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BS: Bad things Canada has done.

Charmion 08 Jun 21 - 09:58 AM
Vincent Jones 08 Jun 21 - 07:58 AM
meself 07 Jun 21 - 08:17 PM
Charmion 07 Jun 21 - 06:05 PM
Jack Campin 07 Jun 21 - 11:46 AM
Charmion 07 Jun 21 - 11:08 AM
Mrrzy 07 Jun 21 - 10:12 AM
mg 06 Jun 21 - 04:40 PM
Charmion 06 Jun 21 - 09:54 AM
Mrrzy 06 Jun 21 - 08:56 AM
keberoxu 05 Jun 21 - 01:58 PM
meself 04 Jun 21 - 12:56 PM
Stilly River Sage 04 Jun 21 - 12:26 PM
Allan Conn 04 Jun 21 - 11:08 AM
Jeri 03 Jun 21 - 09:42 PM
keberoxu 03 Jun 21 - 04:29 PM
Jeri 03 Jun 21 - 11:51 AM
Charmion 03 Jun 21 - 09:59 AM
Jack Campin 03 Jun 21 - 09:53 AM
Jack Campin 02 Jun 21 - 08:04 PM
Mrrzy 01 Jun 21 - 10:02 AM
gnu 31 May 21 - 07:48 PM
Stilly River Sage 31 May 21 - 07:26 PM
gnu 31 May 21 - 10:57 AM
Jeri 31 May 21 - 09:33 AM
gnu 31 May 21 - 08:44 AM
gnu 31 May 21 - 08:43 AM
gnu 31 May 21 - 08:15 AM
Rapparee 30 May 21 - 09:28 PM
Charmion 30 May 21 - 04:06 PM
Stilly River Sage 30 May 21 - 02:47 PM
Jack Campin 30 May 21 - 02:23 PM
Rapparee 30 May 21 - 01:41 PM
Charmion 30 May 21 - 12:02 PM
keberoxu 29 May 21 - 11:12 PM
Jack Campin 29 May 21 - 04:18 PM
Stilly River Sage 29 May 21 - 12:01 PM
Stilly River Sage 29 May 21 - 11:54 AM
Charmion 29 May 21 - 09:39 AM
keberoxu 28 May 21 - 10:53 PM
Jack Campin 28 May 21 - 01:29 PM
TS 24 May 05 - 02:31 PM
dianavan 20 May 05 - 06:57 PM
Peace 20 May 05 - 06:46 PM
gnu 20 May 05 - 05:04 PM
gnu 20 May 05 - 04:50 PM
Metchosin 20 May 05 - 04:24 PM
Rapparee 20 May 05 - 04:22 PM
GUEST 20 May 05 - 04:08 PM
dianavan 20 May 05 - 12:47 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Charmion
Date: 08 Jun 21 - 09:58 AM

Yeah. I've seen it, Vincent.

For too long, we Canadians have celebrated our Georgian and Victorian ancestors as essentially "good" people who did mostly "good" things so we could live our lovely lives in the here and now. Lord Cornwallis founded Halifax on the best harbour on the Atlantic coast; too bad for the Mi'qmaq people, but they weren't using it to its fullest advantage. Sir John A.'s tippling habit was funny and his fear and loathing of Indigenous people was normal for his time. Egerton Ryerson brought education to the masses; who cares that he built a school system with baked-in racism and class biases?

Rather less smugness would be nice in all quarters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Vincent Jones
Date: 08 Jun 21 - 07:58 AM

There is statue in Vancouver of a nineteenth century Yorkshire sailor and bar owner whom they celebrate, John 'Gassy Jack' Deighton. He married a Squamish woman and when she died married her 12-year-old neice.

That there has been a statue of him for over 50 years has offended many First Nation women who regard him as an exploitative paedophile.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: meself
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 08:17 PM

You know things are bad when you switch to the American news because the Canadian news is too damn depressing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Charmion
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 06:05 PM

Mass grave, Jack, or unmarked and unrecorded cemetery?

The implications are very, very different.

Mass graves in Canada are usually associated with waves of epidemic disease -- smallpox, cholera, typhus, diphtheria, typhoid. As well as lots and lots of death, major epidemics used to produce administrative collapse as overwhelmed survivors shovelled the dead underground as fast as possible before even worse things could happen. In Kingston, Ontario, where I went to uni, the remains of about 1,400 refugees from the Irish famine of the 1840s had to be moved from the shore of Lake Ontario before a new wing could be added to the Kingston General Hospital. The people buried there made it past Grosse Isle only to succumb a few weeks later and a few hundred miles upstream. Typical of such sites, the Kingston mass grave was not forgotten, but marked with a lovely great marble angel in 1894. Angel and interred remains were carefully lifted and moved together to a suburban cemetery.

But an unmarked and unrecorded cemetery, especially one as recent as the site at Kamloops, is quite another matter. It means that those who laid the bodies to rest could have done it properly and did not -- and it's hard not to think that neglect was deliberate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 11:46 AM

A CBC story today which I can't read on my phone appears to report they've found another mass grave of Native American children, this time in Manitoba.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Charmion
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 11:08 AM

Thanks for posting that link, mg.

An important point clarified in more recent coverage is that the Kamloops burial site is not a mass grave, as the first reports stated, but a crude graveyard. This video, made for tonight's "The National" news broadcast, does a good job of explaining both the large number of graves and the anonymity of the deceased.

The video is nearly ten minutes long, and the playback may balk -- it did on my computer, which doesn't normally choke on such files. Keep going to the end, however. No, it's not fun viewing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 10:12 AM

Aussie Aborigines, too. Good point.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: mg
Date: 06 Jun 21 - 04:40 PM

here is a very good video about the residential schools situation. i think we have just seen the tip of the iceberg.https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sinclair-kamloops-residential-remains-1.6049525

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sinclair-kamloops-residential-remains-1.6049525


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Charmion
Date: 06 Jun 21 - 09:54 AM

The Maori people have retained in memory the epic poem that recounts their migration from the Tahiti-Bora Bora area to the island group we Anglophones call New Zealand. Confirmed by astronomers (from the poem’s description of the stars they used to navigate), the date of their arrival has been set sometime in the mid- to late 14th century. Biologists have determined that the only flora on the islands at that time were ferns of a wide variety of types up to tree size, and fauna were likewise limited to insects, a few birds and reptiles, and a very small range of mammals. The species that were not capable of long trans-oceanic migrations were not found anywhere else, indicating that the islands had been isolated for thousands and thousands of years.

Until Captain Cook showed up, the Maori had the place to themselves. The European settlers and their descendants did their best to subjugate the Maori, but the culture and power-sharing arrangements of modern New Zealand indicate that they failed to stamp out Maori language, culture, spiritual practices, family structures or politics.

So I nominate the Maori as the group of humans that most closely meets Mrrzy’s criteria.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Jun 21 - 08:56 AM

The Navajo [Dinee] origin myth has them coming up out of the earth exactly where they are, note.
But I don't see how anywhere's people could be the original inhabitants, any more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Jun 21 - 01:58 PM

Meself, apropos languages and nations:

Here in the southwestern quadrant of the United States,
Navajo is actually one of those names which
an enemy/rival nation addressed to the group in question.
They call themselves "Diné", as well as their language.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: meself
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 12:56 PM

"what Jews have done" - Not entirely wrong, I suppose - but could we narrow it down at least to 'Israelis'? It's hardly fair to blame Jews world-wide for what's happening in Israel/Palestine.

**********

The language of the Dene people, in the northwest of Canada, is said to be very similar to that of the Navaho.

***************

AFAIK, the term 'Scotch-Irish' is peculiar to the south-eastern states of the US - I've certainly never heard it used in Canada to indicate those with Ulster roots, anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 12:26 PM

Navajo are thought (via linguistic evidence) to have moved south from the BC Pacific region down through the Western US to the area around the Hopi. The Choctaw have origin stories that have them moving (and carrying along huge heaps of bones of their ancestors) across the entire swath of the continent from somewhere Northwestern to the Mississippi delta area where they built mounds for those bones and assembled the bone picker stands to continue collecting bones. When you look at those stories you have a healthy mix of possible history mixed with some pretty interesting traditions.

Charmion, as we listen to the news from the Middle East these days, your poem (That those to whom evil is done / Do evil in return) describes precisely what Jews have done to Palestinians. Created ghettos and don't seem to see the parallel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Allan Conn
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 11:08 AM

"industrialisation of the Borders region" Not really much industrialisation here in the Borders. There were the mill towns right enough but they are very small and rather than causing an outflow of refugees etc they would have helped keep a population here. Where there is work there is folk. Berwickshire had one of the biggest drops in population of all the Scottish counties and there is hardly any industrialisation there. I think a lot of people left here really pre-industrialisation. Most folks who went to Ulster from Scotland left from south-west Scotland but many left from the Borders too - and also the English side. From Ulster many of the folks we call Ulster Scots later crossed the Atlantic where they are called the Scotch-Irish. The plantation of Ulster started in the early 1600s but according to Tom Devine far more left in the 1690s. So pre-union and pre significant industrialisation in the Borders. The 1690s in Scotland are called "the ill years" because of a series of bad harvests and famine conditions. So folk looking for a better life earlier on in th 1600s, along with a minority who were forcibly removed because of their continuing reiving behaviour, but later on in the 1600s folk leaving often because of pretty dire conditions at home.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Jun 21 - 09:42 PM

Thanks Keb. I looked on Wikipedia, and it does seem like they didn't displace any other tribes. There are probably others, or they won the land from other tribes, but white people's history likely won't know. Maybe it doesn't matter.

People of all nations can do bad things. Governments are way worse than individuals. People in groups...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Jun 21 - 04:29 PM

Not in Canada, Jeri, which I don't know well anyhow.

But there are the Hopi in northeastern Arizona.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Jun 21 - 11:51 AM

No, Gnu, it wasn't you.

Silly question: does anyone know of a place where the people who live there are the first ones to have lived there?

I suppose maybe before people started crossing the land bridge.

Personal observation/opinion: we suck as a species. Hopefully, we will learn that love and empathy are really important. We kill people and, take their land, destroy their culture, gain status and wealth, and then what?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Charmion
Date: 03 Jun 21 - 09:59 AM

Jack, when you read Canadian history you soon come to realize that the first major waves of European settlers were largely made up of refugees and displaced people.

French from the Wars of Religion, the 30 Years' War and the dynastic struggles that followed. Scots from the British version of the Wars of Religion, the Jacobite rebellions, the Highland Clearances, and the industrialization of the border region. Irish from generations of famine, poverty and imperial exploitation. "Loyalists" from the American Revolution.

And the minute they got here, they scrambled to the top of whatever hierarchy was available to them and promptly started doing unto others what had been done to them.

"I and the public know / What all schoolchildren learn: / That those to whom evil is done / Do evil in return." I think that's Auden, who had his faults but was good with a bon mot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Jun 21 - 09:53 AM

Lawsuit over cultural genocide

Good luck to them. Not that the Canadian court has any legitimacy whatever. Like the American one it's nothing but an honour tribunal of a criminal gang.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Jun 21 - 08:04 PM

Compulsory Irish dancing as a tool of cultural genocide?...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamloops_Indian_Residential_School

I looked that up because on trying to find the school on Google Maps I noticed that most of the streets in Kamloops were named after Highland Scots. And it turned out that most of the uberkommandants were Irish priests. It was an all-Celtic atrocity for its entire existence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Jun 21 - 10:02 AM

This is totally in the US media, that is how I found out about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: gnu
Date: 31 May 21 - 07:48 PM

SRS, THANKS!... WHEW! I am a cranky and forgetful old man so I wasn't sure. Glad I asked Jeri.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 May 21 - 07:26 PM

It wasn't directed at you, gnu.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: gnu
Date: 31 May 21 - 10:57 AM

Jeri, re "Regarding the complaining about what people chose to post, stop, please.", please refresh my memory - with what do you take offense?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Jeri
Date: 31 May 21 - 09:33 AM

Gnu, no, but you can post a link to it.

Regarding the complaining about what people chose to post, stop, please. Anybody can post here, and we can have an assortment of links.

For what it's worth, this doesn't seem to have even made the news here in the US - at least not yet, and not where I am. Posting comments and people's experiences is fine - IF we know what they're talking about. I think it's covered, now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: gnu
Date: 31 May 21 - 08:44 AM

Is there a way I can post an image from my 'Picture' files?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: gnu
Date: 31 May 21 - 08:43 AM

Didn't read the thread... maybe later, time permitting. I have a list as long as your arm, but, the worst, for me, was when Pierre Trudeau led the charge to change the Bank Of Canada Act of 1934 to rewrite it as the Bank Of Canada Act of 1974. Canada has gone downhill ever since. When he famously brought in "a bunch of men with guns" in La Belle Province, he was my hero... that guy didn't fuck around... he didn't take no shit! But, he used a gun on Canada's financial policy... killed it... dead as a knit. Hero > vile villain. Then, our PMs got worse. Now, his son, Just-In, is worthless, and worse. Aggggggggghhhhhhh!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: gnu
Date: 31 May 21 - 08:15 AM

Be a rough job splittin' that, even after frost, eh?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/tree-cedar-truck-viral-social-media-1.6042822


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 May 21 - 09:28 PM

All of which is why I'm not a twit on twitter or a red on reddit or a tik on tiktok. I am on Facebook and LinkedIn and joined when I was a poor working stiff who felt they might be useful -- and I take anything in both with a massive amount of salt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Charmion
Date: 30 May 21 - 04:06 PM

Jack, memoirs are not journalism either.

Journalists produce opinion essays and accounts of events that are carefully constructed in compliance with the conventions of their profession and the requirements of their publishers. The “first-hand” account — if it is, indeed, what you say it is (I would not believe that from a Reddit posting) — should be considered a memoir.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 May 21 - 02:47 PM

Nope. But there is a lot of crap to have to wade through to find a few worthwhile reads in those reddit threads. Tu quoque is a standard response in this kind of topic. Ollaimh has been kicked out or he'd be in here smearing obscenities around.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 May 21 - 02:23 PM

Whataboutery is invariably a moronic response. And it's just obscene for this.

That Reddit thread includes a first-hand account by a 93-year-old man who had never felt able to tell his story before. You don't fucking DARE say he has to shut up because he's not a real journalist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 May 21 - 01:41 PM

Don't feel superior because you're British. ALL nations have something to be ashamed -- or should be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Charmion
Date: 30 May 21 - 12:02 PM

Jack, with all due respect for your sympathy, even justified angry ranting is not journalism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 May 21 - 11:12 PM

There is now an official press release from this
First Nation community whose name has been
anglicized to "Kamloops" in British Columbia.

real name: Tk'emlúps te Secwépeme

The spokesperson in this press release references
a grant, titled Pathways to Healing,
which financed the use of ground penetrating radar.
The land and grounds still have areas that have yet to be examined.

Kamloops Indian Band, Office of the Chief


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 May 21 - 04:18 PM

I linked to the Reddit thread deliberately - I could have just linked to a news article, but with 5.6K comments in the thread, many from people with first hand experience, the torrent of anger and tears goes far beyond what any paper would publish. It's citizen journalism at its very greatest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 May 21 - 12:01 PM

‘Horrible History’: Mass Grave of Indigenous Children Reported in Canada New York Times


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 May 21 - 11:54 AM

The link to a Reddit post isn't particularly helpful. It's like going straight to the remarks under a news story and trying to figure out what it is really about from those alone. It simply doesn't work.

'Unthinkable' discovery in Canada as remains of 215 children found buried near residential school

Unfortunately, this was the case around many of the Indian Schools in the US, and I've heard stories of it being even worse in First Nations schools in Canada. The Catholic church was quite often the culprit running the "schools."


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Charmion
Date: 29 May 21 - 09:39 AM

The recently uncovered mass grave at Kamloops is yet more evidence of the original sin that lies at the heart of Canada’s settler tradition.

I like to think we’re better than our ancestors, but I suspect we’re just different.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 May 21 - 10:53 PM

Jack Campin, years ago,
when dr. Elisabeth Kuebler-Ross was still well enough to travel
(before she died she was disabled by strokes),
she and her staff would travel up to Kamloops at regular intervals.
This was in order to minister to the survivors in the area,
to use the externalization method she had
to help them deal with post-traumatic issues.
Her method was controversial and
there may be those here who dislike talk of it.

I just mention it, because I had never heard of Kamloops
before coming into contact with
Elisabeth Kuebler-Ross's organization
and hearing how they were working with the survivors
and with the relatives of those who went missing.

I've never forgotten Kamloops from that day to this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 May 21 - 01:29 PM

A death camp for little children


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: TS
Date: 24 May 05 - 02:31 PM

Well..I'm impressed that AJ's comments actually sparked additional comments. Being a BILINGUAL NBer I have learned to ignore certain "Vive la Quebec libre" ideas.

Slainte!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: dianavan
Date: 20 May 05 - 06:57 PM

I'll fourth it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Peace
Date: 20 May 05 - 06:46 PM

I'll third it. Beautiful post.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: gnu
Date: 20 May 05 - 05:04 PM

Metchosin... I'll second that. Well said GUEST.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: gnu
Date: 20 May 05 - 04:50 PM

dianavan, re your post about the budget, Canucks also, I hope, remember that the Progressive Conservative Party was decimated to three MP's after Mulroney... after the country was sold down the river... after twenty two cabinet ministers were indicted on criminal charges for fraud... after he sued the government for defamation of character and was awarded $1M because the RCMP disclosed info prior to charging him in the Air Canada scandal, thereby precluding crucial evidence from being allowed in court and negating any possibility of conviction... after pissing off Quebec and, indeed, all of Canada on the issue of separation...

Now, we have to put up with the likes of Harper who just pissed off every true Canuck because his politics kept our political leaders from attending the VE celebrations... who stands up in front of the camera and accuses the Liberals of corruption? Pot/kettle? Who aligns with the Bloc?????? While the Bloc and the NDP are ALSO implicated as being involved in the "scandal". If the monies did actually get used to try to keep Quebec from separating, will any true Canuck be pissed? Will any true Canuck vote to bring Mulroney back? Oops, I meant Harper, of course. They might not even get three MP's this time around.

Belinda for PM!!!

Okay now, no more Tylenol 3's until after happy hour.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Metchosin
Date: 20 May 05 - 04:24 PM

well spoken Guest 20 May 05 - 04:08 PM, you brought a tear to my eye.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 May 05 - 04:22 PM

I, a citizen of the US, was in Montreal, having just returned from a great ski trip to Mont Tremblant. We awakened to a flat tire.

I changed the tire and we drove to a gas station to check the air in the spare. I asked the young man sitting in the repair bay, "Excuse me, but do you have a tire gauge?"

"I am just here from Paris and do not speak English good. Sorry."

I must admit to being ticked off, and responded, "Quelle domage. Je ne parle la Belle Langue" and left.

I would have asked in French if I could have remembered the word for "tire pressure gauge." As it was, I was quite annoyed by the bigotry shown. (And no, he was not "just from Paris" -- I'd heard him conversing in English just before I entered the repair bay.)

That said -- most, if not all, of my other "bad experiences" in Canada were caused by US citizens. When that happens my wife and myself try to hide under the table....


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 05 - 04:08 PM

Quebec. I remeber the referendum I remember how ticked I was at this french speaking province, whop has been bolstered up finacnailly for years, who take a give very little back, who sing the same sad song about independance and the country of Quebec.

But I also realized that Quebec is not a country and it never has been. Canada has never existed without Quebec in it, and so there is no Canada without Quebec in it.

So AJ here's a thought, if it isn't about language, or ethnicity, or any of those things, then what is it about?

Is it worth more than this-

In all of the world. In all of history. There has never been a country that has made itself out as divergent a population as this one, while still allowing the culture, the history and the tradition of those who make it up to remain as it does in Canada.

TO seperate shows the world that with all of the riches we possess that we cannot live together, under a single government in peace. We demonstrate that human beings of differnet backgrounds can not live together under a unified system of government.

When we stay together, when we work it out as single country we demonstrate to the world, to people everywhere that it can work. That differences in culture, that regionalism can be subsumed into the greater good.

We stand as a beacon that differences in background and language do not preclude membership in a mutual family.

To seperate is to give into the bases of instrincts, to give up on that quiet hope.

It is the action of a lesser country, of a lesser people than we are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bad things Canada has done.
From: dianavan
Date: 20 May 05 - 12:47 AM

From today's news: google Canadian budget -

"And, while justifiably shocked and disappointed, Canadians are not stupid. They know that civic virtue is not a genetic trait.

After all, Canadians have seen it all — whether it be crooked senior executives raping major corporations, errant priests victimizing the vulnerable, labour bosses criminalizing their unions or corrupt cops compromising law enforcement.

They know that bad apples and rogues are an unfortunate reality, even in normally respected quarters of civilized society.

That is why thoughtful voters have no intention of holding Liberals — or any political party for that matter — to a standard of universal virtue.

They know it is unfair to impugn the integrity of any party's leadership or condemn its entire membership based on the unauthorized and illegal acts of the few.

What Canadians want to know is that the system works, the guilty will be punished and the rules tightened up to reduce the chance of similar abuses happening again.

And, because most Canadians believe in fair play, they also want their politicians, including everyone placed under a cloud by the Gomery process, to be given the benefit of all of the facts before they are judged and sentenced.

For most Canadians, that is why an election now is unnecessary. Our system of government is, in fact, working just fine. Justice is slowly but surely, taking its proper course."

Canadians are just as bad as anyone else but at least they know how to play the game.


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Mudcat time: 20 June 11:55 AM EDT

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