BS: I blame the Romans...

Subject: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 11:13 PM

Veni, Vidi, Effodia

I came, I saw , I dug.

So here's another the Romans did for us, they gave us the rabbit.

Watership Down (Aquanavis Tumulos) and Bright Eyes (Lucidus Oculus) will never be the same. Can Richard Adams write q pre-quel with gladiatorial bunnies?

Romans introduced the rabbit
By David Sapsted
(Filed: 14/04/2005)

Years of division among academics over whether the Romans or the Normans introduced rabbits into Britain appears to have been resolved.

An archaeological dig in Norfolk has uncovered the remains of a 2,000-year-old rabbit - by far the oldest of its kind found on these shores and regarded as final proof that the creatures are now on the list of what the Romans ever did for us.

Many believed that the Normans introduced rabbits for their meat and fur.

However, others have always insisted that the creatures were brought in by the Romans, citing Marcus Terrentius Varro (116-27BC) who wrote that the legions brought rabbits from Spain, where they were reared in walled enclosures and then served up as a gourmet dish.

The remains were found at Lynford, near Thetford.

Jayne Bown, the manager of the Norfolk Archaeological Unit, which is conducting the dig, said yesterday: "We can date the rabbit to the first or second century AD from the pottery fragments found beside it. Some of these fragments included domestic pots which could have been used for cooking.

"We could tell the bones had been butchered."

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Peace
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 11:21 PM

The rabbit died?

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: LadyJean
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 11:25 PM

Leading one to wonder when the first pair hopped out of their enclosure, and decided even English weather was better than winding up as haasenpfeffer.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Amos
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 11:57 PM

Hare raising, it is!

A

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Peace
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 12:08 AM

" . . . domestic pots which could have been used for cooking."

Used to use it in brownies and cakes.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 12:11 AM

The book might be called 'Gladiathare' with a a film to follow with Warren Beatty?

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Peace
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 01:28 AM

Bunny and Hide?

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Peace
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 01:53 AM

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. When in Poland, do as the Polaroids do.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 02:46 AM

When in Hema..................

When on Portland - don't mention the 'R' word.

http://www.weymouth.gov.uk/main.asp?svid=7&svaid=294&svapid=1356

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 04:15 AM

The Romans also introduced pigeons to England, and, through their wearing of the toga, introduced rampant transvestism in Scottish men, who copied the habit and called it a 'kilt.'

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 04:51 AM

I like the word ' Neasden '

eric

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 08:25 AM

Yeah, but have the Romans ever done for us?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 08:32 AM

or even WHAT have the Romans...

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 09:01 AM

Apparently those old Romans didn't do much for Idaho. Danged few Roman ruins here, except for old Vito. He's only 23, but that dude is RUINED! Mostly due to his ex-former-ex-girlfriend, Lucy -- she caught him with Philomena the other night and pretty much wrecked him. Didn't do anything to enhance Philomena's looks, either. Vito was born in Rome, Georgia, and came out here to study sexually transmitted diseases first hand.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 09:30 AM

...for the Roman Catholic church.
...for making stone circles rarer.
...for professional lawyers and politicians.
et cetera ad infinitium

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 09:41 AM

Yeah, but what did they ever do for us..?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 10:02 AM

Well, there was the roads, and the baths...

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: GUEST,Anonymous
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 10:21 AM

Roman candles?

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: GUEST,Arnie
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 10:30 AM

The Romans are also credited with bringing land snails to the UK (as food). Only the slugs are native. I was told years ago by my biology teacher that if you have snails with shells in the vicinity, then it's a sure sign that a Roman settlement was nearby, as snails only move slowly and are pretty much where the Romans left them 1700 yrs ago! Don't know if that still holds good but there is some sort of logic about it. Wouldn't fancy eating them myself, even with garlic, but they don't half make a meal out of my lettuces!! So thanks, Romans....

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: GUEST,Anonymous
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 10:48 AM

Fingers?

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 11:03 AM

OK, ok. Apart from the roads and baths, what have they ever done for us?

:D

(Only one got it up to now btw?)

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: GUEST,*Laura*
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 11:29 AM

Yeah!
Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health -

What have the Romans ever done for us?

bloody romans!

xLx

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: GUEST,Anonymous
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 11:37 AM

Religious persecution....and it still goes on today.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Wolfgang
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 12:16 PM

They built a wall so that the fierce Scots could never invade the benign Southland. But I've heard that hasn't prevented the invasion, but I forgot from which side of the wall the later invaders came.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 12:28 PM

central heating (but you stopped using it after they left)

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: GUEST,Anonymous
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 01:00 PM

Roman Polanski?

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 01:05 PM

I got this in an email.....don't know it it's true but it's a good story anyway.......................

Does the statement, "We've always done it that way" ring any bells... ?
The US standard railroad gauge (distance between
the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an
exceedingly odd number.

Why was that gauge used?

Because that's the way they built them in England,
and English expatriates built the US Railroads.

Why did the English build them like that?

Because the first rail lines were built by the
same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and
that's the gauge they used.

Why did "they" use that gauge then?

Because the people who built the tramways used
the same jigs and tools that they used for building
wagons, which used that wheel spacing.

Okay! Why did the wagons have that particular
odd wheel spacing?

Well, if they tried to use any other spacing,
the wagon wheels would break on some of the old,
long distance roads in England, because that's
the spacing of the wheel ruts.

So who built those old rutted roads?

Imperial Rome built the first long distance
roads in Europe (and England) for their legions. The
roads have been used ever since.

And the ruts in the roads?

Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts,
which everyone else had to match for fear of
destroying their wagon wheels.
Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they
were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing.

The United States standard railroad gauge of 4
feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the original
specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot.
And bureaucracies live forever. So the next time you
are handed a specification and wonder what horse's
ass came up with it, you may be exactly right,
because the Imperial Roman war chariots were made
just wide enough to accommodate the back ends of two
war horses. Now the twist to the story...

When you see a Space Shuttle sitting on its
launch pad, there are two big booster rockets
attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These
are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are
made by Thiokol at their factory at Utah. The
engineers who designed the SRBs would have preferred
to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to
be shipped by train from the factory to the launch
site. The railroad line from the factory happens to
run through a tunnel in the mountains. The SRBs had
to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly
wider than the railroad track, and the railroad
track, as you now know, is about as wide as two
horses' behinds.

So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what
is arguably the world's most advanced transportation
system was determined over two thousand years ago by
the width of a horse's ass. ... and you thought
being a HORSE'S ASS wasn't important!

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans........
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 01:23 PM

People called the Romans, they go the house?

They gave us edible dormice (glis glis) as well..... a protected species now, although they were only introduced in 1902 as escapees from a private collection.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: GUEST,Allen
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 02:40 PM

What have the Romans ever done for us? HAUSSENPFFEFER!!

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: Peace
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 02:53 PM

They gave us a fiddler, an arch, a computer font--all kindsa stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 02:56 PM

Careful what you believe. Academics attribute events not to their occurance, but to the written recording thereof.

By the way Wolfgang, the Scots were still in Ireland when the Romans occupied Great Britain. The folks across the wall were the Picts. The foundation myths of Scotland state that the Scottish Gaels originated from the Dal Riata tribe in Antrim, north-east Ireland. Around AD 500, the wall was constructed by Roman emperor Hadrianus between AD 120 and 128.

Romans gave us the inspiration for the movie 'The Life of Brian' and the Python song "Always look on the bright side of life."

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: GUEST,Allen
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 03:25 PM

What fish do you have that is not jugged?
Rabbit

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: GUEST,*Laura*
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 05:45 PM

That is a VERY good point -
no Romans - no Life of Brian! da da daaa!

xLx

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 06:42 PM

I've got snails in my garden but no signs of a Roman settlement, just builders rubbish.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 07:50 PM

That's what most archeology is, rubbish. The stuff people leave behind them. You don't find many whole roman pots, you find the ones people used until they broke.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 08:31 PM

I think the word 'blame' is a bit harsh... rabbits are quite nice...

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: Peace
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 08:33 PM

Cooked with prunes, onions, chervil, basil, pepper, white wine (no more than a three), carrots and potatoes, they are very, very nice.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 08:42 PM

Yes....i've cooked them like that, except without the prunes and chervil....or the basil....or the wine...it was very nice anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: GUEST,Shanghaiceltic
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 12:34 AM

Once we were on a long submarine patrol (late 1970's) and we found that our chefs had loaded rabbit instead of chicken!

So we were tempted with Rabbit Maryland, Rabbit Fricasee, Curried Rabbit, Roasted Rabbit with stuffing (no don't ask who stuffed the rabbit), Rabbit Stew, on and on went the alternative rabbit recipes, and more jaded our tastes became.

One of the chefs put up a sign over the servery.

'Rabbit in the hole; As served on Watership Down'

'You've read the book, you've seen the film, you have the T-Shirt, now eat the cast!'

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 07:17 AM

Can the title of this B/S thread be changed back to its original one?

I have not read the report of the dig - only the inference that as 'bunny' remains were found with evidence that could date it. This find does not mean or prove that the Romans introduced - (what Portlanders here refer to as 'underground mutton' - into the wild.

Although this most probably was the case - all a single find like this proves is that this particular 'Long Ears' left some of their bones in Roman Briton. This 'Wilfred' may have been brought over and kept as a pet.

Imigration controls were not then the same as they are now - but I am sure that the Romans would have given us Customs Officers.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 09:41 AM

Does the title matter?

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 10:42 AM

The title may or may not matter to the originator who carefully chose it.

The title does appear to matter a lot - to whatever unknown person decided to change it. Even though this was a B/S thread.

It matters to me - as the word added to the thread title is considered locally to be unlucky but mostly if the orginator was not first shown the respect of being consulted before the change was imposed upon their contribution. A contribution (and title) invited by the site owner Max to our public discussion forum.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: Peace
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 10:52 AM

"A contribution (and title) invited by the site owner Max to our public discussion forum."

No, no. The above should read: "A contribution (and title) invited by the site owner Max to Max's public discussion forum." After a time, ownership is assumed. However, last I knew, Max owned the site and he is gracious enough to let us use it.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: JennyO
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 11:56 AM

O gawd, here we go again...

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: GUEST,Xanadu
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 12:30 PM

Why don't you just start another thread to whine about Big-Brotherlike oppression (again).

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 12:58 PM

Censorship on Mudcat

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: GUEST,Xanadu
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 01:16 PM

Yeah, I ment an additional one, or better yet, keep it in that thread.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 05:12 PM

Susu's Hubby, that "The Width of Roman Roads" thing is highly entertaining, but false. Thoroughly discredited.

I do recognize that you didn't swear to it.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:31 AM

If we blame the Romans for rabbits, do we then blame the Romaines for lettuce?

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans... (for rabbits)
From: freda underhill
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 08:29 AM

when in ancient Rome..

As far as public facilities were concerned, urinal pots and public toilets served the public need. Fullers (the Roman version of a not-so-dry cleaner) would empty the urinal pots and use the ammonia-rich urine for laundering and bleaching togas and tunics! In many Roman cities there were public toilets. These rectangular shaped rooms (some seating up to 100 people) contained rows of long stone benches each with a row of keyhole-shaped openings cut into it. Water running down drains underneath the benches would flush waste away into the sewers. Sponge-sticks were used instead of toilet paper!

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans...
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 07:59 AM

"We could tell the bones had been butchered."

This presumably from 'cut marks' on the bones.

So OK it may be unlikely that our Roman solder would have butchered and eaten his pet - but not impossible (if they were hungry enough. But it does not prove that The Romans introduced 'The Hairy Ones' into the wild - just that this one may have come with them.

This one may have been part of a take-away for the boat crossing and ordered from a fast-food outlet on the European Continent. Called possibly Zuebrugge Fried R....? I am sure the Romans are to blame for junk food. I blame that General Saundersus..............

I wonder if the Portland respect and fear of 'Long Ears' does not come from far earlier times and relate to The Hare?

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans...
From: kendall
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 08:16 AM

I read somewhere that the reason the Romans built Hadrian's wall was to prevent major raids by the Scots. In order to steal, say, cattle or sheep they had to go through a gate in the wall, and of course, the gates were manned.There is also the theory that Hadrian realized that the empire was stretched too thin and decided to make a border.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 09:17 AM

Now you know where the expression 'fuller ****' comes from...

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans...
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 10:41 AM

We used to keep rabbits for the pot.... in hutches in the back garden. We had several at one point. One year the doe only produced one kit and died a few weeks later. We kept the kit to rear by hand and got so attached to him, we couldn't eat him.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans...
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 03:18 PM

My father-in-law had a great money making idea in rearing 'underground mutton' on a large scale - for food. The problem was that he was too soft to actually kill any of them. And in the end he had hundreds of them to find homes for.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans...
From: Peace
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 03:27 PM

The NYPD, The FBI, and the CIA are all trying to prove that
they are the best at apprehending criminals. The President
decides to give them a test. He releases a rabbit into a
forest and each of them has to catch it.

The CIA goes in. They place animal informants throughout the
forest. They question all plant and mineral witnesses. After
three months of extensive investigations they conclude that
rabbits do not exist.

The FBI goes in. After two weeks with no leads they burn the
forest, killing everything in it, including the rabbit, and
they make no apologies. The rabbit had it coming.

The NYPD goes in. They come out two hours later with a badly
beaten bear. The bear is yelling, "Okay! Okay! I'm a
rabbit! I'm a rabbit!"

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans...
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 02:05 AM

Now everyone knows that all you have to do is hide in a bush (with a big stone in each hand) and make a noise like a lettice...........

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 05:47 AM

Oh lettuce believe George could catch a rabbit, Shambles....

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans...
From: mouldy
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 09:11 AM

One remark, made with regard to the bunny remains on Radio 2 this morning,and also in my newspaper - rabbits are quite good swimmers and the channel ain't all that wide!

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the Romans...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 09:20 AM

And many years ago the sea was much lower...