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BS: UK Elections

mandoleer 11 Apr 05 - 04:11 PM
GUEST 11 Apr 05 - 06:30 PM
Crane Driver 11 Apr 05 - 06:32 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 11 Apr 05 - 06:35 PM
mandoleer 11 Apr 05 - 07:06 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Apr 05 - 07:18 PM
mandoleer 11 Apr 05 - 07:37 PM
GUEST,Sidewinder. 11 Apr 05 - 10:48 PM
Boab 11 Apr 05 - 11:08 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 Apr 05 - 05:31 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 12 Apr 05 - 06:33 AM
GUEST 13 Apr 05 - 04:11 AM
GUEST 13 Apr 05 - 04:13 AM
Crystal 13 Apr 05 - 04:53 AM
Stu 13 Apr 05 - 04:55 AM
sian, west wales 13 Apr 05 - 05:13 AM
mandoleer 13 Apr 05 - 08:22 PM
Cats 14 Apr 05 - 11:06 AM
Boab 15 Apr 05 - 03:04 AM
Crystal 15 Apr 05 - 04:22 AM
Piers 15 Apr 05 - 05:20 AM
Crystal 15 Apr 05 - 05:55 AM
Cats at Work 15 Apr 05 - 06:23 AM
GUEST,Tory Boy 15 Apr 05 - 07:15 AM
GUEST,Tory Boy 15 Apr 05 - 07:17 AM
Piers 15 Apr 05 - 08:19 AM
jacqui.c 15 Apr 05 - 08:41 AM
Crystal 15 Apr 05 - 10:04 AM
EagleWing 15 Apr 05 - 12:21 PM
GUEST 15 Apr 05 - 12:32 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Apr 05 - 01:49 PM
Cllr 16 Apr 05 - 07:32 AM
redhorse 16 Apr 05 - 10:43 AM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Apr 05 - 04:48 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Apr 05 - 04:49 PM
Crystal 17 Apr 05 - 10:58 AM
akenaton 17 Apr 05 - 11:02 AM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Apr 05 - 11:49 AM
Cats 17 Apr 05 - 12:20 PM
Piers 17 Apr 05 - 12:42 PM
dianavan 17 Apr 05 - 09:03 PM
Cllr 18 Apr 05 - 03:28 AM
fiddler 18 Apr 05 - 03:46 AM
fiddler 18 Apr 05 - 03:46 AM
Cllr 18 Apr 05 - 08:28 AM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Apr 05 - 03:48 PM
fiddler 18 Apr 05 - 04:47 PM
DougR 18 Apr 05 - 08:21 PM
GUEST,Melvin Contreras 18 Apr 05 - 08:27 PM
Crystal 19 Apr 05 - 08:54 AM
GUEST,Tory Boy 19 Apr 05 - 09:54 AM
Piers 19 Apr 05 - 10:12 AM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Apr 05 - 01:21 PM
Piers 19 Apr 05 - 01:27 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Apr 05 - 04:38 PM
GUEST,Trudie Fitzgerald 20 Apr 05 - 12:51 AM
Piers 20 Apr 05 - 03:52 AM
fiddler 20 Apr 05 - 03:55 AM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Apr 05 - 05:53 AM
fiddler 20 Apr 05 - 07:49 AM
GUEST,Jennet 20 Apr 05 - 07:34 PM
GUEST,McGrath of Harlow 20 Apr 05 - 09:29 PM
Emma B 21 Apr 05 - 07:39 AM
GUEST,McGrath of Harlow 21 Apr 05 - 11:33 AM
ard mhacha 21 Apr 05 - 03:34 PM
GUEST,Tory Boy 22 Apr 05 - 12:12 AM
Piers 22 Apr 05 - 03:51 AM
fiddler 22 Apr 05 - 04:03 AM
Crystal 22 Apr 05 - 07:03 AM
Emma B 22 Apr 05 - 07:39 AM
Piers 22 Apr 05 - 07:41 AM
GUEST 22 Apr 05 - 08:06 AM
fiddler 22 Apr 05 - 08:24 AM
Emma B 22 Apr 05 - 09:25 AM
GUEST 22 Apr 05 - 09:28 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 22 Apr 05 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,Folky 22 Apr 05 - 11:42 AM
Emma B 22 Apr 05 - 12:09 PM
GUEST,Patriotic 22 Apr 05 - 12:12 PM
GUEST,Tory Boy 22 Apr 05 - 12:13 PM
GUEST 22 Apr 05 - 12:15 PM
Piers 22 Apr 05 - 12:52 PM
akenaton 22 Apr 05 - 05:57 PM
GUEST 22 Apr 05 - 05:58 PM
Piers 23 Apr 05 - 04:04 AM
*Laura* 23 Apr 05 - 07:35 AM
GUEST,Chuffin right. 23 Apr 05 - 11:07 AM
GUEST,Tory Boy 23 Apr 05 - 11:12 AM
DougR 06 May 05 - 04:07 PM
mandoleer 06 May 05 - 06:00 PM
GUEST 06 May 05 - 06:32 PM
robomatic 06 May 05 - 06:44 PM
GUEST,xerxes 07 May 05 - 01:12 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 07 May 05 - 05:10 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 07 May 05 - 05:15 AM
ard mhacha 07 May 05 - 09:46 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 07 May 05 - 12:41 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 May 05 - 01:34 PM
Bunnahabhain 07 May 05 - 03:13 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 07 May 05 - 06:46 PM

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Subject: BS: UK Elections
From: mandoleer
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 04:11 PM

As the New Labour is really Conservative, the Conservatives are going for the working class vote, and the Lib Dems never seem to have fixed policies, why don't we tell the lot of them we're not happy? Look at the list of candidates in your constituency, and vote for the outsider that stands no chance of getting in but will come closest (unless it's BNP or such). This will help to reduce the majority of the winner, and low majorities mean they listen harder. Of course, if there is a Raving Loony candidate in your area, vote for them! Only vote Con or Lab or Lib Dem if there is a vast majority to be reduced and that is the only way of doing it. Alternatively, Vote for Apathy and make the turnout rock bottom.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 06:30 PM

Apathy=special interest success=even worse.Use your vote!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Crane Driver
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 06:32 PM

I'm voting for a hung parliament and a coalition government - after 30 years of huge majorities one way or the other (first Maggie the Thug, the Tony B Liar), a coalition can't be any worse.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 06:35 PM

i voting the presevatives, becase tont blair is a big load of shit.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: mandoleer
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 07:06 PM

I hope Sir jOhn remembers that vote is spelled X..... OK, Catters, any better ideas on how to shock the politicians (apologies again for swearing)? [Must be even harder in the USA - or do they have more than two parties there? We in the UK only hear of the two (except for that Ross Perot attempt).] Are there any folkies in Parliament? Or are we too nice to go that route? (I except a certain Green candidate in a local election who was the only Green in the town NOT to canvass for votes, and who still polled more votes than any of the other Greens who had been very active... But he was drafted rather than volunteering.) The Brits brought the price of beef down some years ago. How can we defeat the p*********s?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 07:18 PM

In Hull the Tories came third last time, so voting for them is as good a way as any of helping Labour beat the Lib Dems, Sir jOhn...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: mandoleer
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 07:37 PM

Yes, but the trouble about using one of the mainstream parties is that they will take it as a swing to them even if they don't win. Mind you, if half the country swings one way and half the other it could be interesting... (Polite comments please!)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 10:48 PM

That's the problem with politics in the 21st Century everybody telling everybody else what to do. It smacks of "the blind leading the blind" to me, so I just say follow your instincts and be happy with the outcome as you helped make it happen of your own volition.But if I decide to seek office please vote for me because I didn't tell you to and not because you have to.Now there's democracy at work.

Regards.

Sidewinder.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Boab
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 11:08 PM

The "first past the post" system of election as used in the U.K. [and in many other "democratic" nations] is just about as UN-democratic as you can get. It leads to parties being elected to powe with enormous seat majorities after having scored perhaps 40% of the electoral vote.
[ I believe every UK government since world war two have been elected on just such a percentage or less!] By no stretch of the imagination can this be called "democratic". It simply means that over 50% of the electorate in EVERY election are disenfranchised. Reform required.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 05:31 AM

I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again...

Anyone who thinks they can run the country and other peoples lives must be barking mad. Yet we vote for them time after time. Who is the daftest?

I'd go for the benign dictatorship with me at the helm if I were you.

:D


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 06:33 AM

We've had a Harpy, followed by a toad, so why not a gnome? You've got my vote Dave. Just lose the PELs willya?

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 04:11 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 04:13 AM

Why shouldn't people vote BNP? Check out the website, it makes alot of sense www.bnp.org.uk
I know loads of people that are voting for them.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Crystal
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 04:53 AM

"Why shouldn't people vote BNP?"

errrrr because they are evil little Hitler clones who would like to bring back aparthide and gas chambers for everyone not 100% white and 100% English. A policy which will lead to the last person alive having to kill himself because he had a french great (x whatever) grandmother.

Oh and their leader is even more offensave than Mr B.Liar. The only way that I will vote Labour is if the BNP were the only other choice!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Stu
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 04:55 AM

Why shouldn't people vote BNP?

Troll alert!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: sian, west wales
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 05:13 AM

It's about time that all our elections moved to a proportional representation system (PR). The National Assembly of Wales (and I believe the Scottish Assembly too?) uses one version of PR - possibly not the best but I think the representation is a WHOLE LOT fairer than first-past-the-post. I suspect that the Tories wouldn't have had a look-in on the old system (or perhaps just 1 or 2 seats) and they have about 6 now, if memory serves. Although I would NEVER be considered a Tory supporter, some of these AMs are genuinely good politicians and the Assembly government would be worse without them.

So roll on PR. But in the meantime, vote even if it's by spoiling your ballot. It wouldn't hurt to write to the Press in advance and encourage them to report more fully on the percentage of spoiled votes and the reasons behind them too ...

Re: how to spell 'X', I've been in on a number of counts - including the original National Assembly referendum - and I've been amazed at what people use as a marker! Xs, checks - OK. But there are a lot that use happy faces and even their signatures, and some parties argue that these make the votes invalid (obviously, the parties that aren't ahead on the deal) so if you want to be counted, don't be too cutsie.

I even remember one paper that had a happy face for the chosen candidate and sad faces for all the others. It got disallowed, although I understood the artistic goals of the voter ...

Well, I'm just glad I live in Wales and have 4 parties I can consider - plus the range of smaller ones of course. So far I've only had literature from Plaid Cymry and Labour. Labour has inundated me with stuff which I recycle by sending it back to the local constituency office - postage unpaid.

siân


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: mandoleer
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 08:22 PM

I'm dead against proportional representation as it only gives chances to the parties. How can an independent get elected under PR? And we need more independents - not little wannabes and wannabes who have made it to the top (bottom?) of the pile. How about another suggestion - Candidates must have resided (really resided) in the constituency they stand for for at least five years? (Could be interesting if they applied it to football as well.....)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Cats
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 11:06 AM

My Grandmother was a Suffragette and was imprisoned and went on hunger strike so working class men and all women could vote. Don't not vote. If you cannot find anyone to vote for, either vote tactically or, do what I'm likely to do this time, write None Of The Above on your paper. At least then we are not betraying what those amazing women did for us.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Boab
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 03:04 AM

Fair enough, Cats---but they gave us Maggie Thatcher!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Crystal
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 04:22 AM

I've been disenfranchised! I'm so angry, however it means I can wind up candidates by taking up lots of their time, then telling them I can't vote.
Every cloud has a silver lining!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Piers
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 05:20 AM

Crystal, how come you can't vote?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Crystal
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 05:55 AM

My ******* ex flatmate threw my card in the bin along with her own. I emailed the council, a few months later when I found out saying this had happened and would they send me another one. Bugger all has happened since and the close of registration was 10th of March I can't vote!
I'm guessing they don't want any students to vote in case the Lib Dems get in here!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Cats at Work
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 06:23 AM

You could always try voting Mebyon Kernow!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Tory Boy
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 07:15 AM

Polease don't worry about the BNP.
My doorstepping pals assure me that Tory defectors to BNP last time are coming back to Conservatives this time, due to our sensible policies on immigation, asylum and travellers.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Tory Boy
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 07:17 AM

Oops, misspelt Please.

sincere apologies


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Piers
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 08:19 AM

That's unfortunate Crystal, at least you can still wind up the candidates.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: jacqui.c
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 08:41 AM

Crystal - so long as you are on the register of voters you should be able to go along to your local polling booth and they can find you by name and address. At least, that is what I did when I forgot to take my card with me.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Crystal
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 10:04 AM

The problem is that I'm a student and therefore don't pay council tax, also I only moved here 6 months ago and I'm in rented accomadation so I'm guessing that they only know about me in the most nebulous way. But I'll wind up the candidates anyway, it's always amusing!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: EagleWing
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 12:21 PM

"My doorstepping pals assure me that Tory defectors to BNP last time are coming back to Conservatives this time, due to our sensible policies on immigation, asylum and travellers. "

You mean we don't have to vote for the racists because the Tories have adopted racist policies.

Great!

Frank L.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 12:32 PM

No, the tories are just more in the open about their racist policies. They obviously don't see the need to disguise them anymore.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 01:49 PM

Mightn't you still be on the electoral regsiter in the place yoy moved from, Crystal? In which case you could vote there, if need be by post?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Cllr
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 07:32 AM

controlled immigration is not racism,
and it is usually disenchented workinng class who swith to BNP from labour.
It is a myth put about by the hard left ( in this case posing as a conservative)that it is just tories moving further to right. Cllr


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: redhorse
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 10:43 AM

"controlled immigration" is not necessarily racism.
But in the case of Michael Howard's lot it is

nick


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 04:48 PM

"Are you thinking what we're thinking..."

As Tony Blair said to Michael Howard, he isn't a racist, he's an opportunist (and Tony should know all about that). What's happening is an attempt to appeal to the racism which is being directly stoked up by the nastier papers.

Why else would a keen young would-be MP feel it necessary to doctor a photograph of himself taking part in a demonstration in support of a family of refugees facing deportation, so as to suggest he was demonstrating against immigration? He didn't want to be off-message, and the message is "nudge-nudge, send 'em back". (As articulated by rather too explicitly on-message Tory MP Bob Spink on the other end of Essex from where I live, who opuyt an advert in his local paper saying "What bit of 'send them back' don't you understand Mr Blair?")

Yes, there are some decent Tories around, and Cllr is one ofvthem I rather think - but they are being shafted, the same way decent Socialists have been shafted by the man Howard wants to replace.

Except that the kind of attitudes Howard is flirting with are even nastier than anything Blair got into bed with.

No, racism isn't particularly right-wing - it's a Weapon of Moral Destrucution that can be, and has been, invoked by unscrupulous politicians right across the left-right spectrum. Right now, the people doing it are the Tory Party on the right and the BNP a bit further towards the left.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 04:49 PM

"Are you thinking what we're thinking..."

As Tony Blair said to Michael Howard, he isn't a racist, he's an opportunist (and Tony should know all about that). What's happening is an attempt to appeal to the racism which is being directly stoked up by the nastier papers.

Why else would a keen young would-be MP feel it necessary to doctor a photograph of himself taking part in a demonstration in support of a family of refugees facing deportation, so as to suggest he was demonstrating against immigration? He didn't want to be off-message, and the message is "nudge-nudge, send 'em back". (As articulated by rather too explicitly on-message Tory MP Bob Spink on the other end of Essex from where I live, who put an advert in his local paper saying "What bit of 'send them back' don't you understand Mr Blair?")

Yes, there are some decent Tories around, and Cllr is one of them I rather think - but they are being shafted, the same way decent Socialists have been shafted by the man Howard wants to replace.

Except that the kind of attitudes Howard is flirting with are even nastier than anything Blair got into bed with.

No, racism isn't exclusively or even particularly right-wing - it's a Weapon of Moral Destrucution that can be, and has been, invoked by unscrupulous politicians right across the left-right spectrum. Right now, the people doing it are the Tory Party on the right and the BNP a bit further towards the left.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Crystal
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 10:58 AM

"Mightn't you still be on the electoral regsiter in the place yoy moved from, Crystal? In which case you could vote there, if need be by post?"

Almost certainly, unfortunatly I was registered to vote in one town but my family has moved since. It's all very complex. I might check out my status where I used to live.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 11:02 AM

McGrath...You forget that Blair got into bed with George Bush, and lied to the public about what was going on under the covers.

Maybe thats where he learned to shaft the socialists.

Isnt it about time we stopped nit-picking, we have the strenghth to throw out all these clowns and start on the road to real freedom.

Nobody trusts any of them.
The young would no longer give their lives for the rich old men.
Our society stinks of drug abuse, electoral corruption, modern day slavery,(dead end jobs call centres ect)
Environmental pollution,(mass housing development, big profits for the developers and kickbacks for the councillors and planners)

Dont vote....start fighting back...Ake


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 11:49 AM

Deeply unpleasant as I find George Bush, on the scale of unsavouriness, I think the political tradition Howard is snuggling up to currently beats even that.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Cats
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 12:20 PM

BNP ... left wing! never. The most left wing party we have down here are the Old Liberals. They haven't moved on their stance and now they are further to the left than any other party.

Good Luck, Cllr.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Piers
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 12:42 PM

Cats, surely you mean the most left wing party you have that your newspaper tells you about.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: dianavan
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 09:03 PM

I don't have a very good handle on British politics but it looks like the people of Britain, the U.S. and Australia are all in the same boat. I hope when it goes down, it doesn't take Canada with it but...sorry to say, our Liberals are not liberal at all and have been caught lying about our tax dollars.

When democracy is corrupted you have to wonder - whats next?

Teach your children to swim!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Cllr
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 03:28 AM

I never said the BNP were left wing. I said that where the BNP have been succesful the electoral support is from a traditionally leftwing voting working class voter who feels disenfranchised by the labour party and votes BNP or that ilk. Cllr


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: fiddler
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 03:46 AM

"Are you thinking what we'reI'm thinking"

Apart form all the scorrolous (can't spell that one) suggestions made on these posters ('how would you feel if a bloke on early release attacked your daughter' what about teh burglars - car theives - other perfectly respectable criminals rather than the perverts - there are many many more of the former fortunately very few of the latter)

Anyway round by us there has been a very good poster doctor - got the right typeface and size - "Are you smoking what we'er smoking"

BRILLIANT - at last some humour creeps in.

All we need now is true politics Not lies, dam lies, statistics and politicians!

Andy

NTW any one actually know the percentage of UK population that are immigrant - forget non whites or whites for the minute - look it up I'm not gonna tell you but it is ever so small - should not be an election issue to start with but this makes more of a nonesense of the whole immigration campaign!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: fiddler
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 03:46 AM

sorry BTW at the end!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Cllr
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 08:28 AM

45,000 immigrants a year may "statistically" be very amall but it could still populate a town the size of Peterborough.
Cllr
BTW anyone else see the irony in someone who says there are lies damned lies and statistics and then goes on to quote percentages (without saying what it is) to to prove a point?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 03:48 PM

But fiddler very specifically and intentionally did not quote the statistic. The thing about statistics is they come across as much more accurate and impressive than they are entitled to, because the figures loook precise (even when the actual thing supposedly being measured is a lot less precise).   

Saying "ever so small" is actually more meaningful than saying some decimal point precise figure such as 0.03% or whatever.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: fiddler
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 04:47 PM

Even allowing for Cllrs note - how many towns of that size or larger are there? Again a small amount is immigration - but sorry to be racisit I support only the human race - A Brother to all and a friend to everyone no matter what colour class or creed the other may belong!

Sorry can't go with any other route!

Notice Cllr didn't mention the honest burglars etc. on early release!

Forgot that one then!

Sorry feeling wicked!!!

*GRIN*

Andy


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: DougR
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 08:21 PM

Crystal: what do you mean when you say you don't pay a "council tax?" Do you have to pay some sort of tax in order to vote in Great Britian?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Melvin Contreras
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 08:27 PM

Voting is a Civil Right, DougR.

Not like in the States

MC


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Crystal
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 08:54 AM

Students don't pay council tax as we don't usually own our own homes and are normally classed as residing with our parents anyway. We don't pay tax on our main income as it is a loan, we are allowed up to £4000 (possibly more) tax free parental gifts and we can earn £4000 per year before tax and national insurance contributions are asked of us. However students are not eligable for state support.
My yearly income of about £3000 creeps under the tax barrier, although when I get a part time job I'm likely to be charged as high a rate of tax as the ******* inland revenue can get away with, even though, in theory, I'm not earning enough!

Any party which taxes sensibly gets my vote (so Monster Raving Loony it is!)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Tory Boy
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 09:54 AM

Whether you like it or not, increasingly people are saying that they do not like immigrants or asylum seekers on their patch. That is just a fact of life.
labouring party does not have a useful policy on immigration, which is out of contol.
What Michael Howard is doing is providing a lifeline to those people who are feeling swamped.
He is not racist. He himself is the son of an asylum seeker.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Piers
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 10:12 AM

Council tax is a tax on a households [it is a rejigged poll tax] rather than on the ownership of a dwelling, hence tennants have to pay it rather than landlords. As Crystal says, students are usually classed as residing with their parents, so they are often not on the register of voters when they are away at University. There isn't a tax on voting.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 01:21 PM

If students have registered their new address, they are entitled to vote in that constituency. Otherwise they would normally be registered back with their parents, and entitled to vote there, by post if they wish. It's quite possible to be registered to vote in several places, but it's an offence to vote in both of them.

No tax on voting - I think that would be seen as likely to force down turnout, which wouldn't be seen as advisable, since last time it was almost down to USA levels. On the other hand a tax on voting could bring in quite a lot of money, I wonder if anyone has thought of bringing it in...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Piers
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 01:27 PM

On Michael Howard,
"Immigration is an issue I feel very strongly about," says Tony Scott, on holiday from Suffolk. "And he's the first person since Enoch Powell to talk about it honestly."
(Link)

"As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see the River Tiber foaming with much blood".   Enoch Powell, 1968.

Tory leader Michael Howard has stood by claims the UK could face race riots if people think immigration is unlimited. 18/04/05

I think Michael Howard should resurrect the old 'if you want a nigger for neighbour, vote labour'(link) slogan. It's catchy and it says what he wants without fudging around the issue.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 04:38 PM

Or of course "If you want a Gippo for a neighbour", which goes down well with some people.

There seem some indications that all this is backfiring, and driving people reluctantly back to voting for the Labour party, even though it is still led by Blair. That Guardian letter from Martin Carthy and Norma Waterson I quoted in another thread may have been a straw in the wind:

Hard choice
Tuesday March 22, 2005
The Guardian


Until a week ago our electoral choice was straightforward: a pro-war Labour MP who has toed the party line, an anti-war Lib Dem, along with a laughable Tory. For Labour members like us, the choice was simple. Vote Lib Dem.

Then Michael Howard reached into the gutter and played the Gypsy/Traveller card. The current demonising of an entire community is so shocking we are going to have to vote for a party led by a man we believe to be the slipperiest, most profoundly disliked politician to hold the office of prime minister in our lifetime. A PM whose time is up and whose representative here needs to be voted out. But sadly not by us. Not this time.
Martin Carthy and Norma Waterson
Robin Hood's Bay, N Yorks


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Trudie Fitzgerald
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 12:51 AM

Piers

It's a long time ago but wasn't the Tory slogan in Smethwick:

If you want a nigger for a neighbour
Vote Liberal or Labour.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Piers
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 03:52 AM

Hi Trudie, The BBC site I linked to quotes it as ' . . . vote labour', but I did see '. . . vote liberal or labour' when I was looking for a source.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: fiddler
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 03:55 AM

Just think if current policy proposals had been in place years ago we might not even have Micheal Howard here!

He's a real ethnic himself do we want him as a neighbour let alone prime minister!
One day he claimed Welsh and Immigant from Eastern Europe in the same day! Like all politicians he wants his cake and eat it too!

They settled down in Manchester, they settled down in Crewe
Some lived next to coloured folk and some lived next to you
They cam from far Jamaica and from the Taj Mahal
But those who came to our town, were the luckiest of all

I think Sydney Carter but I could be wrong I've not sung it for around 30 years!

It is not a problem to me or most of us I think.
How many BNP folk (or Conservatives) eat curry I wonder?

And the wonderful influence on our musical traditions - Moorish dancing - could all stop too!

I diverge cheers for today!

Andy


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 05:53 AM

Any more of that song Andy? Soundss if it might be worth chasing down, and the Mudcat is the best place to do that. It doesn't ring a bell for me as a Sydney Carter song I've ever come across, but he wrote a lot of songs.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: fiddler
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 07:49 AM

I'll do some digging for the rest of the song!

Andy


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Jennet
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 07:34 PM

Is it me, or

Is Michael Howard a horrible lying bastard??


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 09:29 PM

He might, reasonably enough, think that that is a necessary quality for being Prime Minister these days.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Emma B
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 07:39 AM

Most "immigrants" to this country (and the figures are available) are, in fact, Americans, Australians and citizens of EC countries. The image of a whole army (or even a town full) of benefit seeking fraudulent asylum seekers is in fact a myth but one designed to build up resentment in the same way that the National Socialist Party did against German Jewry.
I genuinely feel disgust for this current campaign and shame for the people who propogate it

BTW My refugee ancestors DID settle in Crewe!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 11:33 AM

The daftest thing is that refugees who are waiting for their asylum status to be sorted out are not allowed to do any paid work, even when they have skills which are in real demand - and then you have people complaining about them receiving welfare benefits, or going out begging.

Labour has a pretty murky record on this. People have been sent home as bopgus asylkum seekers, only to be arrested and tortured and killed when they got there. However the Tories not only think that Labour is too soft on refugees, they have their eyes on pulling out of possible the European Convention on Human Rights and the 1951 United Nations Geneva convention on refugees. I suppose that might go down well with Bush, if he was moved to regret the loss of his mate Tony, in the event of an upset in the election.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: ard mhacha
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 03:34 PM

Look out for two big upsets in N Ireland David Trimble leader of the Ulster Unionists is forecast to lose his seat to DUP man David Simpson,and there is a possibility that SDLP leader Mark Durkan will have strong opposition from Mitchel McLaughlin Sinn Fein.

Gerry Adams Sinn Fein will enlarge their vote and may gain two extra seats, also Ian Paisley`s DUP will also strengthen their vote and gain seats from the Unionists.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Tory Boy
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 12:12 AM

The word from the doorsteps this election is NOT that people hate immigrants, they just want their country back.

The current polls showing labouring party ahead are at odds with what people are saying to canvassers and focus groups, though YOUGOV seems about right. This election is close, very close. That'll wipe the smirk from Blair's face.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Piers
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 03:51 AM

Anyone coming to my doorstep who asks if I want my country back will have 'I was born owning nothing but my ability to work, and the only country I have ever known is called 'Tresspassers will be prosecuted' quoted at them.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: fiddler
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 04:03 AM

I want my country back - hmm.. Tory Boy or BNP????

Such a big fuss about a small non issue

I remembered another verse - I think

No one ever mentions colour be it yellow black or red
Unless you buy their houses or ask their girls to wed
They don't have any predjudice that really would be bad
It's just that you'd be better off back home in Trinidad

Gald you (or your ancestors) did settel emma

Andy


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Crystal
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 07:03 AM

I'm not sure if anyone here listens to radio 4, but the party political broardcast by the BNP on last night featured someone complaining about white people being killed by black people and ended with a song, very much in the traditional style.
What I have feared has happened, the BNP have started hijacking our culture (one of the most inclusive and widly influanced around) foe their own rascist ends.

AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Can we stop it? Any ideas?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Emma B
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 07:39 AM

A couple of us heard that while on mudchat - it was really quite sickening.....
I'm hoping that this Saturday in a celebration of everything that is GOOD in the English culture we will continue to reclaim "ownership" from these nasty neo-nazis
Get out there and dance, sing and play for St George (who was certainly not an Englishman!)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Piers
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 07:41 AM

I'm sure I read a report somewhere, a few years ago, of the BNP's fuhrer, Nick Griffin, singing some folk music at one of their hate rallies.

I could only pull up this on t'internet: 'THE Bradford branch of the British National Party held its first meeting of 2005 on a very wet and windy Saturday January 9th . . . Later the audience were entertained by a set of traditional Irish folk music and revamped popular songs by a local band. ' VOICE OF FREEDOM - FEBRUARY 2005.

No doubt all the while consuming a vast quantity of French lager before heading home via the Kebab shop - oh, the irony.

Alistair Hulett makes reference to the BNP here.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 08:06 AM

"Crystal" What do you mean "the BNP hijacking OUR culture". The people in BNP are British and it's OUR British culture. Don't be so stupid. I am in the BNP - it's my culture too and I LOVE folk music. You'll find a lot in the BNP do, along with our beautiful classical music. (And you'll find many 'folkies' who agree with us too)

Folk music is part of our heritage and identity - that which we are trying to save. In this so-called 'multi-racial' country White children are not taught about their English musical heritage. They are not taught about their roots but have rap/black music etc forced onto them on Kids TV.

And why is it so wrong for the BNP to highlight White people being killed in racist murders? Why on earth is that "sickening"? Do we not count?
You really believe all the rubbish about us being 'Neo-Nazis'. Look at our site www.bnp.org.uk
"Emma B" take a look - you tell me what is so 'nazi-ish' about that. Many BNP members have grandparents who fought against the Nazis.

You lot have not a clue what's happening outside this forum for example in Oldham. I challenge YOU to walk through there any time of the day and get out without being attacked by asians.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: fiddler
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 08:24 AM

The BNP always sound convincing until you get behind the veneer and by then you've lost the thread of a rational discussion.

Fortunately at national level they are a bit of a lone voice but locally are a much more sinister and dangerous force!

This thread being about the election anyone looked at the family of the leader of the Conservatives - it reads like hes got there despite all this incredible bad luck - Is it his intention to bring this bad luck doen on teh rest of us as revenge for his ancestors getting in as immigrants - legal or otherwise - and would they have got in under his proposed rules.

And how far are the conservatives form Neo Nazis - they are the only party wanting to repeal human rights legislation!!!!!

As I like the legislation AND it exists are they infringing on my human rights by removing it?

Andy


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Emma B
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 09:25 AM

And you guest have no idea about "us lot". I have, in fact, attended a private BNP meeting in the past as a guest of a member so I don't need to see the "acceptable" public face of fascism!
I do know Oldham and have worked there.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 09:28 AM

Don't believe you for one minute. OK, where was this meeting? and what was it they said/did that was so fascist?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 11:29 AM

It seems to me that the problem with our multi racial society is the perception, among the white, British, community, that those who make the laws have forgotten to include them in the mix.

They feel, rightly or wrongly, that the law is slanted in favour of other ethnic groups, to their detriment.

It is this perception which tends to alienate, and whether true or not, it needs to be clearly addressed.

Unless our multiracial culture is demonstrably INCLUSIVE, it leaves the door open for racially motivated groups to foment unrest and intolerance, while ostensibly championing the cause of "The Native British Race".

Someone, I can't remember who, said "It's not what's true that counts, but what is perceived to be true". We need to ensure that what's perceived to be true IS true, and the BNP, among others, will lose its appeal.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Folky
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 11:42 AM

Well i thought the BNP Broadcast song about Frosty called Corporal Fox was excellant. I urge anyone interested in good folk to go to the bnp website www.bnp.org.uk and have a good listen.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Emma B
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 12:09 PM

Guest, I really don't care whether you believe me or not but I'm not afraid to put my name here or condemn the "politics" of hate. Attempts to redress the inequalities of the past whether in the fields of employment, education, access etc can be "sexed-up" to appear that any group whether ethnic, female, homosexual or disabled etc is being treated preferentially by those who wish to prey on the fears of the "disadvantaged" of any colour or creed
Divide and rule?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Patriotic
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 12:12 PM

Excellent! and the folk-music too, just sorry I didn't see it on TV.
I might for the first time in my life actually vote BNP. I have always voted Labour because of my working-class roots, but the BNP says probably 90% of what I think. Pleasantly surprised


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Tory Boy
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 12:13 PM

Be not afraid, the Conservatives have effectively blunted the BNP, this election.
Same goes for the UKIP.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 12:15 PM

The Tories are hypocrites and nancy-boys. Wake up Tory Boy - you are being conned. Do you live near non? or do you live in the nice White middle-class suburbs?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Piers
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 12:52 PM

I very much doubt racism can be wiped out be any amount of persuasion or campaigning solely against it. Society isn't fair in any way (the richest 1 percent own nearly four times as much wealth as the poorest 50 percent added together) and many people are looking for someone to blame, mistakenly they see people from overseas as draining limited resources and increasing competition for jobs. These flames are fanned, or even started, by the ruling/owning classes, who are seeking to ride to power on the back of it (e.g. BNP) as well diverting attention from their dominance over resources being the cause of poverty. For example, it is well documented that the upper echelons of the Ku Klux Klan comprised of plantation owners who feared the combination of black and white workers after the American civil war - divide and rule.

It isn't necessarily division on strictly racial grounds (as if the human race could ever be strictly divided into races) it is usually on grounds of nationality the rich divide workers and so patriotism and nationalism are used to persuade the poor to help the rich expand or defend their resources.

To get rid of the BNP and other racists, we will have to get rid of capitalism. Which is why I will be showing my positive preference for a world of common ownership of all resources, democratic control of the community by everyone, production purely to meet people's needs and free and equal access to all goods and services by writing 'socialism' across my ballot paper, as there is no socialist candidate in my parish.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 05:57 PM

Can we stand another two weeks of this garbage??
The entertainment value of the "Three stooges" is beginning to fade.

The most amazing thing to me ,was Robin Cook on Question time defending a Prime minister whom he had accused of misleading the country, and exhorting us to vote for a party which had supported an illegal war.
A stance which had caused Cook to resign from the cabinet.

Are you all mad!!    Ake


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 05:58 PM

Only problem with agreeing with 90% of what the BNP say is the remaining 10%.... At the moment I'm seriously considering voting for Your Party. They only seem to be contesting 3 seats - Holburn, Banbury and Southport. The name is so silly it appeals to me. At the moment, the Tories won't stop sending me mail (which I return with rude comments), the Lib Dems won't stop dropping things through my letterbox (I don't return these as it would cost me time and/or money, so they get recycled) and I've had one small leaflet from the UKIP. Your Party seem to be leaving me alone at least....


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Piers
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 04:04 AM

Your Party are quite an interesting bunch.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: *Laura*
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 07:35 AM

Lib Dems!
Come on!
If we all work really REALLY hard and put lots of nice Lib Dem crosses on the papers I won't have to pay for Uni next year!!!

xLx


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Chuffin right.
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 11:07 AM

Laura
Paying "for Uni" is a good thing.
When you pay your money, you will not put up with crap Lecturers recycling their dreary old stuff year after year.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,Tory Boy
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 11:12 AM

GUEST 22 Apr:

Sorry I'm neither hypocrite nor nancy-boy.

Also, I do not understand the "non" you mention in your question.

Also also, my area is what labouring party would call multi-cultural.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: DougR
Date: 06 May 05 - 04:07 PM

Good on, you Brits! You re-elected Tony Blair.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: mandoleer
Date: 06 May 05 - 06:00 PM

A hell of a lot of us didn't. Ah well, at least my candidate came 5th out of 6, and the independent in Wyre Forest standing for something to do with the local hospital got back in.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 05 - 06:32 PM

Yes Doug, that's because the alternative was worse! But he's taken a hell of a kicking for the war.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: robomatic
Date: 06 May 05 - 06:44 PM

So how about Northern Ireland? Represented here in the States as a vote against stability/ reconciliation/ further peaceful integration.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: GUEST,xerxes
Date: 07 May 05 - 01:12 AM

Yes New Labour got a battering because of the war. Perhaps as it should be every time our country goes to war. Maybe we need to remind those who govern us that war is not just something we can be "persuaded" to support.

However, the war aside, what fasinated me was the constant vilification dished out to Tony Blair. I read the Daily Mail as my partner buys it and day after day they published the most vicious articles I've ever read. The personal attacks in the Dail Mail co-incided with Michael Howard's bitter personal attacks and Howard's constant repeated references to Blair's "lying".
I notice that several top Conservatives were against this "lying" strategy because it was wrong, it played against Howard and it introduced a type of yob politics and disrespect hitherto unknown in this country.
We can only hope that the new Conservative leadership never again employs Lynton Crosby and that the Daily Mail immolates itself in a fury of its own self-righteous propaganda.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 May 05 - 05:10 AM

We Brits did not re-elect TB, Doug.

Thanks to our ridiculous electoral system, one third of us put him back in power, and that only happened because we had no realistic alternative.

It was a bit like being asked to choose between Hitler, Attila the Hun, and Napolean. Napolean wins because he is slightly less hateful, but we don't feel satisfied (two thirds of us, that is).

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 May 05 - 05:15 AM

OOPS!

Before a host of rebuttals pour in, I should point out that the last sentence was intended purely as an analogy. I did not intend any of the characters mentioned to represent any of the party leaders. I am well aware that our Libdems would not fit into those categories.

DT


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 May 05 - 09:46 AM

Robomatic, It won`t make the slightest difference, at the moment the elected representitives are all locked out of any form of government, the Brits are the masters and they dictate all form of law in the wee six.
If you care to look up this Thread you will find my posting on the 21st of April on the outcome of the voting in the north of Ireland, was fairly accurate, well no points for that, I live here.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 May 05 - 12:41 PM

There's nothing we would like better than for our boys to come home, but they can't until you all stop fighting (physically or verbally). The ball is in your court.

DT


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 May 05 - 01:34 PM

Ah well, that's over. And it strikes me that it all seems to have been a lot better tempered than the business they had over in the States last year, at least on the evidence of the Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 07 May 05 - 03:13 PM

Well, keeping everything on paper makes it so much easier to keep track of. And crosses in the box change less than hanging chads...

Bunnahabhain


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Elections
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 May 05 - 06:46 PM

100


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