guitar miking question

Subject: guitar miking question
From: mkebenn
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 08:20 AM

MY MARTIN IS DONE! Bridge reseated, and new bone nut installed. The tech says she sounds wonderfull(well, he would, wouldn't he). However, her passive pickup is shot. Options: new passive unit, full onboard electronics(would require cutting to mount controls, which I can't stomach) or the old fashioned way, seperate guitar mike. I never was happy with the passive unit anyway, so I'm leaning toward the last choice. Question for those who use outboard mikes, what brand and model sugestions? I use a Shure SM59 for vocals, but I'm hoping not to have to buy another quite so expensive. Also, would you use the better of two mikes for voice of guitar? Thanks as always for your imput. Mike

Subject: RE: guitar miking question
From: Leadfingers
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 08:25 AM

Microvox do a very high quality instrument mic which velcros on to the
guitar with a 'gooseneck' to direct the mic in the most favourable direction - Means you are not tied to one spot with a seperate mic and gives very good sound quality , though I must admit can give feed back if the overall PA sound is set too high !!

Subject: RE: guitar miking question
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 08:36 AM

Consider the Baggs dual source. It has a ribbon transducer and an inboard mic. I use it in the "stereo" mode so I have a separate constrol for the mic and the transducer. This requires a Y style cord. One thing to do is to make sure the mic channel isn't run through the monitors in order to limit chances for feedback. The controls mount on the edge of the soundhole, no cutting involved other than changing the endpin jack.

Mick

Subject: RE: guitar miking question
From: rhyzla
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 08:37 AM

Consider the cost of your Martin guitar, and ask yourself why it isn't worth spending a bit more to get a good enough mic to do it justice!!

Just a thought :-)

Subject: RE: guitar miking question
From: mooman
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 08:38 AM

I use Shure SM58 mikes (more or less a "standard") for my instruments without pickups.

Have you considered a PUTW 27 mounted internally under the bridge with a PUTW Powerplug (endpin-plugged external preamp)? My custom Lakewood sounds better with that setup than it does miked.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: guitar miking question
From: open mike
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 11:22 AM

there is an internal mike...not a transducer pick up--
which is used alot around here...used to be made by
mini-flex....but now manufactured under a new name..
it is a small low impedance omni-directional mike
http://www.acousticon.com/soundholemicsl.htm
now made by GHS i think...

Subject: RE: guitar miking question
From: just john
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 11:38 AM

_{(Cripes, I'm having a bunch of senior moments today ... probably need glasses or something. First, I keep reading "Shawl in Auction" as "Shawl in Action," now I read this thread's title as "guitar milking question.")}

Subject: RE: guitar miking question
From: mandotim
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 02:21 PM

One way to go might be a decent quality condenser microphone, rather than a dynamic mic like the SM58 and the like. I've used an AKG C1000S for mandolin; not too expensive, robust and decent sound quality. Needs a 9v battery, or will work off phantom power. Simon Mayor uses condensers rather than pickups, and gets great tone on mandolin and guitar. Check out ebay, there are usually quite a few around.
Tim from Bit on the Side

Subject: RE: guitar miking question
From: 14fret
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 07:34 PM

Acoustic Guitar Mag' did a survey and the most favoured (road( mic for guitar was the SM57.
So many PU's these days.... Do you have a local, friendly store who will let you try a selection instore?

Personally, I prefer using PU (not undersaddle), and mic.

Subject: RE: guitar miking question
From: mooman
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 04:01 AM

14fret,

Brain fart here! Of course I meant the SM57 for instruments. We use the SM58s for vocals! (all these numbers and encroaching senility!) Thanks for the post and correction!

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: guitar miking question
From: ddw
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 07:33 PM

Mkebenn,

I think you've already had some pretty good advice re the SM57s and SM58s — pretty well industry standards for gigging because they have very good sound and are virtually indestructible. The 2 cents worth I wanted to add is that positioning of the mic on the guitar is as important — if not more so — than the mic type. The SM57s and '58s are almost exactly the same in responses, but the '57 has a smaller "hot" cone, so it isn't as likely to produce feedback and is better for instruments. The trick, though, particularly with bass-boomy Martins, is to aim the mic at a point halfway between the sound hole and the 14th fret (where the neck and body meet). Some people say you should aim it just below the fretboard, but I haven't found it makes much difference. The important thing is to not aim it AT the sound hole, which produces very strong low tones that wash out the trebles.

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: guitar miking question
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 11:23 PM

Why not use an active transducer (e.g. Fishman Matrix) which has an endpin-mounted pre-amp and no on-board controls - I use a Pro-Fx II outboard EQ unit. Fix the battery-holder to the bass (i.e. 'top') side of the neck-block with heavy-duty velcro (that way you don't have to drill the block and you don't hide the Martin logo and serial no.

Better still, use a blender system, get the best of both worlds?
S:0)

Subject: RE: guitar miking question
From:
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 05:50 PM

Picked the Martin up yesterday. The Tech did a wonderful job, she sounds beautifull. I was all set to buy a Shure SM58 to use with her, but the Tech sugested a Dimarzio magnetic sound hole pickup. Put it in for the first time this morning, and I'm quite happy with the sound. It does seem to need alot of gain on my P.A. amp, but doesn't seem to generate noise, so I guess, so what. Thanks to all who responded..Mike

Subject: RE: guitar miking question
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 06:19 PM

I must admit to a level of confusion ! WHY have a decent acoustic Guitar and then fit a pick up to make it sound like an ELECTRIC guitar ? At least a built in transducer sounds more acoustic !!

Subject: RE: guitar miking question
From:
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 07:25 PM

Leadfingers. The passive unit I had never sounded right, and
I didn't want the controls mounted on the sides of the guitar. Played through my Sunn P.A. system it sounds nothing like my electric does.
Sounds much mellower than my Seagull with factory electronics. I was surprised, because I expected more electric feel to the sound. Mike

Subject: RE: guitar miking question
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 08:40 PM

Fair enough Mike - I have Ashworth in my D35 and Fishman in my Tanglewood - Both work , though I would stick with Microvox as a Non built in means of amplifying a decent acoustic . Enjoy playing any way !!

Subject: RE: guitar miking question
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 19 Mar 05 - 03:34 AM

Leadfingers - soundhole pickups don't have to sound electric! I've got a Fishman Rare Earth which I had on my first Lowden - I objected to the 'look' of it so had a Fishman under-saddle transducer fitted. Result - bitter disappointment! The Rare Earth sounded far more 'acoustic' than the transducer, but as with all pickups you need to work with your EQ to optimise the sound (the usual reason for the 'electric' sound being too much Middle). The guitar looked better though! :-)
S:0)