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Loyalist songs

GUEST,Willy McBoyne 17 Mar 05 - 05:37 AM
MartinRyan 17 Mar 05 - 06:00 AM
Dave Earl 17 Mar 05 - 06:02 AM
Wrinkles 17 Mar 05 - 06:26 AM
GUEST,Paul Burke 17 Mar 05 - 07:27 AM
Snuffy 17 Mar 05 - 08:41 AM
PeteBoom 17 Mar 05 - 09:32 AM
GUEST,JTT 17 Mar 05 - 03:42 PM
PoppaGator 17 Mar 05 - 04:14 PM
GUEST,eoin o'buadhaigh 17 Mar 05 - 05:03 PM
Charmion 17 Mar 05 - 05:17 PM
The Curator 17 Mar 05 - 05:21 PM
dick greenhaus 17 Mar 05 - 05:35 PM
PoppaGator 17 Mar 05 - 06:01 PM
Snuffy 17 Mar 05 - 07:25 PM
alanabit 18 Mar 05 - 02:06 AM
Big Tim 18 Mar 05 - 02:26 AM
Boab 18 Mar 05 - 03:29 AM
GUEST,eoin o'buadhaigh 18 Mar 05 - 07:06 AM
GUEST,Philippa 18 Mar 05 - 08:11 AM
GUEST 18 Mar 05 - 08:56 AM
GUEST 18 Mar 05 - 11:08 AM
GUEST,PoppaGator 18 Mar 05 - 01:34 PM
Big Tim 18 Mar 05 - 02:06 PM
GUEST 18 Mar 05 - 02:14 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 19 Mar 05 - 07:07 AM
Jimmy C 19 Mar 05 - 05:21 PM
GUEST,Toowtie 20 Mar 05 - 12:53 AM
Big Tim 20 Mar 05 - 02:29 AM
GUEST,Toowtie 21 Mar 05 - 12:18 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 21 Mar 05 - 02:24 PM
GUEST 21 Mar 05 - 10:00 PM
michaelr 22 Mar 05 - 01:08 AM
belfast 22 Mar 05 - 04:26 PM
GUEST,Toowtie 22 Mar 05 - 09:02 PM
Big Tim 23 Mar 05 - 04:02 AM
GUEST,Willy McBoyne 23 Mar 05 - 07:29 AM
MartinRyan 23 Mar 05 - 07:31 AM
Big Tim 23 Mar 05 - 08:37 AM
Big Al Whittle 24 Mar 05 - 02:48 AM
GUEST,eoin o'buadhaigh 24 Mar 05 - 05:45 AM
MartinRyan 24 Mar 05 - 06:38 AM
GUEST,Philippa 24 Mar 05 - 07:01 AM
GUEST,eoin o'buadhaigh 24 Mar 05 - 07:11 AM
GUEST,mick 24 Mar 05 - 08:40 AM
GUEST,Uncle Jaque 24 Mar 05 - 01:01 PM
Big Al Whittle 24 Mar 05 - 03:34 PM
GUEST,Rob H 05 Jan 10 - 10:24 AM
GUEST 05 Jan 10 - 10:27 AM
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Subject: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,Willy McBoyne
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 05:37 AM

It's easy to find Irish rebel songs, but where can I find Protestant Loyalist songs?


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: MartinRyan
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 06:00 AM

Use the "lyrics and knowledge" search box at the top of the page, with "loyalist songs" or "orange songs" as the search term. That will bring you to some threads with both discussion and links to other resources.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 06:02 AM

I found The Old Orange Flute and The Sash my Father Wore in the DT.

There are probably more to be found my typing in the title.

But your granny may already know how to suck eggs!!:-)

Dave Earl


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: Wrinkles
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 06:26 AM

There was a Belfast group in the 70/80s that did very obscure and quite surprisingly lovley "orange" tunes and songs called "Hol yer wish" (SP?) comprising three members who played Bodhran, guitar, fiddle, and whistle and released an LP with the same name. Tommy Sands gave it quite a few spins on his Downtown Radio show.

It's well worth a listen if you can find a copy.

Wrinkles


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 07:27 AM

Battle of Garvagh is in Digitrad.

Also I remember bits of this one (tune Mountains of Mourne):

There's a rusty old steamer on a far distant shore
And we hope she'll sail into Larne harbour once more.
Her name's the Clyde Valley, and a proud ship was she
For she helped to keep Ulster both British and free.

The Liberals in England in 1913
Said "Home Rule for Ireland, we'll wash our hands clean",
But Edward Lord Carson took a far different course,
And he helped to set up Ulster's volunteer force.

Much more similar doggerel, you can see why Orange songs aren't as popular with outsiders as the Nationalist ones.


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: Snuffy
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 08:41 AM

A regular visitor here and poster of Orange songs is Conrad Bladey, who uses the handle "*#1 PEASANT*" Put that into search and you should find loads of stuff. He also has a website I believe


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: PeteBoom
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 09:32 AM

Protestant Boys, Lillibullero and others are in the DT. Far better than the stuff Paul Burke cited. However, for every "rebel" song that is not worth singing, there is a "loyalist" one as well. Likewise, I suspect that for everyone that has some worth, there is one balancing it.

I could be wrong, but I don't think so...

Pete


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 03:42 PM

Lots of Orange songs are sung by republicans, by the way.


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: PoppaGator
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 04:14 PM

Are Loyalists celebrating St. Patrick's Day today? Or do they feel a need to "counter-celebrate"?

Just an ignorant Irish-American, wondering how and why this came up on this particular date...


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,eoin o'buadhaigh
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 05:03 PM

course, poppagator, both sides celebrate St Pat, do ya think we are all heathens over here?
any excuse for a few pints, a few songs and for the ones who have too many pints, a few fights!
Jazes man what better way to enjoy yersel.

cheers eoin


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: Charmion
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 05:17 PM

This morning I did not put on the first thing my hand fell on in the shirt drawer -- the orange one. I didn't think it quite the thing to wear with blue jeans today.


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: The Curator
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 05:21 PM

A large stall at Nutts Corner market close to Belfast International Airport sells a large selection of discs, tapes and records of all Loyalist bands.


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 05:35 PM

If you're searching the DT try a search for @Irish @Protestant


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: PoppaGator
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 06:01 PM

Hey, eoin, glad to hear that all sides can agree on the great Saint himself and that you're not heathens. Thanks for the answer, enjoy yer pints, and if ye get in a fight, here's hoping that all escape unscathed!


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE ORANGE AND THE GREEN
From: Snuffy
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 07:25 PM

THE ORANGE AND THE GREEN

Quite a few corrections (in bold type)

Oh my father was an Orangeman, proud Protestant was he
My mother was a Catholic girl, from county Cork came she
They were married in two churches,lived happily enough
Until the day that I was born then things got rather tough

CHORUS:
Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen
My father he was Orange and my mother she was Green

Baptized by father Reilly, and rushed away by car
To become a little Orangeman, before the shining star
I was christened David Anthony but still in spite of that
To my father I was Billy while my mother called me Pat

Now, with mother every Sunday to Mass we'd proudly stroll
And later on the Orange lodge would try to save my soul
Both sides they tried to claim me but I was cute because
I'd play me flute or play me harp depending where I was

Now, when I'd sing those rebel songs 'twould fill my mother's joy
My father would jump up and say ""Now look here Bill me boy
That's enough of that stuff, he'd be tossin' me a coin
To sing about the Orange Flute and the heroes of the Boyne

Well, one day my father's kinfolk, they came to visit me
Just as my mother's relatives were sittin' down to tea
I tried to calm things over but they soon began to fight
And me bein' strictly neutral I punched everyone in sight

Well, my parents they would not agree about my kind of school
My learnin' was all done at home, no wonder I'm a fool
Now they've both passed on God bless them but they left me caught between
That awful colour problem of the Orange and the Green


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 02:06 AM

That is hilarious. I will keep that one!


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: Big Tim
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 02:26 AM

Belfast City Council refused to support the St. Patrick's Day Concert, because, they said, it was too republican: a sea of tricolours and Celtic Football Club and Republic of Ireland football tops. This was certainly confirmed by last night's tv pictures.

In Derry, the celebrations were more inclusive and more cross cultural.

The Ulster Society has published two books of loyalist songs

1. The Orange Lark (40 songs).

2. Lilliburlero (41 songs).

Some of these are quite sectarian, many less so. May now be out of print, but if not, try Easons.


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: Boab
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 03:29 AM

The Grehan Sisters [sp?] do a great version of the "Orange and the Green" . I have it on cassette somewhere-------where?---dammit!


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,eoin o'buadhaigh
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 07:06 AM

Thanks Poppagator for taking that as a joke,(as it was ment) some folk nowadays could easily have taken offence at my reply.
I have in my collection a few books of orange and protestant songs and the best of them is a small paperback (orange in colour) called:
A Collection of Orange and Protestant Songs compiled and arranged by Willam Peake, Downpatrick. There are 103 songs in this little book, printed and published by William Bridgett and sons 106 Great Victoria St, Belfast.
When collecting traditional songs, you don't judge, they are all important.
I hope everyone enjoyed Saint Patrick's day (I had to work) but today I'm setting off for Ballyliffin in good old Donegal for a weekend of singing and pints of the black stuff. I'll drink to your health Poppagator!
       cheers eoin


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 08:11 AM

"In Derry, the celebrations were more inclusive and more cross cultural." : included a Chinese dragon dance, samba, giant puppets
but still a sea of green, Celtic t-shirts, etc. Strangely, very few at the Guildhall céilí sported the colours

Wrinkles, "Hol yer wish" would be "houl' yer whist" (houl' meaning hold), as in "be quiet"


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 08:56 AM

Ah, that would have been "cross-cultural" in Irish terms--the one where the Twa Trad Proddies still protest against all things Irish and refuse to participate, right?

You can have all the Chinese dragons at the festivities you want, but the loyalists and unionists still don't join in, now do they? No, they don't. They are too busy holding press conferences denouncing their fellow countrymen, holding court in London and Washington denouncing their fellow countrymen, and practicing up for marching season.


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 11:08 AM

Which of course are far more heinous crimes than killing your co-religionists for looking in an unapproved manner and covering up the evidence


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,PoppaGator
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 01:34 PM

I was at work meself yesterday, but have been celebrating St. Patrick's "season" for more than a week and intend to continue this one final remaining weekend.

I'm glad for all the Irish and Irish wannabees, worldwide, who have been able to join in good times and celebration. But my heart hurts for those who can't or won't due to hatred and sectarianism, whether on the part of their neighbors or themselves.


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: Big Tim
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 02:06 PM

Thank you GUEST for your mono-cultural opinion.


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 02:14 PM

Oh get off yer high horses. Loyalist thugs killed an RUC man by kicking him to death outside a pub a few years back, with no one coming forward, just like this latest case. You didn't see his relatives paraded around Whitehall, Westminster, and the White House, now did you?

It has nothing to do with monoculture, it has to do with a double standard over people being killed in pub brawls in the two communities where loyalists and republicans congregate.

In other words, this whole bullshit "scandal" over the pub murder is being used as yet another excuse to bury the peace process, which the unionists, loyalists, and the British paramilitaries and politicians never intended to reach fruition anyway.


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 19 Mar 05 - 07:07 AM

All the Loyalist, orange, Unionist songs you ever may want.

Just another grand tradition- as a scholar to be fair I celebrate them both.

One just cant celebrate March 17 without also celebrating the 12th of July.

The songs are just as good.

Here is my book of orange songs on line....have fun!

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5567/ooooo.html

Conrad


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: Jimmy C
Date: 19 Mar 05 - 05:21 PM

I spent St. Pat's night singing to a mixed crowd in Ontario and there was no animosity, provided you steer clear of "party songs". Last night I played to another crowd( all catholic' again no out
and out republican songs , just good folk songs from Ireland, Scotlnd, Canada, America, England etc. Tonight I'm off to perform at a Newfoundland Dinner and I don't know what to expect except good food, good company among the friendliest people on the planet.

As an aside the main difference between Rebel Songs and Loyalist songs is that a great percentage of Rebel Songs are Pro-Irish whereas a great percentage of Loyalist songs are Anti-catholic.


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,Toowtie
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 12:53 AM

I need to find the sheet music to French's "Phil the Fluther's Ball" immeidately. Does anyone have a copy of the book "Songs of Percy French" edited by James N. Healy of which I cannot order ANYWHERE! Can anyone help me?


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: Big Tim
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 02:29 AM

Toowtie, if you post your email, I'll send it to you. (I managed to buy that book quite recently, either on Amazon or ABE, can't recall which).


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,Toowtie
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 12:18 PM

Thank you, thank you, thank you: Toowtie@yahoo.com


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 02:24 PM

loyalist-unionist-orange

related but not the same

songs can be pro anything they want to be!

if they are good songs for my ears at the time thats what I want!
not necessary to exclude any of them really.....

CB


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 10:00 PM

Lambeg tunes are an endangered species!
C.H.

p.s. Lots of Protestants, Lots of Catholics, Precious few Christians!


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 01:08 AM

DON'T POST YOUR EMAIL!


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: belfast
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 04:26 PM

My own copy of Healy's book of Percy French songs is old and crumbling but if you take this ISBN number
0 85342 394 6
to Abebooks.com you will find a couple of copies.


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,Toowtie
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 09:02 PM

why not? I am new at this I didn't think it would be a problem?


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: Big Tim
Date: 23 Mar 05 - 04:02 AM

The reason is that it could can lead to unsolicited hate mail, especially re controversial topics. Joe Offer posted of just such a recent incident.

But not, I think, with Percy French!


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,Willy McBoyne
Date: 23 Mar 05 - 07:29 AM

It looks like that Rebel songs are freely available on Amazon and in record shops, from The Pogues to Christie Moore, but loyalist records are rare commodities indeed. A shame, as it would be nice to hear the other side of the argument.


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: MartinRyan
Date: 23 Mar 05 - 07:31 AM

Big Tim

That reminds me.... Have you read French's arrranger/composer Collisson's description of his tour of Ireland at the beginning of the 20th. C.?

Regards


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: Big Tim
Date: 23 Mar 05 - 08:37 AM

Martin: yes. I have Collisson's book: fascinating.

Willy: Christy Moore, yes. Pogues, no. I have all their albums (6) and there's not one rebel song there. ("Birmingham Six" is a song about a grave injustice, not rebellion).

The loyalist/unionist cultural and political perspective, I agree, deserves more coverage. But's that's to the l/u people to do so. I think it boils down to two things, 1, some of the l/u stuff is sectarian, and 2, the l/u's don't have as many sympathisers either wihin or outside of Ireland: smaller market.

In recent years I've noticed a growth of interest in Ulster Scots history and culture. Two albums by a band called "Ailsa" are worth seeking out. These are totally non-sectarian, being mainly the setting to music of a selection of the works of the 19th century Ulster Scots poets.


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 02:48 AM

theres a very good record store in Port Rush called Grahams, they've got most things. you could phone them up and ask.

I saw a double cd of loyalist stuff on a market stall in Derby,if you want I could check and see if they've still got it, and post it to you. I seem to remember it was on a budget label.

if you're really interested why not e mail the political parties and say you're interested, I'm sure they would have somebody interested in their cultural artefacts and bits and bobs.

then you could have an evening at your folk club, like that scene in casablanca where both sides try to drown each others anthems out.

the free french win of course....!


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,eoin o'buadhaigh
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 05:45 AM

Willy McBoyne I am just back from a singing weekend in Ballyliffin and orange songs were sung amidst others! The Bold Orange heros of Comber springs to mind and I might add NOT sung by a protestant. Though I dont understand why it should be an issue, most (if not ALL) traditional singers dont sing songs (of any description) that might offend other singers in their company. When singers meet, either at a session or singing gathering it's like a family reunion, would you sing something to offend any of your family?
A traditional ballad from either side is acceptable at any session, but not if it is intended to stir up trouble or hurt someone.
Dolly's Brae is a great traditional ballad, The Hills of Carrowdore, The Defence of Crossgar to mention a few that that I have heard sung at sessions, so I don't know where you are coming from.
cheers eoin


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: MartinRyan
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 06:38 AM

Sorry to miss Ballyliffin this year. I suspect I can guess who sang the Bold Orange Heroes...and probably guess what the song was that preceded it!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 07:01 AM

Seán Mone?
I didn't see him there, but only stopped for Sat afternoon


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,eoin o'buadhaigh
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 07:11 AM

Yes it was Sean, his party piece!
Great session on Saturday night and Sunday, though Friday night was a bit noisey due to a couple of wedding parties going on at the same time.
       eoin


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,mick
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 08:40 AM

I suggested a while back on Mudcat that The Rocks Of Bawn might be a loyalist song . The suggestion didn't go down very well .There are lots of Loyalist songs in Sam Henry's "Songs of the People" and
many songs you would consider Rebel that are given a Loyalist setting .I don't know which versions came first. In Henry's version of An Irish Soldier Boy the boy dies fighting abroad with the British army not in Ireland fighting to free his native land.


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,Uncle Jaque
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 01:01 PM

An Ancestor - James ADAMS - was a "Loyalist Scot" who came up on the losing end of the Battle of Dunbar in 1650.
They sent him over to Saugus Mass. as an indentured servant, where he worked at the Iron Works until it went belly-up several years later.

Somehow I think this conversation is about another place, another time... Although I've often wondered what kind of songs he might have sung.


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 03:34 PM

Not really on the subject I know, but does anybody else remember that song Mike and Peggy Seeger used to do, The Popish lady.

i wonder what the provenance of that was, I never thought to ask - sounded Appalachian....maybe I'm wrong.


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST,Rob H
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 10:24 AM

Im looking for a song called "The Court" i think its to the tune of the Borstal Boy.
I'm Looking for it for my nephews funeral who was murdered in Glasgows East End on Xmas Night.
Cheers Rob Hamilton


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Subject: RE: Loyalist songs
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 10:27 AM

Looking for a song called "The Court" I think its to the tune of Borstal Boy.
I'm looking to get it for my nephews funeral who was murdered in The East End of Glasgow on Xmas night.
Hope someone can help
Thanks Rob Hamilton. Glasgow


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