Lyr Req: The Light Dragoon - a bit missing?

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 02:46 PM

Sorry about that, Malcolm, it just slipped out.

Twas written by the chap you christened Gripper more than 40 years ago.

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 02:05 PM

Hairy Cocks

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 06:44 AM

Thanks Steve

So where is that from??

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 06:04 PM

He said to the lass, 'I'm enjoying the show,
And if on your fiddle strings you let me bow
I've twenty bright guineas in gold for to pay
So strike up a tune that's lively and gay
On your rumple ....

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 02:39 PM

"Roy Harris got 'The Dragoon's Ride' from Cyril Tawney"

Thanks for the correction, Reinhard - I should have checked those sleeve notes myself, particularly as I now remember Cyril coming up to me on one occasion after I'd sung the song, and talking about its Devonian history.

I should perhaprs have mentioned that Baring-Gould had copied out in his own hand the version of 'The Jolly Trooper' from 'Love's Garland', so Cyril would probably have found it amongst B-G's papers when he was researching the song. It is of course a commonplace but, having been disappointed not to find it in Cleave's rendition, I was relieved to find that it did at least have a historical association with 'The Dragoon's Ride'.

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Reinhard
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 01:39 PM

Yes Malcolm, verse three of Firelock Stile sounds like an answer to whatever the young man said after verse two. But this song is only known from Harry Cox, and his versions on his EFDSS album (which seems to be the same as that on the Rounder CD re-issue of Songs of Seduction) and on his Topic album The Bonny Labouring Boy do not have another verse.

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 12:59 PM

Can'r remember one Malcolm but we do have a number of recordings of the same song - if I find one I'll put it up
Cheers
Jim

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 12:51 PM

Thanks Jim

I already have that!

I just feel there should be another verse between verses two and three!

cheers

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 07:47 AM

http://mainlynorfolk.info/watersons/songs/thelightdragoon.html

Subject: Lyr Add: FIRELOCK STILE (from Harry Cox)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 07:20 PM

Hi Malcolm
As far as I know this is Harry's complete text
Best
Jim Carroll

Firelock Stile.

O come all young men, come listen awhile,
I'll tell you what happened at Firelock Stile.
When a stump of a nail catched hold of her clothes,
She fell down, and she did expose
Her old rump-a-tump tooral looral laddie-dy,
Rump a-tump tooral looral day!

A gay young buck was standing by —
The sight of her quim that dazzled his eye.
She said, "Young man, I feel amazed
To see a young gentleman stand and gaze
On my rump-a-tump tooral looral laddie-dy,
Rump a-tump tooral looral day!

She said, "Young man, if you mean what you say,
Twenty bright guineas in gold were to pay,
Twenty bright guineas in gold for to pay,
And then, young man, you may fiddle away
On my rump-a-tump tooral looral laddie-dy,
Rump a-tump tooral looral day!

That very soon he gave consent,
And into the woods together they went.
While he preformed and shepre tuned,
The boy and the beauty kept time to the tune
On her rump-a-tump tooral looral laddie-dy,
Rump a-tump tooral looral day!

Now six weeks being over, as I have been told,
She gave him some fire to keep him from cold,
To keep him from cold by night and by day,
And he cursed the young damsel that learned him to play
On her rump-a-tump tooral looral laddie-dy,
Rump a-tump tooral looral day!

Now, all young men, come listen awhile,
I've told you what happened at Firelock Stile,
Or else like me you'll rue this day
You went to the woods for to learn to play
On her rump-a-tump tooral looral laddie-dy,
Rump a-tump tooral looral day!

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 04:30 PM

Thanks, Reinhard.
Just to confirm, Harry List's version I do have. It appears on the Caedmon Series album 2, Folk Songs of Britain, Songs of Seduction as track 2 on the B side, and it doesn't have the extra verse.

Also the 'When will we be married, when cockle shells turn silver bells' commonplace is at least as old as the 17th century when ballads made up solely of such phrases were a common stock of the broadside printers, and indeed continued in oral tradition to be collected in the early twentieth century.

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Reinhard
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 03:39 PM

The sleeve notes of 'Champions of Folly' state that Roy Harris got 'The Dragoon's Ride' from Cyril Tawney, who sang it as 'The Bold Dragoon' on his Trailer album 'Down Among the Barley Straw'. Cyril Tawney gave Richard Cleave as his source.

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 04:31 AM

This thread caught my eye because for many years I've sung an alternative version of this song learned from the classic Roy Harris album of the 1970s, 'Champions of Folly'. I believe Roy got it from Bert Lloyd, who found it in Baring-Gould. Now that we can check these things more fully on the Full English site, I find that Baring-Gould collected Roy's version from Richard Cleave of Huccaby Bridge, although there is some confusion in the records, with Cleave's tune being filed under Record #8 as 'Unknown Old Man', and a different tune supplied under the Cleave entry.

Someone (possibly Bert??) has collated the verses, with that wonderful balladic adynaton "When will we be married? When cockle shells turn silver bells" having apparently been added from a version called 'The Jolly Trooper' in 'Love's Garland' printed by Bell of Newcastle in 1814 (SG probably knows about this).

Just thought I'd add that bit of info to the record.

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Reinhard
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 02:46 AM

Please disregard my comment from yesterday 1:05 PM. Somehow in my sleep deprived brain I managed to confuse the fourth and the last verse. Harry List does *not* sing the fourth verse of Mike's.   So Steve may well be right in stating that Mike or Bert Lloyd may have been the author of this verse.

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Reinhard
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 01:05 AM

Malcolm, Mike *did* sing this verse. Maybe not at the Bluebell but it is recorded on his album Mike Waterson, and on Folkfestival 76' Dranouter.

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 04:22 PM

Oh and while we are looking for missing bits I have searched for years for the missing verse in Harry Cox's version of Firelock Stile.

It's the one before she says

"Well young man if you mean what you say
There's twenty bright guineas in gold for pay"

Any help out there - or was it too suggestive to sing for the BBC?

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 04:17 PM

Thanks Steve & Reinhard

Mike did not sing the verse mentioned but obviously wished it to be sung.

If I have augmented in only a very small way something that Mike thought important I am deeply grateful to him.

I have never been a great scholar of song origins ( I have always been far too busy in other directions) but would happily debunk some of the fanciful theories I have heard put forward over the years of the meanings of both words, verses and whole songs.

I exclude present company from this observation.

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Reinhard
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 01:05 PM

Mike Waterson's version is based on the one sung by Harry List of Framlingham, Suffolk, in the mid-1950s to Alan Lomax and Peter Kennedy. It was released in the 1960's on Caedmon/Topic's Songs of Seduction. Harry List already sang the verse referred to by Malcolm.

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 09:53 AM

Malcolm,
The only version I can find without going through the whole lot is Child's version B from Motherwell which gives this verse later down the order:

She took the bottle in her hand
The glass into the other,
She filled it up with blood red wine
Until it quite ran over.
She drank a health to her love on the stair
Saying, When shall we two marry?
Or when shall we two meet again,
On purpose for to marry?

Mike was in the shadow of Bert when it cam to rewriting songs, and why not? He or Bert could easily have taken the above and 'adapted' it.

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 09:49 PM

Interesting.

I asked Mike Waterson if he would mind if I were to sing The Light Dragoon when not in his company.

He said that would be fine provided I sang an extra verse that he gave me there and then in the bar of the Bluebell in Hull where the Folk Union One met upstairs for many years.

That verse is the fourth one in Sylvia Herold's version given above.

I have never heard anyone else sing it so would be interested to learn where she got it from.

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 05:44 PM

Many thanks, Reinhard. That is the one indeed.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 01:28 PM

Joe,
Light Dragoon (Roud 162) is indeed 299. Just a typo probably.

Subject: Lyr Add: AS I ROVED OUT (Makem & Spain Brothers)
From: Reinhard
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 12:05 PM

Michael, you seem to be right. The Makem & Spain Brothers have:

AS I ROVED OUT

As I roved out on a May morning
On a May morning right early
I met my love upon the way
Oh, Lord but she was early

Chorus:
And she sang lilt-a-doodle, lilt-a-doodle, lilt-a-doodle-dee,-
And she hi-di-lan-di-dee, and she hi-di-lan-di-dee and she lan- day

Her boots were black and her stockings white
And her buckles shone like silver
She had a dark and a rolling eye
And her ear-rings tipped her shoulder

Chorus

"What age are you my bonny wee lass
What age are you my honey?"
Right modestly she answered me
"I'll be seventeen on Sunday"

Chorus

"Where do you live my bonny wee lass
Where do you live my honey?"
"In a wee house up on the top of the hill
And I live there with my mammy"

Chorus

"If I went to the house on the top of the hill
When the moon was shining clearly
Would you arise and let me in
And your mammy not to hear you?"

Chorus

I went to the house on the top of the hill
When the moon was shining clearly
She arose to let me in
But her mammy chanced to hear her

Chorus

She caught her by the hair of the head
And down to the room she brought her
And with the butt of a hazel twig
She was the well-beat daughter

Chorus

"Will you marry me now my soldier lad
Will you marry me now or never?
Will you marry me now my soldier lad
For you see I'm done forever"

Chorus

"I can't marry you my bonny wee lass
I can't marry you my honey
For I have got a wife at home
And how could I disown her?"

Chorus

A pint at night is my delight
And a gallon in the morning
The old women are my heart break
But the young ones is my darling

Chorus

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 05:30 AM

I used to sing Light Dragoon around the Cambridge folk clubs in 1970s, in a longer version than the Mike Waterson one, but which I am sure I learnt from another record around at the time. Anyone know whose it might have been? My memory not what it was.

Also, another, related one in the 17-Come-Sunday variant, to a tune similar to the one used as the first movement March of Vaughan Williams's Englih Folk Song Suite [1923], though I have a feeling this one was Irish. In this one "She came down to let him in, But her mother chanced to hear her". The mother bursts in on the young couple, then

She seized her by the hair of the head
And out of the room she brought her
And with the butt of a hazel twig
She was the well-paid daughter

[chorus] And she had
Toodle-i-di, toodle-i-di, toodle-i-di-dah
And a toodle-i-di-dah, and a toodl-i-di-dah
And she landed.

Also from a record, I think. Mrs Makem, perhaps? Does that variant ring any bells with anyone?

~Michael~

Subject: Lyr Add: THE LIGHT DRAGOON
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 04:28 AM

The Digital Tradition says "The Light Dragoon" is a version of Child #297, Earl Rothes. Can anybody tell me more about this song? "Light Dragoon" seems very modern to me, and I have a hard time tying it to Child 297. Seems to me it's more likely a version of "Trooper and the Maid," Child #299.
Enlightenment requested. See Reinhard Zierke's notes on The Light Dragoon / The Trooper and the Maid, and let's see if we can make some sense of all this.

-Joe-

---

Here's the version Sylvia Herold has posted on her Website: THE LIGHT DRAGOON Well, a light dragoon came over the hill when the moon was shining clearly There was a little lady and she knew him by his horse, because she loved him dearly Dearly, so dearly There was a little lady and she knew him by his horse, because she loved him dearly Well, she’s taken him by the near-side rein, led him to the stable “Here’s hay and corn for your horse, young man, he can eat while he is able Able, so able Here’s hay and corn for your horse, young man, he can eat while he is able” Then she’s taken him by the lily-white hand, led him to the table “Here’s cakes and wine for you, my dear, you can drink now you are able Able, so able Here’s cakes and wine for you, my dear, you can drink now you are able” Well, she’s taken a bottle in her hand, poured out the wine so clearly “Here’s a health to yours and to mine” she said “Ain’t you welcome home my dearie Dearie, my dearie Here’s a health to yours and to mine” she said “Ain’t you welcome home my dearie” Then she’s gone upstairs to make his bed, make it soft and comfy How nimble she’s jumped into the bed for to see if it was easy Easy, so easy How nimble she’s jumped into the bed for to see if it was easy Then the light dragoon has come upstairs, threw his trousers on the table And how nimble he’s jumped into the bed for to do what he was able Able, so able And how nimble he’s jumped into the bed for to do what he was able Well, they’ve laid in bed and the clock struck one, the trumpets they were sounding Well, her spirits they were high and her belly it was low and she’s gone home to her mammy Mammy, her mammy Well, her spirits they were high and her belly it was low and she’s gone home to her mammy “Where have you been the live-long night?” inquired her anxious parents “Oh, I’ve been along with the light dragoon because I love him dearly Dearly, so dearly Oh, I’ve been along with the light dragoon because I love him dearly”

Here's the Digital Tradition text of the song. Any corrections? THE LIGHT DRAGOON The Light Dragoon came over the hill, The moon was shining clearly, There was a young woman, sure she new him by his horse, Because she loved him dearly. Dearly, so dearly There was a young woman, sure she knew him by his horse Because she loved him dearly She took him by the bridle and, She led him to the stable, Here's hay and oats for your horse young man, Let him eat while he is able. Able so able Here's hay and oats for your horse young man Let him eat while he is able She took him in her own white hand, And led him to the table, Here's cakes and wine for you my love, Eat and drink while you are able. Able so able Here's cakes and wine for you my love Eat and drink while you are able She ran upstairs to make the bed, To make it soft and easy, How nimbly she jumped into the bad, To see if it lay easy. Easy, so easy How nimbly she jumped into the bad To see if it lay easy The Light Dragoon he ran upstairs, Put off his army trousers, How nimble he jumped into the bed, To see if it lay easy. Easy, so easy How nimbly he jumped into the bad To see if it lay easy Oh there they lay 'til the cock did crow, And the trumpets they were sounding, With her spirits high and her belly low, She ran home to her mammy. Mammy, her mammy With her spirits high and her belly low She ran home to her mammy Now where have you been all this long night, Inquired her anxious parents, Oh I've been along of the Light Dragoon, Because I love him dearly. Dearly, so dearly Oh I've been along of the Light Dragoon Because I love him dearly Child #297 From singing of Mike Waterson @English @soldier @seduction filename[ LGHTDRAG AG apr97

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 02:18 PM

Ok give me a while

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 08:33 AM

Go on, be a devil, add your own - everybody else does!

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 03:30 AM

The reason I ask is that this is the suggestion of pregnancy:

Oh there they lay 'til the cock did crow,
And the trumpets they were sounding,
With her spirits high and her belly low,

In other songs like this a verse to the effect '9 months being over she gave birth to a daughter or a son' appears.

I must admit I rather hoped for extra verses because I enjoy singing it. But not to be hey?

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 09 Apr 05 - 11:25 PM

Eliza learned the song from Mike (more precisely, from his recording of it) so any differences are unlikely to be great. Mike originally learned it from Peter Kennedy and Alan Lomax's recording of the traditional singer Harry List of Suffolk.

Various links at /thread.cfm?threadid=29713#377212, including the transcription in the DT that Les mentioned and quoted an extract from.

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Apr 05 - 09:22 PM

Light Dragoon - a bit missing?

That's why he's not a Heavy Drago-on...

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Gray D
Date: 09 Apr 05 - 09:06 PM

It's d@mn close, but you're missing the lead in. The thing is, familial link and all, it shouldn't be too far from yer man Waterson's intent.

Gray D

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Apr 05 - 01:45 PM

Thanks Gray, do you think it is very different?

Subject: RE: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Gray D
Date: 09 Apr 05 - 12:44 PM

Les,

    Haven't got time to transcribe the whole song but Eliza Carthy covers it on the original "waterson:carthy" album - Topic Records TCSD475. If you're skint you may find it in your local library.

Gray D

Subject: Light Dragoon - a bit missing?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Apr 05 - 12:32 PM

The Light Dragoon he ran upstairs,
Put off his army trousers,
How nimble he jumped into the bed,
To see if it lay easy.

Oh there they lay 'til the cock did crow,
And the trumpets they were sounding,
With her spirits high and her belly low,
She ran home to her mammy.

Now where have you been all this long night,
Inquired her anxious parents,
Oh I've been along of the Light Dragoon,
Because I love him dearly.

Thes are 2 consequetive verses of the Light Dragoon from the digitrad. I learned the song from Geoff Ingham in Leeds in 71/2. The digitrad gives Mike Waterson as the source and his words are more or less the same as the ones I had from Geoff.

Does anyone have any more verses?