper it got wild -
Is chaidh mio sìos gun sgapainn iad
Along the banks of Clyde.
Fhuair mi gréim air balach dhiubh
And I tossed him round my head,
'S thilg mi ' meadhan na sràide e
And they picked him up for dead.

Thàining an sin am polasman
- a splendid man was he -
duine gasda spèisealta
belonging to Portree;
Thuirt e rium, "O òganaich,
Now what is all this row?"
"Chaidh iadsan riumsa a' connsachadh
and I will tell you how."

Thòisich mi ri innse dhà,
He had heard the likes before,
Is rinn e fead fa chompanach
Who stood across the road.
Thug e a-mach a leabhar
And pretended down to write
Mar a thòisich Iain Dòmhnallach
The lowlanders to fight.

Bha nàire mòr is mì-ghean orm
To be in such a fix.
Ach thuirt e rium, "On 's e Gàidheal thu,
You'll have to stop these tricks.
Fhalbh 's na dèan a leithid gu bràth
Just treat them with disdain,
Oir gu cinnteach cuiridh mis' thu an sàs
If you do the likes again."

Thug mi taing gu cridheil dha
And I went upon my way.
Tha iomadh bliadhn' on latha sin,
I'm in Glasgow till this day.
Faithnichidh mi gach cùil a th'ann
-I know my Glasgow well-
An coibhneas mòr rim choimhearsnach
I ever more shall dwell.

I expect Bobby Bob and Annraoi will understand this song okay. Others may be able to read between the lines, but in case not, I provide a summary. A young highlander goes to Glasgow and is rather homesick for the peace and quiet of his homeland. He loses his temper when one too many spongers ask him for money, and belts the beggar so hard that he kills them. Fortunately for the highlander, the policeman who arrives on the scene is a Gael from the Isle of Skye who lets the young man off with a warning not to do it again.

The song is usually sung to the same tune as "I met her in the garden where the praties go".

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 31-Mar-02.

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Annraoi
Date: 11 Dec 98 - 05:48 PM

a Philippa, thug tu an sway leat !!

That's just what I've been waiting for. Not great poetry, but comhartha go bhfuil an traidisiúin beo - the tradition is still alive out there.

Tuilleadh, le do thoil.

Ralph, Where might I lay hands on the Sp / Eng song or even a recording thereof ?

Other folks , Keep them macaronics rolling.

Annraoi

Subject: Lyr Add: MAIDRIN RUADH
From: johnm
Date: 11 Dec 98 - 08:44 PM

I dont have the Irish for this but Mary Ohara's Maidrin Ruadi is described as an example of a Macronic song, so I would think is In Dulci Jublio by Michael Pretorius , a classic Christmas song, and so is the classic Jewish joke

Oedipus Schmoedipus--what's it matter so long as he loves his mother.

Here is the English of MAIDRIN RUADH (The Little Fox)

The little red fox,
The little red fox so ugly
The little red fox lying among the rushes
And the top of his two ears sticking up

VERSE 1 As I was walking up over Sliabh Luachra

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 31-Mar-02.

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: johnm
Date: 11 Dec 98 - 09:02 PM

Have no idea why this happened.

PICK UP
Coming up I noticed a little red fox CHORUS

2 (In English) Good morrow fox, good morrow sir
Pray what is it that you're 'ating?"
"A fine fat goose I stole from you,
And will you come and taste it?"
"O no, indeed (Gaelic) I do not want it,
I wouldn't taste a pick of it,
(In English) But I vow and swear, you'll dearly pay
For that fine fat goose you're 'ating it." CHORUS

3 Hark, jhark Finder Lily and Piper.
Gather the dogs together.
Hark, hark, Truman, you lazy hound.
Bateman, you're a good dog,
Tally ho, on the scent, tally ho, on the scent,
Tally ho, on the scent, little puppies
Tally ho, on the scent, tally ho, on the scent,
And the top of his two ears sticking up. CHORUS

4 A distressed an sore heart to you, you bad fox
That took from me my, lovely, flock of geese,
My fine big cock, my beautiful hens,
Any my nicest ducks in the whole of Ireland. CHORUS

IN DULCI JUBLILO

This is available everywhere.

In dulci jubilo,nun singet und seid froh,
unsers Herzens Wonne,
leit in praesepio, und leuchtet als die Sonne,
matris in gremio, Alpha es et O.

O Jesu parvule,, nache dir ist mir so weh,
trost mir mein Gemuete,
o puer optime, durch alle deine Guete,
o princeps gloriae, trahe me post te.

O Patris caritas, o nati lenitas,
wir warn all verloren,
per nostra crimina, so hat er uns erwoben,
coelorum gaudia, eia waern wir da.

Ubi sunt gaudia, nirgends mehr denn da,
da die Engel singen,
nova cantica, und e Schellen klingen,
in Regis curia, eia warn wir da.

Forgive all the duplications above
If you want a translation of this I will post it tomorrow

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 31-Mar-02.

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Barbara
Date: 12 Dec 98 - 09:36 AM

There is also an English/Latin version of "In Dulce Jubilo" to be found in the Oxford Book of Carols. It is a glorious song for the harmony and counterpoint. I believe the arrangement is Bach. (so the German/latin words above would be the first version)
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Philippa
Date: 12 Dec 98 - 12:20 PM

Does 'French at Killyloo' (separate thread) qualify?

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Annraoi
Date: 12 Dec 98 - 03:31 PM

Not for me, sweetheart. Peppering foreign words throughout a text doesn't count. They have to add to the content in a meaningful way. Annraoi

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Annraoi
Date: 12 Dec 98 - 03:37 PM

a Philippa, Bhí mé cinéal giorraisc. Gabh mo leithscéal, a stór. Shíl mé nach raibh tú le cuairt a thabhairt orainn go dtí i ndiaidh na Nollag ?!!! Just couldnt stay away, huh?.

Nollaig shona agus Aithbhliain faoi mhaise duit, agus do Chaoimhín Ó Donnaille, agus do Iain Mac a' Phearsain, agus do Mharc fosta. Nach bhfuil sé ag caint liom níos mó ? Annraoi

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: Wolfgang Hell
Date: 12 Dec 98 - 03:54 PM

does anybody have more of the lyrics for Mary OHara's Maidrin Ruadh, mentioned by johnm above?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: a short story made long
Date: 13 Dec 98 - 05:06 AM

"One young kingfisher once caught a stickleback in front of my hide and after a very superficial attempt to kill it preceded to try and swallow it. When the fish was half swallowed and still thrashing it became stuck. For 15 minutes the young bird tried to regurgitate the fish, shaking its head and wrenching at the fish, but it was stuck. By the time the bird managed to swallow the fish it had begun to shiver and sway on the perch. It had come very close to death and it was probably only the fact that the stickleback had suffocated whilst in its throat that saved it. I watched the same bird catch a stickleback the next day; it spent two or three minutes smashing the fish's head against the perch, killing it several times over, before swallowing it!" Charlie Hamilton James. Grantown-on-Spey: Colin Baxter Photography, 1987

Subject: continuation
From: Philippa
Date: 13 Dec 98 - 05:25 AM

Excuse me, I pressed the wrong keys; I wasn't finished with the story. I just want you to understand why I didn't take down much or the song below; I was reading the above book with Celtic Connections playing in the background on BBC Radio Scotland. I was thinking about this example of bird learning (as opposed to instinct)and about the ambiguity of the penultimate sentence, and so on when I noticed the use of Irish in Bing Crosby's song "A Little Bit of Irish". Not a true macaronic of the type you require, Annraoi, but maybe something a bit like "Lomir Alle Zingen a Zemerel" as Charlie Baum describes it. The chorus goes:"Céad mile fáilte/Sláinte to you/And the top of the morning too" and the one verse I noted had something about "It's great how they greet you in Ireland...Learn the words so you won't have to guess"

Wolfgang - I might be able to get you lyrics, but it won't be right away so I hope someone beats me to it Annraoi - yes, Mudcat is addictive and it's even bringing on a multiple personality disorder. Anyway I keep looking for messages from you! It's good that I will soon have a break from the web. Caoimhin knows all about my habits, but don't tell Iain and Mark. I've heard the Glasgow song a few times on Radio nan Gaedheal and live at sessions, but I haven't heard other Scottish Gaelic macaronics nor seen any published in books or in an Tocher. Your best bet would probably be the School of Scottish Studies archives - I've given you a start with the Ross references. You could also try Martainn Mac an t-Saoir, who is archivist for the new Dualchas project at Sabhal Mòr Ostaig.

Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 Dec 98 - 09:49 AM

Viva La Companie!

We have a serious problem with orthography, since my personal knowledge of, say, Gaelic (any flavor) is nil. As a consequence, I have to accept what's submitted.

Any suggestions?