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BS: Mudcatters supporting murder

Ebbie 25 Mar 05 - 11:07 PM
Troll 25 Mar 05 - 10:58 PM
Alba 25 Mar 05 - 10:53 PM
GUEST,Diogenes 25 Mar 05 - 10:48 PM
Once Famous 25 Mar 05 - 10:43 PM
GUEST,Diogenes 25 Mar 05 - 10:40 PM
GUEST,Diogenes 25 Mar 05 - 10:37 PM
katlaughing 25 Mar 05 - 10:35 PM
Once Famous 25 Mar 05 - 10:35 PM
GUEST,Diogenes 25 Mar 05 - 10:32 PM
Once Famous 25 Mar 05 - 09:39 PM
GUEST 25 Mar 05 - 07:13 PM
GUEST,the shrink 25 Mar 05 - 06:46 PM
Bunnahabhain 25 Mar 05 - 06:41 PM
Once Famous 25 Mar 05 - 06:02 PM
GUEST 25 Mar 05 - 05:54 PM
Ebbie 25 Mar 05 - 04:37 PM
GUEST 25 Mar 05 - 04:22 PM
Ebbie 25 Mar 05 - 03:50 PM
Once Famous 25 Mar 05 - 03:41 PM
LilyFestre 25 Mar 05 - 03:23 PM
GUEST,Guy Who Thinks 25 Mar 05 - 02:53 PM
Once Famous 25 Mar 05 - 02:47 PM
DougR 25 Mar 05 - 02:06 PM
GUEST,Guy Who Thinks 25 Mar 05 - 01:27 PM
GUEST,Guy Who Thinks 25 Mar 05 - 01:05 PM
GUEST 25 Mar 05 - 11:52 AM
EagleWing 25 Mar 05 - 11:34 AM
GUEST 25 Mar 05 - 11:33 AM
robomatic 25 Mar 05 - 11:21 AM
EagleWing 25 Mar 05 - 10:59 AM
EagleWing 25 Mar 05 - 10:52 AM
Kim C 25 Mar 05 - 10:10 AM
GUEST 25 Mar 05 - 06:52 AM
kendall 25 Mar 05 - 06:51 AM
Joe Offer 25 Mar 05 - 01:22 AM
Lonesome EJ 25 Mar 05 - 01:21 AM
GUEST,Japonica 25 Mar 05 - 01:16 AM
CarolC 25 Mar 05 - 12:37 AM
DougR 25 Mar 05 - 12:16 AM
CarolC 24 Mar 05 - 10:46 PM
Amos 24 Mar 05 - 10:24 PM
Once Famous 24 Mar 05 - 10:10 PM
Rustic Rebel 24 Mar 05 - 08:17 PM
GUEST 24 Mar 05 - 08:16 PM
GUEST 24 Mar 05 - 08:09 PM
DougR 24 Mar 05 - 08:01 PM
Big Al Whittle 24 Mar 05 - 07:53 PM
EagleWing 24 Mar 05 - 07:29 PM
GUEST,the shrink 24 Mar 05 - 07:26 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 11:07 PM

As you all know, I have not been ignoring Marvin (He can have the name 'Gibson' but he does not merit any Martin) because I believe that ignoring his presence when he has infested so many threads is giving him more power than I am willing to grant him. It is true that if we *all* ignored his posts he'd probably eventually give up, but it is not likely that we would do that and it could take literally weeks. He has a lot of time on his hands.

He doesn't hurt my feelings- how could he! He is a humorless garbage digger who doesn't have any creativity in him worthy of the name. But I have decided to treat him like anyone else here- if I feel so inclined I will respond to him. When I don't, I won't.

Besides I sometimes like to push his button. (Is your wife hanging over your shoulder, Marvin, and admiring your way with words?)
    OK, I suppose it's time to close this one, too. If you people insist on responding to him, he's going to keep provoking you. Leave him alone. You, too, Ebbie.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Troll
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 10:58 PM

I wonder how many of those who want to "save Terri from being murdered" Have a Living Will.

Wouldn't demanding that heroic life-saving methods NOT be used be a form of self-murder or suicide?

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Alba
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 10:53 PM

Diogenes and any other Folks.....take the advice DNR.....best solution..:>)


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST,Diogenes
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 10:48 PM

Obviously there's an imposter here. 10:37 PM is not me. Sounds like Martin's style.

Slow day, you say? What was the matter? Not enough septic tanks to pump out?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 10:43 PM

Uh, wrong Dog shit brains. Had a slow day at work today. Needed a little entertainment. I am having fun.

You're pretty bent out of shape. Get help, loser.

And get help for those hemmoroids from your greek friends poking your butt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST,Diogenes
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 10:40 PM

You've been here ladling out your sewage since noon, twinky-brain. Now, who's the one who's obsessed?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST,Diogenes
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 10:37 PM

You are right. I am obsessed with Martin Gibson. I am also obsessed with horse testicles and the fallopian tubes of mice.

I admit it, I do like to lick my own penis.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 10:35 PM

DNR(Do Not Respond) works best, folks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 10:35 PM

And you keep coming back for more, Dog Genes.

What else are you obsessed with?

Get help.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST,Diogenes
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 10:32 PM

GUEST 07:13 PM, good questions all. I often ask myself that. In the 3D world, anyone who behaved the way Martin Gibson behaves would be grabbed by the seat of the pants and the scruff of the neck and hurled bodily out the door and into the nearest dust bin. He behaves this way here, behind the anonymity of a pseudonym, because he can let his true personality and character loose without fear of real, physically painful consequences. GUEST,shrink has his true measure, I believe.

Martin Gibson is a bully and a coward. He is also shallow and a bit stupid. He keeps recycling the same insults. No creativity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 09:39 PM

Bunny baby. I started this thread. It's mine. don't tell me to get out. What are you, a nun? Oh, I'm so offended! Sheesh!

My remark toward Ebbie cowardly guest, was the least I could do to respond to Ebbie's personal attack to my wife, who she doesn't know and doesn't post here. She is at this time, quite an engouraged and herpes infested, flowing female genitalia in my book at this time.

Most of my remarks are just responses to insults aimed at me. I just like to hit back harder. Seems to work OK.

Power? How can anyone have any power in this ridiculous format? You either ignore what you don't like and walk away. Get off. The ones who are insecure you phony piece of shit shrink are the ones like yourself who just can't deal with someone challanging their one-sided train of thought and get bent out of shape when someone, like myself, tells them they are full of crap.

Or, who just can't take everything that is discussed so seriously.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 07:13 PM

I thought personal attacks against other members were always deleted. So how is it that Martin Gibson still exists here?

I mean, repeatedly calling Ebbie a cunt isn't a personal attack?

When did the Mudcat rules change, and why in god's name were they changed to accomodate this depraved, tortured person?

    Yes, and thank you very much for repeating that remark, which was made twice, as far as I can determine. It was in a thread that was closed and that has dropped off the menu. It was in this thread, and was deleted. But now you've gone and repeated it.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST,the shrink
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 06:46 PM

Martin wants the thread closed. For him that equates power. He is bereft of power in his daily life and seeks it here. As the thread grows he feels insecure. He only has a small repertoire of insults and once they are used up he repeats himself.He needs the thread closed before the repetition betrays his lack of intellect. It is a race. Discuss.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 06:41 PM

Martin, post enough of that virulent crap, and Joe wil be forced to close the thread. So sit down and shut up, unless you have something real, rather than insults to add.

Bunnhabhain


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 06:02 PM

And you remind me of everything I never wanted to be.

Teenage boys are wonderful people!

You are such an old dickhead you forgot how much fun they have.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 05:54 PM

He does have a way with words, doesn't he?
Reminds me of the kind of juvenile crap you hear coming from teen age boys.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 04:37 PM

Here is a 'Normal Brain'


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 04:22 PM

CT Scan of Terri Schiavo's Brain, 1996


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 03:50 PM

What a fantasy world some people live in!


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 03:41 PM

How true about time.

This husband to me is a louse, has no use for her, is afraid she will come to her senses one day and she will spill the beans on him.

He's not really much better in my eyes than Scott Petersen.

He has the integrity of a pus pimple on an ass (that one was pretty good), and I believe will want her cremated so an autopsy cannot be done and will cheat her parents out of a decent burial.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: LilyFestre
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 03:23 PM

I hate to say it but as it has been presented in the news, Terri brought herself to the state she is in by being an active bulimic which then lead to her heart attack...I don't understand how that makes her husband her killer, MG.

I know you like to attack anyone who talks to you or responds so I am ready for that...could you do me a favor though and at least make it creative? The possum one was almost funny....almost. *G*

Seriously though, why is it you think the husband tried to kill her? I haven't read the entire thread...so forgive me if you have already stated it...there's only so much time in one day for catching up on Mudcat.

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 02:53 PM

Well, DougR, in that case they're plain hypocrites, because there will always be doubt about whether the patient has changed her mind.
Shouldn't we always err on the side of life?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 02:47 PM

Her husband wants her dead and cremated. He probably won't even let her have a decent burial.

He's a bygamist.

He's also her killer and those who support him support murder.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: DougR
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 02:06 PM

I really don't think that it's very likely had Terri had a Living Will it would have been contested, "One who knows."

LonesomeE.J: have I said in any of my posts that I object to the feeding tube being removed from Terri? I don't think so. My remarks have been limited, I believe, the the fact that there is some legitimate doubt about Terri's wishes because they were not memorialized in writing.

Frank's comment to Kim C.: "Like you, I do not have all the facts ...". True enough. my point exactly.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 01:27 PM

Would anything necessarily be different if Terri had made a living will? No. The same publicists and propagandists could simply say, "She may well have changed her mind. Perhaps in her comatose state she realizes for the first time just how precious life is. Since we can't know what she wants now, we must err on the side of life, regardless of what the liberal judicial system says."

Interesting too is that the legislative and executive branches are now distancing themselves from the situation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 01:05 PM

My understanding (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that Michael's sister and one of her friends also testified under oath that they'd heard her say she didn't want to be kept alive on tubes.

Fox News interviewed, with a straight face, a woman who had been one of Terri's nurses some years ago. The nurse asserted (with an affect that I can only compare to a bad actor reciting a memorized speech)that Michael tried to kill Terri with insulin injections. The nurse claims to have discovered "needle marks" all over Terri's body. When she brought this to the attention of her supervisors, she was fired. The police, she says, declined to investigate the accusation of attempted murder.

She also claims that Michael demanded to know, during a staff meeting about Terri's care, "When will the bitch die!!!!????"

Unmentioned by Fox until 48 hours later was the fact that the courts rejected her statements as "not credible."

While the lawyers for Terri's parents insist "she's never even had an MRI, so how can she be properly diagnosed?" neurologists who have actually examined her report that an MRI is not indicated in cases like this where the patient's EKG has "flatlined" and X-rays show that the "human" part of her brain has atrophied, contracted, and liquified.

On the "right to life" side, another neurologist who's worked extensively with "stroke patients" claims he can help Terri "significantly" by providing medications to "increase the blood flow to her brain."

What stroke? What brain?

Why have such people found it so easy to steal the limelight and dictate Congressional agendas?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 11:52 AM

And then there is this patronizing insult from Terri's sister this morning:

"Schiavo's sister, Suzanne Vitadamo, said watching her sister deteriorate has been "gut-wrenching" for the family. "I can't imagine any family member having to sit back and watch this happen to somebody that you love," Vitadamo said on "Good Morning America."

So that is the problem, is it? We shouldn't let anyone die? Or is it that we shouldn't have to watch Terri go through the same death process everyone else goes through who experiences a natural death?

My mother just died. She had cut herself off from food and hydration. Eventually she slipped into a coma, and died within 48 hours. It was peaceful. It was merciful. There was a grace to her death I was startled by, yet deeply and profoundly grateful to have been able to be a part of--the very last part of her journey on earth.

Maybe if the parents and siblings got out of their lawyers offices, out of the courts, and off the damn talk show circuit, they would be able to actually be part of those really sad, happy yet bittersweet privleged moments the could have with their daughter, if they just chose to accept what is happening...

Why is their no joy in their heart that she will be free of all her terrible suffering in this hard, cruel world? When my mother finally passed away, I kept telling people how joyous I was at her release from suffering. How I finally understood, for the first time in my life, the meaning of the word "resurrection" in the biblical sense? And I'm and ardent secularist!

The parents and siblings fear and terror of death is truly disturbing to watch, especially because it is SO dysfunctional and unhealthy for them physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if they could somehow all reconcile over Terri's death bed before she passes?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: EagleWing
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 11:34 AM

Kim C

Like you I do not have all the facts - only those we have been allowed to know.

I can understand that you have an ambivalent impression of Michael but try putting yourself in his shoes. He is in a very ambivalent position himself. His wife 'died' 15 years ago, yet she is not dead because she is being kept artificially 'alive'. He is not free to act as though she is dead but, for Terri's sake he will not divorce her because that would be betrayal. In all probablility Terri had also said something along the lines of "If I die please feel free to marry again" only he can't do that because although she has 'died' yet legally she is 'alive'.

The "power struggle" is not of his making. It is the interference of her family - Christian (and Jewish) teaching is that when people marry they leave their parents and become one together. Unless they have some proof that he illtreated her (or according to MG he tried to kill her) they actually have no authority to interfere.

I did not say that you had called Michael a liar. However, to refuse to accept his word about her wishes is to imply it whether deliberately or not. No, it was not you who mentioned religion - I was refering to her parents and others. If he is not telling the truth then the burden of proof is on those who disbelieve him - not on him to prove that he is telling the truth. You say "we have no way of confirming that." We also have no way of proving it to be untrue. Must we, then, keep Terri in limbo untill she dies of old age? Unless we can prove he is lying we must believe him. That is our normal way of dealing with people - why should not Michael have the same right as the rest of us to be believed?

Whether you post to the thread or not is your decision but in dealing with situations like this - on or off the board - please try to realise that many, many people have been through similar positions. In my case, Chris' death was so sudden and unexpected that, after a night of watching her die, I then had (at 5 a.m.) to face the police whose job was to discover whether or not I had murdered her. They obviously didn't like the situation any more than I but that's the law (in the UK) where sudden death is concerned. You can understand why I got heated? Please have great sensitivity for the spouse in such cases. It isn't easy for them at the best of times but to have relatives interfering makes life so much harder.

Frank L.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 11:33 AM

Back to the topic of this thread & the thread title. Here is a snippet of a news account of of an exchange between the lawyer for the parents, and the federal judge to whom the Schindlers were making their SECOND round of federal appeals to last night, Judge Whittemore.

"In the federal court hearing Thursday, Schindler lawyer David Gibbs III argued that Terri Schiavo's rights to life and privacy were being violated. Whittemore interrupted as Gibbs attempted to liken Schiavo's death to a murder.


"That is the emotional rhetoric of this case. It does not influence this court, and cannot influence this court. I want you to know it and I want the public to know it," Whittemore said."

Amen to that, Judge!


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 11:21 AM

Joe:

I appreciate your sense of tolerance and your ability to express yourself on that issue. Thank you for your time spent in cleaning up this and other threads from whomever, especially if someday it's me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: EagleWing
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 10:59 AM

A GUEST said, Playing God is a slippery slope.

I agree. So why have people been playing God for the last 15 years and artificially keeping alive this poor lady. That is playing God! Allowing a person to die naturally is not playing God. It is allowing God, or nature, to take his/her/its course.

Frank L.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: EagleWing
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 10:52 AM

No one knows, with certainty, what Terry would have wanted to do

How can you say that? Her husband knows with certainty what Terri would have wanted to do because she told him, just as my wife told me and I told my wife.

If her husband is lying then it is surely somebody's burden of proof. The husband is the next of kin. Unless he is proved to be lying then he is the most likely person to know her wishes. Has anyone proved that he is lying?

Frank L.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Kim C
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 10:10 AM

Frank, I apologize if I offended you. I did not know the story of your wife and it was certainly not my intent to insult anyone. I have never been in any such situation so all I can do is approach it as an outside observer; and as such, the only facts I have are what I can get from the news media. In addition, I am trying to approach the situation factually rather than emotionally, which is no simple task.

Maybe I didn't express myself as clearly as I would have liked. My impression of Michael Schiavo is ambivalent because yes, he is still fighting for what he believes his wife wished for; but on the other hand, he is living with a woman and has had 2 children with her. I don't really know what I think about that. It seems like in this unique position, he can't fully do right by either woman. He is still married to Terri and as her husband, he should be giving her his FULL attention, but he also has a family to whom he should be giving his full attention. He can't do both.

And as I already stated, I don't understand the motivation behind the power struggle between him and Terri's parents. Is it that if he divorced her, he would cease to be her guardian and then would have no more say in the matter? I could accept that.

I never suggested that he is a liar, and I never said anything about religion. I only presented the facts as they have been presented to me: he says she wouldn't have wanted to live this way, and that may very well be true, but we have no way of confirming that. Those are both facts, yes?

I wouldn't want to live like that. I wouldn't want my child to live like that, either. I would hope that if I were ever in that situation, my husband and my mother would be able to work together and come to an agreement.

I didn't mean to upset anyone with my comments here. I will not be returning to post on this thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 06:52 AM

MG, I rest my case. Your IQ is showing. (Again)


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: kendall
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 06:51 AM

I never could see the difference between someoneone posting as "guest", and someone posting with a made up name.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 01:22 AM

Hey, you have to admit that there's some poetically vivid imagery in asking somebody to suck shit from a possum. Them suckers can get vicious.
Yes, I know he's said stuff that is extremely objectionable. You people who respond to that, don't help a bit. Not only did I have to delete Martin's crude comment - I had to delete five messages that responded to it and one that quoted it. I'm here for the music, and I really don't enjoy having to intervene in these squabbles. If you don't like what Martin has to say, freeze him out by refusing to respond to him.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 01:21 AM

Doug said "And I do see Martin's point when he criticizes those who profess to value life so much, they oppose the death penalty for murderers on death row. Seems a bit hypocritical to me."

I happen to think that it is the right thing to do to let Terry Schiavo's body die.
I also support the death penalty.
I don't for the life of me understand why the Schiavo issue breaks down along political lines. I understand that there is a grassroots culture of born-again christian rightwingers who dismiss all actual physical evidence in this case in favor of "she just needs prayer and a heap of love from above". What I don't understand is why other Republicans who are reasonably intelligent...and I count Doug among these... feel the need to string along. Even such a conservative stalwart as George Will seems baffled by this, calling the phenomenon "a worst case scenario of the tail wagging the dog" and "the kind of issue that makes moderates who voted Republican in the last election reevaluate the charge that the religious right has seized the steering wheel of the bus and everyone else on board is just grabbing a strap". I'm with George on that one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST,Japonica
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 01:16 AM

Everything Martin Gibson says is right.
He is great.
Everything he thinks is right and great.
Every thought he has always, always, turns out to be true.
Martin Gibson must continue to turn his thoughts into postings here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 12:37 AM

You're right, DougR. Wrong word, since some might take it in the literal sense.

However, the lack of compassion you have exhibited towards people on these threads who have experienced some of the most painful and difficult experiences a person can have, is something that I have, over the last few years, come to expect from you. And so now, from you, I would expect nothing more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: DougR
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 12:16 AM

Carol C: my parents (yes I had a mother and father) would be most disappointed to hear that their son is being called a bastard. From you, though, I would expect nothing less.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 10:46 PM

I have to tell you, DougR, that it did strike a chord. Because most of the peope I see in these threads who are advocating for Terri Schiavo to be allowed to die and not be forced by people with secondary agendas to remain in a persistant vegetative state indefinitely, are people who know from their own experience how it feels themselves to be in the shoes of Michael Schiavo. And I imagine that many of them may very well be against the death penalty, for whatever moral reasons they may have.

It really pisses me off to see you call people hypocrites for wanting what they see as mercy for Terri Schiavo (death with dignity), and also wanting to value human life enough to prohibit the death penalty.

These people have EARNED the right to hold both opinions. And it is the height of arrogance (and hypocrisy) for you to come onto threads like this on and call them hypocrites. That makes you a right bastard in my book.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Amos
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 10:24 PM

Martin, ya want to look at murder, imagine taking a big blunt instrument and with months of premeditation using it to squash humans and smash their children, knowing that was what one was about, and doing so NOT witht he grave acknowledgement of the courts, as in Schiavo, but in defiance of national and international law.

That a man could do such acts, resulting in hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of butcherings and deaths and maimings, and then try to make a poster-person out of a brain-dead woman, smacks of the most arrant hypocrisy and double-tongued self-serving disingenuousness possible -- complete slimery of the soul and duplicity of the mind. Thus, George Bush.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 10:10 PM

Guest, fuck you.

Wesley S. and others, I have been there like you but things worked out for the better. My mother lived and is still with me today because of the miracle of modern science and medicine 8 years ago. I'm not talking about Jesus here because he means nothing to me. So screw blaming fundamentalist Christians for just having faith.

Why not give smart and educated humans a chance?

I am talking about giving life a chance.

Terry's husband probaBly tried to kill her. He could give a shit about her.

He's probably someone who posts as a Guest on this forum.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 08:17 PM

But, isn't using the plug to begin with, also playing god?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 08:16 PM

"I would want my husband to be able to move on with his life - like Michael Schiavo apparently has. He hasn't exactly "stood by her" as some of you have implied. He's already had kids with someone else, hasn't he? If that's true, he abandoned Terri a long time ago."

Um, it seems to me that you are contradicting yourself here KimC. In the first sentence you say you would want your husband to be able to "move on with his life like Michael Schiavo apparently has". I suppose I don't know what you mean by "moving on". I would define his new relationship, including the children, as having "moved on".

Then you say, with what I read as an accusing tone "He hasn't exactly "stood by her" as some of you have implied."

I'm confused. Do you not think he can do both? That he must do either one or the other thing? I would disagree very strongly with that sort of assertion. There are very good reasons--which we are, sadly, watching played out in the media--for Michael NOT to divorce her and walk away, the main one being that he would lose his guardianship of Terri, seeing her parents appointed, knowing they would not honor Terri's wishes not to be kept alive artificially in a circumstance like the one she is in.

If he truly loved her, how could he just walk away from her like that? I can tell you, if it were me and I had found a new partner and begun a new family, I wouldn't give up the fight for my loved one either. I would do exactly what Michael Schiavo is doing. Both move on with my private life, while continuing to fight the good life for his wife who still needs him to be married to her more than she needs him to divorce her.

Another thing--how many of you would want to have video and photographs taken of you and plastered all over the world, of yourself in that condition? Video and photographs showing your hospital gown raised to show the feeding tube? What kind of "dignity" is that? It is sheer humiliation. Apalling that any parent could claim to love their child and then do that to them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 08:09 PM

MG, there you go with your shotgun approach to every problem. It's people like you who turned me from being a right wing raving, judgemental, anal pain in the ass.
I am a yellow dog liberal now and I am not in favor of "Allowing" her to die. If that was me in the state, I'd want to be set free, but I don't think anyone has the right to pull the plug. Playing God is a slippery slope.
When you use that broad brush approach, all you do is show your IQ, or, the lack of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: DougR
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 08:01 PM

I suppose my comment about folks who profess to be so against the death penality yet favor allowing Terry to die appear to be a bit hypocritical struck a chord. It certainly did with Carol C.

I just re-read my post and nowhere did I state that I was opposed to ending life when medical authorities deemed that a quality life was no longer possible. I have a Living Will. My wife has Medical Power of Attorney. I do not want heroic measures to be taken to continue my life, if there is no life to look forward to.

I was merely pointing out that the weak link in the chain appeared to me to be the fact that her wishes were not made known in writing. If they had been, this whole mess with the press and every thing that has gone along with it would have been avoided.

I don't question Guest's post that it happens every day and that husbands or wives give permission to stop life support every day even if the wishes of the person involved are not memorialized in writing. So what's the point in having a Living Will?

No one knows, with certainty, what Terry would have wanted to do, and as I said in my previous post, the courts are merely taking the husband's word for it. So I ask again, what's the point in having a Living Will?

And no, Carol, I'm not going to research the Texas law. I've had my say and that's it.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 07:53 PM

yes I agree with the last bloke, even if it does make me a turd with ear flaps.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: EagleWing
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 07:29 PM

Kim says "Only Terri can say what's best for Terri, and she can't say it."

Unless you are calling her husband a liar, she has already said it. I suggest you publicly (in the press, rather than here) call him a liar. What you are doing is libeling a man whose wife has been kept in a living death purgatory for 15 years. Terri is being denied her own wishes and her husband is called a liar by a group of selfish people using religion as their excuse.

Frank L.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcatters supporting murder
From: GUEST,the shrink
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 07:26 PM

Those who martin have loved have deserted him. They have chosen to walk away from him. He now wishes to feel the power of being able to hold onto someone, anyone, even if it is a woman he has never met and doesn't know. Discuss.


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