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Origins: Methodist Pie

DigiTrad:
METHODIST PIE


In Mudcat MIDIs:
Methodist Pie (#291A from Vance Randolph's Ozark Folksongs)


GUEST,GLoux 29 Mar 05 - 12:18 PM
GUEST,Joe Offer 29 Mar 05 - 12:40 PM
GUEST 29 Mar 05 - 12:47 PM
GUEST 29 Mar 05 - 12:48 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 29 Mar 05 - 01:08 PM
frogprince 29 Mar 05 - 01:44 PM
PoppaGator 29 Mar 05 - 01:49 PM
frogprince 29 Mar 05 - 01:58 PM
Arkie 29 Mar 05 - 01:59 PM
frogprince 29 Mar 05 - 02:26 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 29 Mar 05 - 03:47 PM
GLoux 29 Mar 05 - 05:12 PM
cetmst 29 Mar 05 - 06:21 PM
Nancy King 29 Mar 05 - 06:41 PM
Arkie 29 Mar 05 - 06:43 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 29 Mar 05 - 07:22 PM
Ferrara 29 Mar 05 - 07:37 PM
Stewie 29 Mar 05 - 08:01 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 29 Mar 05 - 08:08 PM
Arkie 29 Mar 05 - 09:01 PM
frogprince 29 Mar 05 - 11:30 PM
Joe Offer 30 Mar 05 - 12:14 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 30 Mar 05 - 12:44 AM
Amos 30 Mar 05 - 02:35 AM
Joe Offer 30 Mar 05 - 02:51 AM
GLoux 30 Mar 05 - 08:46 AM
Pete Peterson 30 Mar 05 - 09:37 AM
GUEST 30 Mar 05 - 02:30 PM
frogprince 30 Mar 05 - 04:01 PM
MoorleyMan 30 Mar 05 - 04:23 PM
Joe Offer 31 Mar 05 - 02:48 AM
GUEST,Bob Coltman 31 Mar 05 - 06:33 AM
GLoux 31 Mar 05 - 08:59 AM
GLoux 31 Mar 05 - 09:16 AM
GUEST,Bob Coltman 01 Apr 05 - 05:20 AM
GUEST,leeneia 01 Apr 05 - 09:55 AM
open mike 01 Apr 05 - 12:14 PM
frogprince 01 Apr 05 - 12:24 PM
open mike 01 Apr 05 - 04:13 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Apr 05 - 05:27 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 11 Apr 05 - 02:08 PM
Stewie 11 Apr 05 - 06:00 PM
Burke 11 Apr 05 - 06:19 PM
GLoux 12 Apr 05 - 08:07 AM
Burke 12 Apr 05 - 09:40 AM
Lin in Kansas 12 Apr 05 - 08:13 PM
GUEST 13 Apr 05 - 07:07 PM
GLoux 13 Apr 05 - 07:11 PM
GLoux 14 Apr 05 - 05:01 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 30 Apr 05 - 09:04 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 30 Apr 05 - 09:42 PM
GUEST,Barbara 15 May 05 - 04:22 AM
GUEST 15 May 05 - 08:01 AM
GUEST,ralphdonnac 22 Jan 09 - 07:07 PM
GUEST,Dith 15 Jun 09 - 06:58 AM
framus 03 Jan 11 - 01:44 AM
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Subject: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GUEST,GLoux
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 12:18 PM

I know there is a old song "Methodist Pie" that all sorts of people have recorded (gene Autry, Grandpa Jones, etc.) and that there's Oscar Fords' "Hideaway" where he sings about a "Great Big Methodist Pie"...

I even found (googled) a recipe for it, to which a friend told me that it couldn't be the real thing because it includes cream cheese, a relatively recent invention.

Does anyone know the origins of "Methodist Pie" and know an old-time recipe for it?

-Greg


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GUEST,Joe Offer
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 12:40 PM

Hi, Greg - Can't say I know anything about the delicacy, and I didn't know anything about the song. There is a copy of the lyrics in the Digital Tradition, but Mudcat is quirky today and I can't access the DT to link to it. I think the song warrants some discussion - and maybe we'll find out about the pie itself in the process.
According to the Traditional Ballad Index, there at two versions of it and one tune in Randolph's Ozark Folksongs. Here's the Ballad Index listing:

Methodist Pie

DESCRIPTION: The singer attends a camp meeting and reports on the goings-on. (S)he enjoys food and music greatly. (S)he maintains, "Oh, little children, I believe (x3); I'm a Methodist till I die...."
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1928 (recording, Bradley Kincaid)
KEYWORDS: music religious
FOUND IN: US(So)
REFERENCES (3 citations):
Randolph 291, "Methodist Pie" (2 texts, 1 tune)
Randolph/Cohen, pp. 248-250, "Methodist Pie" (1 text, 1 tune -- Randolph's 291A)
DT, METHPIE

Roud #7823
RECORDINGS:
Ashley's Melody Men, "Methodist Pie" (Victor 23661, 1932)
Gene Autry, "Methodist Pie" (Oriole 8103, c. 1932)
Bradley Kincaid, "Methodist Pie" (Gennett 6417/Supertone 9210/Silvertone 8220, 1928); (Brunswick 420, c. 1930)
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "Hard Trials" (floating verses)
File: R291

Go to the Ballad Search form
Go to the Ballad Index Instructions

The Ballad Index Copyright 2004 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 12:47 PM

DT lyrics are here (click). Looks like we don't have a tune yet. I'll try to post the one from Randolph later. I understand that MMario might have a tune he can send to me for posting [hint, hint].
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 12:48 PM

Thanks, Joe, I found the words in DT last week...I'm trying to figure out why it is something to sing about...

"There was applesauce, butter, and sugar-in-the-gourd and a great big Methodist Pie"

-Greg


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 01:08 PM

Randolph, Ozark Folk Songs, vol. 2, n0. 291, p. 375, also has sheet music.
Hamper McBee sang it on Raw Mash, Rounder 0061.

Bradley Kincaid published it in a songbook, 1928, "My Favorite Mountain Ballads and Old-Time Songs," as well as recording it.
(Berea College, The Appalachian Ballad and Folk Music Collection.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: frogprince
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 01:44 PM

Guess, as a Methodist, I always thought of the song as a little tongue in cheek boast/admission of shameful pride about being a staunch member of the fold. Kinda like cowboy humor in it's woven blend of braggadocio and self deprecation.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 01:49 PM

In one of Woody Allen's films, his New-York-Jewish alter-ego character has a shiksa (Gentile) girlfriend whose talents in the kitchen are not appreciated by his family ~ they have a thing or two to say about her "Presbyterian pie."

I wonder if Woody made this up out of thin air, or if he had heard of the "Methodist pie" referenced here, but decided to go with a more alliterative version. Or, if there were already a variant folksong about a pie of a different denomination ~ ??


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: frogprince
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 01:58 PM

Just looked at the lyric in the D.T.; I really have just known the chorus before. It's odd that this version includes "I'm a calvinist"; someone who threw that in really didn't know their theolgical traditions very well. Methodists may have danced in worship back in camp-meeting days, but there were some decades since when good methodists would barely utter the "d" word; that taboo, fortunately, has about died out among those I know.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Arkie
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 01:59 PM

I've never given much thought to the symbolism of the song and am curious about what might develop here. As a lifelong Methodist and quite aware of Methodists' fondness for gatherings that include potlucks and tables of vittles and, my favorite, desserts, I've more or less assumed that is was a reference to pie.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: frogprince
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 02:26 PM

Oh, yes indeed; Methodists may not have potlucks better than anybody, but Methodists sure have potlucks as good as anybody. I've et Methodist apple pie, Methodist blueberry pie, Methodist banana cream pie, Methodist strawberry-rhuebarb pie, ...punkin...lemon merangue...choc'late...cherry...peach...gosh knows how many more.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 03:47 PM

A more "recent" ha ha, version was recorded by the Green Briar Boys, Ralph Rinzler, Bob Yellin and John Herald about forty years back and I believe is included in a CD re-issue. I think this is the only version I've heard since I bought the original vinyl.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GLoux
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 05:12 PM

Oscar Ford's Hideaway obviously has words "lifted" from Methodist Pie. I believe the Canebrake Rattlers recorded a version of it a few years ago.

-Greg


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: cetmst
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 06:21 PM

I have a 78 album "Early American Folk Songs" recorded by Bob Atcher for Columbia, undated but apparently from before 1949 when Columbia reissued it on vinyl. Sides in addition to Methodist Pie are Barbary Allen, Old Smoky, Devilish Mary, De Ladies Man, Hunters of Kentucky and Young Rogers the Miller with one of my favorite lines "I think you're the young man with long yellow hair who once came a-courting my father's gray mare". No help on the liner notes, however, with the recipe for Methodist Pie.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Nancy King
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 06:41 PM

Just for the record (ahem), "Methodist Pie" was also recorded by the late Jonathan Eberhart on his wonderful solo album, "Life's Trolley Ride" (Folk-Legacy FSI-82). In his album notes, he says,

"This is a fine example of those 'sing-all-day-and-dinner-on-the-grounds' songs that are often as much fun to sing as it is to attend the happy gatherings they describe. It's been sung by the likes of Bradley Kincaid and Grandpa Jones, and I first heard it in 1964 from the Greenbriar Boys."   He goes on to describe his arrangement and how it came about.

After Jonathan's memorial service, which was a marvelous celebration of his life and music, I gave his long-time caregiver Elise (a lovely, patient, and devout woman) a ride home. She asked about Jonathan's religion, and I tried to explain delicately that he wasn't really a member of any church, and was really not a religious person, but undoubtedly had his own moral code, etc., etc. "But I thought he was a Methodist," she said. "He sang about it: 'I'm a Methodist, a Methodist, It is my belief; I'm a Methodist till I die'." It was hard to explain to her that he really just liked the song and its old-time camp-meeting sound.

Nancy


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Arkie
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 06:43 PM

I am inclined to believe that the term in the song refers to pie baked by one of those devout Methodist ladies who expressed her deep theological concerns through a wood cookstove oven. Any confection that came from that Methodist oven, be it cherry, peach, or apple, would have been a Methodist pie.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 07:22 PM

Give a slice of banana cream with meringue to Arkie. He is right, Methodist pie is whatever the ladies baked and brought. To paraphrase, I never met a Methodist pie I didn't like (or Baptist, either).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Ferrara
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 07:37 PM

I learned it from Jonathon Eberhart's recording, and always assumed about the same as what Arkie says: It's any of the wonderful home made pies that the church ladies take to potlucks, not a specific kind of pie. I suspect the ladies put out their very best efforts when they were cooking for a church function, because there's a certain satisfaction in getting a reputation for being a wonderful cook. And of course, a woman wouldn't take pie unless she felt her pies were one of her best dishes. :-)

Rita


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Stewie
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 08:01 PM

Meade's earliest printed citation for this is: Johnson & Swain's 'We're No (sic) Crazy But Insane Songster 1881, p30 'Medley of Jubilee Hymns'. Also 'Wehman's Collection of Songs #16', October 1887, p20.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 08:08 PM

Any one have these old lyrics?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Arkie
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 09:01 PM

Go heavy on the meringue.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: frogprince
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 11:30 PM

Sweet potato pie. Darn, haven't had a good sweet potato pie in ages.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 12:14 AM

Hmmm. We could have a real feast here:
  • Methodist pie
  • Lutheran Jello Mold
  • Catholic jack mackerel
  • Episcopal martinis...
Any more?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 12:44 AM

Devil's Food Cake?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Amos
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 02:35 AM

Dang, Joe, who tole yer about them Episcopal martinis??? Thet there's a high order secret!!!

We're gonna hafta change the ritual now. Mebbe highballs?

LOL!


A
Episcopalian Altarboy Par Excellence


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 02:51 AM

Amos, the secret has been out for a long time. Garrison Keillor told all about the martinis and Jello molds on some of his "News from Lake Wobegon" monologues. Keillor has a parody of "Methodist Pie" called "I'm a Lutheran" (click here).
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GLoux
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 08:46 AM

From the Pie of the Month Club here's the recipe I referred to earlier:

Methodist Pie

You need:

One 9" deep dish graham cracker crust

Filling:
1 1/2 lb cream cheese
3/4 c. sugar
3 eggs
1/4 c. melted butter
1 tsp lemon juice
pinch of salt


Topping (just mix these three ingredients):
2 c. sour cream
2 TB sugar
1 tsp vanilla

Preheat oven to 375 F. Beat cream cheese until light, add eggs and sugar, beat until fluffy. Add butter, lemon juice, salt. Mix thoroughly and pour into crust. Bake for 20 minutes, remove from oven and carefully spoon topping on top. Turn oven up to 475 F. Cook for 5 minutes more at this temperature. Chill before serving.
-try it with fresh berries!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Pete Peterson
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 09:37 AM

My friend Gil Palley (who I don't see often enough) would always pitch the song in D major so that after the usual verses he could change into D minor and sing:
"I'm Jewish, I'm Jewish, I'm Jewish, I'm Jewish, I'm Jewish till I die. . ."
(the practice of taking a perfectly good song and switching from major to minor can be lots of fun for those of us with little taste. Gil and I also used to butcher "Oi, dem Golden Slippers" in much the same way)
Not that this helps with the origins of Methodist Pie; sorry Greg!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 02:30 PM

By the way, the lyrics in DT for Methodist Pie (see Joe's link above) are noted to be from Jonathan Eberhart's recording of it on Life's Trolley Ride.

-Greg


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: frogprince
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 04:01 PM

Pete Peterson, huh; you wanta bring some of them good swedish meatballs?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 04:23 PM

As far as recordings goes, there's a neat one by Tom Paley with his New Deal String Band on the Wildwood label, it came out only around three or four years ago as I recall. The last lines of the second and third verses are changed round from the DT version already noted, and there's other minor variants here and there (like the list of names in the first verse) but it's essentially the same song from the same source I'd guess. Though Tom doesn't do the Calvinist and Eucharist bit in the final chorus repeat. Great fun all the same.


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Subject: Lyr Add: METHODIST PIE (from Vance Randolph)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 02:48 AM

I don't think it would be right to have just one version of the song, would it? Here are two from Vance Randolph's Ozark Folksongs.
Oh, by the way, I can tell you as a Catholic, that Catholic pie isn't very tasty.
But you can drink beer at a Catholic Friday night fish fry.
-Joe Offer-

Methodist Pie
(Randolph #291A)

I went to the camp meetin' t'other afternoon,
To hear them shout and sing,
And tell each other how they love one another
And to make hallelujah ring.
They all went there to have a good time,
And eat the grub so sly,
Applesauce, butter, sugar in the gourd,
And a great big Methodist pie.

CHORUS
Oh little chillens, I believe,
Oh little chillens, I believe,
Oh little chillens, I believe,
I'm a Methodist till I die.
Methodist, Methodist is my belief,
Methodist till I die.
Till old grim Death comes a-knockin' at the door,
I'm a Methodist till I die.

There was old Uncle Daniel and Brother Ebeneezer,
Uncle Rufus and his lame gal Sue,
Polly and Malindy and old Brother Bendy,
You never saw a happier crew.
You ought to hear the ringin' when they all got to singin'
That good old By and By,
And see Jim Magee in the top of a tree
Sayin' how is this for high?

They all took hands and walloped round the ring,
Kept singin' all the while,
You'd have thought it was a cyclone comin' through the air,
You could hear them shout half a mile.

Sung by Mrs. Laura Wasson, Elm Springs, Arkansas, January 28, 1942. Sometimes she sings this with "an exaggerated nigger-minstrel pronunciation," using de for the, udder for other, etc.

Click to play




Here's #291B, from Mrs. Lillian Short of Galena, Missouri, February 23, 1941. It seems to be an alternate ending of the song, with some overlap with #A

Then they all catch hands and march around the ring,
Keep a-singin' all the while,
You'd think it was a cyclone coming through the air,
You could hear them shout a half a mile.

Then the bell rings loud and a great big crowd
Breaks ranks and up they fly,
While I took the board on the sugar in the gourd
And cleaned up the Methodist pie.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 06:33 AM

"Hide Away" is not in itself a borrowing from Methodist Pie. It just uses a verse from the latter as a "floater."

"Hide Away" as sung by Oscar Ford is "De Gospel Raft," words by Frank Dumont, which probably dates to the 1880s. It appears in the Oliver Ditson-published "Minstrel Songs Old and New", which though it carries no date, was first published in 1889.

The misunderstanding is natural enough, since the verse Ford uses isn't part of the original song--like so many oldtime singers, who had to fill a 3- to 3 1/2-minute record, he just snatched the Methodist Pie verse out of the air to fill out the side.

But that implies Oscar Ford knew "Methodist Pie" probably before Brad Kincaid recorded it. (Though he just may have seen the printed version, my guess is that it was an old song for him then, or he wouldn't have used the verse so casually.)

The Randolph versions cited are from the 1940s and are incomplete... probably the two informants were singing from memory of the Kincaid recording.

The jury is still out on how old "Methodist Pie" is or who wrote it, but it sounds to me like an imitation of a late-period (c. 1890-1910) minstrel-style song before the minstrel shows began to fade forever. Minstrel songs at the end of their popularity did increasingly tend to lean into the territory contemporaneously opened up by "Negro spirituals" as they were called.

The camp-meeting craze, which this song satirizes, was also an 1880s development, if memory serves--one of those periodic fads for ecstatic religion that (thankfully, IMHO) don't last forever. It did persist into the early 20th century, so was available for fun-poking at any time from say 1890 until 1928, when, as far as we know to date, "Methodist Pie" first appeared.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GLoux
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 08:59 AM

Bob Coltman, thank you for your insight...

I'm curious about your linking Oscar Ford's "Hide Away/Hideaway" to Frank Dumont's "De Gospel Raft".

If you have the time, could you please post the words to the Frank Dumont song?

-Greg


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Subject: Lyr Add: DE GOSPEL RAFT (Frank Dumont, 1878)
From: GLoux
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 09:16 AM

Never mind...I googled and found the words. from Minstrel Songs Old and New:

"De Gospel Raft" (1878)
Words and Music by Frank Dumont
Arranged by Charles Baker

[Source: pages 176-177 from
"Minstrel Songs, Old and New" (1883)]

1.
I'm a going to cross de river on de gospel raft,
like Noah in de good ole ark,
Keep your candles all a burning, keep 'em burning all de time,
or you'll lose yourself and stumble in the dark,
Get your baggage on de craft, don't for get to get the check,
for you've got to pay your passage right to day.
Be sure de money's good, for de captains eyes is sharp,
you can't sneak aboard and hide away.

CHORUS
Hide away, (Hide away,) hide away, (hide away,)
dar's no use in try'ng to hide away.
Get your baggage on de craft, don't for get to get the check,
you can't sneak aboard and hide away.

2.
Now take warning, little children, don't get fooled about de raft,
for de opposition boats are running too,
But she's liable to bust the boiler any time at all,
and cook you niggers all into stew,
I'se got a private box, and an opra glass to see
you sinners trying to buzz in at de door.
But they'll kick you down de stairs if you hasn't got de grace,
if you come back they'll slap you on de jaw.

(CHORUS)

3.
Let me tell you 'bout de army mister Pharo' did command,
when he followed ole Moses long ago,
They was drownded in de water with their life preservers on,
and de fishes had a jublee down below,
Dar was Jonah was a fool and as stubborn as a mule,
but de whate did make him quickly disappear.
Jonah den pulled out a razor and he cut de whale in half,
and floated to shore upon his ear.

(CHORUS)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 05:20 AM

GLoux, thanks...both for the text, and also for the citation. That makes my copy of Minstrel Songs Old and New six years older than I thought, which has all sorts of implications for the songs within. (It's always a battle to date first appearances, and this helps.)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 09:55 AM

St Peter was standing at the Pearly Gates when he saw three women making their way up the road to Heaven. When the first woman reached him, he asked her why she would be entitled to enter Heaven. She told him that she had been a nun, working with the poor, teaching and healing for many years. "Welcome to Heaven," he said.

The second woman was Jewish. She said, "Well, I tried to live the best life I could. I struggled to raise my children right, and I always kept kosher." "Welcome to Heaven," the saint replied.

The third woman was a Methodist. Again St. Peter asked why she would be entitled to enter Heaven. Her answer was simple. "I have the casserole."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: open mike
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 12:14 PM

add to the menu Lutheran Lutefisk.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: frogprince
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 12:24 PM

Open mike, do you EAT that stuff; I know a true case of missionaries from scandanavian roots, in latin American location, who went to get the lutefisk they had prepared for a special occasion, and found out their housekeeper had smelled it and thrown it out.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: open mike
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 04:13 PM

Actually, i have never tasted it...not even with a clothes pin on my nose..i do like pickled herring though! Just think it is funny that
Lutheran and Lutefisk start with the same letters.
I had the same thing happen to a special sour dough starter i had
saved for special occasion in the back of my fridge..a well-meaning
visitor did me the "favor" of getting rid of it...a special 200 year
old starter from Denmark!!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 05:27 PM

I have salvation now,
I believe, I believe, I believe.
I'll have salvation now, I believe
Oh, I believe just what He said.

A verse from the gospel song, "I Believe," possibly traditional.


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Subject: Lyr Add: METHODIST PIE (from Bradley Kincaid)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 02:08 PM

METHODIST PIE
Bradley Kincaid version, 1928

I was down to camp meetin' The other afternoon
For To hear them shout and sing.
For to tell each other How they loved one another
And to make hallelujah ring.

There's old uncle Daniel And brother Ebenezer,
Uncle Rufus with his lame gal, Sue,
Aunt Polly and Melinda And old mother Bender,
Oh, you never seen a happier crew.

Well, they all go there For to have a good time
And to eat that grub so sly,
Have applesauce butter With sugar in the gourd
And a great big Methodist Pie.

CHORUS:
Oh, little children, I believe,
Oh, little children, I believe,
Oh, little children, I believe,
I'm Methodist till I die.
I'm Methodist, Methodist, 'Tis my belief,
I'm Methodist till I die.
When old grim death comes knocking at the door
I'm Methodist till I die.

Well, you ought to hear the ringing When they all get to singing
That good old by and by.
See Jimmy McGee in the top of a tree
Saying, how is this for high?

Then they cotch a hold of hands And march around the ring,
Kept a singing all the while
You'd think it was a cyclone a-Comin' through the air,
You could hear them shout a half a mile.

Then the bell rings loud and the great big crowd
Breaks ranks and up they fly
While I took board On the sugar in the gourd
And I cleaned up the Methodist Pie. CHORUS

With music arranged by Irma Kincaid, pp. 42-43.
Bradley Kincaid, April, 1928 (six printings by July, 1929), "Favorite Mountain Ballads and Old Time Songs," as sung over WLS, the Prairie Farmer Station. Copyright, 1928 by Bradley Kincaid.

This is the earliest printing (and recording) of this song, according to The Traditional Ballad Index (see posting above).
Bradley Kincaid was born in Garrard County, KY, at the edge of the mountains. The family originally came from Scotland and settled in Virginia. On WLS radio (Chicago, "The National Barn Dance"), Kincaid was known as "The Mountain Boy with His Houn' Dog Guitar and Old Mountain Songs."
His little book has a good selection of ballads and old songs, with tunes, which I will list in a separate thread. The first song, of course, is "Barbara Allen."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Stewie
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 06:00 PM

The Bradley Kincaid recording is available on what is fancifully called a 'double CD' [at some stage, Old Homestead took to calling them double CDs when the punter was given more than about 20 tracks - this one has 28]: Bradley Kincaid 'Old-Time Songs and Hymns Vols 1 & 2' OHCD-4014. There is also a CD 'Vols 3 and 4', this one is called 'double play' with 24 tracks - OHCD 316/7. There is also a 24-track CD, not called a 'double', with the title 'Mountain Ballads & Old-Time Songs'. Surprisingly, there are overlaps among these three CDs, but they do cover a goodly proportion [with many extra] of the songs that Q posted in his Kincaid Index thread: HERE.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Burke
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 06:19 PM

Bob, the first camp-meeting is usually considered to have been started by a Presbyterian, James McGready, in Logan County, Ky., in about 1800. They were common throughout the 19th cent.

They lasted for days & were often as social as they were religious so it would make sense to find the food memorable.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GLoux
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 08:07 AM

But "Presbyterian Pie" would be a rhythmic speed bump, so "Methodist Pie" was used???

Curiouser and curiouser...

-Greg


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Burke
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 09:40 AM

Camp Meetings may have been started by the Presbys, but Methodists picked the techniques up with vigor. Ultimately they were probably more a Methodist or even Baptist orientation, so Methodist Pie is fine.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 08:13 PM

Camp meetings, or "brush arbor revivals" as they were called in my youth, went on in rural Texas at least through the 1950s and 1960s. And ALL denominations, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Catholic, and (gasp) Presbyterians (should any survive there) were welcome and indeed encouraged to attend. Usually a brush arbor meeting would last at least three days, involve visiting "revival" preachers (heavily into hellfire and damnation) and attempt to get everyone enthused or "revived" with whatever religion they practiced. While most of the attendees were quite sincere about them, the meetings were also considered entertainment and were an exciting event around my home town. And yes, the "church ladies" brought lots of pies!

Lin


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 07:07 PM

Lin,

Do you know John?

-Greg


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GLoux
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 07:11 PM

The last post was from me...sans cookie...I've re-cookified myself and I'm back.

I want to post the lyrics to Oscar Ford's Hideaway, but I don't have them yet.

-Greg


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Subject: Lyr Add: HIDEAWAY (Oscar Ford)
From: GLoux
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 05:01 PM

HIDEAWAY
Oscar Ford

1. I'll tell you about the army in Pharoah's command
That battled Moses long ago
Got drownded in the river with their life preservers on
And the preacher had a juba down below
Then Jonah like a fool got stubborn as a mule
And the whale made him quickly disappear
Jonah out with his razor and he cut the whale in two
And he threw him up on shore upon his ear

CHORUS: Hideaway (Hideaway) Hideaway (Hideaway)
You've got to steal aboard and Hideaway
Get your baggage on the deck
Don't forget to get your check
You've got to steal aboard and Hideaway

2. I'm goin' down the river on the gospel raft
Like Noah in the good old ark
Get your candles always burnin' keep them burnin' all the time
Lest you lose your way and stumble in the dark
And god bless the sheriff and his soul be nice and pure
And be ready for that awful judgement day
Get your baggage on the deck and don't forget to get your check
And you've got to steal aboard and Hideaway. CHORUS.
3. There was old Uncle Daniel, brother Ebenezer,
Uncle Rufus and the lame gal Sue
There was Holly and Melinda and old brother Benny
And you never seen a happier crew
Well we all went there for to have a good time
And eat that grub so sly
There was applesauce, butter, and sugar-in-the-gourd
And a great big Methodist Pie. CHORUS


(note: I didn't transcribe these words...they were passed to me by someone who sings it...so I hope they're right)

-Greg


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 09:04 PM

Collected in 1912:

METHODIST

Methodist, Methodist while I live,
Methodist till I die;
Been baptised in the faith,
An' fed on Methodist pie.

E. C. Perrow, "Songs and Rhymes from the South," 1911-1915, Part 2, IV. Religious Songs and Parodies of Religious Songs. "From Virginia, country whites; from memory; 1912."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 09:42 PM

Incomplete reference to Perrow.
Jour. American Folklore, 1913, [2] vol. 26, pp. 123-173; on line through Mehlberger, www.immortalia.com


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GUEST,Barbara
Date: 15 May 05 - 04:22 AM

Do you go by the name Methodist Pie or is this about making an old fashioned pie? Or is this a kind of name for someone. Thank you, I am new on here and do not know. from Barbara


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GUEST
Date: 15 May 05 - 08:01 AM

Where I was raised in Northwest Pennsylvania (also known as the Bible Belt or Northern Appalachia) camp meetings were held into the 1930's. Don't know what denomination but they were known as Holy Rollers and we kids being raised as Covenanter Presbyterians (the more dour group) were strictly forbidden to attend. We did however occasionally hide in the bushes to hear the most inspiring shouting and singing. Wish I could have recorded it.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GUEST,ralphdonnac
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 07:07 PM

A good version of the song is by Hylo Brown, included in the 2-cd album "Bluegrass Bible", Rural Rhythm Records. We got ours thru Daedalus Books and Music.

Hope someone comes up with the recipe, if there is such a thing as a Methodist Pie (without cream cheese?).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: GUEST,Dith
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 06:58 AM

I think it's something to sing about because it describes perfectly what Methodist fellowship looks like. We all love to sing and eat.

By the way, at my church, we sometimes include liturgical dance in church. It's the Baptists who disallow dancing (still to this day). To my knowledge we never had a problem with it, as we'd always have a counter to the Baptist anti-dancing argument, citing verse after verse describing dance as a way to praise God. Baptists banned dancing because Herod's stepdaughter danced so seductively for him that she was able to talk him into bringing her the head of John the Baptist on a silver platter.

Yeah, Calvinism and Methodism are soooo not the same thing. Wesley had a good bit of theological skirmishes with the Calvinists. And that predestination junk... we aint buying it.

Still, this song is representative of a bygone era of Methodist camp meetings. We were called "shoutin' Methodists" back then because of the way we carried on at our meetings. I'd love to have some of that fire back in our church. It would be great to have an old-fashioned revival.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Methodist Pie
From: framus
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 01:44 AM

Anybody ever read "The Christian Agnostic" by Leslie D. Wetherhead?
It could silence a few of the arguments here.


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